MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: Marshall on September 22, 2012, 03:16:30 pm
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Beginning to lean towards a fuel pump upgrade and I know APR are the preferred way forward but I'm a little put off by the cost.
I see there are a few out there with Autotech internals and a company called hpfpupgrade.
I was thinking of buying some new Autotech internals but after reading lots of reviews there's talk of a step on the piston causing the oem seal to fail in the pump, does anyone know if the newest Autotech internals still have a stepped piston?
Or does anyone have any other suggestions for me?
Thanks
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APR is the only way for total peace of mind... you get what you pay for... Otherwise Autotech Internals, if you go this route, see if you can get a new pump to fit to...
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How much is the LOBA version?
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How much is the LOBA version?
Just looked and they are 895 euros
Maybe just need to keep an eye open for a good used APR pump.
I should probably have kept the last one I bought instead of selling it before fitting it.
Does anyone know how much a new oem hpfp is?
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I should probably have kept the last one I bought instead of selling it before fitting it.
I'm so glad you didn't :wink: Doing very nicely on my car...
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Just bought a new oem pump so need to decide whether to send it to apr or try some internals?
Glad the pumps working well for you mate.
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I know their expensive Kev but I think it's worth it in the long run. Go Apr.
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Now I've got a spare pump it makes it easier no matter what way I go.
Decisions decisions
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APR
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GO-APR
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It would make more sense with having the software.
Just need to save some more I think. :happy2:
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895 for the LOBA.... I'm sure those guys smoke crack all day long. LOL
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895 for the LOBA.... I'm sure those guys smoke crack all day long. LOL
:grin:
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895 for the LOBA.... I'm sure those guys smoke crack all day long. LOL
maybe they had a few to many :laugh:
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Try jkm mate..I've brought mine from them..they seem the cheapest
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What's the price difference between the LOBA and the APR?
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What's the price difference between the LOBA and the APR?
Not a lot tbh. Apr have dropped the price which used to be around 650 for a new pump. Not sure if the loba price is with vat or shipping added on.
Jake, could you see much physical difference between the two pumps?
What fprv do loba recommend to fit?
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^^^^^^^^^^
Where are you getting that price from alex ? Can you supply them at price ?
the APR is £803 at the moment
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What's the price difference between the LOBA and the APR?
Not a lot tbh. Apr have dropped the price which used to be around 650 for a new pump. Not sure if the loba price is with vat or shipping added on.
Jake, could you see much physical difference between the two pumps?
What fprv do loba recommend to fit?
The piston is a different shape, also the piston tip where it makes contact with the cam follower is different Alex
LOBA recommends the RS4 FPRV
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I am a reseller for the HPFP upgrade pumps. Haven't had a chance to import a batch yet but from research and speaking with the director they are pretty impressive and as good as the competition pumps but yet at a chunk lower of a price. The main difference is an upgraded seal compared to the likes of the APR pump, I'm sure the internal designs are similar to the APR and LOBA. Last time I asked he had sold a couple hundred of them with no failures as of yet which is positive!
P.S danishmkvgti that is an awesome sig pic!
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What is the price of a hpfpupgrade from you if you import them then?
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Is there a part number for the new seals?
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What is the price of a hpfpupgrade from you if you import them then?
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Have done a bit of number crunching for the duty and vat charges coming from the US including postage etc. Normal price is around £680 imported (for a stage 1 pump), I think I can retail them for around £575ish including VAT but would have to buy 5 of them at least, not too much of an issue as I want one on mine anyway :grin: They also sell upgraded rail valves that can be set to 135, 145 or 155 bar.
They do offer a stage 2 pump which is recommended for big turbo engines, wouldn't imagine it's needed under 400bhp
Is there a part number for the new seals?
They upgrade their pumps with a custom seal, not OEM. It's another secondary seal that stop the oil mixing with the fuel, apparently it's a patented design so other fuel pumps can't use it.
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It Would be advisable to replace the OEM seal if up grading your internals thou... ?
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It Would be advisable to replace the OEM seal if up grading your internals thou... ?
It would, if anyone made updated seals... but they don't so you can't.
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I am a reseller for the HPFP upgrade pumps. Haven't had a chance to import a batch yet but from research and speaking with the director they are pretty impressive and as good as the competition pumps but yet at a chunk lower of a price. The main difference is an upgraded seal compared to the likes of the APR pump, I'm sure the internal designs are similar to the APR and LOBA. Last time I asked he had sold a couple hundred of them with no failures as of yet which is positive!
P.S danishmkvgti that is an awesome sig pic!
The APR pump has upgraded seals.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.goapr.co.uk%2Fincludes%2Fimg%2Fproducts%2Ffuel_pump_parts.jpg&hash=ef787bf5f694e5df6c661eebe5cf993c69b34d46)
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My APR pump has been faultless for 50k miles :love: and going strong
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New pumps are 802GBP and we have rebuilds in stock at 478GBP. :drinking:
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New pumps are 802GBP and we have rebuilds in stock at 478GBP. :drinking:
A rebuild pump does that mean you take my old one?
I've bought a new pump but it has the top sensor missing so that's why I was looking at an upgrade only.
If I could use the new pump without the top sensor as the rebuild pump I'd stick with the APR to compliment my already fantastic APR software.
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New pumps are 802GBP and we have rebuilds in stock at 478GBP. :drinking:
A rebuild pump does that mean you take my old one?
I've bought a new pump but it has the top sensor missing so that's why I was looking at an upgrade only.
If I could use the new pump without the top sensor as the rebuild pump I'd stick with the APR to compliment my already fantastic APR software.
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Yes Kev, they'd need your old pump for the lower price. I doubt they would accept an incomplete pump as an exchange but Keith will confirm that.
Go APR!!!
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I've been messaging Keith with regards to least downtime if I swap it for my original pump.
If that's a no no I may need to try and source a sensor or a pump from a breakers yard etc.
The hpfpupgrade upgrades come with the internals and the top sensor for £339 although I do fancy the apr pump now as I wasn't aware of the £478 option :notworthy:
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Rebuilds In stock !!!
Great ! ill give you a bell on monday about them
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I've been messaging Keith with regards to least downtime if I swap it for my original pump.
If that's a no no I may need to try and source a sensor or a pump from a breakers yard etc.
The hpfpupgrade upgrades come with the internals and the top sensor for £339 although I do fancy the apr pump now as I wasn't aware of the £478 option :notworthy:
If your pump doesnt have the top sensor then could it still be used as an exchange as the sensor isnt available separately?
You could always send APR a brand new pump that they could then send off to get made into an uprated version. This way you have a brand new pump and uprated internals.
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I've been messaging Keith with regards to least downtime if I swap it for my original pump.
If that's a no no I may need to try and source a sensor or a pump from a breakers yard etc.
The hpfpupgrade upgrades come with the internals and the top sensor for £339 although I do fancy the apr pump now as I wasn't aware of the £478 option :notworthy:
If your pump doesnt have the top sensor then could it still be used as an exchange as the sensor isnt available separately?
You could always send APR a brand new pump that they could then send off to get made into an uprated version. This way you have a brand new pump and uprated internals.
Keith says he could send my new pump to America to be rebuilt which would take 2 weeks but he wasn't sure if the top sensor would be available.
I always thought when a pump was upgraded the top sensor would be replaced? Hence why I thought that APR could get hold of them.
Hpfpugrade sells the sensor as part of their kit so they must be available.
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The sensor isn't a separate part that's available to buy. I'm not aware of it being an uprated part by Apr etc.
I think its all dependant on there being a few spare sensors kicking about at hpfpupgrade or Apr.
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Keith says if I pay via card over the phone he will ship the pump then I can ship mine when I fit it (within a day or so)
Although I'd still prefer to get my new pump rebuilt by them so trying to source a sensor somehow.
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How much is a brand new oem hpfp with sensor ?
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About £150 for a new oem pump with sensor.
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Cheers , thats crazy !
So apr charge £803 for a new pump
Either that or do a little leg work and source a brand new pump and get them to build it for £600 !
That way you still have a brand new pump !
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Either that or get Autotech internals fitted by somone who knows what they are doing and have had NO reported issues with them in over 100 sets fitted :signLOL:, you should be able to do that for under £385 :signLOL:
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Ive got autotech intenals :happy2:
Ok prices from today
Apr = £803
Jkm =£780
Vw new pump then rebuild by APR = £695
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Ive got autotech intenals :happy2:
Ok prices from today
Apr = £803
Jkm =£780
Vw new pump then rebuild by APR = £695
Rebuilds are only 478.80GBP. If you send me a brand new OEM pump, I'll send you a brand new APR pump and charge you the rebuild price of 478.80.
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Ive got autotech intenals :happy2:
Ok prices from today
Apr = £803
Jkm =£780
Vw new pump then rebuild by APR = £695
Rebuilds are only 478.80GBP. If you send me a brand new OEM pump, I'll send you a brand new APR pump and charge you the rebuild price of 478.80.
:surprised: :surprised: Bonkers not to!
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Ive got autotech intenals :happy2:
Ok prices from today
Apr = £803
Jkm =£780
Vw new pump then rebuild by APR = £695
Rebuilds are only 478.80GBP. If you send me a brand new OEM pump, I'll send you a brand new APR pump and charge you the rebuild price of 478.80.
I will be taking part in this deal lets face it I'd be crazy not to.
If I could just find a sensor for my new pump it would make it better as I'd always have a spare pump come trade in time etc.
Keith don't suppose you could ask the question next time you speak with America?
I'd even use the new pump I have as a rebuild trade in if you could get one. (Not bothered about a brand new one)
It's a massive ask but would be extremely helpful.
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I take it this could be done with the pump thats on the car, or would it have to be new?
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I take it this could be done with the pump thats on the car, or would it have to be new?
If you present a used pump for a rebuild, you'll get a used pump in return, still same rebuild price.
Thanks!
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Cheers :drinking: Keith
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Anyone know of any decent dealers for the oem HPFP ? I got a quote for
£198 today ?
Are seat dealers cheaper ?
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Try Dave at Seremotors on the cupra forum.
He's a Seat dealer from Belfast very helpful and great service.
And always the best price too.
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Anyone know of any decent dealers for the oem HPFP ? I got a quote for
£198 today ?
