MK5 Golf GTI
General => Product Reviews => Topic started by: RedRobin on June 10, 2009, 05:10:48 pm
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The Mk5 GTI, like many modern cars, suffers from the compromise which car manufacturers make in satisfying the mass market by increasing cabin soundproofing - I dread to think what the Mk6 GTI is like with it's VW stated soundproofing 'improvements' but am about to find out. There are far too many people, in my not so humble opinion, who prefer not to hear any of their engine or mechanical sounds. However, enthusiasts love to hear their (and other people's) exhaust sounds and many of us also recognise its value as a driving aid - You might not be able to always study your rev counter but you can at least always hear your rev levels and you know when your engine sounds healthy.
As individuals, us enthusiasts have our own individual preferences for the exhausts on our car. Some prefer it very loud, others not so loud, some very pop and crackly, others richer and deeper, etc etc. Each of the exhaust manufacturers offerings has its own distinctive sound.
Most of us feel weak at the knees when we hear a V6, a V8, in fact anything V! and also not forgetting a 5-cylinder or a Porsche engine. The lowly 4-pot is more limited in its appeal but an aftermarket exhaust system does much to help. I think we would all like our cars to sound like this : -
WHY?
A caring manufacturer feels a need to respond to its customers and also to grasp opportunities to beneficially continue to develop its products. Milltek is one of those companies which strives to continually do the best it can. This particular evolution of its quads for the Mk5 GTI has been initiated by my particular feedback and wishes regarding my own car.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2FR8_Milltek_Derby.jpg&hash=1e76cb402a6783e56501f61c72f82cf349c34409)
SOURCING:
Not yet available but will be via Milltek and their network of approved resellers.
Linky : - Milltek - Home page.... (http://www.millteksport.com/)
Prices unknown at this stage but pro rata to other Milltek products.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2FMilltek_subtle.jpg&hash=ecec1ae32944783a03c0b1c7fb85578e22560812)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2FMilltek_24May09_1.jpg&hash=0cacef10035a9eb7a183319fddf7112bbd497263)
OPTIONS:
- Currently quad exit pipe configuration but may be twin to follow.
- Either Black Satin ceramic finish tips or usual Milltek silver ones.
- Either Resonated (quieter) or Non-Resonated (louder) but the Non-Res version will have a small resonator box otherwise the system is alarmingly loud and guaranteed to get you into trouble.
INSTALLATION:
Unless you have the equipment and also are capable (I'm certainly not, and neither am I at all interested in doing my own car mechanics - "Help the aged!" I say), it's best to use an approved Milltek dealer's workshop.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2FMilltekQuads_April09.jpg&hash=8d3aa08165c1c95683d4056c9b9b185b9bdbe730)
^ EARLIER VERSION ON TEST ^
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2FMilltekQuads_May09.jpg&hash=a2568d772e3a6cf817aaa370e665fcca91a1edc7)
^ PRE-PRODUCTION VERSION ^
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2FMilltekQuads_May09_Res.jpg&hash=68f81bbb6b650c4cd31d019615911384e30de456)
COMPARISON WITH PREVIOUS VERSION:
Comparing the quad versions and not the twins:
- Sound - The new 'Resonated' version is louder than the previous version but quieter than the previous Non-Resonated version. I let SteveP drive my car recently and he does a big annual mileage such that a normal Non-Res Milltek was too loud for him except when in enthusiast-mode at weekends. He commented that my new Milltek was just right for his weekday needs. Chris aka WhiteGTI has an APR RSC system and would prefer mine slightly louder.
- Performance - Freer flowing and therefore delivering slightly more power in upper rev range. The new and smaller back box has virtually nothing in it and so the flow is easier.
- Style - Now slash-cut (angled) tips instead of straight-cut fatter walled tips. The result is that they look much more oem and don't stick out so much either.
- The ceramic finish is far more resistant to the elements than the previous powdercoated black.
- The pipes from the smaller back box are now 4 totally independent pipes instead of a 'Y' configuration and so equal exhaust gases flow is far more reliable.
- Being a shallower back box, it's now less visible from the rear except to surviving small mammals or someone lying in the road.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2FMilltek_May09.jpg&hash=2c2c21180a6943c7a789eb21aacaa018f8dc25b3)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2FRED_rear_May09.jpg&hash=8ff799094d2cc82ef10950f8db3550968f06c8ec)
PLUS POINTS:
- Sound - The Milltek sound is sophisticated and never boy-racer. It's a deeper and richer sound than most of its competitors but sound is of course very subjective and up to what each individual wants and prefers.
- Performance - TBE aka Turbo-back when in combination with an established tuner's remap, will deliver more power and exhaust efficiency.
- Style - The black ceramic finish tips are very stylish and low-key, especially when you have 4 exhaust pipes! They look cool. For those who love the all-black stealth spy plane look, they are surely a must-have.
- Practicality - The black ceramic version tips are extremely easy to keep clean and with a minimum of time and effort - Just like Monza wheels.
- Excellent warranty and aftersales service, if it's ever needed.
MINUS POINTS:
- Not the cheapest exhaust systems on the market (but one of the very best).
- Not really a minus point but you need to use a totally non-abrasive cleaner on the black tips. Meguiar's NXT Generation Tech Wax 2.0 (a cream) works extremely well and brings out the satin sheen.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2FMilltek_sheen.jpg&hash=300241b0d036e56a09bc28999beb11ec2b77789f)
SUMMARY:
The previous Milltek quad exhaust system has now evolved through a series of relatively small developments which add up to a much improved whole. It will, of course, be up to Milltek's management to decide if any of these developments can apply beneficially to the twin pipe versions.
I shall be working with Milltek in testing a slightly louder version over the next few months which will then be the equivalent of the previous 'Non-Resonated' version but with a small resonator. It's a fine balance but Milltek have over 30 years experience in such matters.
I had experienced minor problems with the earlier version (actually one of the very first examples of it) and it's a testament to Milltek how willing and helpful they have been in responding to my criticisms and providing solutions. The result is this version on my car and I am so confident in it that I have felt it appropriate to write this pre-production review.
I'll edit or add to this review in due course.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2FREDS4_VWR.jpg&hash=21b2e71341f1a0daac1442bb3a8704a325e58285)
The result is a much more subtle display of the quads. Eat your heart out, Mk6 GTI !!
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMk6_GTI%2FRear_REDvsMk6.jpg&hash=2a028c7c25b6093e9f10622863c0f94b28544365)
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Great review Robin. After hearing your car at the weekend, i think you've got it spot on with this review! :happy2:
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Great review as usual Robin. the mk5 looks so much more purposeful thank than the mk6 in that last picture :happy2:
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great write up as ever Red, fingers crossed some tips like that should be appearing on blue soon :happy2:
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Very interesting and I really love the style of the system!
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Thanks again RR! Great review!
I have to say that the resonated twin-tipped TBE is the quietest performance exhaust I've ever had - possibly even heard. It is so low key - I love it!
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Worth the wait Modfather! :drinking:
Must grab a drive next week and have a listen! :wink:
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Good Work Robin :happy2:
Thanks for your continued efforts with the reviews :drinking:
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Its in that last pic you realise how much nicer the mk5 looks than the mk6
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nice ...... :happy2:
esp like the pre-production and prod under floorpan shots , thats the kinda detail we all love :party:
keep it up RR :happy2:
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Great write up robin, :happy2:
love how much better the 5 looks than the 6 :drool:
any chance of getting gloss black pipes on my R32 rear? :drool:
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Nice work Robin.
Did you get wind of any intentions of supplying Twins with the Satin Black Tailpipes? They look very nice :happy2:
I just know that once Iv'e got my Bluefin, I'll be hankering after a Milly :smiley:
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Did you get wind of any intentions of supplying Twins with the Satin Black Tailpipes? They look very nice :happy2:
I just know that once Iv'e got my Bluefin, I'll be hankering after a Milly :smiley:
....I can ask about the black tips for you - Hold fire on buying your Milltek until I get back to you on your question.
Milly and remap go together like a horse and carriage (or is that love and marriage?).
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Thanks Robin. I won't be diving into any more financial outlay just yet. Will be great though if the satin becomes available. :smiley:
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^^^^
The black satin in ceramic finish will most definitely be available but I don't know yet if it's a stock Milltek factory option or a 'special' order.
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Incidentally Robin, have you had to have a new Tank Heatshield? It looks very spangly :smiley:
Also, have'nt looked under my car but you seem to have a fair bit or surface corrosion on some parts. Is this due to various mods being done and therefore spanner / ratchet contact? I'm surprised to see so many rusty bits on a 4 year old Dub. :confused:
I'd hazard a guess you've had it pressure washed under there a few times?
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^^^^
I'm not aware of having a new tank heatshield unless Milltek fitted one.
Thanks for the heads-up re rusty bits - I'll have to ask Mark at VWR when my car's next serviced (soon).
I've just polished my black gun barrels exhaust pipes in readiness for our invasion of Germany in a couple of days - They give a satin sheen very easily - A real joy to clean and very eeeeasy.
:happy2:
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Hmmmmm Yum, Yum. I think they'll look good with my std rear valance too, thats why I'm keen on them. :smiley:
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Here's mine Mick just in cast you need any more convincing! :laugh:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FGreenouse%2FR32%2FP5240036.jpg&hash=fb831abed3a22d5fd70e03c59119e5e8bdd0bfed)
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8) They're the future IMO :happy2:
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Great write up Robin... i love reading your reviews/threads :smiley:
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RR are there performance improvements with the new exhaust setup?
P.S. I'm not warming to the Mk6 - only time will tell... just love the aggressive angry bull look of the MK5 too much!
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RR are there performance improvements with the new exhaust setup?
....No. The performance benefits come mainly from the engine end via the hi-flow+downpipe. Although I had a new hi-flow+downpipe last year, this review is about the rear sections.
EDIT: Slightly better flow and therefore slightly at better top end. See my original first post.
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are there any sound clips of one of these availablle?
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are there any sound clips of one of these availablle?
....Not as yet, Glen.
The pre-production system I've got on at the moment has a 'noise' level which I would describe as inbetween their Resonated (quieter) and Non-Resonated systems.
My back box has "virtually nothing in it" Milltek inform me and consequently there is a resonator box otherwise it would be too loud for legal use - See pic below : -
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2FMilltekQuads_May09_Res.jpg&hash=68f81bbb6b650c4cd31d019615911384e30de456)
Milltek expect to have a louder resonator section for us to try available from next week.
That's the background but to answer your question more directly, I'll have to ask Milltek about future sound clips. Meanwhile, if you PM stokeballoon who travelled about 1,200 miles with me to Nurburgring, he could tell you what my current "Resonated" Milltek sounds like. I'd describe it as audible all the time but only louder at higher revs. SteveP, TC, marky, Greenouse, would be able to comment on what it sounds like outside the car - Nothing like as loudly exciting as Greenouse's Milltek! (memories of the tunnels of Brussels!).
The other factor just to complicate things is that I now (since The Ring trip) have VWR Fast Road engine mounts and this contributes a wonderful Grrrrrrrr!! into the sound mix under throttle, inside the car.
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robin why is it pre production?? because of the black tips? nath has black tips on his R32?!
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robin why is it pre production?? because of the black tips? nath has black tips on his R32?!
....Not because of the ceramic black tips - Please read my original first post. Nath got his at around the same time they were being made for mine.
Only ceramic black satin available, not gloss.
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excellent write up RR-
on my gt tdi am thinking of getting the full milltek fitted now would i fit the res or non res system and also will i have to get the map on my car redone
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excellent write up RR-
on my gt tdi am thinking of getting the full milltek fitted now would i fit the res or non res system and also will i have to get the map on my car redone
....Thanx Andy :drinking:
There is no performance difference between the Res and Non-Res systems - Just loudness (Res is quieter).
When you ask "will i have to get the map on my car redone?", do you mean your car is stock map or that it's got an aftermarket tuner's map, and which one?
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its a custom map-done at awesome
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its a custom map-done at awesome
....As long as it's not some obscure and crazy remap (unlikely at Awesome) it won't upset the Milltek cat by running too hot etc. So the answer to your question is that you shouldn't have to redo your remap after fitting a Milltek. If in doubt ask either Awesome or Milltek.
Btw, you'll get better aftersales warranty if you buy directly from Milltek.
HTH :happy2:
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its a custom map-done at awesome
....As long as it's not some obscure and crazy remap (unlikely at Awesome) it won't upset the Milltek cat by running too hot etc. So the answer to your question is that you shouldn't have to redo your remap after fitting a Milltek. If in doubt ask either Awesome or Milltek.
Btw, you'll get better aftersales warranty if you buy directly from Milltek.
HTH :happy2:
cheers R-it wont heve a cat on the car,been a diesel they don't need one for the mot,which will make the exhaust less resticted
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Btw, you'll get better aftersales warranty if you buy directly from Milltek.
Just for reference the warranty for a Milltek is lifetime for the first owner, and is the same wether you go to Milltek themselves or an authorised dealer - no difference whatsover :happy2:
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Just for reference the warranty for a Milltek is lifetime for the first owner, and is the same wether you go to Milltek themselves or an authorised dealer - no difference whatsover :happy2:
....Yes. However, I was alluding to the fact that you may get the same support as a second owner if the original system was bought directly and your issue is reasonable. I know of several instances where this is the case. In other words, Milltek often try to support their products even beyond first ownership. Some authorised dealerships may be less likely to take up your issue as a second owner - A line has to be drawn somewhere.
For example: Someone buys a car which the first owner bought a Milltek system for, and the system is less than a couple of years old and a problem develops. Although technically Milltek aren't obliged beyond the first owner, they would wish to support their product providing that the second owner's claim is reasonable/justifiable. Such issues can only be viewed and decided by Milltek on a case by case basis of course.
For those who don't already know, please understand that I do not work for Milltek and none of my statements should be taken as if I was their representative but I do have a lot of experience in working with them.
:happy2:
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Robin, how do you get what you said in the 3 paragraphs above, from the one that I quoted!, and how was anyone supposed to know thats what you meant! :laugh:
Engage brain before keyboard! :happy2:
But yes, we deal with Milltek all the time and they are very helpful, but then I am a Milltek dealer
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Robin, how do you get what you said in the 3 paragraphs above, from the one that I quoted!, and how was anyone supposed to know thats what you meant! :laugh:
Engage brain before keyboard! :happy2:
....I was expanding from the "first owner" point you made.
Quote from Rowan Atkinson: "We are both fluent, Beddows my boy, but unfortunately not in the same language!"
:happy2: