MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Jaywoo-GTI on June 08, 2009, 02:27:09 pm

Title: Spark Plugs
Post by: Jaywoo-GTI on June 08, 2009, 02:27:09 pm
Looking to upgrade my plugs to iridium items, Either NGK or Denso as i have used them in the past with impressive results.

Does anyone have any other good upgrade/recommended plugs or even the part numbers for the plugs i should be looking for?

Also what manufacturer and part number are standard VW items so i can X-Ref them?

Jay
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: iainalpine on June 08, 2009, 02:56:03 pm
Have a look at these mate. There have been some real good things being posted about them. Also have a look on the site with the demo on how the flame front moves http://www.pulstar.com/ignitionvelocity.htm There is some real interesting stuff here. With these in place you could advance the timing quite a bit which would increase BHP and Torq.

Iain
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: bacillus on June 08, 2009, 04:26:35 pm
Are you stock or remapped?
If stock, stick with the oem plugs.
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: Jaywoo-GTI on June 08, 2009, 04:55:52 pm
What are OEM plugs?

Its stock at the min but is goin in within the next month for a remap so looking at gettin everthing i can first.
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: DanGB on June 08, 2009, 05:20:55 pm
The good upgrade plugs are NGK Iridium BKR7EIX. They are one heat range colder. The BKR6EIX are a direct replacemnt. These are highly recommened by alot of people. I use them myself on my stage 3 car.
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: WhiteGTI on June 08, 2009, 10:57:25 pm
Have a look at these mate. There have been some real good things being posted about them. Also have a look on the site with the demo on how the flame front moves http://www.pulstar.com/ignitionvelocity.htm There is some real interesting stuff here. With these in place you could advance the timing quite a bit which would increase BHP and Torq.

Iain

To those in the know: Would these be beneficial for my Stage 2 GTI ???
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: RedRobin on June 08, 2009, 11:10:53 pm
....

JKM, VWR, and others have all advised me that I don't need to change plug type on my Stage2 GTI. I change plugs every 20k miles but to the same oem ones.
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: Poppa Dom on June 08, 2009, 11:11:18 pm
Have a look at these mate. There have been some real good things being posted about them. Also have a look on the site with the demo on how the flame front moves http://www.pulstar.com/ignitionvelocity.htm There is some real interesting stuff here. With these in place you could advance the timing quite a bit which would increase BHP and Torq.

Iain

To those in the know: Would these be beneficial for my Stage 2 GTI ???
Quite an interesting read here Chris - http://chris.pirillo.com/spark-plugs-vs-pulse-plugs/ (http://chris.pirillo.com/spark-plugs-vs-pulse-plugs/)
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: RedRobin on June 08, 2009, 11:15:19 pm

 With these in place you could advance the timing quite a bit which would increase BHP and Torq.

Iain

....But you best know exactly what you are doing if you are going to do things like big timing advances. You may increase power but what else will be going on? Would you then, for example, need an aftermarket fuel pump?
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: RedRobin on June 08, 2009, 11:19:32 pm

Quite an interesting read here Chris - http://chris.pirillo.com/spark-plugs-vs-pulse-plugs/ (http://chris.pirillo.com/spark-plugs-vs-pulse-plugs/)


....I found it interesting but not convincing.
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: Poppa Dom on June 08, 2009, 11:24:31 pm

Quite an interesting read here Chris - http://chris.pirillo.com/spark-plugs-vs-pulse-plugs/ (http://chris.pirillo.com/spark-plugs-vs-pulse-plugs/)


....I found it interesting but not convincing.
Yes, I am definitely not convinced on this one. At the end of the day detonation is detonation, irrespective of the strength of the spark.
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: neg on June 09, 2009, 01:07:07 am
OEM (Stock) plugs are fine on stock and remapped cars - no real 'need' to upgrade them - just swap them more often than normal if remapped.

As for altering the timing, this maybe so but you need to do some data logging to make sure your not making the ECU pull the timing back too much - all about the CF values and keeping them low.
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: Jaywoo-GTI on June 09, 2009, 08:57:55 am
The good upgrade plugs are NGK Iridium BKR7EIX. They are one heat range colder. The BKR6EIX are a direct replacemnt. These are highly recommened by alot of people. I use them myself on my stage 3 car.