Are seat dealers cheaper ?
Try Stoke Audi and say you're an Audi-Sport member. In a lot of cases that will get you parts cheaper than from TPS. One example that immediately comes to mind is them quoting me less than £70 for a TT-S engine cover, but there have been other times too.
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Cheers guys
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Here's what I have
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1085.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj437%2Fkevsfr%2FA8319F4B-B3A0-48F5-8AEC-947D6D1D5807-1488-00000029C9E6FF15.jpg&hash=e7820a5646c1d364f970d9518396cd06d80c63ff)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1085.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj437%2Fkevsfr%2F84C45D6C-D3B4-49AB-B53A-95A9DEC813DA-1488-00000029C438F6BB.jpg&hash=02ba48f4edb2163e3e82fd00d66fe1a8cc383d79)
Struggling to find a sensor to replace the broken one.
I may need to sell this pump for someone to rebuild and use their original sensor.
And then probably buy another new complete one.
Somebody must be able to help.
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Well couldn't manage to find a sensor so sold the pump on to someone else.
I've found a new pump for £145 so think I will need to speak to Keith next week and organise sending him my brand new pump.
Looks like I'm getting closer now.
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Well couldn't manage to find a sensor so sold the pump on to someone else.
I've found a new pump for £145 so think I will need to speak to Keith next week and organise sending him my brand new pump.
Looks like I'm getting closer now.
Where's the new pump from Kevin?
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Through a Skoda dealer on eBay mate.
100% genuine and sealed too.
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Through a Skoda dealer on eBay mate.
100% genuine and sealed too.
Nice one.
What was the next best price you managed to get?
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I haven't tried anywhere else yet as Seremotors is not answering replies due to audit.
Going to see how much tps are in the morning but don't think they'll beat that do you?
Once I've got it Keith said earlier in this thread if I sent him a brand new pump he'd ship me a brand new APR pump :drinking:
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I haven't tried anywhere else yet as Seremotors is not answering replies due to audit.
Going to see how much tps are in the morning but don't think they'll beat that do you?
Once I've got it Keith said earlier in this thread if I sent him a brand new pump he'd ship me a brand new APR pump :drinking:
No, I think you got a good deal there. :happy2:
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For anyone else wanting to buy a brand new genuine pump for £145.99 delivered here's the link.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380460532845?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_1682wt_1250
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£135 from SERE when they've finished their audit
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Are you sure mate?
I messaged Dave on Tuesday and he was on audit as you say so would need to wait till this Tuesday.
Bought it for £146
Tps wanted £131 +vat
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Perhaps there has been a price increase then :happy2:
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I got one from Dave in person a month ago for 135. A few pounds should post it.
Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2
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If I add a APR pump to a stage 2 APR car will I notice any difference or will I need to go 2+ to notice?
Just it'll be a little while till I'm anywhere near Awesome Gti and wondered if it was a noticeable difference.
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So. The APR fuel pump is just an OEM pump with APR internals fitted?
I struggle to see why they are so much dearer than autotech internals+fitting. :-/
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APR use a different design piston and use an uprated seal to ensure no fuel goes into the engine oil.
Have a great reputation for reliability too.
But yes all pumps start as a oem pump.
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I thought then machined internals to really high tolerances and fit new seals and suited pistons etc... well worth the money for the reliabilty...
As for making a difference on stage 2, I think it just smooths out the power delivery, making sure it meets requested fuelling, so does run better. I know after going stage 2 with a ITG Panel filter and 3"/200CEL downpipe I dropped power to 272bhp(289bhp stage 1) and fitted the APR pump, EVOMS and BCS Exhaust and now at 310bhp... think that's more down to the EVOMS though as it derestricted it...
I hope to go stage 2+ though where the fuel pump will come into it's own... :)
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APR use a different design piston and use an uprated seal to ensure no fuel goes into the engine oil.
Have a great reputation for reliability too.
But yes all pumps start as a oem pump.
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Why is it known for other internals to let fuel in to the oil ?
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APR use a different design piston and use an uprated seal to ensure no fuel goes into the engine oil.
Have a great reputation for reliability too.
But yes all pumps start as a oem pump.
Why is it known for other internals to let fuel in to the oil ?
....At the risk of appearing to trash the reputation of Autotech internals just because I have an APR pump (I am just reporting and have no such intentions):
There has been a case of a car with Autotech internals catching fire and getting wrecked. Investigations showed that the pump's failure started the fire. I don't know of any other similar cases but that doesn't mean that there aren't any.
For anyone who does decide to buy Autotech pump internals I would advise buying them new and also buying a brand new OEM pump to install them in and have it done by an expert.
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As for making a difference on stage 2, I think it just smooths out the power delivery, making sure it meets requested fuelling, so does run better.
.... x 2
I found that with my K03 Mk5 GTI running on Revo Stage 2 with Twintake and Milltek, the APR pump improved my AFR (shown on JKM's dyno-plot) and also cured an occasional hesitation when accelerating hard. Fortunately I didn't experience any fuel cuts but that problem is not uncommon.
As a direct consequence, JKM were able to increase my B/T/F setting and my car feels much stronger in the mid to higher range. In fact, when needed for a quick overtake, the acceleration from ~60 to ~95 astounds me! I strictly keep it under 100 in the UK.
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Interesting thread this.
I know the original version of the Autotech's were apparently prone to failure, but can anybody confirm any failures on the internals from the later revisions?
TBH I've only ever been concerned with a possible failure of the cam follower. If I fitted an APR pump would I still need to be worried about this as well?
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Yes, replace when fitting and check more regularly...
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Yes, replace when fitting and check more regularly...
....I assume you are referring to the cam follower, Dom :happy2:
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I would like to know how the conclusion was reached that the fuel pump was responsible for the fire. Then I'd like to know how a fuel pump can be responsible for a fire, considering it's a piston pushing fuel so you need a source of ignition which is likely to be outside the fuel pump. Then I would like to know, if the above conditions are satisfied, how an Autotech specifically increased the likelihood of causing said fire.
Hundreds, if not thousands of Autotech HPFPs have been fitted. If fires were a serious risk we would certainly know about them. I'd also like to point out that with regular inspection the symptoms of an Autotech fuel pump failure would be obvious before any serious damage has been done. All you'd need to do would be to buy a new pump for less than £200. There has been a case of a catastrophic engine failure in the US on a car with an APR pump with no warning.
Less than £500 for an APR is good value, but modifying anything outside of OEM specs carries with it a degree of risk. I think you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. What this boils down to is whether you think APR halve the risk, i.e. can be justified in charging 2-3x the price of an Autotech. I don't think they do, and for that reason I'm out.
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I would like to know how the conclusion was reached that the fuel pump was responsible for the fire. Then I'd like to know how a fuel pump can be responsible for a fire, considering it's a piston pushing fuel so you need a source of ignition which is likely to be outside the fuel pump. Then I would like to know, if the above conditions are satisfied, how an Autotech specifically increased the likelihood of causing said fire.
....You would have to speak to people very much more expert than myself in investigating the causes of fires, whether automobile and/or otherwise. My understanding is that there was no doubt.
However, if as you report, there has also "been a case of a catastrophic engine failure in the US on a car with an APR pump with no warning", then as to be expected with even OEM fuel pumps, there is risk. OEM components are not devoid of any risk.
The wise man minimises the risks. That's why I suggested in my earlier post either fitting brand new Autotech internals in a brand new OEM pump or buying an APR pump (which I personally chose to do as it gives me far greater peace of mind). Simples :smiley:
The Autotech vs APR debate will never be resolved because we each naturally tend to favour the individual choice we made. :happy2:
I have asked this before, but hypothetically if the Autotech and APR pumps each cost exactly the same, which would you buy?
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I have asked this before, but hypothetically if the Autotech and APR pumps each cost exactly the same, which would you buy?
That's as irrelevant as me asking if you'd have still bought an APR if it was £5000.
They don't cost the same, and in my opinion the APR does not do enough to mitigate the risk to justify it's price. Hence I went for an Autotech.
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I would like to know how the conclusion was reached that the fuel pump was responsible for the fire.
The fuel pump leaked fuel into the sump which several people have reported but not with the same results.
This resulted in, no particular order, a hole in the side of the block which allowed allowed that mixture to hit the cat.
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I find the Apr to give a more constant fuel pressure hold on wot. The autotech never seems to be able to hold quite as much pressure and fluctuates the pressure more.
Fuel mixing into the oil will always destroy an engine. Even if the oil is drained, the fuel will have caused damage to the bearings and the bore which reduces the life of the engine.
Autotech internals do the job, but its always best to fit them to a new pump.
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I had a standard fuel pump fail on me let alone one with uprated internals. Would like to think it I caught it early drained oil washed through with fresh oil once warmed up. Now running some good stuff. Think it has killed my k03 tho oil leaks when parked on a curb leaning down on the side of the downpipe. And get a nice big puff of smoke when going up a hill or once warm when you hoot it. Alex you think anything else could be damaged?
Sie
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I have asked this before, but hypothetically if the Autotech and APR pumps each cost exactly the same, which would you buy?
That's as irrelevant as me asking if you'd have still bought an APR if it was £5000.
They don't cost the same, and in my opinion the APR does not do enough to mitigate the risk to justify it's price. Hence I went for an Autotech.
....It's because they don't cost the same that I suggested that you IMAGINE (I'm sure you know what "hypothetically" means) that they do cost the same, that you hadn't chosen which pump yet, and therefore which would you choose?
If you prefer, it's the same as telling you that someone is generously offering you the choice of either HPFP as a gift - Which would you prefer to have?
You may still choose the Autotech pump - I know which you have chosen but wonder if your choice (and anyone else's choice) would be the same IF they both cost exactly the same.
I'm afraid that if you don't see the point of this question, then there is no point me trying to explain any further :smiley: [It's a genuine question and not meant to be rude or unfriendly towards you].
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I have asked this before, but hypothetically if the Autotech and APR pumps each cost exactly the same, which would you buy?
That's as irrelevant as me asking if you'd have still bought an APR if it was £5000.
They don't cost the same, and in my opinion the APR does not do enough to mitigate the risk to justify it's price. Hence I went for an Autotech.
