MK5 Golf GTI
General => Random Chat => Topic started by: bigmig95 on October 11, 2012, 11:43:12 am
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Any thoughts, any ex road racers, current roadies, mountain bike lads or non cyclist wish to comment on the current saga on how he's got away with it for so long while a large percentage of his rivals were slowly banned one after each other for being on the gear.
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Difference is he is still denying it. The other have confessed.
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I find it a very sad state of affairs.
My only question is why when he was competing did they not test him positive. He was supposedly the most tested athlete on the planet at one point so how could he be missed.
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I'm an ex Time Triallist and had a custom-built Condor capable of winning the Tour de France, but I wasn't!!
I've enthusiastically followed the Tour and am very disappointed if Lance Armstrong has cheated and I think it's now beyond any doubt.
This is the latest: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19903716
I have to say that the USADA appear to be on a mission to prove drug abuse whether true or not. The variety of substances found in a body can be very complex.
Hypothetical question :
- If someone had been using EPO 5 years before it was banned then is it cheating?
i.e. if it doesn't contravene the rules of the day then is it ok or not?
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Well I suppose it wouldn't be classed as cheating... but it doesnt demonstrate good sportsmanship.
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I too can't quite get over the fact that he was tested so much and not caught. This does swing in Lances favour, however the evidence of teamates (and so many of them) tips the argument against Lane :rolleye:
I used to Road race, time trial and ride cyclo cross in the 90's and wonder how far back all this goes. Commentators who were ex pros in the 70's and 80's all seem tight lipped about things.
Bradley Wiggins has spoken about the pressures involved to perform to the highest level and how salaries can be cut if performances are not as good as expected. The temptation and pressure on some riders to take something to help them must be immense particularly as carreers can be short and you need to earn as much as you can in as short a time window as possible.
My autographed picture on the stairs of him is slowly going down in value and might get put in loft :sad1:
Nice bike Condors Robin. You wouldn't want to be time trialling down the local bypass now though mate as there's some right nutters in Mk5's about.
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I think the first time any form of blood doping was used was Francesco Moser's world hour record where they removed blood and pumped it back into him. I can't remember if they just used red blood cells or whole blood but it was deemed legal at the time only because no one else had thought about doing it.
Steroid abuse was rife but folk only got fined and a short ban. I remember the whole Festina team getting thrown out the tour and Richard Virenque getting caught and he was back racing the following year.
Cycling has a shocking history regarding drugs but is this not down to how far the people push and the as said the pressure for results. I can only hope that the current crop of stars such as Bradley Wiggins and Mark Cavendish are clean although that didn't stop the comment by one of the BBC News team asking what drugs he was on. :fighting: :fighting:
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One of my old uni tutors had an interestin view on this sort of thing:
What is the definition of a performance enhancing substance? In simple terms, it's a substance that enhances performance! So - is water a performance enhancing substance? Lucozade? Where do you draw the line to say that this is "natural" and this isn't? If you deprived cyclists of water, they'd perform worse.
I personally feel that everything should be allowed and that way there's a level playing field. Sportsmen are adults. They are well aware of the dangers of performance enhancing substances and if they want to take them and risk their long term health for the sport that is up to them. (in my opinion, it's not any different to rugby and football players risking injury on the field, racing drivers risking accidents etc.) As far as I'm concerned, that would be more entertaining for the spectators than the witch hunts that happen years after an event.
As an interesting side note, there is a gentleman (whose name eludes me at the minute) who was adviser to a lot of top class bodybuilders. As I'm sure you're aware, bodybuilding allows the use of many IOC banned substances. The nickname of this particular gentleman is "The Chemist". He makes no claims to be a personal trainer, nutritionist or anything else. His current client is Usain Bolt. Make of that what you will.
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All his team mates are cheats and have been given sweeteners to 'confess' all!
He has done a lot for cancer charity, does that cancel it out?
He is still adamant he didn't cheat.
Surely somebody who denies it that much in the face of adversity......................?
Its a shame that pretty much all of them in that era cheated.
Have you seen the dilemma of who to give the Tour wins to? Its like 7th place or something :signLOL:
Also just to note, you don't just take these 'roids and become the Tour de France winner, in fact you probably have to train harder. It enables you too because of the faster recovery rates.
That doesn't make it right.
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As an interesting side note, there is a gentleman (whose name eludes me at the minute) who was adviser to a lot of top class bodybuilders. As I'm sure you're aware, bodybuilding allows the use of many IOC banned substances. The nickname of this particular gentleman is "The Chemist". He makes no claims to be a personal trainer, nutritionist or anything else. His current client is Usain Bolt. Make of that what you will.
Is this the Michele Ferrari chap?
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I honestly can't remember. It was quite an underground bit of information from a quite a few bodybuilding sources but I can't seem to find the answer atm
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Also just to note, you don't just take these 'roids and become the Tour de France winner, in fact you probably have to train harder. It enables you too because of the faster recovery rates.
That doesn't make it right.
This is nothing as primitive as Steroids EPO is a blood doping substance to increase the amount of red blood cells and subsequently oxygen available to the muscles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythropoietin
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Also just to note, you don't just take these 'roids and become the Tour de France winner, in fact you probably have to train harder. It enables you too because of the faster recovery rates.
That doesn't make it right.