I have never really understood heat ranges, What does a colder plug mean?
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: bacillus on June 09, 2009, 09:55:41 am

I have never really understood heat ranges, What does a colder plug mean?

Have a read.   :smiley:
http://www.ngk.de/Spark_plugs.649.0.html
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: RedRobin on June 09, 2009, 11:10:42 am
....

I've forgotten, but aren't the oem plugs NGK?
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: bacillus on June 09, 2009, 03:03:10 pm
....

I've forgotten, but aren't the oem plugs NGK?
No they are rebranded Bosch...   :smiley:
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: RedRobin on June 09, 2009, 04:18:34 pm
....

Well, AFAIK the oem plugs are good enough for VWR's race cars, so that's good enough for me. I just change plugs every 20k miles.

Mind you, VWR do change their components as often as some of us change our underwear!
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: Jaywoo-GTI on June 11, 2009, 03:38:45 pm
Anyboby seen these, Are they as good as they claim?

http://www.potn.co.uk/p1642421.htm
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: neg on June 11, 2009, 07:39:47 pm
they are for use with only the AXX engine - which is the early version.

Why only this one I wonder... there was something about the AXX engine which made it the last of a specific type but I cant remember what it was now.
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: bacillus on June 11, 2009, 07:45:55 pm
they are for use with only the AXX engine - which is the early version.

Why only this one I wonder... there was something about the AXX engine which made it the last of a specific type but I cant remember what it was now.
Supposedly the last of the true FSI lean burn engines...
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: SteveP on June 11, 2009, 08:17:11 pm
Talking of Spark Plug I was told by a VW Dealer the recommended interval is now 60K for the BYD engine in the ED30 when I asked for the cost for the 40K service while getting Mrs PG car done today.  :surprised:

I won't be waiting that long, it really does seam VW are pushing the limits of the parts these days and I wonder if this is to help things like the cost of ownership comparisons ???
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: RedRobin on June 11, 2009, 11:00:10 pm
....

Steve, I've been advised by several tuners and others whose opinions I respect, that it's good practice to change plugs every 20k miles on a tuned engine. It's not expensive and a wise precaution to help everything run sweet.

:happy2:
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: Mark_GTIV on June 11, 2009, 11:00:43 pm
Talking of Spark Plug I was told by a VW Dealer the recommended interval is now 60K for the BYD engine in the ED30 when I asked for the cost for the 40K service while getting Mrs PG car done today.  :surprised:

I won't be waiting that long, it really does seam VW are pushing the limits of the parts these days and I wonder if this is to help things like the cost of ownership comparisons ???

I assume its so that lease car companies will favour VWs....
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: neg on June 12, 2009, 12:10:38 am
....

Steve, I've been advised by several tuners and others whose opinions I respect, that it's good practice to change plugs every 20k miles on a tuned engine. It's not expensive and a wise precaution to help everything run sweet.

:happy2:

I agree, I had an occasional missfire problem which was down to a dodgy plug after 20k so I would recommend the same - for the sake of what - £40
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: iainalpine on June 12, 2009, 07:36:54 am
Hi guys, the pulse plugs wouldnt cause damage as the knock sensor or i should say sensors should be in ultimate control of your timing. There seems to have been a lot written about these plugs and we have even been sent info out on them to allow us to add into ignition courses we run. Like a few of you i would like to try and see what they do as "proof is in the pudding".

Iain
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: SteveP on June 12, 2009, 07:38:42 am
....

Steve, I've been advised by several tuners and others whose opinions I respect, that it's good practice to change plugs every 20k miles on a tuned engine. It's not expensive and a wise precaution to help everything run sweet.

:happy2:

It's something I do already Robin  :happy2:
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: RedRobin on June 12, 2009, 11:18:46 am

Like a few of you i would like to try and see what they do as "proof is in the pudding".

Iain

.... :party: Yum yum! Pig's bum! :party:
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: pazz on June 12, 2009, 12:03:59 pm
You can tell if your running the wrong or right heat grade of plugs by how they are burning. Take them out and compare the non-gloss ceramic and spark tip to a spark plug colour guide.

(I have a guide on my home pc so will post it up tonight)

------> http://www.dansmc.com/Spark_Plugs/Spark_Plugs_catalog.html (http://www.dansmc.com/Spark_Plugs/Spark_Plugs_catalog.html) <------

There are also other symptoms to too hot or cold a plug. Too cold a plug can result result in bad start-ups and can result in mis-firing.

Too hot a plug can lead to detonation (det) or pre-ignition issues. (not a good thing)
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: pazz on June 12, 2009, 12:11:49 pm
Cheapest place to order the BKR7 NGK's is here: http://www.spark-plugs.co.uk/ (http://www.spark-plugs.co.uk/)

£6.77 inc VAT each.

Thats £27.08 a set + p&p.

I change mine every 12 months. I just order them from the website above and put them on the passenger seat in the car when it goes into VW.

Me being me, I also check to see if they've done the job!  :indifferent: :grin:
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on June 29, 2009, 06:10:17 pm
Have a look at these mate. There have been some real good things being posted about them. Also have a look on the site with the demo on how the flame front moves http://www.pulstar.com/ignitionvelocity.htm

Snake oils, and pure BS.  The spark only initiates the combustion process - the spark has jack schit to do with the speed of the flame front

There is some real interesting stuff here. With these in place you could advance the timing quite a bit which would increase BHP and Torq.

And burn holes in your pistons.  :sad:

Just stick with the OEM plugs, they are afterall good enough for the S3!
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on June 29, 2009, 06:26:09 pm
Talking of Spark Plug I was told by a VW Dealer the recommended interval is now 60K for the BYD engine in the ED30 when I asked for the cost for the 40K service while getting Mrs PG car done today.  :surprised:

I won't be waiting that long, it really does seam VW are pushing the limits of the parts these days and I wonder if this is to help things like the cost of ownership comparisons ???

60k miles has always been the replacement timescale for all the 2.0 TFSI engines.  And that is because just like most 'modern' engineered automotive things, they are specifically designed to last much longer than 'old skool' stuff.  Same with longlife engine oils, H7 halogen bulbs, etc.

And yes, longer intervals do help with cost of ownership, but then VAG are no different to say Ford, Vauxhall, BMW, Toyota, Honda or whoever.  Modern spark plugs really are vastly better than the Champion 7YC which you have to replace in your Suffolk Colt lawnmower every spring because the ba$tard wont start, and you end up snapping the starting pull cord in frustration!!!


However, all that said above, TTs learned advice, particularly on a modified car which is driven hard - is to basically reduce the intervals of routine consumables by either a third or a half - so plugs & air filter every 30k, oil & filter every 5k, BFC every year.  Obviously, if you can do those jobs yourself, if wont cost as much as if the garage has to do them.
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on June 29, 2009, 06:40:23 pm
....

Steve, I've been advised by several tuners and others whose opinions I respect, that it's good practice to change plugs every 20k miles on a tuned engine. It's not expensive and a wise precaution to help everything run sweet.

:happy2:

So when are these 'tuners' experiencing plug brakedown then?  Because I used to run voltage scopes on spark plugs on two stroke race engines, which are far, FAR more demanding on spark plugs than any four stroke engine, even a formula one engine - and even the then new technologies of copper cores didn't result in any premature failure of the plug.  And modern 'fine wire' plugs, especially iridium really can last, with some manufacturers quoting 120k miles between plug changes.  And dont forget ultra high performance motorcycle engines - many of these rev in excees of 14,000 rpm, and can go 40k miles between plug changes - with motorbike plugs generally being physically smaller than plugs in road cars.

So 20k plug changes on the 2.0 TFSI is complete overkill, and 100% un-necessary.  Even my recommendation for 30k miles is very much overkill!
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on June 29, 2009, 06:43:14 pm
....

Steve, I've been advised by several tuners and others whose opinions I respect, that it's good practice to change plugs every 20k miles on a tuned engine. It's not expensive and a wise precaution to help everything run sweet.