....It's because they don't cost the same that I suggested that you IMAGINE (I'm sure you know what "hypothetically" means) that they do cost the same, that you hadn't chosen which pump yet, and therefore which would you choose?
If you prefer, it's the same as telling you that someone is generously offering you the choice of either HPFP as a gift - Which would you prefer to have?
You may still choose the Autotech pump - I know which you have chosen but wonder if your choice (and anyone else's choice) would be the same IF they both cost exactly the same.
I'm afraid that if you don't see the point of this question, then there is no point me trying to explain any further :smiley: [It's a genuine question and not meant to be rude or unfriendly towards you].
I'm not denying that the APR probably carries with it less risk than an Autotech. In your hypothetical situation it would be the one to have.
But in the real world, in my opinion, there is not enough of a decrease in risk to justify it's price. PDT have sold hundreds of Autotechs without a single failure. As i've mentioned before if I were to crunch the numbers I'm sure that would yield a mathematically significant result more powerful than the results we require before deciding which drugs to give people (!)
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Looking at both arguments for the APR and the Autotech. I went with the Autotech purely because I did not feel that the APR pump commanded such a high price for the same part. Both are designed differently but in real world driving there would be no on the difference in car performance. Like every part that is uprated you run the risk of failure as more stress is applied.That was also a reason why I chose the Autotech internals as it uses the oe spring. I know the APR uses much stronger spring rate and can cause issues with the cam follower wearing quicker. I also belive that is the only reason why the APR pumps seem to hold a slighlty higher rail pressure as the spring pushes the pump out quicker and gives slighlty more force to push the fuel through.
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I have asked this before, but hypothetically if the Autotech and APR pumps each cost exactly the same, which would you buy?
That's as irrelevant as me asking if you'd have still bought an APR if it was £5000.
They don't cost the same, and in my opinion the APR does not do enough to mitigate the risk to justify it's price. Hence I went for an Autotech.
....It's because they don't cost the same that I suggested that you IMAGINE (I'm sure you know what "hypothetically" means) that they do cost the same, that you hadn't chosen which pump yet, and therefore which would you choose?
If you prefer, it's the same as telling you that someone is generously offering you the choice of either HPFP as a gift - Which would you prefer to have?
You may still choose the Autotech pump - I know which you have chosen but wonder if your choice (and anyone else's choice) would be the same IF they both cost exactly the same.
I'm afraid that if you don't see the point of this question, then there is no point me trying to explain any further :smiley: [It's a genuine question and not meant to be rude or unfriendly towards you].
I'm not denying that the APR probably carries with it less risk than an Autotech. In your hypothetical situation it would be the one to have.
But in the real world, in my opinion, there is not enough of a decrease in risk to justify it's price. PDT have sold hundreds of Autotechs without a single failure. As i've mentioned before if I were to crunch the numbers I'm sure that would yield a mathematically significant result more powerful than the results we require before deciding which drugs to give people (!)
So have Jabbasport, when I asked about which to go for they said "Autotech", they told me they do the same job as the APR and having fitted plenty themselves with no failures they are happy to recommend them (Jabbaluke ran one in his ED30).
I don't particularly like APR tho so would be biased on my own choice (Autotech), and the high price of APR, but ETTO :happy2:
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Everyone has their own opinion but as for price it's a no brainier surely.
The most reliable way of doing an Autotech internal job is to fit to a new pump right.
New pump £150ish i
New internals £290
Total £440 plus paying someone to fit them.
APR rebuild pump £478 already built and ready to fit.
Sorry but without the fitting charge for the Autotech the APR deal at £38 difference I can only see one way to go.
APR here we come.
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Everyone has their own opinion but as for price it's a no brainier surely.
The most reliable way of doing an Autotech internal job is to fit to a new pump right.
New pump £150ish i
New internals £290
Total £440 plus paying someone to fit them.
APR rebuild pump £478 already built and ready to fit.
Sorry but without the fitting charge for the Autotech the APR deal at £38 difference I can only see one way to go.
APR here we come.
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Except for £478 you either have to buy a new pump, £150, or have your car off the road for 2 weeks.
If you choose to buy a new one your old one could only be worth £50 or so, so it's more like £138 more, or massive inconvenience.
I brought my Autotech to vRSAlex, rolled out 30mins later with Autotech internals and a new cam follower. No inconvenience at all.
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Everyone has their own opinion but as for price it's a no brainier surely.
The most reliable way of doing an Autotech internal job is to fit to a new pump right.
New pump £150ish i
New internals £290
Total £440 plus paying someone to fit them.
APR rebuild pump £478 already built and ready to fit.
Sorry but without the fitting charge for the Autotech the APR deal at £38 difference I can only see one way to go.
APR here we come.
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Jabbasport stated rebuild of existing pump with Autotech internals was fine (It gets cleaned before internals fitted), no need to spend another £150 on a new pump, so its gonna cost you £285 plus half hour labour :happy2:, believe thats a fair bit less than £478 plus half hour labour (and car not off road for 2 weeks) :happy2:
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Sorry but the 2 weeks downtime isn't true.
If I removed mine today and sent it next day delivery APR would send my new one tomorrow next day delivery so 2 days downtime.
The other option would be when ordering pay a refundable surcharge when they receive your old pump back you get your surcharge back.
This make zero downtime so still seems the only way to go IMHO.
Sent from my iPhone
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You still can't compare a new pump with Autotech internals to a refurbished APR. Compare like for like and I still feel it's not worth it.
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Each to their own and I know which way I'm going.
If we were all the same it would be a boring world.
Sent from my iPhone
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Each to their own and I know which way I'm going.
If we were all the same it would be a boring world.
....Agreed :happy2:
And no regrets about the one I chose and that it cost me more money which I could have spent elsewhere. I can feel the difference the aftermarket HPFP makes.
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Each to their own and I know which way I'm going.
If we were all the same it would be a boring world.
....Agreed :happy2:
And no regrets about the one I chose and that it cost me more money which I could have spent elsewhere. I can feel the difference the aftermarket HPFP makes.
You'd probably have the same opinion if you had bought a new pump and had Autotech internals fitted to it.....
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And no regrets about the one I chose and that it cost me more money which I could have spent elsewhere. I can feel the difference the aftermarket HPFP makes.
You'd probably have the same opinion if you had bought a new pump and had Autotech internals fitted to it.....
....Only if I had made that choice, but I didn't. I have more faith in the APR pump and chose accordingly. ETTO [/end of]
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Little help required I've just bought new internals befor this thred started so iv also now got a second hand pump to fit them to, what else do I require? Seals, follower ect?? Cheers jason
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You don't NEED a cam follower but it is strongly advised you change at the time of fitting.
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Il get one then, anyone got a part number and rough price?
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Not got a part number but I think they're about £30
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2.0T FSI Fuel Pump Cam Follower Kit 06D109309C
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You don't NEED a cam follower but it is strongly advised you change at the time of fitting.
....Especially as it's particularly easy while the fuel pump is getting changed.
Not got a part number but I think they're about £30
....Closer to £20 IIRC, so makes even more sense to take the opportunity to change the cam follower.
:happy2:
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You don't NEED a cam follower but it is strongly advised you change at the time of fitting.
....Especially as it's particularly easy while the fuel pump is getting changed.
Not got a part number but I think they're about £30
....Closer to £20 IIRC, so makes even more sense to take the opportunity to change the cam follower.
:happy2:
Pretty sure mine was £18.76 when It was done a few months back, well worth doing for the price.
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TPS retail is £23.09 + vat.
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TPS retail is £23.09 + vat.
one fish in the net, PM please Alex :wink:
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1081.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj359%2FLOBASI%2F550013_497777643596711_1512647720_n_zps26dc960f.png&hash=c93e383011296e10e70466e23e589421590eaa86)
:drinking: Thats under £500 inc vat for a Brand New OEM complete uprated pump. (Not Remanufactured)
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1081.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj359%2FLOBASI%2F550013_497777643596711_1512647720_n_zps26dc960f.png&hash=c93e383011296e10e70466e23e589421590eaa86)
:drinking: Thats under £500 inc vat
....As you are a Loba representative, how about giving us some detailed info about how your HPFP differs from its rivals, and especially the APR...... Please :smiley:
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1081.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj359%2FLOBASI%2F550013_497777643596711_1512647720_n_zps26dc960f.png&hash=c93e383011296e10e70466e23e589421590eaa86)
:drinking: Thats under £500 inc vat for a Brand New OEM complete uprated pump. (Not Remanufactured)
So you build a pump from scratch and don't start with a standard pump?
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1081.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj359%2FLOBASI%2F550013_497777643596711_1512647720_n_zps26dc960f.png&hash=c93e383011296e10e70466e23e589421590eaa86)
:drinking: Thats under £500 inc vat for a Brand New OEM complete uprated pump. (Not Remanufactured)
So you build a pump from scratch and don't start with a standard pump?
No.... its still a hitachi pump.
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Oh. :happy2:
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AFAIK... same as the APR, i.e. OEM pump with installed internals.
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Would be nice to hear from some peeps running a LOBA pump as its now £300 cheaper than the APR its worth considering??
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Would be nice to hear from some peeps running a LOBA pump as its now £300 cheaper than the APR its worth considering??
.... x 2
Also, it would be good if Loba's forum member here could post some info - I have asked.
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Well he's online now so hopefully he will rather than just leaving us all hanging. :fighting:
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Well he's online now so hopefully he will rather than just leaving us all hanging. :fighting:
....If someone is logged in on the forum by default but doesn't have any of this forum's pages loaded at the time, does the forum member's online indicator still have its box displaying green?
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Well he's online now so hopefully he will rather than just leaving us all hanging. :fighting:
....If someone is logged in on the forum by default but doesn't have any of this forum's pages loaded at the time, does the forum member's online indicator still have its box displaying green?
Forum profiles show when users were last active
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1081.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj359%2FLOBASI%2F550013_497777643596711_1512647720_n_zps26dc960f.png&hash=c93e383011296e10e70466e23e589421590eaa86)
:drinking: Thats under £500 inc vat
....As you are a Loba representative, how about giving us some detailed info about how your HPFP differs from its rivals, and especially the APR...... Please :smiley:
Hi
First off i don't want any APR hassle :fighting: So not going to get into LOBA vs APR, its very clear there product is one of the better solutions.
Our Pump was tested for maybe a year or so on track and road and in the lab/cell to stimulate all conditions at OEM specifications, so we are confident in there ability to perform and last. Durability was a very important factor and we have engineered for this.
Each component part is hand inspected and tested to be in spec before assembled by a engineer, must be noted also that the Loba components have a tolerance far greater than OEM internals and others.
We are not willing to share detailed info as we don't want to teach our competitors sorry, but we very much did our homework.
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....As you are a Loba representative, how about giving us some detailed info about how your HPFP differs from its rivals, and especially the APR...... Please :smiley:
Hi
First off i don't want any APR hassle :fighting: So not going to get into LOBA vs APR, its very clear there product is one of the better solutions.
Our Pump was tested for maybe a year or so on track and road and in the lab/cell to stimulate all conditions at OEM specifications, so we are confident in there ability to perform and last. Durability was a very important factor and we have engineered for this.
Each component part is hand inspected and tested to be in spec before assembled by a engineer, must be noted also the Loba components have a tolerance far greater then OEM internals and others.
We are not willing to share detailed info as we don't want to teach our competitors sorry, but we very much did our homework.
....Thank You for your reply. My question was definitely not wanting to start any Loba vs APR "hassle" but was a genuine query regarding mechanical/design differences in the same way that the mechanical differences are now known and discussed with the APR and Autotech pumps.
The question is asked from the point of view of hoping to inform any member here to help them make a choice if they are considering buying an aftermarket pump.
The details of your HPFP's construction and design will doubtless become known in due course whether you wish that or not.
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....As you are a Loba representative, how about giving us some detailed info about how your HPFP differs from its rivals, and especially the APR...... Please :smiley:
Hi
First off i don't want any APR hassle :fighting: So not going to get into LOBA vs APR, its very clear there product is one of the better solutions.
Our Pump was tested for maybe a year or so on track and road and in the lab/cell to stimulate all conditions at OEM specifications, so we are confident in there ability to perform and last. Durability was a very important factor and we have engineered for this.
Each component part is hand inspected and tested to be in spec before assembled by a engineer, must be noted also the Loba components have a tolerance far greater then OEM internals and others.
We are not willing to share detailed info as we don't want to teach our competitors sorry, but we very much did our homework.
....Thank You for your reply. My question was definitely not wanting to start any Loba vs APR "hassle" but was a genuine query regarding mechanical/design differences in the same way that the mechanical differences are now known and discussed with the APR and Autotech pumps.
The question is asked from the point of view of hoping to inform any member here to help them make a choice if they are considering buying an aftermarket pump.
The details of your HPFP's construction and design will doubtless become known in due course whether you wish that or not.
Maybe so but not here and now by me, i feel over time all will see our solution is a good option.
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I'm interested in one of these from Loba but I also have the money available to buy the APR one.
Other than price, can you tell me why I should buy the Loba pump over the APR pump? Obviously I don't mean to sound like I'm after an argument, I just can't see anyone taking such a huge risk just to save £300 or so without having the relevant info needed to make an educated decision on which to buy.
I am genuinely interested in one but wouldn't buy one without knowledge or personal reviews off a few people.
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I'm interested in one of these from Loba but I also have the money available to buy the APR one.
Other than price, can you tell me why I should buy the Loba pump over the APR pump? Obviously I don't mean to sound like I'm after an argument, I just can't see anyone taking such a huge risk just to save £300 or so without having the relevant info needed to make an educated decision on which to buy.
I am genuinely interested in one but wouldn't buy one without knowledge or personal reviews off a few people.
Well many sold at 895 euro, we actually sold out so many do trust. Only reason we have reduced the price is due to demand and so making bigger batch volume, that in turn has lowered costs and the end user benefits.
Please note, we make and rebrand parts for many major tuning houses that we are not allowed to share, so many parts out there! Made by Loba just not known..
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I think I would want to know whether it's LOBA internals chucked into an oem pump and then marketed as a LOBA pump, or it's gone through the same precision engineering as the APR unit...
:popcornsoda:
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I think I would want to know whether it's LOBA internals chucked into an oem pump and then marketed as a LOBA pump, or it's gone through the same precision engineering as the APR unit...
:popcornsoda:
The APR pump is still on OEM Hitachi pump.
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I think I would want to know whether it's LOBA internals chucked into an oem pump and then marketed as a LOBA pump, or it's gone through the same precision engineering as the APR unit...
:popcornsoda:
The APR pump is still on OEM Hitachi pump.
Yeah but it's totally reworked... and don't think they hide the fact, i'm sure it still says it on it, would have to check though..
http://www.goapr.co.uk/products/fsi_fuel_pump.html
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Very obversely has no idea of a the engineering involved to produce or test a uprated HPFP or even just make internals.... to make such a statement is funny :signLOL:
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http://www.goapr.co.uk/products/fsi_fuel_pump.html
^^^^ The information about the product on this page linked above is what would give me confidence in choosing which HPFP to choose.
Why Loba appear to be so secretive about the design of what they are offering doesn't inspire my confidence. All I have to go on is Loba's relatively good reputation.
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I see this thread as a How not to market my HPFP so far. :confused:
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I see this thread as a How not to market my HPFP so far. :confused:
....Unfortunately (and I mean that sincerely), I agree.
I'm doing my utmost to be objective here and am genuinely interested in what makes the Loba HPFP as great as Loba are claiming. I want it to be a great pump and not just a great bargain to buy.
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In reality i think there is little difference between the APR/LOBA/Autotech....
You pay your money you takes your choice... they all do the same thing.
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I think where the APR pump comes into its own is its used on many 2.0TFSI race cars around the world such as the Seat Sport and dunlop rqacing series or the 24hr golf Race cars in the states. So its a proven entity in the harshest condition for an engine and i guess you pay for that reassurance on quality and performance.
The Autotech internals havent had any of that, and overtime have proven to fail on many cars after 30-60k.
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I think where the APR pump comes into its own is its used on many 2.0TFSI race cars around the world such as the Seat Sport and dunlop rqacing series or the 24hr golf Race cars in the states. So its a proven entity in the harshest condition for an engine and i guess you pay for that reassurance on quality and performance.
The Autotech internals havent had any of that, and overtime have proven to fail on many cars after 30-60k.
Most probably being fitted to an old pump...
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I think where the APR pump comes into its own is its used on many 2.0TFSI race cars around the world such as the Seat Sport and dunlop rqacing series or the 24hr golf Race cars in the states. So its a proven entity in the harshest condition for an engine and i guess you pay for that reassurance on quality and performance.
Theres no denying that Sy.
We are working with a UK race engine builder and the Loba hpfp's are going in a few BTCC cars this year.
Also our 2.5 Hpfp are being used in the Pirelli world challenge this year.
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I think where the APR pump comes into its own is its used on many 2.0TFSI race cars around the world such as the Seat Sport and dunlop rqacing series or the 24hr golf Race cars in the states. So its a proven entity in the harshest condition for an engine and i guess you pay for that reassurance on quality and performance.
Theres no denying that Sy.
We are working with a UK race engine builder and the Loba hpfp's are going in a few BTCC cars this year.
Also our 2.5 Hpfp are being used in the Pirelli world challenge this year.
:happy2:
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I think where the APR pump comes into its own is its used on many 2.0TFSI race cars around the world such as the Seat Sport and dunlop rqacing series or the 24hr golf Race cars in the states. So its a proven entity in the harshest condition for an engine and i guess you pay for that reassurance on quality and performance.
The Autotech internals havent had any of that, and overtime have proven to fail on many cars after 30-60k.
Most probably being fitted to an old pump...
While smoking crack :wink:
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I think where the APR pump comes into its own is its used on many 2.0TFSI race cars around the world such as the Seat Sport and dunlop rqacing series or the 24hr golf Race cars in the states. So its a proven entity in the harshest condition for an engine and i guess you pay for that reassurance on quality and performance.
The Autotech internals havent had any of that, and overtime have proven to fail on many cars after 30-60k.
Most probably being fitted to an old pump...
While smoking crack :wink:
You really aren't helping your cause here chap. :confused:
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I think where the APR pump comes into its own is its used on many 2.0TFSI race cars around the world such as the Seat Sport and dunlop rqacing series or the 24hr golf Race cars in the states. So its a proven entity in the harshest condition for an engine and i guess you pay for that reassurance on quality and performance.
The Autotech internals havent had any of that, and overtime have proven to fail on many cars after 30-60k.
Most probably being fitted to an old pump...
While smoking crack :wink:
You really aren't helping your cause here chap. :confused:
Read from page 1 .... too much negativeness on here i feel. But i did laugh at this!
895 for the LOBA.... I'm sure those guys smoke crack all day long. LOL
Ill leave you guys to debate. Im out :sad1:
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So they were €895.... now €575.... so €320 euros discount?
So I can only conclude that they were overpriced at €895.... hence the crack smoking comment. :happy2:
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Read from page 1 .... too much negativeness on here i feel.
Ill leave you guys to debate. Im out :sad1:
....Tut-tut! No debate was going on at all - Just polite and genuine questions asking for more information about the Loba HPFP itself rather than how much it costs.
I can only conclude that Loba's representatives need to fine tune and polish up their communication skills if they want to encourage sales of their products to car forum members - A not insignificant market, I would point out.
If I was considering which aftermarket HPFP to buy at this time, I would be extremely disappointed in not being able to learn more information from one (Loba) of only three HPFP producers for my car's platform.
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I've just read from the start so now I see where the crack smoking comment comes from.
Ideally if you are looking to win some friends you would be telling us why these Loba pumps are so good. So far I know nothing about why they are an improvement and what they bring to the party.
I'm out, got some class A to burn. :laugh:.
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I think where the APR pump comes into its own is its used on many 2.0TFSI race cars around the world such as the Seat Sport and dunlop rqacing series or the 24hr golf Race cars in the states. So its a proven entity in the harshest condition for an engine and i guess you pay for that reassurance on quality and performance.
The Autotech internals havent had any of that, and overtime have proven to fail on many cars after 30-60k.
Sorry Sy but that last statement is a little OTT. True, there have been SOME failures, but to say many cars is misleading. There are MANY people running Autotech including myself and are very happy with them.
Regarding the Loba HPFP. I have been lucky enough to see a few already and they are worth the money and if I was a gambling man I'd put my money on the specs of the Loba being higher than the APR offering and being able to flow more if the lpfp side can supply it with fuel.
I'm also lucky enough to see the specs of most of the Loba stuff and know some of the companies background and wouldn't hesitate on using any of their products when the time is right. :smiley:
£500 for the Loba pump is a bargain compared with the APR pump. If I needed to swap I'd definitely be knocking down Loba's door for one.
:smiley:
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Sorry Sy but that last statement is a little OTT. True, there have been SOME failures, but to say many cars is misleading. There are MANY people running Autotech including myself and are very happy with them.
Regarding the Loba HPFP. I have been lucky enough to see a few already and they are worth the money and if I was a gambling man I'd put my money on the specs of the Loba being higher than the APR offering and being able to flow more if the lpfp side can supply it with fuel.
I'm also lucky enough to see the specs of most of the Loba stuff and know some of the companies background and wouldn't hesitate on using any of their products when the time is right. :smiley:
£500 for the Loba pump is a bargain compared with the APR pump. If I needed to swap I'd definitely be knocking down Loba's door for one.:
A little OTT I guess. I also ran the autotech internals on mine with no issues, but I wouldn't do it again.
I see where the guys are coming from though. One company says their pump does x,y&z and is happy to publish test results and construction details. Another says the same but doesnt post any results or details other than it does work.
I see no reason why these details couldn't be posted, its not as if its going to be copied, APR have had those details available for years without anyone copying them!! And I highly doubt APR would copy it when their pump can already flow enough for stage 4 power levels with headroom
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Its not like someone could buy a Loba or APR pump, strip it apart and copy it? Could they? :P
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Its not like someone could buy a Loba or APR pump, strip it apart and copy it? Could they? :P
That would be impossible.... AKS fuel pump here we come! :grin:
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Its not like someone could buy a Loba or APR pump, strip it apart and copy it? Could they? :P
That would be impossible.... AKS fuel pump here we come! :grin:
I will get some stickers made up! :signLOL:
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I think it has to be pointed out that Si could post up a dossier of evidence and individuals who have decided that the world revolves around a certain tuner or their parts would attempt to pull it to pieces anyway :signLOL: Much in the same way if I posted Shark software related stuff the APR & REVO knives would be out, a lot of it laughable quite frankly.
It is all a bit sad really. We went to Autosport a few weeks ago and the amount of bitching going on was unreal, like a big episode of Corrie but a load of blokes in their 30/40's that should quite frankly know better. I have said it before, I'll say it again; I will only ever post about what we CAN do and not what others CAN'T DO.
As I said earlier on in the thread, there are a lot of high powered cars running the LOBA pump (Statllers GTI for example) It has been proved to work and does work. If people don't like the secrecy around how they have made it then as blunt as it sounds, don't buy it. Daruis and the guys at LOBA want to keep it to themselves and that is their choice.
Plenty were sold at the old higher price and more will be sold at the new price. Lets not forget that the APR pump has been around a while and was no doubt questioned as well when it was released.
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Its not like someone could buy a Loba or APR pump, strip it apart and copy it? Could they? :P
That would be impossible.... AKS fuel pump here we come! :grin:
I will get some stickers made up! :signLOL:
:signLOL:
On a serious note though if your paying even the cheaper price you want to know what your buying.
I thought long and hard about the Loba but there just wasn't enough information pertaining to what has been done.
APR is a little too expensive for me.
Autotech have been performing well and I got at a very good price.
I'm lucky that I have the facilities and skill set to do a lot myself.
I will add that every time I have emailed Loba I have had a great response, but the fact is I have had to email for more info, not a problem I suppose but it may put some off.
I think they could put more info without giving the whole game away................ :popcornsoda:
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I think it has to be pointed out that Si could post up a dossier of evidence and individuals who have decided that the world revolves around a certain tuner or their parts would attempt to pull it to pieces anyway :signLOL: Much in the same way if I posted Shark software related stuff the APR & REVO knives would be out, a lot of it laughable quite frankly.
It is all a bit sad really. We went to Autosport a few weeks ago and the amount of bitching going on was unreal, like a big episode of Corrie but a load of blokes in their 30/40's that should quite frankly know better. I have said it before, I'll say it again; I will only ever post about what we CAN do and not what others CAN'T DO.
As I said earlier on in the thread, there are a lot of high powered cars running the LOBA pump (Statllers GTI for example) It has been proved to work and does work. If people don't like the secrecy around how they have made it then as blunt as it sounds, don't buy it. Daruis and the guys at LOBA want to keep it to themselves and that is their choice.
Plenty were sold at the old higher price and more will be sold at the new price. Lets not forget that the APR pump has been around a while and was no doubt questioned as well when it was released.
....I think that you are overreacting - I don't read anyone in this thread trashing Loba's HPFP by claiming that APR's or Autotech's pump is superior. All I read is many folks asking the same question as h4rdy does..............................
On a serious note though if your paying even the cheaper price you want to know what your buying.
I thought long and hard about the Loba but there just wasn't enough information pertaining to what has been done.
APR is a little too expensive for me.
Autotech have been performing well and I got at a very good price.
I'm lucky that I have the facilities and skill set to do a lot myself.
I will add that every time I have emailed Loba I have had a great response, but the fact is I have had to email for more info, not a problem I suppose but it may put some off.
I think they could put more info without giving the whole game away................ :popcornsoda:
....If Loba want to keep it all so secret then so be it, but they better not expect their big stock which they ordered to enable a reduced price, to fly out of the door like hot cakes.
It's very fundamental, regardless of ANY product automotive or otherwise, prospective buyers want information BEFORE they part with their money.
Until Loba stop playing silly games or explain their attitude more fully, my recommendation to anyone considering upgrading their HPFP would be go APR or if money is limited, buy a brand new unused OEM pump and get the Autotech internals fitted by an expert.
C'mon Loba!! Give your prospective buyers some information!! :rolleye:
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In reality LOBA probably bought a APR pump... took it apart and copied it. :innocent:
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I may be wrong here, but I believe APR also refuse to release technical information about their pump. They give the headline capabilities and you have to trust it does what they say. Now, we obviously know it does work and works very well - are we to believe they're the only people in the world capable of this?
Now whilst I've never been a fan of the APR marketing technique of doubling the price and then saying everything else cheaper is sh*t - don't necessarily believe that just because something costs less, it is any less well R&D'd and engineered. I can give you a million examples of a cottage industry producing far superior products than the big names, in any chosen field.
If either company want to rubbish each other's product, then leave them to do it between themselves. I don't know LOBA, I don't own anything LOBA, but if things are going to progress to ease dominance by the few, then it's only a good thing for all.
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I may be wrong here, but I believe APR also refuse to release technical information about their pump. They give the headline capabilities and you have to trust it does what they say. Now, we obviously know it does work and works very well - are we to believe they're the only people in the world capable of this?
....Plenty of technical info made public by APR here, Mike: http://www.goapr.co.uk/products/fsi_fuel_pump.html
If either company want to rubbish each other's product, then leave them to do it between themselves. I don't know LOBA, I don't own anything LOBA, but if things are going to progress to ease dominance by the few, then it's only a good thing for all.
....Agreed about rubbishing - It's a bad trait by whoever does it and always puts me off buying a product. But I see no rubbishing of competitor's products going on in this thread so far.
In order for things to progress and there be more choices of HPFP's, Loba need to be much more informative about their product. Their insistence on secrecy unfortunately fills me with mistrust. Their representative on this forum is doing them no favours.
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Hello APR please can I have the rationale behind your piston design and who manufactures your seals please ......ooh and whist I'm on their phone number.........
CLICK......burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Hello Loba please can I have the rationale behind your piston design and who manufactures your seals please ......ooh and whist I'm on their phone number.........
CLICK......burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Its fair to say getting a pump to flow loads of fuel is not hard, getting it to do it reliably for a six figure mileage more so.
So assembly and seals are the important bit,
FACT:Darius is ex Quattro GMBH on the R & D side so probably knows a supplier or two not just for production car but for one off engines too.............
FACT: Darius is a qualified German Engineer with a workshop you could eat your dinner off the floor
FACT: Loba pumps are well tested
FACT: APR have sold a LOT of pumps with an excellent record for reliability
FACT: APR have had their pumps race tested in a full on Motorsport environment there is no better test.
If I was in the market place for a £500 component that fits in a 4" square box I'd be on the phone to both asking the pertinent questions, there are NO words on here that would sway me one way or the other.
One thing I might say is that if its an internal change only and assuming APRs internals are not Gold plated titanium assembled on the thigh of a Cuban Virgin why are they the price they are? My machine shop manufactures 5 axis for F1 where precision is KEY for reliability I know how much stuff costs to make and one of the questions I would be asking APR would be price justification....The Loba one was expensive but once you've recouped some R&D costs you can bring it down.....did APR forget to?
If the Loba pump gets a foothold and if its a cheaper and works then it will, then APR will either react price wise or sell less pumps. as Mike says its good for the consumer.
APR have obviously got it right technically and some would see great value in that and who could blame them
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I may be wrong here, but I believe APR also refuse to release technical information about their pump. They give the headline capabilities and you have to trust it does what they say. Now, we obviously know it does work and works very well - are we to believe they're the only people in the world capable of this?
....Plenty of technical info made public by APR here, Mike: http://www.goapr.co.uk/products/fsi_fuel_pump.html
If either company want to rubbish each other's product, then leave them to do it between themselves. I don't know LOBA, I don't own anything LOBA, but if things are going to progress to ease dominance by the few, then it's only a good thing for all.
....Agreed about rubbishing - It's a bad trait by whoever does it and always puts me off buying a product. But I see no rubbishing of competitor's products going on in this thread so far.
In order for things to progress and there be more choices of HPFP's, Loba need to be much more informative about their product. Their insistence on secrecy unfortunately fills me with mistrust. Their representative on this forum is doing them no favours.
I don't call that APR page technical data, that's headlines and sales. And rightly so, I wouldn't be sharing my R&D either.
I fear a lot of what LOBA is trying to achieve is being lost in translation, I wouldn't mistrust them, but they do need a guiding hand on how to deal with the UK market.
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I think it has to be pointed out that Si could post up a dossier of evidence and individuals who have decided that the world revolves around a certain tuner or their parts would attempt to pull it to pieces anyway :signLOL: Much in the same way if I posted Shark software related stuff the APR & REVO knives would be out, a lot of it laughable quite frankly.
It is all a bit sad really. We went to Autosport a few weeks ago and the amount of bitching going on was unreal, like a big episode of Corrie but a load of blokes in their 30/40's that should quite frankly know better. I have said it before, I'll say it again; I will only ever post about what we CAN do and not what others CAN'T DO.
As I said earlier on in the thread, there are a lot of high powered cars running the LOBA pump (Statllers GTI for example) It has been proved to work and does work. If people don't like the secrecy around how they have made it then as blunt as it sounds, don't buy it. Daruis and the guys at LOBA want to keep it to themselves and that is their choice.
Plenty were sold at the old higher price and more will be sold at the new price. Lets not forget that the APR pump has been around a while and was no doubt questioned as well when it was released.
....I think that you are overreacting - I don't read anyone in this thread trashing Loba's HPFP by claiming that APR's or Autotech's pump is superior. All I read is many folks asking the same question as h4rdy does..............................
On a serious note though if your paying even the cheaper price you want to know what your buying.
I thought long and hard about the Loba but there just wasn't enough information pertaining to what has been done.
APR is a little too expensive for me.
Autotech have been performing well and I got at a very good price.
I'm lucky that I have the facilities and skill set to do a lot myself.
I will add that every time I have emailed Loba I have had a great response, but the fact is I have had to email for more info, not a problem I suppose but it may put some off.
I think they could put more info without giving the whole game away................ :popcornsoda:
....If Loba want to keep it all so secret then so be it, but they better not expect their big stock which they ordered to enable a reduced price, to fly out of the door like hot cakes.
It's very fundamental, regardless of ANY product automotive or otherwise, prospective buyers want information BEFORE they part with their money.
Until Loba stop playing silly games or explain their attitude more fully, my recommendation to anyone considering upgrading their HPFP would be go APR or if money is limited, buy a brand new unused OEM pump and get the Autotech internals fitted by an expert.
C'mon Loba!! Give your prospective buyers some information!! :rolleye:
I'm not really sure how you came to the conclusion that I was over reacting? I was making light of the discussion to be honest.
I will post our feedback on the LOBA pump when we fit it to our GTI in the spring.
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I will only ever post about what we CAN do and not what others CAN'T DO.
That is an excellent mantra that others should follow. :happy2:
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Hello everyone!
Thanks for the kind words about our fuel pump upgrade. It is without a doubt one of my favorite products that we offer. The amount of time and R&D put into it resulted in one of the largest and most complicated efforts we have taken on.
Before I post any pump specific info, I would first like to talk about transparency. Transparency means to me that as a company and as members of the enthusiast community, you have a responsibility to your clients to present your findings and justify your pricing and design solutions. The reason APR feels this way is because we are very proud of our products and we are confident that we can put them up against the most severe and stringent automotive engineering principles and philosophies and they will be accepted and in most cases praised by our contemporaries and colleagues as well as our competition. We also feel we have a responsibility to educate our fellow enthusiasts and answer all questions or concerns about why we have chosen to do what we have done.
That being said, I can't for the life of me understand why other companies would choose to not do this. There is very little if any secrecy or trade secrets left in the global economy, especially in reference to automotive engineering. Automotive engineers move between companies very frequently and even though there are non-compete and non-disclosure agreements, if you ask one of them to design a high pressure fuel pump or any other part they have designed before, well, there is no way they can just forget the things they've learned at their previous employers. Short of listing the suppliers and the specs for the design, you aren't really making it any easier for your competition if you talk about what characteristics you've included in your products. Hell, they'll just buy one. If the product isn't released however, sure, secrecy is required so your competition can't come to market before or around the same time you do with a similar product.
Just my 2 pence.
Moving on to the APR pump I would say there are certain key elements that any pump manufacturer needs to include in their product in order to accomplish reliability and hassle free operation:
1. (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.goapr.com%2Fincludes%2Fimg%2Fproducts%2Ffuel_pump_parts.jpg&hash=14bf9f58b076f77ddea5c0300c196de0704e27ee)
I don't think in everything that we learned that you can include less than these parts and accomplish what we do.
2. (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.goapr.com%2Fincludes%2Fimg%2Fproducts%2Ffsi_pump_machine_external.jpg&hash=13153451e9337cd181c975a6d5fdac661a06450f)
A test rig. I don't think its possible to insure quality and proper running in of the new parts without one of these.
3. Coatings on the Barrel and Plunger. I don't think its possible to insure long life and reliable operation if you don't use a particular coating of a specific type that is unable to be recreated less expensively than the one we use. For example, the coating VW uses on the cam follower is the next closest lower cost coating available to what we use and we are all familiar with the coating problems VW suffers on cam followers.
4. Tolerance between the Barrel and Plunger and manufacturing them as matched sets. I don't think you can prevent seizures or other issues unless you can recreate a microscopic tolerance between these two parts. You can't use Plungers and Barrels manufactured and matched separately as they won't be able to consistently repeat the tolerances. The machine that measures the tolerances of our pumps is so precise that its only found in the aerospace, military and medical industries. Its more precise than laser measurements and works by blowing a measured amount of air in between the two parts and measures what comes out on the other side in order to give you the distance between the two parts. This machine costs around 3mil GBP.
There are other finer points regarding the included parts such as the right kind of seals to use, the tensile strength of the new spring, etc. but I won't bore you with those details.
If the company making your HPFP does all of the above, its easy for them to relay this to you with pictures, videos, specs, data, etc. We won't be the only ones doing the above as there are some more HPFP's coming to market in 2013 from competitors that are made similar to our recipe. There could be some available today that are made this way but I guess we will never know since the companies are so worried about their "secrets".
Cheers!
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and going back through the thread I see some people wish to inquire with more technical questions....
Please feel free to do so. I won't give you the name of the suppliers but I will explain what those suppliers provide and why. Somebody mentioned seals....
The seals we use are fluoropolymer spring energized and balanced ring.
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Refreshing attitude Keith :congrats:, my employer has a whole team looking a transparency :happy2:
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Full marks on engaging the debate Keith
Out of professional courtesy Im going to be extremely polite on the matter of the 3 Million GBP machine Keith
Name and model number of the machine please
...I was at one of the most accomplished Machine shops in the North West of England this afternoon supplying Rolls Royce Derby/F1 teams/MESM (an experimental clinical trials company) and running MAZAK 5 axis machines straight out of Japan and there's lots and lots of very raised eyebrows at that figure.
At (an assumed) £50 per pump that's 60,000 pumps even for a global company like APR that's a lot of pumps and a lot of testing I'm assuming you're batch testing and not testing every pump in which case what's the batch rate? In which case every pump doesn't get tested
60,000 pumps taking 45 minutes per pump is 45,000 hours and the average American doing 40 hours per week with 4 weeks leave that's 25 guys in a room assembling pumps all day......that's with no lunch...
in the interests of the aforementioned transparency can we have a little more info on the machine please, I'll happily eat humble pie and apologise publicly for being a doubting Thomas.
Or are they assembled off shore?
the product obviously works......very well....and APR should be applauded for turning out a good bit of kit, I'm hoping that the Sales and Marketing machine standard replies don't overshadow the product
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:popcornsoda:
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Appreciate the reply Keith, even if I think a lot of that came from the US book of sales jargon. Nobody has questioned the APR pumps quality, I don't think there is any doubting that at all.
I have actually run the Autotech before as well and I had no issues at all but I appreciate that going down that route has its obvious pitfalls. That is why we are really looking forward to testing the LOBA pump ourselves, on our £320k 2005 Volkswagen Golf :signLOL: (Joking)
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^^^^
Many thanks for a very informative post, Keith :happy2:
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The only thing missing from this thread so far is Teutonic Tamer. :evilgrin:
So if your listening TT. :pomppomp:
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Is anyone else getting bored of this?
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Full marks on engaging the debate Keith
Out of professional courtesy Im going to be extremely polite on the matter of the 3 Million GBP machine Keith
Name and model number of the machine please
...I was at one of the most accomplished Machine shops in the North West of England this afternoon supplying Rolls Royce Derby/F1 teams/MESM (an experimental clinical trials company) and running MAZAK 5 axis machines straight out of Japan and there's lots and lots of very raised eyebrows at that figure.
At (an assumed) £50 per pump that's 60,000 pumps even for a global company like APR that's a lot of pumps and a lot of testing I'm assuming you're batch testing and not testing every pump in which case what's the batch rate? In which case every pump doesn't get tested
60,000 pumps taking 45 minutes per pump is 45,000 hours and the average American doing 40 hours per week with 4 weeks leave that's 25 guys in a room assembling pumps all day......that's with no lunch...
in the interests of the aforementioned transparency can we have a little more info on the machine please, I'll happily eat humble pie and apologise publicly for being a doubting Thomas.
Or are they assembled off shore?
the product obviously works......very well....and APR should be applauded for turning out a good bit of kit, I'm hoping that the Sales and Marketing machine standard replies don't overshadow the product
This is brilliant...
well and trully caught out APR.
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Like I said, Loba always reply promptly to any questions and usually answer every one of them.
I'll hopefully be buying something off them this year and I may even change my pump to the Loba one if a little more info can be squeezed.
Great thread though guys.
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I must say that APR support sucks. Im two times write them email and never receive any response. When Im contact one of their dealer(Tom from APTuning) on other forum Im imediately receive response but he can't answer me on my questions and redirect me directly to APR(Where I didn't get answers)... This has been main reason why I didn't buy APR downpipe and Im buy B&B downpipe(Which is same), why didn't buy APR HPFP and Im take Autotech internals+new OEM HPFP and why I didn't make APR ECU&DSG Stage 2+ remap and I will go REVO ECU&DSG Stage2+ remap...
For me is customer support main thing and APR's one is very bad...
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.
Last year I needed an aftermarket HPFP to cure my relatively minor fuelling issues so I took JKM's advice and steered clear of the Autotech internals and bought an APR. There wasn't a Loba choice at the time but as they are so reluctant to say how their pump is different or supposedly the best, I would only have bought a Loba if JKM had advised me to - JKM would have told me why the Loba was better in their opinion - That's if they had the opportunity to form an opinion but Loba's lips are sealed!
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At (an assumed) £50 per pump that's 60,000 pumps even for a global company like APR that's a lot of pumps and a lot of testing I'm assuming you're batch testing and not testing every pump in which case what's the batch rate? In which case every pump doesn't get tested
60,000 pumps taking 45 minutes per pump is 45,000 hours and the average American doing 40 hours per week with 4 weeks leave that's 25 guys in a room assembling pumps all day......that's with no lunch...
I see where you are coming from but I dont see where APR have said that they have recovered costs on this $3mil test rig, so assuming they have and stating that would require 60,000 pumps is irrelevant.
They might well have only sold 10,000 pumps, 5000 pumps or even 1000 pumps who knows which renders that theory null and void. Theres alot of assumptions being made there, they might not even be close to recovering that cost, plus if they are only selling minor quantities then testing of each could be possible, but i dont know, thats just an assumption as well :laugh:
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.
Last year I needed an aftermarket HPFP to cure my relatively minor fuelling issues so I took JKM's advice and steered clear of the Autotech internals and bought an APR. There wasn't a Loba choice at the time but as they are so reluctant to say how their pump is different or supposedly the best, I would only have bought a Loba if JKM had advised me to - JKM would have told me why the Loba was better in their opinion - That's if they had the opportunity to form an opinion but Loba's lips are sealed!
I'm sorry but your really starting to get on my tits!
Why would a company who have a product, thought about it them selfs (in terms of the bits they wanted to add or upgrade), done research built the thing etc then come on here and reply to your question of how its different to exact detail spec and items upgraded and replaced.... ?
You seriously have no business brain.
Apr are flavour of the month this time next year someone else will be flavour.
I'm not a huge purchaser of LOBA items i have recently bought the clutch and flywheel and the delivery, service and after care has been amazing, emails are replied to within mins at all times of the day from Simon, my next purchase from them will be a pump based purely on the service and the quality of the items i have previously bought not because everyone "Says" they are amazing.
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At (an assumed) £50 per pump that's 60,000 pumps even for a global company like APR that's a lot of pumps and a lot of testing I'm assuming you're batch testing and not testing every pump in which case what's the batch rate? In which case every pump doesn't get tested
60,000 pumps taking 45 minutes per pump is 45,000 hours and the average American doing 40 hours per week with 4 weeks leave that's 25 guys in a room assembling pumps all day......that's with no lunch...
I see where you are coming from but I dont see where APR have said that they have recovered costs on this $3mil test rig, so assuming they have and stating that would require 60,000 pumps is irrelevant.
They might well have only sold 10,000 pumps, 5000 pumps or even 1000 pumps who knows which renders that theory null and void. Theres alot of assumptions being made there, they might not even be close to recovering that cost, plus if they are only selling minor quantities then testing of each could be possible, but i dont know, thats just an assumption as well :laugh:
Si
I'm fully expecting to apologise and yes loads of assumptions made I'm not privvy to the internal workings of APR.
But a 5 Million USD (Not 3million USD) piece of test equipment is a MAJOR investment for BP never mind a succesful LLC from Alibama. I would foresee that if the test kit is that price then I would suggest that its the people that Machine for APR's machine and not APR themselves......
But from a sales and marketing point of view that's NOWHERE near as sexy sounding as how it reads above.
Again the APR pumps good and if the Loba pump is as good they've still got a lot of catching up to do by no other virtue of the fact that the APR item is well established.
Its just sometimes the Bullsh*tometer hits the opposite needle and here we are discussing that rather than the many happy pump customers APR have globally.....
I don't want to fall out with anybody....but let's not profess to be transparent whilst p1ssing in my pocket and telling me its raining
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At (an assumed) £50 per pump that's 60,000 pumps even for a global company like APR that's a lot of pumps and a lot of testing I'm assuming you're batch testing and not testing every pump in which case what's the batch rate? In which case every pump doesn't get tested
60,000 pumps taking 45 minutes per pump is 45,000 hours and the average American doing 40 hours per week with 4 weeks leave that's 25 guys in a room assembling pumps all day......that's with no lunch...
I see where you are coming from but I dont see where APR have said that they have recovered costs on this $3mil test rig, so assuming they have and stating that would require 60,000 pumps is irrelevant.
They might well have only sold 10,000 pumps, 5000 pumps or even 1000 pumps who knows which renders that theory null and void. Theres alot of assumptions being made there, they might not even be close to recovering that cost, plus if they are only selling minor quantities then testing of each could be possible, but i dont know, thats just an assumption as well :laugh:
Si
I'm fully expecting to apologise and yes loads of assumptions made I'm not privvy to the internal workings of APR.
But a 5 Million USD (Not 3million USD) piece of test equipment is a MAJOR investment for BP never mind a succesful LLC from Alibama. I would foresee that if the test kit is that price then I would suggest that its the people that Machine for APR's machine and not APR themselves......
But from a sales and marketing point of view that's NOWHERE near as sexy sounding as how it reads above.
Again the APR pumps good and if the Loba pump is as good they've still got a lot of catching up to do by no other virtue of the fact that the APR item is well established.
Its just sometimes the Bullsh*tometer hits the opposite needle and here we are discussing that rather than the many happy pump customers APR have globally.....
I don't want to fall out with anybody....but let's not profess to be transparent whilst p1ssing in my pocket and telling me its raining
:signLOL:
Agree with all that, very well put.
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I'm sorry but your really starting to get on my tits!
....Really? Simply because I have shared my opinions in this discussion?
Why would a company who have a product, thought about it them selfs (in terms of the bits they wanted to add or upgrade), done research built the thing etc then come on here and reply to your question of how its different to exact detail spec and items upgraded and replaced.... ?
....Have you read the posts in this thread in which others apart from myself have voiced their disappointment in Loba's attitude about saying nothing about their product?
Why should they answer such questions? - Simply because potential customers ask such questions and the answers will influence their choice of purchase.
You seriously have no business brain.
....Really? Then I wonder how on earth I managed to successfully run my own limited company business based in Chelsea, London for over 25 years and with blue-chip company clients and international projects.
Apr are flavour of the month this time next year someone else will be flavour.
I'm not a huge purchaser of LOBA items i have recently bought the clutch and flywheel and the delivery, service and after care has been amazing, emails are replied to within mins at all times of the day from Simon, my next purchase from them will be a pump based purely on the service and the quality of the items i have previously bought not because everyone "Says" they are amazing.
....I respect that you personally have had extremely satisfactory service from Loba and also your contribution to this discussion in sharing your good experiences. I am not questioning that aspect.
In marketing a product, any organisation with a good "business brain" (as you describe it) understands that their product's sales success will be due partly to how it can be DIFFERENTIATED from its competitor's similar products. Now do you understand or do you still have itchy tits?
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Full marks on engaging the debate Keith
Out of professional courtesy Im going to be extremely polite on the matter of the 3 Million GBP machine Keith
Name and model number of the machine please
...I was at one of the most accomplished Machine shops in the North West of England this afternoon supplying Rolls Royce Derby/F1 teams/MESM (an experimental clinical trials company) and running MAZAK 5 axis machines straight out of Japan and there's lots and lots of very raised eyebrows at that figure.
At (an assumed) £50 per pump that's 60,000 pumps even for a global company like APR that's a lot of pumps and a lot of testing I'm assuming you're batch testing and not testing every pump in which case what's the batch rate? In which case every pump doesn't get tested
60,000 pumps taking 45 minutes per pump is 45,000 hours and the average American doing 40 hours per week with 4 weeks leave that's 25 guys in a room assembling pumps all day......that's with no lunch...
in the interests of the aforementioned transparency can we have a little more info on the machine please, I'll happily eat humble pie and apologise publicly for being a doubting Thomas.
Or are they assembled off shore?
the product obviously works......very well....and APR should be applauded for turning out a good bit of kit, I'm hoping that the Sales and Marketing machine standard replies don't overshadow the product
I'm sorry. I think you are confused. We don't have that machine and its at a company that does the measurements for us. We looked at buying the machine ourselves and yeah, we were quoted $5mil. Its not a CNC machine, its a measurement machine used by the medical manufacturing industry.
Hope this helps.
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Appreciate the reply Keith, even if I think a lot of that came from the US book of sales jargon. Nobody has questioned the APR pumps quality, I don't think there is any doubting that at all.
I have actually run the Autotech before as well and I had no issues at all but I appreciate that going down that route has its obvious pitfalls. That is why we are really looking forward to testing the LOBA pump ourselves, on our £320k 2005 Volkswagen Golf :signLOL: (Joking)
Definition of JARGON
1
a : confused unintelligible language
b : a strange, outlandish, or barbarous language or dialect
c : a hybrid language or dialect simplified in vocabulary and grammar and used for communication between peoples of different speech
2
: the technical terminology or characteristic idiom of a special activity or group
3
: obscure and often pretentious language marked by circumlocutions and long words
Jargon you say? Reread my post and I can't find any. :P
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Full marks on engaging the debate Keith
Out of professional courtesy Im going to be extremely polite on the matter of the 3 Million GBP machine Keith
Name and model number of the machine please
...I was at one of the most accomplished Machine shops in the North West of England this afternoon supplying Rolls Royce Derby/F1 teams/MESM (an experimental clinical trials company) and running MAZAK 5 axis machines straight out of Japan and there's lots and lots of very raised eyebrows at that figure.
At (an assumed) £50 per pump that's 60,000 pumps even for a global company like APR that's a lot of pumps and a lot of testing I'm assuming you're batch testing and not testing every pump in which case what's the batch rate? In which case every pump doesn't get tested
60,000 pumps taking 45 minutes per pump is 45,000 hours and the average American doing 40 hours per week with 4 weeks leave that's 25 guys in a room assembling pumps all day......that's with no lunch...
in the interests of the aforementioned transparency can we have a little more info on the machine please, I'll happily eat humble pie and apologise publicly for being a doubting Thomas.
Or are they assembled off shore?
the product obviously works......very well....and APR should be applauded for turning out a good bit of kit, I'm hoping that the Sales and Marketing machine standard replies don't overshadow the product
This is brilliant...
well and trully caught out APR.
Not at all I'm afraid. I think people need to read more closely to what is actually said before making accusations, no?
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Appreciate the reply Keith, even if I think a lot of that came from the US book of sales jargon. Nobody has questioned the APR pumps quality, I don't think there is any doubting that at all.
I have actually run the Autotech before as well and I had no issues at all but I appreciate that going down that route has its obvious pitfalls. That is why we are really looking forward to testing the LOBA pump ourselves, on our £320k 2005 Volkswagen Golf :signLOL: (Joking)
Definition of JARGON
1
a : confused unintelligible language
b : a strange, outlandish, or barbarous language or dialect
c : a hybrid language or dialect simplified in vocabulary and grammar and used for communication between peoples of different speech
2
: the technical terminology or characteristic idiom of a special activity or group
3
: obscure and often pretentious language marked by circumlocutions and long words
Jargon you say? Reread my post and I can't find any. :P
Very clever :driver:
You know precisely what I meant.
I'm not going to argue with you, I refuse. APR has nothing to do with my business and never will but LOBA does so it is only natural I will back Si up when he is being hammered for not posting info LOBA have decided not to share.
Like I have said previously, as harsh as it sounds, if people don't like LOBA's stance on the pump then don't buy it. The proof for the LOBA pump will come over time when hundreds of people use them without issue.
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Appreciate the reply Keith, even if I think a lot of that came from the US book of sales jargon. Nobody has questioned the APR pumps quality, I don't think there is any doubting that at all.
I have actually run the Autotech before as well and I had no issues at all but I appreciate that going down that route has its obvious pitfalls. That is why we are really looking forward to testing the LOBA pump ourselves, on our £320k 2005 Volkswagen Golf :signLOL: (Joking)
Definition of JARGON
1
a : confused unintelligible language
b : a strange, outlandish, or barbarous language or dialect
c : a hybrid language or dialect simplified in vocabulary and grammar and used for communication between peoples of different speech
2
: the technical terminology or characteristic idiom of a special activity or group
3
: obscure and often pretentious language marked by circumlocutions and long words
Jargon you say? Reread my post and I can't find any. :P
Very clever :driver:
You know precisely what I meant.
I'm not going to argue with you, I refuse. APR has nothing to do with my business and never will but LOBA does so it is only natural I will back Si up when he is being hammered for not posting info LOBA have decided not to share.
Like I have said previously, as harsh as it sounds, if people don't like LOBA's stance on the pump then don't buy it. The proof for the LOBA pump will come over time when hundreds of people use them without issue.
I hope you don't think I am trying to argue with you. I am making fun of the situation like you were. :)
Seriously though, I really don't see any sales or marketing spin in my post. Everything I've written is from an engineering perspective of what we have found to work and explains to people how to determine for themselves if the pump they are looking at buying has all of the features and benefits of ours.
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I'm not going to argue with you, I refuse. APR has nothing to do with my business and never will but LOBA does so it is only natural I will back Si up when he is being hammered for not posting info LOBA have decided not to share.
Like I have said previously, as harsh as it sounds, if people don't like LOBA's stance on the pump then don't buy it. The proof for the LOBA pump will come over time when hundreds of people use them without issue.
Which basically says that everything you post is therefore biased and also sales jargon then :confused:
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Seriously though, I really don't see any sales or marketing spin in my post. Everything I've written is from an engineering perspective of what we have found to work and explains to people how to determine for themselves if the pump they are looking at buying has all of the features and benefits of ours.
....And I found it very informative and useful technical information - It gives me even more confidence in my APR HPFP, as does your web page about the pump:
http://www.goapr.co.uk/products/fsi_fuel_pump.html
If this was 6 months ago and the Loba pump had become available then I would have been extremely disappointed in Loba's lack of published information to help me make a choice and it would have put me off buying theirs.
This isn't a case of one pump being 'better' than another but being able to make an informed choice to decide which to buy. Which is doubtless what everyone considering to buy an aftermarket HPFP would value.
I take notice of brand reputations but I don't have any brand loyalties (apart from Milltek) - I just want what's best for my beloved car. Don't we all?
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Seriously though, I really don't see any sales or marketing spin in my post. Everything I've written is from an engineering perspective of what we have found to work and explains to people how to determine for themselves if the pump they are looking at buying has all of the features and benefits of ours.
....And I found it very informative and useful technical information - It gives me even more confidence in my APR HPFP, as does your web page about the pump:
http://www.goapr.co.uk/products/fsi_fuel_pump.html
If this was 6 months ago and the Loba pump had become available then I would have been extremely disappointed in Loba's lack of published information to help me make a choice and it would have put me off buying theirs.
This isn't a case of one pump being 'better' than another but being able to make an informed choice to decide which to buy. Which is doubtless what everyone considering to buy an aftermarket HPFP would value.
I take notice of brand reputations but I don't have any brand loyalties (apart from Milltek) - I just want what's best for my beloved car. Don't we all?
I have to agree with you RR. I just wanted some information that will help me make an informed decision which APR seem more than happy to do so but LOBA won't :s
Like people have said... Other pump manufacturers could go and buy a LOBA pump and then strip it down and find out lots of information so it's never going to stay a secret so I don't know why LOBA can't give these bits of information now.
I'm more than happy to go and buy a LOBA pump if I was given more information than a cheap price.
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.goapr.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F01%2Fmatched-sets.jpg.jpeg&hash=66107e7f0c524b8795b43e6153fde2a0dcca39a0)
Here is what the piston and barrel look like when they arrive at our facility. Each one is a matched set with the tolerances listed on the packaging. We blurred that out for this pic though as we don't want others to know what tolerances we accomplish. However, we do have plans to release this info in the future.
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I'm not going to argue with you, I refuse. APR has nothing to do with my business and never will but LOBA does so it is only natural I will back Si up when he is being hammered for not posting info LOBA have decided not to share.
Like I have said previously, as harsh as it sounds, if people don't like LOBA's stance on the pump then don't buy it. The proof for the LOBA pump will come over time when hundreds of people use them without issue.
Which basically says that everything you post is therefore biased and also sales jargon then :confused:
:confused: I own a Mk5 GTI
I'm not getting any more into it. I just commented to back up Simon and LOBA as I am a big fan of their work. Simple as that. We could bicker until the cows come home, it won't get any of us anywhere so I won't comment again :happy2:
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This started off as a good thread, but has finally descended into the usual XXX v's YYY.
Full disclosure is not in the interest of any company. A company will always seek to protect its interests and keep its investments safe, whether informational or product specifications or processes. It is how they survive in a competitive market.
You may as well ask them to put a gun to their own heads, their products will hopefully have a USP ( unique selling point ) that ( as RedRobin pointed out) will differentiate their product to give them an edge against the competition.
All good companies will have a policy that will prevent their employees from disclosing anything that a competitor could take advantage of and that is all that these guys on here are doing......protecting their companies interests.
So fellow forumites please don't continue with your attempts at extracting information of a sensitive nature from professionals that are bound by their companies policies as it will end up like this thread......full of keyboard frippery.
frip·per·y
/ˈfripərē/
Noun
Showy or unnecessary ornament in architecture, dress, or language.
A tawdry or frivolous thing.
Thank you everyone and in the words of the Dragon's Den
I'm out!. :laugh:
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Well as a potential HPFP buyer I have to say I'm currently wayyyy more inclined to go with the APR HPFP than anything else.
:happy2:
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Why because He or she says its great after a day!
Make a decision based more on proper service instead of APR being in the gang hut this week!!
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Well as a potential HPFP buyer I have to say I'm currently wayyyy more inclined to go with the APR HPFP than anything else.
:happy2:
I'm in the same boat here really and no it's not because someone has said the APR pump is the best thing since sliced bread after just a couple days or whatever but simply because they're happy giving me information and answering questions and also out of all the people I have met with similar car to me have had the Autotech or APR and even though both have had quite a good review in each case I feel more comfortable going with a full unit instead of internals, mainly due to me being advised that they work area needs to be spotless when fitting the internals for obvious reasons so the safest option in my eyes is going to be the APR even if it is priced a lot higher than the alternatives but I just want a good but safe result from it all in the end
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APR supply the SEAT Sport pumps for WTCC etc... Thats enough for me to be sold
I like to buy stuff thats tried and tested, Apparently the Loba ones will be used in BTCC this year, Guessing Rob Austin's car's? well see how well they get on.
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Any updates on uprated HPFP ?
Feedback from APR, Autotech and Loba HPFP users ?
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Any updates on uprated HPFP ?
Feedback from APR, Autotech and Loba HPFP users ?
I have had APR and are currently running the LOBA, zero issues with both but i am very pleased with the LOBA unit which are able to deliver higher pressure than the APR unit :)
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Running the loba pump for 4 months now and alls good, it seems the preferred choice over on the R forum :happy2:
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Running the loba pump for 4 months now and alls good, it seems the preferred choice over on the R forum :happy2:
Anyone having experience with the Integrated engineering pump?
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I run autotech internals installed on new HPFP around 2 years without issue. 2 years Im use it with Stage 1 remap(If I remember right with rail pressure 110 or 120 bar) and now two weeks with Stage 3 with rail pressure over 130bar ...
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Any updates on uprated HPFP ?
Feedback from APR, Autotech and Loba HPFP users ?
I have had APR and are currently running the LOBA, zero issues with both but i am very pleased with the LOBA unit which are able to deliver higher pressure than the APR unit :)
What kind of pressure is the Loba pump making compared to the APR?
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Any updates on uprated HPFP ?
Feedback from APR, Autotech and Loba HPFP users ?
I have had APR and are currently running the LOBA, zero issues with both but i am very pleased with the LOBA unit which are able to deliver higher pressure than the APR unit :)
What kind of pressure is the Loba pump making compared to the APR?
I know the LOBA is good for 155bar
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I know the LOBA is good for 155bar
At what rpm produce this pressure?
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I know the LOBA is good for 155bar
At what rpm produce this pressure?
Niki from R-tech has more info on this :)