This is nothing as primitive as Steroids EPO is a blood doping substance to increase the amount of red blood cells and subsequently oxygen available to the muscles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythropoietin
Yes I agree. I was just making the point that you still have to train extremely hard its still not a walk in the park on a sunny day. :signLOL:
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A bit of a long read but interesting:
http://www.outsideonline.com/fitness/Drug-Test.html?page=all
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As an interesting side note, there is a gentleman (whose name eludes me at the minute) who was adviser to a lot of top class bodybuilders. As I'm sure you're aware, bodybuilding allows the use of many IOC banned substances. The nickname of this particular gentleman is "The Chemist". He makes no claims to be a personal trainer, nutritionist or anything else. His current client is Usain Bolt. Make of that what you will.
Is this the Michele Ferrari chap?
I'm not sure the more well known Dr Ferrari found here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michele_Ferrari (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michele_Ferrari) would be associated with Usain Bolt, now that would be headline news more likely another guy ?. Dr Ferrari has been associated with lots of top class cyclists over the years and has since been banned. Could have done with a GP like him when I was racing, might have some side effects now but would have won more races :rolleye:
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A bit of a long read but interesting:
http://www.outsideonline.com/fitness/Drug-Test.html?page=all
The drive and pressure to win has caused some guys to pay the ultimate price. I remember the spate of young riders dying in their sleep as mentioned in the link Robin put on from taking EPO. The drug thickens the blood with the increased red blood cell count. Once asleep the heart rate lowers and in some the heart cannot pump the thickened blood causing heart attacks during sleep. Very sad.
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Blokes a cheat and it mares all the competitions which he entered where others were not cheating (that's probably not very many from his days)
I (like many) followed and cheered Armstrong on when he was winning all those tours. I was amazed at his ability to overcome that hatful disease Cancer and rise to the very pinnacle of the hardest endurance event there is. To find out, he cheated and still denies it after his teammates and everyone has said that not only was he involved but the instigator has made this all a very sad affair.
If this had been anyone other than Armstrong, they would have been vilified in the press as a cheating w**ker. No one is above the sport that made them what they were/are IMO.
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Guys,
I seriously doubt that in any professional sport there is sombeody not taking performance enhancing drugs - call it what you like. It's just a case of not being caught. That's why salaries are sky high to compensate at least a bit for the health loss or even death. I know it;s very sad...
Regarding Lance if he wasn't caught than it means his titles are genuine. No point in going back unless we screen all sports men out there which is impossible
Paul
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^^^^ sadly, I'm sure your right regarding drug taking today. I'm sure there's a clever chap somewhere in a Lab' brewing up a potion that's undetectable to the testing peeps, it's a game of cat ad mouse unfortunately.
As they always say, "if its to good to be true, it usually is", look at Ben Johnson, Marion Jones, the allegations regarding Flo Jo who died aged 38 and who's 100 and 200 metre world records still stand 25 years later and let's not mention every Chinese swimmer that's ever put on a pair of speedo's.
As for cycling, to see Wiggo win this years tour and Cavendish and Froom do so well and then the rest of our peeps in the Olympics and Paralympics achieve so much gives hope that you can be the best without pumping your veins full of sh*te.
:happy2:
EDIT: oh and I hope Armstrong ends up in jail!
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I don't see any issue with what he has done true or not. all sports people take some form of food drink to enhance themselves, call them supplements if it aids you then it's an enhancement. at the Olympics in the archery the people competing have weights and balancing aids to help them is this cheating in my eyes yes. I think it's turning or has turned into a witch hunt for him. he beat the big c so he's still a winner.
That will probably rub you true sports people up but that's my op.
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Anybody else see Paddy Powers new advert!! :evilgrin:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fii188%2Fmark_eire%2F480433_10151194478739914_732355911_n_zps8b85c820.jpg&hash=89de332b7777f06717f30cb9462a85c415909f1a)
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The level of substance use and abuse across all sports will be far greater than anyone dare imagine. The rewards are too great and tempation very difficult to resist. Imagine if you can't shake a niggling injury never mind want to gain a tenth or two in time terms. Not comdoning it just saying it must be difficult when it's you livelyhood.
Lets not forget that UCI seems far more prepared to do the blood letting in public where as the FA and premiership teams cover for players saying they have an injury when they've been done for recreational drugs.
Think there will be a big scandal when they finally catch the Jamaican athletics team. Only reason they caught Dawain Chambers was that the Doctor managing the administration and cycling of the performance enhancement substances, used the list of athletes he was working with as part of a plea bargain for tax evasion.
I also think the media and public at large have a deep misunderstanding of steriods, the family of steriods are used widely in medical science and vast portions of the public are in much better health and physical shape due to being perscribed steriods. cortisone (http://cortisone) is a classic example of this.
Good film to watch on this subject is called Bigger, Faster, Stronger http://www.biggerstrongerfastermovie.com/ (http://www.biggerstrongerfastermovie.com/)
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I'd rather see them doped up to the back knackers and see someone blitz a race, be more entertaining.
As Frankie Boyle said 'do you want to see someone run the 100m in 9.78 seconds or do you want to see someone run it in 3 seconds?'
On a more serious note I can see why they would do it...I completed the C2C challenge yesterday and it certainly is tough.