:happy2:

I agree, I had an occasional missfire problem which was down to a dodgy plug after 20k so I would recommend the same - for the sake of what - £40

What fault code was thrown?  And how do you know that it wasn't simply down to a 'dry' connection between the coil pack and the plug, or the coil pack and the loom?
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on June 29, 2009, 06:47:08 pm
Hi guys, the pulse plugs wouldnt cause damage as the knock sensor or i should say sensors should be in ultimate control of your timing. There seems to have been a lot written about these plugs and we have even been sent info out on them to allow us to add into ignition courses we run. Like a few of you i would like to try and see what they do as "proof is in the pudding".

Iain

But the tosh they are spewing out on their web site is complete bollox - the actual cause of the initial ignition of the air/fuel mixture has absolutely fcuk all to do with the propogation of the flame front.  You could ask every single formula one team, or MotoGP, or every single engineering Uni in the country, and not one of them would agree with the utter bollox regarding those pulse plugs.

But hey, its your money to burn, and your money which will help prop up the wank US economy!
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on June 29, 2009, 06:55:30 pm
You can tell if your running the wrong or right heat grade of plugs by how they are burning. Take them out and compare the non-gloss ceramic and spark tip to a spark plug colour guide.

(I have a guide on my home pc so will post it up tonight)

------> http://www.dansmc.com/Spark_Plugs/Spark_Plugs_catalog.html (http://www.dansmc.com/Spark_Plugs/Spark_Plugs_catalog.html) <------

There are also other symptoms to too hot or cold a plug. Too cold a plug can result result in bad start-ups and can result in mis-firing.

Too hot a plug can lead to detonation (det) or pre-ignition issues. (not a good thing)

Agreed, but don't you think that the millions of Euros VWAGs R&D have at their disposal, they have already decided on the correct heat range.  And as for engine tuning, if done properly, then the identical heat range plugs should still be used - maybe moving one grade different at most.

But basically, for anyone who forgets those pictures, a correct plug should have the insulator colour which matches the colour of a rich tea biscuit, with no visible deposits on any of the metalic areas, and no visible wear on the electrodes.  Simple really!
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on June 29, 2009, 06:57:02 pm
Cheapest place to order the BKR7 NGK's is here: http://www.spark-plugs.co.uk/ (http://www.spark-plugs.co.uk/)

£6.77 inc VAT each.

Thats £27.08 a set + p&p.

Genuine OEM Bosch ones are only £6.15 plus vat from the stealer!
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: zub-gti on July 31, 2009, 11:26:11 am
Cheapest place to order the BKR7 NGK's is here: http://www.spark-plugs.co.uk/ (http://www.spark-plugs.co.uk/)

£6.77 inc VAT each.

Thats £27.08 a set + p&p.

Genuine OEM Bosch ones are only £6.15 plus vat from the stealer!

WTF: I called the dealer up here in Aberdeen today and was quoted £9.58 + VAT for plugs for my BWA..
Anyway I have found 'what I am assuming to be' the same plug for £4.97 + VAT
Here - http://www.carsparkplugs.com/ViewPlugs.aspx?id=2266 (http://www.carsparkplugs.com/ViewPlugs.aspx?id=2266)
Hope the link works...

Can someone please confirm these are the correct plugs... Bosch code: FR7KPP332


Also did a search for the BKR7's - http://www.carsparkplugs.com/Search.aspx?q=bkr7 (http://www.carsparkplugs.com/Search.aspx?q=bkr7)

Thanks,

Z
Title: Re: Spark Plugs
Post by: Hurdy on August 02, 2009, 12:33:57 pm
Thought I'd add my twopenneth to the pulstar plug debate. I recently remember seeing a review on these in a magazine. After hunting through the back catalogue I found that the review was in June 2009 Redline magazine. The pulstars basically weren't worth it and lost power over NGK PFR6Q Laser Platinum plugs. On their way home after the test their TT failed and when they put in the NGK plugs everything was fine again. They also found that the pulstars were VERY sensitive to gap settings.

I'll be going for normal plugs with a colder rating very soon. Pulstars seem quite gimmicky and not worth the outlay to me!

 :happy2: