MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Sat Nav and Car Audio => Topic started by: Squeeguk on September 13, 2012, 10:42:32 am
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Hi guys
Thought I would post up my latest project on my Jetta. I decided to replace all the OEM speakers while still keeping the RNS510 and all the functionality and OEMness that goes with it. I didn't want any subwoofers or anything out of place on the vehicle, keeping the full use of the car as it was stock. My choices ended up as follows:
Hertz HSK 163 3 way components for the front
Hertz ESK 165 2 way components for rear fill.
Hertz HDP4 4 way amplifier 4 x 150W RMS
Audison Bit Ten D as a DSP unit.
The aim of the system was to get much better sound quality and reproduction as possible without physically altering the vehicle so that a swap back to OEM could be achieved no problem.
To start with, this is what arrived.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3823.jpg&hash=83c95fadba7f13d5f605fa2961a74e36271a1faa)
I started off running the power cables and speaker cables. I thought I had taken more pictures of that, but seems not.
Power cable goes in through the firewall here:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3835.jpg&hash=2c83977f7f59deea516f511d28edad37f13c9630)
Using this nifty tool:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3856.jpg&hash=63b49bf9f718c0177ddfc64de1079b9551971870)
And the power kit I used
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3836.jpg&hash=c1861eea218eb790d4998490f0ad6ceccca905a2)
The power cables were run down the passenger side of the car to the boot. Simples.
The speaker cables were a little trickier as I wanted to route them as per OEM which meant disassembling the doors and removing the skins.
Door panel removed:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3841.jpg&hash=3d4aa53c9cf9ea2e1d750d0d5cb314d2fe506683)
Door skin removed:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3843.jpg&hash=54f8dcf532f11821089a885b4d0df8c4653abf8a)
Then unclipping the rubber grommets:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3846.jpg&hash=c6daaf19676803a6125a2a2871f06f8a1f2fdb7b)
And pulling them out through the door to make life easier:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3849.jpg&hash=51627bb9dbdf6ebb4c2bd94118d446b4970c34c7)
2 holes need to be drilled through both connectors that meet at the front of the door on the body and the wires need pulling though:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3857.jpg&hash=c26f00140702413d65274d7016e892aac3882d7b)
Till you end up with this:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3850.jpg&hash=52ce6037d5c378d640e7b5062ed628ceea98099a)
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Next step was sorting the outer door panels out with some sound deadening, for this I used the Skinz system, same stable as Hertz and Audison.
This was all the sound deadening from the factory:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3844.jpg&hash=f01260993789b12d4f0e24903458db7f1f1ced48)
So I did this:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3845.jpg&hash=14c36835c7e7bb8b796b194a4730d8ebf0491fc7)
I know some people really go overboard with sound deadening, but the stuff weighs a ton, so thought I would just try the outer doors and see how it goes.
At this point I went onto the door card, preparing them for reinstallation. I mounted the crossovers in the foam on the rears and made some clearance in the foam for the front crossovers as those were fitted on the doors themselves.
Replaced the stock tweeters with the Hertz ones:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3862.jpg&hash=757d4ea9d73a2e988ffb88ec5114378145970e1e)
Rear Door card complete:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3889.jpg&hash=44ae8baa45b78034b2b21bc70153a5808e67b276)
I used Traxxas High Current connectors for the joins from door to door card.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3891.jpg&hash=328c84f1c1e8eb3dcfcc64a1937e1c82c6d63ce7)
The front door card, I needed to make some mdf spacers for the mids as the standard factory speakers were much larger than the 2.8" mids from Hertz.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3883.jpg&hash=06a802119fabdc6e288e883a4080429817fa9ece)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3884.jpg&hash=1a092fb61590750a90022a66ecd053c78ee85244)
These were then painted black and installed.
Moving onto the doors themselves. The fronts were straight forward, but the rears were a bit of a pain as there is a tube which is plastic welded onto the door card and interferes with the speaker. Not wanting to remove those, I bought some Autoleads adapters which I cut down to suit.
The Autoleads spacers prior to cutting down:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3871.jpg&hash=2a117bcc84d81042cd46ecf38f0637692199d30b)
and the offending tube they hit up against:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3873.jpg&hash=1f1696aac4105491f4397025270b5ea4eaeeb5bc)
The front door complete:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3893.jpg&hash=ce3f37f5166e864a025b39c556b0af9b96b9c9be)
Apologies again, but I thought I had taken loads more pictures than this.
Moving onto the front tweeters, the stock ones were removed and the new Hertz ones glued in place:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3860.jpg&hash=5532bcbb694a1cdbedd805111eb482dcb70a1ec8)
That was the doors done. Took a lot longer than I would have liked.
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Then it was onto finalising the wiring to the rear and making the housing for the amplifier and Bit Ten D unit.
Not wanting to cut the stock harness into my RNS510, I decided to make my own harness from there and run it to the rear to the Bit Ten, along with the Bit Ten controller cable and USB cable.
Tools and components ready to go:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3828.jpg&hash=1aa5ef7cfe11c6e5695c25aa9295c4714109ae0a)
The connector used replaces the stock brown connector in the quad lock connector, simple as removing the stock one and popping this one in it's place.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3830.jpg&hash=6fcd7053b3071cbf1505e61bc1140ab34bf72220)
The finished harness:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3861.jpg&hash=168b6fd1f5171f35d1a4a24ab7ede4dada9edc8b)
I will be making these to order in various lengths, pricing will be up in due course. All made using OEM components and OEM quality thinwall wiring.
Once all the cables and wiring had been run to the rear, it was time to start on the boot box. Started off measuring up and cutting the front cover.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3886.jpg&hash=3c2c39a58d5a969e292d08ac821f55f09ab277a0)
Then it was onto the innards:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3894.jpg&hash=1eadb25be8a1f3df7835a3cfb86dc8d1f76af53a)
I made the front cover removable so made a false front onto the box, prior to installation it looked like this:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3896.jpg&hash=9e93d4e40aee5485406d15fa2a9600affc368bcb)
Then it was time to install it in the boot, ensure all cabling was done correctly, connected as it should be and ended up looking like this:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3904.jpg&hash=0b8a11f777a649d9295f2f8501e45ca9b0a098f6)
I setup the Bit Ten and gave it a quick test. The system still needs loads of tuning, but out the box the difference is incredible. I have proper bass now and can actually hear all the various instruments, etc. I will be working on the tuning over the next week in between other jobs I have lined up. The only other thing to do is make a housing in the centre console for the Bit Ten controller and the USB plug. I will update the thread with pics of that once done.
Thanks for looking in.
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^^^^
WOW!!
I'm not at all into sound systems in my car (I'm a recording musician and never ever play music or radio while driving) but this How-to is outstanding. Really well presented and with great informative photos :notworthy:
Superb job too.
:congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats:
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Brings back horrible memories of my install... Wires everywhere.
Thats the Hertz system I've got now. Your MDF adapters look LOADS better than mine though lol... Whats the chances of you making up another set for me :)
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Thanks Robin. I spend loads of time in my car, and do really love my music, so definitely had to be done. I can now hear things in songs I've listened to for years in my car that I never knew existed, lol.
No probs Jedi. I can probably make some more, but not until the back end of next week. Starting the next job this afternoon. A complete re-install in a Vauxhall Astra Twintop, including a new re-designed boot install.
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Thanks Robin. I spend loads of time in my car, and do really love my music, so definitely had to be done. I can now hear things in songs I've listened to for years in my car that I never knew existed, lol.
No probs Jedi. I can probably make some more, but not until the back end of next week. Starting the next job this afternoon. A complete re-install in a Vauxhall Astra Twintop, including a new re-designed boot install.
Would be great thanks.
I'm also going to be looking at making some custom tweeter pods so I can get the tweets on axis as the HT25s sound a bit harsh off axis I find.
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Love the install. Do you have a pic from in the car, with the back seat down, so I can see how much it protrudes?
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where are you based again. Would be interesting to hear this compared to mine with the same hardware but without the bit ten.. I like the principal of an aftermarket DSP but in practice it wont work well if you still want to use the headunit / steering wheel volume controls.
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Love the install. Do you have a pic from in the car, with the back seat down, so I can see how much it protrudes?
Thanks and your wish is my command:
From inside the car looking back through the seat hole.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3907.jpg&hash=47910f75fdd8d90bcea302392c90dcc0b00f8252)
From the boot looking forward
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh147%2Fsqueeguk%2FJetta%2520Install%25202012%2FDSCF3908.jpg&hash=47c4196b09232386995e0a39afdca830d52f95ee)
You can see the split line for the boot carpet. It still works as before. I basically put the amp and Bit Ten in the side where nothing ever goes, so no space taken from the boot in real terms.
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where are you based again. Would be interesting to hear this compared to mine with the same hardware but without the bit ten.. I like the principal of an aftermarket DSP but in practice it wont work well if you still want to use the headunit / steering wheel volume controls.
Am based in Camberley, Surrey. Just give me a week to get it all tuned up in between other jobs, lol. I am getting my new Oscilloscope tomorrow hopefully to verify the settings. Biggest thing I am worried about is to find exactly where the RNS outputs start clipping. From there, everything else is a piece of cake. But need to get the source signal at an optimum point.
For anyone fitting an amplifier, always best to get someone to check the HU output with an o-scope any ways.
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where are you based again. Would be interesting to hear this compared to mine with the same hardware but without the bit ten.. I like the principal of an aftermarket DSP but in practice it wont work well if you still want to use the headunit / steering wheel volume controls.
Am based in Camberley, Surrey. Just give me a week to get it all tuned up in between other jobs, lol. I am getting my new Oscilloscope tomorrow hopefully to verify the settings. Biggest thing I am worried about is to find exactly where the RNS outputs start clipping. From there, everything else is a piece of cake. But need to get the source signal at an optimum point.
For anyone fitting an amplifier, always best to get someone to check the HU output with an o-scope any ways.
ah be interested in your findings as to when the vw HU starts adding adjusted EQ
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Jesus..............that's some pretty comprehensive installation! :congrats:
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Jesus..............that's some pretty comprehensive installation! :congrats:
Thanks mate. I do believe in the old school adage of, if you gonna do it, do it right or don't bother. My poor son is growing up with a complex of being called half job every now and again when I don't believe he has done the best he can.
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Great install you have done, nice tidy and clean.
It clould possibly be a good idea, for those with Jetta's with the HSK fronts and bit ten.
To perhaps have a baseline for your EQ and TA settings?
Could help many I'm sure.
With the Quadlock you built, I'm assuming you are using Low level out from the RNS510.
Any chance of PM'ing me the part numbers? Then I can order the parts over here in NZ.
Unless you want to pm price for it made?
Wonder if this Quadlock would work on rcd510/310?
Are you Going to add a sub into the system at all?
That's all for now I feel. Lol
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Thanks, yeah will post up my settings as soon as I get a chance to re set the system up from scratch with my oscope. Biggest thing is finding out exactly when the HU starts clipping.
I am using the high level speaker outs from the RNS, I did not have the VW amp installed in my car. I would like to try and see the differences when recoded via VCDS to run low outputs too. Lot's to play with and so little time.
I will send you a pm with regards the loom and I am sure it would work with the RCD 510 / 300 as the speaker outs are the same from memory.
Stage 2 will be another Hertz HDP4 amp running a sub and the rears with a couple more wires run to the front to run the woofers in the 3 Ways on 2 channels and the Mids and tweeters on the other 2 channels. But wanted to get a baseline for this first. Stage 2 will be quite a rework though. Not to mention the cost, lol. Another £700 just there.
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For those who are interested in the clipping rates of the RNS 510, I was able to finally do some preliminary testing yesterday afternoon.
I tried with the speakers set in both high output and low output modes (for sound system). The results were interesting and a little disappointing.
I played 2 reference tracks, one at 50Hz 0dB and the other at 1kHz 0dB.
With the 50Hz track, the unit started clipping at volume level 9, while with the 1kHz track, clipping started at 19. These are both out of a total of 30 on the volume control. When switching to low output, the values did not actually change much, being at 11 on the 50Hz track and 17 on the 1kHz track. What I find really odd, is that both times, the clipping happened only on the bottom end of the sine wave and not both as per usual. I would really like to get this verified by someone.
So, my next step now is to setup my Bit Ten using the 18 volume level setting as max for now.
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For those who are interested in the clipping rates of the RNS 510, I was able to finally do some preliminary testing yesterday afternoon.
I tried with the speakers set in both high output and low output modes (for sound system). The results were interesting and a little disappointing.
I played 2 reference tracks, one at 50Hz 0dB and the other at 1kHz 0dB.
With the 50Hz track, the unit started clipping at volume level 9, while with the 1kHz track, clipping started at 19. These are both out of a total of 30 on the volume control. When switching to low output, the values did not actually change much, being at 11 on the 50Hz track and 17 on the 1kHz track. What I find really odd, is that both times, the clipping happened only on the bottom end of the sine wave and not both as per usual. I would really like to get this verified by someone.
So, my next step now is to setup my Bit Ten using the 18 volume level setting as max for now.
So it clips the bass but the treble is untouched?
When you say switching to the low output? What exactly does that mean? If I've got my RCD510 speaker outputs going to an LOC what volume level do you suggest as using for my new 'fake' max? bearing in mind i can compensate a little for bass roll off with my LC2i
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It clips on both the 50Hz (bass) and the 1kHz (treble) tracks at the relevant volume levels I posted.
The RNS can be setup to be used with a factory amplifier or Dynaudio system. As such, using VCDS, you can switch the outputs from a high level output to a lower level output for those systems. There is a subtle drop in volume level, but to be honest, I would just stick with it as standard as you don't seem to gain much if anything using the lower output levels.
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It clips on both the 50Hz (bass) and the 1kHz (treble) tracks at the relevant volume levels I posted.
The RNS can be setup to be used with a factory amplifier or Dynaudio system. As such, using VCDS, you can switch the outputs from a high level output to a lower level output for those systems. There is a subtle drop in volume level, but to be honest, I would just stick with it as standard as you don't seem to gain much if anything using the lower output levels.
i see
i dont think the RCD510 can do that anyway
I also just checked and i currently have 15 set as my maximum
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Very cool...
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just got my new hertz HSK163 in.
this new version are far better made than the previous gen!
and the sound :notworthy: :notworthy:...... so smooth.
Question though... did you leave the crossover settings as standard or did you raise / lower the db settings for the mid and tweeter?
Mine sounds like it needs a tiny bit more mid range but means stripping my doors apart again to get to the crossover.
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I left the crossovers in standard mode. Figured it would be best, with using the equalizer on the Bit Ten D. I know what you mean, I will be tuning mine for a bit more midrange too. Seems a little lacking on that score. It did however sound much better when I was using the Focal JMLab demo discs instead of the mp3's on the HDD.
How did you mount the speakers? Do you still need the mounts? I was going to be making up a few sets today for stock.
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I left the crossovers in standard mode. Figured it would be best, with using the equalizer on the Bit Ten D. I know what you mean, I will be tuning mine for a bit more midrange too. Seems a little lacking on that score. It did however sound much better when I was using the Focal JMLab demo discs instead of the mp3's on the HDD.
How did you mount the speakers? Do you still need the mounts? I was going to be making up a few sets today for stock.
I used my old mdf rings but they are a bit crap.
If you are making some and i have to take the door cards off again anyway to change the cross over then i will def have a pair off you.
Re the mid range.. the cone sits a bit further forwards compared to the previous ones i had in there and bit worried they will be very close to the plastic on the inside of the door.. did you have any mounting issues with yours? Did you have to space the mdf away from the door at all?
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Nope, didn't have to space them at all. They sit perfect with loads of space to the grille. I did have to create a rebate to clear the plastic surround as the screw points are lower than the lip.
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Nope, didn't have to space them at all. They sit perfect with loads of space to the grille. I did have to create a rebate to clear the plastic surround as the screw points are lower than the lip.
Let me know when you have them made and ill have a couple off you.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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very very neat install--i took my amps out so i can get to the spare,but i now miss the bass out of the system--
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Thanks very much.
Switch to 3 ways in the front and amp them. You will be amazed how good the bass is with it just like that and no sub.
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how much for you to supply and fit the 3 ways and a put the amp at the side of the boot well
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how much for you to supply and fit the 3 ways and a put the amp at the side of the boot well
You got pm.
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not riecieved it yet :ashamed:
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Watch this space as I will hopefully have some updates in the near future.
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Just a quick question about the amp power cable. Where does it go through?! :signLOL:
Any more pictures / helpful hints?
Cheers
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Really, really like the look of this system!
Please let me know roughly the time /cost of a system like this.
Ta