MK5 Golf GTI
General => Random Chat => Topic started by: Sunglasses Ron on October 17, 2012, 09:59:50 pm
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No VAG trolling (honest :laugh:), just worth a watch IMO..
I am a big fan of the RS3 (and would have one for my job tbh). But the ugly baby BM aint done so bad IMO. Especially in the head to head run.. :surprised:
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The beemer is amazing value for money!
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Certainly is Jas (even if it isn't a looker).. A potential 38mpg, £30k, 2WD, 5dr hatch that cracks 10 secs 0-100 out the box is bloody impressive IMO..
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Will they be making a coupe version do you know? Will be a 2nd hand bargain I think in 2 years time! 10sec 0-100 mental for the money. The way technology keeps moving on is great
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Will they be making a coupe version do you know? Will be a 2nd hand bargain I think in 2 years time! 10sec 0-100 mental for the money. The way technology keeps moving on is great
Rumours of a 2 series Coupe are very strong.. :happy2:
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Will they be making a coupe version do you know? Will be a 2nd hand bargain I think in 2 years time! 10sec 0-100 mental for the money. The way technology keeps moving on is great
Rumours of a 2 series Coupe are very strong.. :happy2:
In time for your upgrade?
One thing I dont agree with the review though, ie driving position of the rs3, if its anything like my TT its fully adjustable? Ass can be sat on the floor, steering wheel goes up and down in and out. Jonny adjusted my seating position and it felt proper racecar :signLOL:
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You cant argue with the performance of the Bimmer for that money, You would think with the price differential between the 2 cars the BM would struggle to match all round performance, but it simply smashes it. :driver:
I know you can lessen the under steer on the Audi with a few mods, but you shouldn't have to. :confused: Under steer kills track day fun unless you are a rally driver.
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it's such as shame the 1 series is so ugly as the noise of that engine on the track was just brilliant :laugh:
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I wonder how the rs3 would have done on track with decent rubber though, my TT had understeer at the limits, then I fitted supersports like the m135 has fitted here and now it handles pretty much neutrally. The suspersports where developed partly with the TTRS and porkas (according to the article I read) with the aim to get more front end grip and less understeer which worked in my case.
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I am sure you can greatly reduce it with good tyres, but you shouldn't have to, it cant be hard for Audi engineers to design a more neutral car at the design stage, this is there top sausage RS model. It has 4 wheel drive so they cant be worrying about everyone finding ditches. Just baffling.
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Well to be fair, and I dont know if it also includes the RS3, but you can spec the dunlop sportmaxx race tyres from the factory now, and they are on par with the supersports if not racier.
I recall a mag questioning a audi boss about why audi's are like this and his response was that an audi has to drive like an audi even the RS models as thats what apparently customers want. And having spent some time on the TT forums and reading some of the stuff the guys over there want from their cars I can see why. Sad for us, but at the same time I suppose thats why the VAG tuning scene thrives so much.
Im surprised at how good the BMW sounds, very nice, sounded like a NA car imo
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Just configured an m135i £31495, I think this could be the next car ! Diff and bye bye run flats job done !
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It doesn't come with runflats.......does it?
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It doesn't come with runflats.......does it?
Only if you want it to. Free option looking at the bmw configurator
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Just configured an m135i £31495, I think this could be the next car ! Diff and bye bye run flats job done !
Mine came to nearly £33k. Media professional is essenial in a BMW. Didnt Mike say BMW were offering fair discounts though?
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I still wouldnt buy that M135i...... even if i had the money. Its fugly! Having said that... the understeer on that audi is shameful, id wager there are better handling MK5s on here.
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chris harris is driving that rs3 like that guy did his on the 'ring :signLOL:
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not the armco... not the armco... NOT THE ARMCO........ sh*t!!!! :signLOL:
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I think the people who are accusing Chris of unjust bias towards BMW are missing the point of his criticism. He does acknowledge that it does everything a very fast Audi should do, and it does it very well indeed. But it is an RS Audi. The brand represents what Audi can achieve in a sports car, so it should be better in the corners and on the track. This is only going to be emphasised when it's compared to a BMW sub-brand which betters it.
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As ugly as the BMW is you can't say a bad thing about the way it performs and sounds too. That Audi is shocking if you ask me other than the engine the whole car sounds crap and silly to drive on the edge but are you ever going to drive it like that on uk roads maybe not but still you think as an rs brand they would have sorted the handling out :driver:
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Can't justify the extra £1500 for the media, I'm happy with a car aslong as it has xenons, Bluetooth, and an iPod connector !
Quite fancied ticking the DAB option as well but it would take it over budget, if there were discounts though I'd probably go for the nav. Pointless anyways I'd be going used so I'd just need to deal with what ever the used car market throws up.
Saying that most of the things I look for in a car are there as standard I'd still be wanting the sun pack with uv windows, the pack with Pdc, 5 doors and foldy mirrors as a minimum
Yep the run flats are a free option on the configuration, I never seen an option to uncheck them so from that I gathered they are standard fitment.
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As ugly as the BMW is you can't say a bad thing about the way it performs and sounds too. That Audi is shocking if you ask me other than the engine the whole car sounds crap and silly to drive on the edge but are you ever going to drive it like that on uk roads maybe not but still you think as an rs brand they would have sorted the handling out :driver:
I think it will grow on you, the more I see them the more I'm thinking its not as bad as the last time I seen it :grin:
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Nah it's still not the best looking car but you can't knock it
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Has the Beemer got that silly cabin speaker that "enhances" engine sound? Looks like all the major manufacturer are at it now.
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Mmm not sure I hope not
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No sound generator on the M135i, thankfully.
Easy 8-10% off with decent haggling, adding top Nav is essential, rest isn't really that important. Money saved pays for toys.
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No sound generator on the M135i, thankfully.
It doesnt need it listening to that video!! Just sounds awesome
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Does the TTRS understeer that badly in standard form?
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Yep everyone who has driven one says the same
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The Contis aren't a bad tyre either, usually a top 3 in the tests every year. Sure a PSS will help but you're just moving the point at which it understeers, rather that fixing a duff chassis.
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Does the TTRS understeer that badly in standard form?
No.
TTRS is 200kg lighter, lower center of gravity, runs 255 width tyres all around aswell as different camber and track iirc.
TTRS s-tronic smashes the e92 m3 around the track by quite a margin.
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Very impressed with that BMW but like most BMWs I just don't "want" one in the same way I long for an RS3 (tho if I had the money I'd buy a 2nd hand TT-RS instead).
... it is an RS Audi. The brand represents what Audi can achieve in a sports car...
No it doesn't. Audi is a company. They design their cars for maximum profit. This amounts to two things: compromise for the sake of better margins, and compromise for the sake of increased sales. Audi know what they are doing, hence why their sales have grown year on year at a faster rate than BMW and Mercedes and why the A3, A6 and TT are the best selling cars in their respective segments.
Not everyone is an enthusiast. Not everyone wants a racecar for the road. Audi have positioned their car and engineered in attributes that it feels will give it the greatest profit. As a technical exercise, I don't think this is the best Audi engineers could do as you have implied.
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Some of the RS3's ive been looking at have a wider alloy wheel option, with a 255 front tyre - Presumably this is to help reduce understeer?? Does anyone know if this wider wheel was available on the launch cars or just the second batch of cars?
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There was a big hoo-ha about it on World Car Fans prior to launch because it's an odd characteristic to have wider wheels on the front of a car. Based on this I'd imagine it was available as an option from launch
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I thought at launch the rs3 ran 235 upfront and 225 at the rear. No expert though
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I thought at launch the rs3 ran 235 upfront and 225 at the rear. No expert though
thats what i thought... the wheel widths are the same allround AFAIK, but the rear tyres are narrow. This to me is the most ridiculous thing I've every heard!
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... it is an RS Audi. The brand represents what Audi can achieve in a sports car...
No it doesn't. Audi is a company. They design their cars for maximum profit. This amounts to two things: compromise for the sake of better margins, and compromise for the sake of increased sales. Audi know what they are doing, hence why their sales have grown year on year at a faster rate than BMW and Mercedes and why the A3, A6 and TT are the best selling cars in their respective segments.
Haha, well if that isn't reason to criticise it then I don't know what is. Quattro GmbH should be ashamed.
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You're kidding yourself if you think every other car company doesn't do this. Their primary motivation is to make profit. That is the only reason they are here.
I'm sure even M cars could be made better. Why not make their entire body out of carbon fibre? Because the car would cost too much and it wouldn't sell. So they compromise for the sake of better sales and hence better profitability.
I also think it's kind of ironic that you mention that it's something to criticise when we're members of a car modifying forum? We spend our money rectifying all the things VAG compromised on on our respective cars.
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I'm not disputing what you're saying, I agree, but I think Audi deserve a fair amount of flack for diluting their Motorsport brand.
From the RS3 brochure:
"In the world of Audi Motorsport, there are few things more evocative than the letters RS"
They're f*cking their heritage.
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M from a few years ago (paraphrased) "we will never have a turbocharged, automatic or SUV M car".
Porsche from a few years ago (also paraphrased) "there will never be a diesel Porsche."
I rest my case.
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I think you're both right to a certain degree.. Yes car manufactures are there to make money, but they are also out there to promote what they can do with certain models of their cars.
The 'RS' models for example are never going to be a huge money spinner, as there just isn't the volume there to do this. A 2.0TDI A3 will get a lot more attention when it comes to money making as there are frankly millions of them (as there is with the X2.0d BM's).
I remember when Ford launched the first Focus RS for example - It was reported that they actually lost money on every car they sold and was more of a 'this is what we can do' exercise..
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M from a few years ago (paraphrased) "we will never have a turbocharged, automatic or SUV M car".
I rest my case.
That's not through choice though is it? More to do with tight EU emission laws which has just about every other car manufacture's arm up there back too (other than super car marques which are in a totally different category).
What BMW have tried to do with their TC's engines though, is try and make them as close to a NA feel as possible..
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It is through choice. They can still sell whatever car they like, but if it's taxed more people won't buy it. So they sell short their heritage for profit.
It really is no different imho, it's all chasing sales.
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M from a few years ago (paraphrased) "we will never have a turbocharged, automatic or SUV M car".
But look what they did with them. The 4.4L twin-turbo V8 is an absolute peach. It's quicker than the V10, it's more economical, and more useable. It improved the M5 unquestionably. When the M3 gets a smaller capacity turbocharged engine that will undoubtedly be a better car, not because it makes BMW more money, but because it makes the car better! The DCT 'box is arguably the best semi-automatic 'box available. Again, it betters the PERFORMANCE of their cars.
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Does the TTRS understeer that badly in standard form?
No.
TTRS is 200kg lighter, lower center of gravity, runs 255 width tyres all around aswell as different camber and track iirc.
TTRS s-tronic smashes the e92 m3 around the track by quite a margin.
Sport Auto Ring lap times.
M3 8:05
TT RS 8:09
Or are we playing modified cars vs stock again?
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Is it more fun though? Arguably no.
Anyway dunno what this big hoo haa is about.
The RS3 is just a modern day rs2. So if anything Audi are fully following their heritage. Lots of straight line go, lots of grip and lots of understeer.
As for BMW they have lost their way with their M series.
The E46 m3 is still better than any M car they have made since.
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Does the TTRS understeer that badly in standard form?
No.
TTRS is 200kg lighter, lower center of gravity, runs 255 width tyres all around aswell as different camber and track iirc.
TTRS s-tronic smashes the e92 m3 around the track by quite a margin.
Sport Auto Ring lap times.
M3 8:05
TT RS 8:09
Or are we playing modified cars vs stock again?
Where did you get that BMW time from?
The Audi time was done by a journo. If Audi spent a week there with a pro driver it would blitz that time.
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lots of grip and lots of understeer.
How did you manage to fit lots of grip and lots of under steer, into the same sentence. :laugh:
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M from a few years ago (paraphrased) "we will never have a turbocharged, automatic or SUV M car".
But look what they did with them. The 4.4L twin-turbo V8 is an absolute peach. It's quicker than the V10, it's more economical, and more useable. It improved the M5 unquestionably. When the M3 gets a smaller capacity turbocharged engine that will undoubtedly be a better car, not because it makes BMW more money, but because it makes the car better! The DCT 'box is arguably the best semi-automatic 'box available. Again, it betters the PERFORMANCE of their cars.
I would have to respectfully disagree. Selling out your heritage is selling out your heritage. Subjectively and objectively the X5M and X6M cars are ridiculous and are a prime example of M doing this purely in the interest of profit. Therefore, BMW have made their intentions perfectly clear.
Additionally, they have implied that turbocharging is not what they feel is in the best interest of the brand, but are willing to make this compromise in the interest of building a car that will make them a profit.
Audi have done exactly the same. They have built a car they feel will serve them best in the marketplace. I don't see a difference between the two.
As I mention above, Audi are market leaders in several segments where their cars are not the byword in performance and handling. Therefore using the fundamental definition of the "better" car being the one that sells the most, Audi have demonstrated that more performance and better handling do not necessarily make a better car.
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Does the TTRS understeer that badly in standard form?
No.
TTRS is 200kg lighter, lower center of gravity, runs 255 width tyres all around aswell as different camber and track iirc.
TTRS s-tronic smashes the e92 m3 around the track by quite a margin.
Sport Auto Ring lap times.
M3 8:05
TT RS 8:09
Or are we playing modified cars vs stock again?
Nurburgring f1 track
Driver: Guido Naumann (AutoBild Sportscars)
2:23,41 min - Audi TT RS Plus S-tronic
2:28,23 min - BMW M3 DKG Competition Package
Euro speedway
Driver: Guido Naumann (AutoBild Sportscars)
1:37,06 min - Audi TT RS Plus S-tronic
1:39,52 min - BMW M3 DKG Competition Package
Sachensring
Driver: Guido Naumann (AutoBild Sportscars)
1:38,71 min - Audi TT RS Plus S-tronic
1:40,65 min - BMW M3 DKG Competition Package
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lots of grip and lots of understeer.
How did you manage to fit lots of grip and lots of under steer, into the same sentence. :laugh:
Grip and handling are two very different things
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Not to sure about that, under steer is lack of front end grip, is it not!. :chicken:
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M from a few years ago (paraphrased) "we will never have a turbocharged, automatic or SUV M car".
But look what they did with them. The 4.4L twin-turbo V8 is an absolute peach. It's quicker than the V10, it's more economical, and more useable. It improved the M5 unquestionably. When the M3 gets a smaller capacity turbocharged engine that will undoubtedly be a better car, not because it makes BMW more money, but because it makes the car better! The DCT 'box is arguably the best semi-automatic 'box available. Again, it betters the PERFORMANCE of their cars.
I would have to respectfully disagree. Selling out your heritage is selling out your heritage. Subjectively and objectively the X5M and X6M cars are ridiculous and are a prime example of M doing this purely in the interest of profit. Therefore, BMW have made their intentions perfectly clear.
I reckon I could count the amount of X5M and X6M's that BMW have sold on my little piggies.. Can't imagine they have made a huge profit on them.. :confused: Total, pointless, fashion accessory IMO. But then so are all fast, gas guzzling 4x4's..
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Not to sure about that, under steer is lack of front end grip, is it not!. :chicken:
Not really no completely different. I'm not articulate enough to explain the difference but have read enough about the subject by people that are in the know that it's not the same at all.
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Grip is exactly what it says, the RS3 has lots of grip compared to a 2 wheel drive car because it has 4 wheel drive. But it doesnt have lots of grip if the front wheels wont grip while turning. I understand why you think it has lots of grip but you cant say that in a sentence if you also say it under steers :innocent:
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Grip is exactly what it says, the RS3 has lots of grip compared to a 2 wheel drive car because it has 4 wheel drive. But it doesnt have lots of grip if the front wheels wont grip while turning. I understand why you think it has lots of grip but you cant say that in a sentence if you also say it under steers :innocent:
No thats not right.
The car only has the 4wd advantage under power. Read any review of say the old rs2 and the journos speak of massive grip in corners but also understeer.
How can a car understeer in a corner sometimes, but have masses of grip at other times? If the front tyres weren't gripping then the CH wouldnt have shredded the front tyres would he.
It's like saying the Evos are the best handling cars in the world because they have generate so much grip. Well actually a e46 m3 doesn't have as much grip but still is regarded as a better handling car.
Grip and handling are not the same thing.
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Sounds like you're confusing grip and traction which are 2 totally different things.
4WD cars have loads of traction because they are 4WD yet the same amount of grip as a 2WD car as that is down to physics and the coefficient of friction of the tyres.
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No we aren't talking forward motion here. We are talking cornering grip.
The suspension setup of a car can affect how a car handles and how it grips.
Just because it understeers at the limit, doesn't mean it doesn't also have phenomenal grip.
The rs3 has masses of transitional grip. You can throw it about be stupid and it does as you tell it and it grips the road, on power or off. However on the limits it understeers. Just because it understeers at the limit doesn't mean it doesnt has masses of grip every other time.
It's like a go kart. Low grip but handles sh*t hot.
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I reckon I could count the amount of X5M and X6M's that BMW have sold on my little piggies.. Can't imagine they have made a huge profit on them.. :confused: Total, pointless, fashion accessory IMO. But then so are all fast, gas guzzling 4x4's..
Ive driven an X6M around Brands in anger, and I have to say it went rather well, even handled well! I hassled M3s down the back striaght on every lap!
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:indifferent:
Show me an audi that doesnt understeer? Thats under 50K? They all do it... even the ones with PROPPER quattro, not micky mouse 4mo.
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Does the TTRS understeer that badly in standard form?
No.
TTRS is 200kg lighter, lower center of gravity, runs 255 width tyres all around aswell as different camber and track iirc.
TTRS s-tronic smashes the e92 m3 around the track by quite a margin.
Sport Auto Ring lap times.
M3 8:05
TT RS 8:09
Or are we playing modified cars vs stock again?
Where did you get that BMW time from?
The Audi time was done by a journo. If Audi spent a week there with a pro driver it would blitz that time.
They're both Sport Auto's official time, so both set by their driver. Either HVS or Rohrl.
The times you added are what I'd expect to see, a significantly lighter car is quicker over a shorter track. The Ring has 2 2nd gear corners, so is more about the ability to carry speed and drag itself up big hills, so the M3 will have a slight advantage. Although Sport Auto's Hockenheim lap puts the M3 faster too.
They're both fairly evenly matched over both sets of figures, I think that's a very good achievement for the cheaper TTRS.
Trouble with stats is they can prove or disprove any point... But the TTRS "blitz" an M3 in stock vs stock? No, it will never do it I'm afraid. Be pragmatic and look at the facts.
Anyway, we're moving away from the topic. The RS3 is no TTRS with a boot, I think that's fairly obvious.
http://www.sportauto.de/rundenzeiten-nuerburgring-nordschleife-3649995.html?p=1&sort=ZeitNS&order=ASC
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:indifferent:
Show me an audi that doesnt understeer? Thats under 50K? They all do it... even the ones with PROPPER quattro, not micky mouse 4mo.
2nd hand R8
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:indifferent:
Show me an audi that doesnt understeer? Thats under 50K? They all do it... even the ones with PROPPER quattro, not micky mouse 4mo.
2nd hand R8
:signLOL: Ok... you got me there.... i meant 'new' :happy2:
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Thats a pretty damning review for the RS3. And considering its been well and truly mayched by a car for 10k less, is pretty embarrassing for the brand i think.
Almost like having a standard Mk6 Golf GTI match a Mk6 Golf R in every department.
Just like CH said, if the M135 is that good, what will the new M1 be like :scared: :scared: surely it will annihilate the RS3. And now that BMW have moved to turbo charged engines, its an even better tuning base.
We know a stage 2 RS3 is approx 430hp, so whats a stage 2 M135i?
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Plenty of 500hp 135is in the States, it won't be long before the newer version is somewhere close.
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I bet youd be lucky to get 1 track day out of a set of rears running 500bhp... :signLOL:
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Let's just wait for the new RS3 before we compare essentially a 9 year old car with a brand new one.
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Agreed different kettle of fish tony.
I know of two guys with 450hp 3.0 TT beemers, intake exhaust, map, wmi intercoolers.
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Thats a pretty damning review for the RS3. And considering its been well and truly mayched by a car for 10k less, is pretty embarrassing for the brand i think.
Almost like having a standard Mk6 Golf GTI match a Mk6 Golf R in every department.
Just like CH said, if the M135 is that good, what will the new M1 be like :scared: :scared: surely it will annihilate the RS3. And now that BMW have moved to turbo charged engines, its an even better tuning base.
We know a stage 2 RS3 is approx 430hp, so whats a stage 2 M135i?
Basic bolt ons and mapping will give the RS3 some points back due to the 135i having a relatively small blower. DP, FMIC and mapping should see around 400 mark I would imagine.
From what I hear, the M135i is the same N55 unit that is in my 135i, just with the standard software tweaked a little. So don't expect MASSIVE gains from a stage 1 map. This is based on DD roller results though, so go on a happy dyno and you could see whatever figure you want.. :grin:
That's also based on the engine being identical to the N55 135i. I have yet to see whether or not that has been confirmed or not.
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Let's just wait for the new RS3 before we compare essentially a 9 year old car with a brand new one.
Doesnt the RS£ use an extended TTRS chassis, and not an A3 chassis. Pretty sure i read that somewhere
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The basic TT chassis is the same as the PQ35 A3/Mk5/Mk6/Leon et al chassis. It's still 9 years old!
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You say that, but an R26.R has a classis like a MKIV Golf - Stone Age rear beam spec.
They still managed to make that go fast, with very little power too.
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saying that, does it matter that the chassis is 9 years old. Audi chose to use a 9 year old chassis for their RS3 rather than the a new one. BMW obviously chose t use the latest designs instead.
So in 6 or 7 years, when the next generation A3 platform is getting old, and Audi release the next RS3, we'll be in the same boat again.
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saying that, does it matter that the chassis is 9 years old. Audi chose to use a 9 year old chassis for their RS3 rather than the a new one. BMW obviously chose t use the latest designs instead.
So in 6 or 7 years, when the next generation A3 platform is getting old, and Audi release the next RS3, we'll be in the same boat again.
Well.. it matters if the 9 year old chassis isnt very good. :grin:
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8P S3 was released 3MYs after launch. This gen sees the S3 released in the same MY. I can't imagine an RS3 will be more than a year or two away
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I seem to recall not long ago that 5th Gear put an Audi RS3 against the BMW 1M Coupe around a racetrack and even in the wet the BMW beat the RS3! Goooooo BMW :pomppomp: :pomppomp: :pomppomp:
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Plenty of 500hp 135is in the States, it won't be long before the newer version is somewhere close.
But that's American horses which are 10% more powerful than our UK horses (when measured on a dyno)
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LOL.
Like their downhill 1/4 miles that only operate when a tailwind is in town :happy2:
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Do you know I still want an RS3 though! Strange I know, but for out of the box performance and ease of getting to it, I don't think it can be beaten. It is ideal for my wife, and very safe with the 4wd. Residuals are rock solid as well. I am still test driving the M135, but I think my mind is already made up!
Ive been speaking to a dealer today, who is offering me a good discount. I have been offered three similarity specced new cars, one in Suzuka, one in Ibis and one in Daytona. I'm straying toward Sukuza, what would you go for?
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Suzuka Grey? Yup. Although there is something about the red.
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All 3 colours will look good, but whites getting long in the tooth now tbh sick and tired of that colour (last two cars where white wish I had a metallic)
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Look what happened to the fronts on the RS3!
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=1208908&mid=0&i=300&nmt=RE%3A+Chris+Harris+video%3A+BMW+M135i+vs+Audi+RS3+&mid=0
People are suggesting you can get a decently specced M135i through a broker for sub £27k. Unbelievable value for money.
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Suzuka Grey? Yup. Although there is something about the red.
I like the red also, but he is only offering a standard car, and I want a little spec at least. And I don't want a black car
Here are the three potentials;
Suzuka grey, light and rain sensors/auto dim, interior light package, privacy glass, black roof rails, folding door mirrors, BOSE, cruise
Ibis white, Light and Rain sensor/auto dim, through load, privacy glass, electric front seats, dimming door mirrors, lumbar support, BOSE, cruise control.
Daytona Grey, same spec as ibis above
Sorry for slightly O/T
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It has to be Daytona Grey then. :wink:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F_SM9A_sqVGgM%2FTSkj17--bjI%2FAAAAAAAAHZU%2FNiPscBayEtQ%2Fs1600%2FAudi%252BRS3%252BSnow%252B1.jpg&hash=063ed8d6ed4cfa4cac9dffdecb63fda3d308d48f)
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daytona will look best when polished and waxed.
Suzuka grey novely wears off quickly.
You might also get pulled over at times as the car is listed as grey but to most people it looks white until its actually sat next to a white car. Has happened to my mate a few times.
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But that grey above has the Matt aluminium styling pack, the one I've been offered doesn't. It makes a big difference to the front.
Still, need to sell the 35 first.......
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Retro fit Oli. :wink:
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This just makes you laugh really... what a con job the Rs3 is!! After that review I can see sales tailing off. I think the really shameful thing is the bmw should be compared with the s3, but instead murders the rs3.
if/when the M 1 series comes out, audi really are going to have to look at themselves :signLOL:
Is there really any like for like car where audi are better than BMW.... not really :pomppomp:
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Murdered? The rs3 lapped quicker on much inferior tyres. Supersports are worth 1.6 secs a lap over the average track.
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Murdered? The rs3 lapped quicker on much inferior tyres. Supersports are worth 1.6 secs a lap over the average track.
at 3/4 of the price... i think its fair to say it was murdered. what scares me more is how poorly it drives. no doubt its a good a-b car, but at that price you need a little more for your money.
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Murdered? The rs3 lapped quicker on much inferior tyres. Supersports are worth 1.6 secs a lap over the average track.
at 3/4 of the price... i think its fair to say it was murdered. what scares me more is how poorly it drives. no doubt its a good a-b car, but at that price you need a little more for your money.
I agree the rs3 is overpriced, but when specces equally there is only a 6 k difference, which you will see in the residuals.
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Murdered? The rs3 lapped quicker on much inferior tyres. Supersports are worth 1.6 secs a lap over the average track.
at 3/4 of the price... i think its fair to say it was murdered. what scares me more is how poorly it drives. no doubt its a good a-b car, but at that price you need a little more for your money.
I agree the rs3 is overpriced, but when specces equally there is only a 6 k difference, which you will see in the residuals.
Its not the finer spec details that are the concern... its the fact that audi have taken essentially a 8yr old car, changed the engine and charged £40k for it!! They need to fix up... even more so before the proper M version comes out. :scared:
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If it sells it sells!
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If it sells it sells!
Whilst thats true, and people will buy a car because its an audi and its white and they have a 40k budget.... doesnt mean everyone will. The numbers are clearly stacked in BMWs favour here and brand loyalty only goes so far. To say that audi are pushing brand loyalty to the limit is an understatement.
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If that's the standard exhaust it sounds fantastic. :drool:
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That M135i is brilliant, especially for the price, but its a shame its uberbid.
Although still could be my next car as I will have at least 3 years to get used to her :grin:
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If that's the standard exhaust it sounds fantastic. :drool:
+1
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If it sells it sells!
Whilst thats true, and people will buy a car because its an audi and its white and they have a 40k budget.... doesnt mean everyone will. The numbers are clearly stacked in BMWs favour here and brand loyalty only goes so far. To say that audi are pushing brand loyalty to the limit is an understatement.
The people who have bought one are happy. This really isn't as big a deal as some are making it out to be. Rs cars are always pricey, and they always understeer. Business as usual.
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If it sells it sells!
Whilst thats true, and people will buy a car because its an audi and its white and they have a 40k budget.... doesnt mean everyone will. The numbers are clearly stacked in BMWs favour here and brand loyalty only goes so far. To say that audi are pushing brand loyalty to the limit is an understatement.
The people who have bought one are happy. This really isn't as big a deal as some are making it out to be. Rs cars are always pricey, and they always understeer. Business as usual.
Yes but shouldn't Audi do something about that :confused:
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i dont think the audi is overpriced, its an rs model, the bmw is not a proper m car, the 1m was 40k, the bmw is a fantastic car and it seems a better drivers car, but thats what bmw do, great drivers cars, vag cars as a whole are never thrill of your pants stuff, the reason why you would buy a meg over a golf, same rule applies to these 2, i bet the audi is a better daily to take kids to school and all that. i would never buy an rs3, i like performance cars to do corners, but lots dont buy a car for that. although im sure like all vag cars once modded its awesome. :happy2:
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I think I’d still have the RS3 (if it was 2 door), as a daily drive not sure it would be pushed that far on A/B roads for the under steer to be an issue, admittedly doesn’t look great on track, but I have a track car. :happy2:
Shame they seem to bring the RS out so late in the cycle, almost out of date already, I’ll be looking at a new S3 when the 335i is 3 yrs old.
Just couldn’t get over the looks of the 1 series, there’s always a chance you’re going to be in traffic an catch a glimpse of yourself in the reflection of a shop window. Do BMW have a bucket on the options list? :grin:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Foo163%2Fneilmelvin%2FUgly-stick.jpg&hash=92eb07e43c4e34fba78e6742594880d57cb8b66f)
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If it sells it sells!
Whilst thats true, and people will buy a car because its an audi and its white and they have a 40k budget.... doesnt mean everyone will. The numbers are clearly stacked in BMWs favour here and brand loyalty only goes so far. To say that audi are pushing brand loyalty to the limit is an understatement.
The people who have bought one are happy. This really isn't as big a deal as some are making it out to be. Rs cars are always pricey, and they always understeer. Business as usual.
Yes but shouldn't Audi do something about that :confused:
Audi have made it quite clear that they do it on purpose as that's what most of their customers want.If its not for you don't buy an audi
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Audi probably don't expect most of their customers to know what understeer is let alone find it. :laugh:
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Pick the colour of your new Audi..........
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/27143826/audicolour.jpg)
:innocent:
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Audi probably don't expect most of their customers to know what understeer is let alone find it. :laugh:
:signLOL:
tis true
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Slightly ironic criticism on a forum that's dedicated to a car whose chassis debuted on an Audi, and for a company whose most dynamically capable cars (the R8, Lambo Gallardo, Aventador and arguably the TT) are all made by the Audi sub-brand.
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Oh, I do love the BMW....but just getting started on my current car... :party:
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Slightly ironic criticism on a forum that's dedicated to a car whose chassis debuted on an Audi, and for a company whose most dynamically capable cars (the R8, Lambo Gallardo, Aventador and arguably the TT) are all made by the Audi sub-brand.
It could be worse - we could ALL be wanking over a sh*t car :wink:
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:signLOL:
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Slightly ironic criticism on a forum that's dedicated to a car whose chassis debuted on an Audi, and for a company whose most dynamically capable cars (the R8, Lambo Gallardo, Aventador and arguably the TT) are all made by the Audi sub-brand.
It could be worse - we could ALL be wanking over a sh*t car :wink:
Or we could all be driving slower, worse handling versions of exactly the same car with a VW badge strapped to the front whilst still making fun of the car's dynamic shortcomings and not appreciating the aforementioned irony :P
Nobody's asking you to buy or like the RS3 and I personally would never buy one, but you of your own free will already bought a Golf GTI which is exactly the same "sh*t" car when you peel away all the superficial stuff and give it a smaller engine and brakes.
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This is like a good tennis match now. :pomppomp:
Your serve Andrew. :popcornsoda:
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cant really say the gti is like an rs3 at all.... apart from sharing a few nobs and switches the drive is totally differently. Not to mention my car is worth around 1/4 of what that rs3 is worth.
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As far as I'm aware the 8P and the Mk5 don't share any switchgear at all. Maybe the wiper stalk, but that'll be your lot. And you say they drive completely differently having driven one? Owned one? The same criticisms are aimed at the S3, but when I test drove an S3 and an Ed30 back to back their handling was basically the same. What the extra weight takes away the extra grip gives back.
I'm gonna stick to my guns on this and say that the RS3 is the same car as the ones you've all bought. And brand new, your Eddy brand new would have only been a few k shy of the RS3 and considering that VW is lower in the brand ladder than Audi that makes sense.
I feel there is a lack of objectivity in this thread. I'm happy to say the BMW is a better car to drive (objective), that it's better value (objective), but that it's ugly (subjective) and I just don't want one. Whereas you keep insisting on comparing apples with oranges to get your point across. Your 2nd hand Eddy value vs. new value of the RS3 is an example. Totally disregarding the fact that the RS3 is now obsolete whereas the M135i is a brand new model another.
I'm not here to say the RS3 is a good car. If it was £35k with buckets and standard then I might have felt that way. (I say might, I probably still wouldn't have.) £40k is a rip off imho, particularly now that it's at the end of it's model cycle. For the same money I'd have had a 2nd hand TT-RS and either a Mk5 GT TDI or an A3 Sportback TDI with the change for daily duties.
But as I've already mentioned, you all are members of a forum dedicated to a version of exactly the same car, and as much as you mock Audi they make all of VAG's most dynamically capable cars.
And the cars that handle the best must be the best, right? I mean that's what your all saying isn't it? It's not as of people have other criteria when buying cars, is it?
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I disagree with most of what you have written above... to sum it up
The gti drives nothing like a S3 or Rs3. The Gti doesnt even drive like an r32.
If you would like to compare like for like then compare the 1M with the Rs3.... i think we all know how that one ends :grin:
A brand new eddy would have been around £27k... which is no where near the price of a new Rs3.
As for sharing switchgear... on one hand you say "I'm gonna stick to my guns on this and say that the RS3 is the same car as the ones you've all bought". On the other hand you say "the 8P and the Mk5 don't share any switchgear at all".
The only parts where I think we agree is that its a rip off :grin: and that most people buying audis dont care about stuff like that.... although I draw the line at the Rs3. Its a performance model so most people know what they are buying.
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The price of my Ed30 with plenty of bells and whistles was £28k brand new. Just sayin'. :smiley:
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This still going on then.
I think you are all missing the obvious.
Everyone has different needs and a rs3 does things the Beemer can't and vice versa.
Some people might just want a auto car, that's 4wd, luxurious, seats 5 and has some grunt. I don't see another car that fits this same criteria, and therefore it sells.
In the real world on British roads, the rs3 wi be quicker in the hands of your average driver.
Simples.
Personally I dont think the rs3 understeers as badly as CH is trying to make out he was driving it like a dick, and he's obviously looking for negative things to say about the rs3 proof being the seating position, and the fact it allegedly changes ride quality to shockingly bad in sport mode even though the car doesn't even have magnaride.
And the GolfR costs over 30k generally with some options too.
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I disagree with most of what you have written above... to sum it up
The gti drives nothing like a S3 or Rs3. The Gti doesnt even drive like an r32.
If you would like to compare like for like then compare the 1M with the Rs3.... i think we all know how that one ends :grin:
A brand new eddy would have been around £27k... which is no where near the price of a new Rs3.
As for sharing switchgear... on one hand you say "I'm gonna stick to my guns on this and say that the RS3 is the same car as the ones you've all bought". On the other hand you say "the 8P and the Mk5 don't share any switchgear at all".
The only parts where I think we agree is that its a rip off :grin: and that most people buying audis dont care about stuff like that.... although I draw the line at the Rs3. Its a performance model so most people know what they are buying.
Why would a nose heavy R32 drive like a GTI? Don't get me wrong I adore the R32 but the whole reason the 2.5TFSI engine was made was to get rid of some of the weight over the front nose. I'd imagine it's handling would not be dissimilar to an S3 - although we'll have to agree to disagree with the similarities of the S3 and the GTI.
My point about the switchgear is that you say that's all they share. I say that's exactly what they don't share (the superficial stuff) but share all the major stuff underneath. Sorry for being unclear.
So now you wanna compare the RS3 with the 1M? So you want to compare an obsolete model with one that doesn't exist yet? Refer to my point above about objectivity.
When did they stop selling the Eddy? Many years ago. Back then, the S3 was less than £27k brand new. Times have moved on. We can safely say in terms of price if the Eddy were on sale today it would be priced similarly to an Ed35 and that can easily cost well over £30k when given some decent options. So I'll stick to my point about price.
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This still going on then.
I think you are all missing the obvious.
Everyone has different needs and a rs3 does things the Beemer can't and vice versa.
Some people might just want a auto car, that's 4wd, luxurious, seats 5 and has some grunt. I don't see another car that fits this same criteria, and therefore it sells.
In the real world on British roads, the rs3 wi be quicker in the hands of your average driver.
Simples.
Personally I dont think the rs3 understeers as badly as CH is trying to make out he was driving it like a dick, and he's obviously looking for negative things to say about the rs3 proof being the seating position, and the fact it allegedly changes ride quality to shockingly bad in sport mode even though the car doesn't even have magnaride.
And the GolfR costs over 30k generally with some options too.
I've never noticed this in mine, in fact it's bloody awesome in Sport Mode...and I've also frightened myself on a couple of occasions by it...At the end of the day you make your bed you lie in it. If you like the BM then go buy it, if you like the Audi then buy that, the Audi does stuff the BM can't do and vicky verky as stated above. , plus it has 4 wheel drive which I wanted as my route to work is cross country, Audi Customer Service is also (in the dealers that I've so far used) has been second to none. Understeer, not as bad as CH and everyone is making out...i find okay. So if you want a blast in an RS3 then get in line.... :signLOL: Yes it may an old chassis but I love my RS3... :pomppomp:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMoschops01%2FAUDI_RS3%2FIMG_6643.jpg&hash=70b7f4747a36346e71e53a3bddc6bfd8f68651ac)
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Why do you keep saying its obsolete? You can still order one from Audi...
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Why do you keep saying its obsolete? You can still order one from Audi...
You can indeed Andrew. :happy2:
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It's obsolete by the nature of the fact that there is a new A3 available to buy. Hence, even of you order a new RS3, it is the old i.e. obsolete car. This is doubly true now that the new A3 Sportback has been announced.
The fact you can still buy one doesn't change the fact that the car is the old shape car. You could buy a brand new 996 Turbo well after the 997 had been released, but it was still the old i.e. obsolete model.
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Why did they leave it so late in the life cycle to release the RS3? Pretty much a few months before the new A3 became available :confused:
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Ref the a3 vs golf debate, you're always going to find the bias towards the golf on a golf gti forum.
I do recall when i purchased my gti way back in 2006, there was no s3 option and the audi alternative at the time was the a3 s line tfsi with the same 200ps. Every review i read said the s line chassis was too firm, had poor steering and was better without the 11mm lower suspension. The GTI then arrived a few months later and scooped up almost every car of the year award in every country and every hot hatch comparison award.
I still test drove both, on the same day as they were similar cost and the gti had a 12 month waiting list and the audi was available much sooner. They felt nothing alike, body control, steering feel, ride etc the audi felt like an a to b car and the gti felt sporty and fun.
I recall comparisons with other vag cars always said the gti was better to drive, whether against the cupra, vrs, s3 and so forth.
I've never driven the s3 but reviews back at release always ended with, we'd take the gti, lighter on its feet, much better steering feel and body control. I can't deny i'd fancy a s3 black edition though, I'm sure the traction would make up for any short falls in the chassis department :laugh:
I'm under no illusions that my 6 year old gti would feel dated in comparison to the newly launched hot hatches, car and technology move forwards very quickly
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i like the 1 series m looks kinda ok in a ugly way :happy2: would i have one over a golf or s3 NO ....Would i have the full fat 1m hell yes
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Going by the comments in this thread, alot of people in here should have bought a 130i instead of their golf. But for whatever reason they didnt :laugh:
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its ugly pure and simple :sick:
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its ugly pure and simple :sick:
Somehow they've managed to make it look even uglier than the last one. Such a shame as the engine and interior is lovely
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So now you wanna compare the RS3 with the 1M? So you want to compare an obsolete model with one that doesn't exist yet? Refer to my point above about objectivity.
When did they stop selling the Eddy? Many years ago. Back then, the S3 was less than £27k brand new. Times have moved on. We can safely say in terms of price if the Eddy were on sale today it would be priced similarly to an Ed35 and that can easily cost well over £30k when given some decent options. So I'll stick to my point about price.
The 1M does exist...
Obsolete is something that is no longer produced.
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So now you wanna compare the RS3 with the 1M? So you want to compare an obsolete model with one that doesn't exist yet? Refer to my point above about objectivity.
When did they stop selling the Eddy? Many years ago. Back then, the S3 was less than £27k brand new. Times have moved on. We can safely say in terms of price if the Eddy were on sale today it would be priced similarly to an Ed35 and that can easily cost well over £30k when given some decent options. So I'll stick to my point about price.
The 1M does exist...
Obsolete is something that is no longer produced.
+1
They had one at Top Gear Live last year. And one was stolen in 3mins earlier this year without the key!
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=712717
Brilliant car :happy2:
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So now you wanna compare the RS3 with the 1M? So you want to compare an obsolete model with one that doesn't exist yet? Refer to my point above about objectivity.
When did they stop selling the Eddy? Many years ago. Back then, the S3 was less than £27k brand new. Times have moved on. We can safely say in terms of price if the Eddy were on sale today it would be priced similarly to an Ed35 and that can easily cost well over £30k when given some decent options. So I'll stick to my point about price.
The 1M does exist...
Obsolete is something that is no longer produced.
ob·so·lete/ˌäbsəˈlēt/
Adjective:
No longer produced or used; out of date.
Verb:
Cause (a product or idea) to be or become obsolete by replacing it with something new: "we're obsoleting last year's designs".
Has the 8P been replaced? Yes it has. Therefore it is obsolete. The RS3 is based on the 8P, which is therefore also obsolete.
I know BMW made a 1M on the old chassis, but that too is obsolete. CH even makes reference to a new 1M on the way, so currently it does not exist. Maybe I should have been more consistent and called it obsolete as well, but to me your implication was that you wanted to compare the RS3 with the upcoming version of the 1M.
I just feel you're arguing the t*ss now. We're not gonna agree so I'm gonna leave my contribution at that.
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You're wasting your breathe man, BMW make better drivers cars than Audi. I'm pleased that even on a VAG forum the majority recognise that. All that bollocks about the RS3 being obsolete is just that, unless the new RS3 will be better than the forthcoming 1M, which we all know it won't.
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They are still making the RS3 and it is still a current model. How do I know? In the dealer the other day, I was looking at new RS3s, and a few of the specs I was offered were still in build! :-p
There you go, that sorts that one out!
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The rs3 stopped production but then they decided it was still selling well and allocated extra builds.
Anyway, better is objective, at the end of the day what's deemed to be better is dictated by sales numbers.
But yes the BMW will be the more "fun" to drive car, and the Audi will be the more everyday accessible car.
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So now you wanna compare the RS3 with the 1M? So you want to compare an obsolete model with one that doesn't exist yet? Refer to my point above about objectivity.
When did they stop selling the Eddy? Many years ago. Back then, the S3 was less than £27k brand new. Times have moved on. We can safely say in terms of price if the Eddy were on sale today it would be priced similarly to an Ed35 and that can easily cost well over £30k when given some decent options. So I'll stick to my point about price.
The 1M does exist...
Obsolete is something that is no longer produced.
ob·so·lete/ˌäbsəˈlēt/
Adjective:
No longer produced or used; out of date.
Verb:
Cause (a product or idea) to be or become obsolete by replacing it with something new: "we're obsoleting last year's designs".
Has the 8P been replaced? Yes it has. Therefore it is obsolete. The RS3 is based on the 8P, which is therefore also obsolete.
I know BMW made a 1M on the old chassis, but that too is obsolete. CH even makes reference to a new 1M on the way, so currently it does not exist. Maybe I should have been more consistent and called it obsolete as well, but to me your implication was that you wanted to compare the RS3 with the upcoming version of the 1M.
I just feel you're arguing the t*ss now. We're not gonna agree so I'm gonna leave my contribution at that.
There is a new A3, yes, but is there a new RS3? No... The RS3 is still for sale and still available as a factory build, so in my eyes that's not obsolete..
Oh and to say a ED30 when new was "only a few grand" less than a RS3 is bloody comical... :stupid: A brand new Ed30 was around £22-23k, so nearly half the price of the RS3 when comparing a base model car with no options..
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I know the RS3 is a lot of money, but I'm willing to buy into the process,I just want/need one and it will suit my needs perfectly.
However the M135 is just ridiculously good value, not the best looker, but stonking performance and its seems, economy as well. BMW have always led the way in engine technology.
To put it all a bit into perspective, I am just reading an EVO article on their Astra VXR and that comes in at £30k with all the necessary options. What would you rather have, BMW or Astra. Er no brainer!!
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There was a M135i parked up at Brands Hatch today..... it looks a dull as dishwater!!
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I think the original point was that we are comparing a RS3 which although you said is obsolete (as we know it isnt) should be compared to the old 1 series which is now no longer being produced. So if you compare the RS3 v 1M which is the car it should be compared to then it really doesnt stand much of a chance.
If you compare it with the new M135i then it doesnt look too great there either..
ob·so·lete/ˌäbsəˈlēt/
Adjective:
No longer produced or used; out of date.
Verb:
Cause (a product or idea) to be or become obsolete by replacing it with something new: "we're obsoleting last year's designs".
Has the 8P been replaced? Yes it has. Therefore it is obsolete. The RS3 is based on the 8P, which is therefore also obsolete.
I know BMW made a 1M on the old chassis, but that too is obsolete. CH even makes reference to a new 1M on the way, so currently it does not exist. Maybe I should have been more consistent and called it obsolete as well, but to me your implication was that you wanted to compare the RS3 with the upcoming version of the 1M.
I just feel you're arguing the t*ss now. We're not gonna agree so I'm gonna leave my contribution at that.
:happy2: Either way BMW>Audi :P
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I know the RS3 is a lot of money, but I'm willing to buy into the process,I just want/need one and it will suit my needs perfectly.
However the M135 is just ridiculously good value, not the best looker, but stonking performance and its seems, economy as well. BMW have always led the way in engine technology.
To put it all a bit into perspective, I am just reading an EVO article on their Astra VXR and that comes in at £30k with all the necessary options. What would you rather have, BMW or Astra. Er no brainer!!
yeah agreed...the new Astra :happy2:
:popcornsoda:
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I don't think the 1m should be compared to the rs3 ones a coupe the other a medium sized estate.
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Very good point about the BMW costing as much as a vxr! How much are the base engine models?
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yeah agreed...the new Astra :happy2:
:popcornsoda:
Enjoy the depreciation!
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yeah agreed...the new Astra :happy2:
:popcornsoda:
Enjoy the depreciation!
If I was spending that amount of money changing cars every 6 months then depreciation isn't really worth a tinkers cuss :signLOL:
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I don't think the 1m should be compared to the rs3 ones a coupe the other a medium sized estate.
they are the small car showpiece for either brand so often get compared... exact same power also
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Found this
http://www.m-power.com/_open/b/varlink1.jsp?lang=en&x=2807
I take it the n55 is the same engine as the later 1 series ?
What do I need for 400 bhp on one these engines ? Can I use 135i parts eg there aftermarket dp and intercoolers ?
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Found this
http://www.m-power.com/_open/b/varlink1.jsp?lang=en&x=2807
I take it the n55 is the same engine as the later 1 series ?
What do I need for 400 bhp on one these engines ? Can I use 135i parts eg there aftermarket dp and intercoolers ?
You will need cat less down pipes and a stg2 map. There's stuff out there for 500+bhp for not huge money.
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Found this
http://www.m-power.com/_open/b/varlink1.jsp?lang=en&x=2807
I take it the n55 is the same engine as the later 1 series ?
What do I need for 400 bhp on one these engines ? Can I use 135i parts eg there aftermarket dp and intercoolers ?
You will need cat less down pipes and a stg2 map. There's stuff out there for 500+bhp for not huge money.
Not on the N55 though Dave.. There is plenty for the N54, but the N55 is stuck at around 390 ATW bhp in the states (which given the generous rollers they use and transmission losses, I would hazard a guess at around 400bhp at the fly) and that is with the aid of a cat-less DP, FMIC and Meth..
The engine bay pics confuses me a bit though, as it's not identical to the old 135i N55 lump :confused: The intake is different for a start...
135i N55
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg39.imageshack.us%2Fimg39%2F9117%2F2011bmw335iengineto001s.jpg&hash=34dadba4710eea97b4f24bc9d0eb61973791e2bb) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/39/2011bmw335iengineto001s.jpg/)
M135i N55
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg10.imageshack.us%2Fimg10%2F7417%2F2013bmwm135iengine.jpg&hash=253b29825bc87c0d1b53043ac961cf726666b5fb) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/10/2013bmwm135iengine.jpg/)
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N55 is a bit poor compared to power numbers and stock turbo is maxed out at 17.2psi, with meth they see 410bhp.
But with a turbo conversion to achieve 20 psi they can see 500 with meth and some other bits, but only a few out there as yet so reliability isn't known.
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N55 is a bit poor compared to power numbers and stock turbo is maxed out at 17.2psi, with meth they see 410bhp.
But with a turbo conversion to achieve 20 psi they can see 500 with meth and some other bits, but only a few out there as yet so reliability isn't known.
Is that the hybrid turbo conversion ? Are the engines on the n54 and n55 equally as good ( I realise tuning potential is down due to the smaller turbo
Also If I could pick up a cheapish cat less dp for a 135i would it also fit the m135i, or do we not know yet ? as the m135is are still too much of a new car ?
How are the stock coolers on these ? do they need upgrading for track use eg 6 ish days a year ? Plus what about the oil coolers ?
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The N54 is the one with the forged internals and fancy top end, if you wanted to build something stupid, then get one of them and bank the spare £15k.
The N55 will catch up, but will cost more to achieve similar and reliable power. Too early to know what hardware will be on the M135i, but I imagine it won't take long for 'coolers and such to appear. Do you want to invalidate a £30k car warranty? Because BMW are super keen on this now, they note everything.
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Visited a tuner here in the USA yesterday that are building a large (70mm) turbo conversion on a n55. Looks amazing :drool: they are also building a 700+ whp m6 turbo.
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Seems someone has already been fiddling with the M135i and with decent results too...
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Mwhahahahaaaa!
Come bonus time, you will be mine. Oh yes, you will be mine....
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My word... that sounds incredible! :evilgrin:
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My word... that sounds incredible! :evilgrin:
Oh yes. :evilgrin:
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sh*t. The. Bed.
Want.
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thats pretty much sold it for me!! :congrats:
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In the Harris vid he reckons 0-100mph is under 11 seconds and that "tuned" one above does 0-160kph in about 11 seconds. Seems like money for nothing to me...
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Huh?
I clock it around 10 tops, considering Harris was in the 8sp auto and this one is losing extra time to manual shifts - I don't think that's too bad.
Look at the 1/4 mile leader board, power doesn't buy you a big drop in time.
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Huh?
I clock it around 10 tops, considering Harris was in the 8sp auto and this one is losing extra time to manual shifts - I don't think that's too bad.
Look at the 1/4 mile leader board, power doesn't buy you a big drop in time.
Exactly.. Just look at the difference between DSG and manual times when tested over 0-60, 0-100 and 1/4 mile.
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A respectable 6th place for the M135i in Evo Car of the Year :notworthy:
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I've opened the batting with a couple of dealers. Let the fun begin.
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I've opened the batting with a couple of dealers. Let the fun begin.
You can down load the mag to your ipad. You dont have to go bartering with WH Smiths and Menzies. :innocent:
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I has Menzies once, it was a bitch to shift. Nowhere near as bad as Taco Bell though.
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I've opened the batting with a couple of dealers. Let the fun begin.
What sort if finance are BMW doing on these? I heard it was 3.1%...
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Depends on model, they're being really keen on shifting Eco stuff and discounting as such. M135i is on the 4.9% deal.
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Saw 1 of these at J3 M42 today. He floored it off the line and got it plenty sideways. Much kudos, it sounded like an absolute beast!!!
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I'm still not convinced by the lack of a diff I watched the Dutch dude testing one and you could tell he was struggling a bit on the drifts reminds me of what I was like with my e90, it just wouldn't do what you wanted.
100% my next car though straight down to birds for the diff though.
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Word is the diff works in 2 ways, it uses the brakes in all modes but Sport+ with DSC de-activated, then it uses an electronically activated LSD.
Not quite a mechanical slipper, but certainly good enough to get the arse out. Maybe he needs to try harder?
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ff20.1addicts.com%2Fforums%2Fattachment.php%3Fattachmentid%3D717314%26amp%3Bd%3D1341547612&hash=8be70c8ab5aa8469d1dcb320035569b1d79ed363)
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Actually forgot these had the e diff - the Dutch tester probably wasnt driving in sport +
Does the e diff actually send power to the wheel with the grip or is all controlled via the brakes only
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electronic "diff" can surely only brake individual wheels to mimic a mechanical one surely
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Sorry, poor explanation on my part.
It has the e-faux diff which controls the rear brakes, which is basically the DSC for less intrusive day to day. Then in Sport+ it has an active e-LSD, which is an electronically controlled mechanism in the diff which mimics a real LSD. Much like the 458 has.
I remember reading an article on it a while back from someone in BMW, basically they're keeping pukka mechanical ones for M cars and switchable ones for M-Sport - as they don't think your average driver needs to be going sideways their way to work.... unless they choose too, then there's the switch.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.pistonheads.com%2Fnimg%2F25275%2FDifffMDiff.jpg&hash=0e4fadd1d6bb4f95edca49f46e9aab5e7db4b8a6)
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Mmmmm just need to see how it works on the road then, I wonder if the e diff will effect the install of a mechanical diff ?
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Got one for the day on Tuesday and my mate has one for 24hrs on Wednesday, so some good testing to come next week.. :wink: :driver:
Speaking of testing - Autocar did their official roadtest of the car this week (well the mag is out this week) and the figures are pretty impressive considering the conditions.
Conditions were damp and test was conducted with 2 people and a full tank of motion lotion. Tyres were also near knackered.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg29.imageshack.us%2Fimg29%2F9836%2Fphotojax.jpg&hash=fd7d244b8158700e171f8e4f00209b432f546e55) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/29/photojax.jpg/)
Falls pretty much in line with the Chris Harris test considering the weight difference and weather conditions. Also the comparison with the RS3 is stupidly close.. :surprised:
1/4 mile time/speed makes no sense at all though.. :confused:
Got a 4 star rating and came 2nd overall in it's class behind the Rocco R of all things but ahead of the RS3.
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Let us know how you find the diff and car in general :happy2:
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1/4 is bum, I shaved .8 off that with less power and having been sat in the queue for 30 mins in the Inters sun :signLOL:
My order goes in tomorrow :happy2:
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1/4 is bum, I shaved .8 off that with less power and having been sat in the queue for 30 mins in the Inters sun :signLOL:
My order goes in tomorrow :happy2:
:jumpmove: :jumpmove: :jumpmove:
What spec have you decided on pal?
The 1/4 time is not only crap (and way out IMO), but it doesn't make sense.. 14.0 @ 107mph, yet it does 0-110 in 13.7?!?! :confused: I would be amazed if you couldn't crack a low 13 sec run out the box (with the Auto box that is).
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3 door
Manual
Pro Nav
Adjustable suspension
Heated thrones
Wobbling over colour. Like white, but also like blue.. GAH!!
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what was the total cost of that spec?
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Wobbling over colour. Like white, but also like blue.. GAH!!
It would, without question, be blue for me. Then black.
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what was the total cost of that spec?
32700ish -10% :happy2:
It would, without question, be blue for me. Then black.
Yes, I've had a couple of white and black cars recently. Fancy a change, so maybe blue.
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8:05 B-T-G in the cold and rain..... feck me, this thing is good!
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8:05 B-T-G in the cold and rain..... feck me, this thing is good!
Ok ok ok ...... Don't keep rubbing it in!!
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Well, there's no argument for its looks - it has to do something well :grin:
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Fair play! It doesn't look as good as the previous gen. But I suppose it face that only a mother loves. PX at oulton?
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How'd you find the m135i Ben and hows it compare to the one you've got now? Theres a n55 dct near me going for £23k but around 2 years old and £40k miles, ill be able to get the price down, but im thinking with the pricing of the m135i been so good if its worth it, i may aswell pay more and get a brand spanker with the spec i want.
How long is the 8-10% discount gonna last on these as id prefer to put a bigger deposit down after christmas?
Also does it still have a dct or has it got the step-auto?
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I'll help.
I got 10% discount, 5 years free servicing and 4.9% APR - meaning it's cheaper to buy a new car than a used. You can't borrow money for double that these days.
'Box is a new version of the ZF8-speed auto with various modes, and by all accounts is fantastic and really suits the torquey motor. Not like a traditional slushbox at all. I've only driven a 5 series with it, but was very impressed. I've gone manual though.
Drive one. If you can get around the odd looks, it's really a fantastic car.
I believe the 4.9% is running until Spring, and I don't see why you can't get 10% - you just have to catch the right dealer on the right day. I'll happily put you in touch with the guy who sold me mine, he's been excellent.
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I'll help.
I got 10% discount, 5 years free servicing and 4.9% APR - meaning it's cheaper to buy a new car than a used. You can't borrow money for double that these days.
'Box is a new version of the ZF8-speed auto with various modes, and by all accounts is fantastic and really suits the torquey motor. Not like a traditional slushbox at all. I've only driven a 5 series with it, but was very impressed. I've gone manual though.
Drive one. If you can get around the odd looks, it's really a fantastic car.
I believe the 4.9% is running until Spring, and I don't see why you can't get 10% - you just have to catch the right dealer on the right day. I'll happily put you in touch with the guy who sold me mine, he's been excellent.
Cheers for that Mike and i know who your dealer is ive just read your thread on babybmw elms bedford. Based in west yorkshire though so a long way from me :sad1:
Off to stratstones leeds tomorrow see how i get on with discount and ill give you a shout if a trip to bedford is in order :happy2:
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Mike if you don't mind me asking what future value did they give you on the car or did you just do a full lease purchase at 4.9%? PM me if you like.
Thanks
Matt
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Rob, I'm up in Cheshire, I did the deal over the phone/email. Small deposit to get the order in and I'll settle the rest when I pick it up - any excuse for a road trip!!
Matt PCP GFV £16,800ish after 3 years,
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Is the GFV the guaranteed future value and is that the balloon payment at the end of the finance to lower the monthly payments? Again pm if you want :happy2:
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No, I don't mind discussing on here.
Yes, that's the guaranteed future value, this is set by BMW and cannot be altered. So this is the deferred amount that you play stick or twist with at the end of the 3 years. Considering the car is costing me less than £30k after discount, I've done quite well!
This is quite handy for calculating costs.
http://www.pcpcal.co.uk/
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Cheers for your help Mike :happy2:
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I love the look of this car , its different like the last one series, good choice :happy2:
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I'll help.
I got 10% discount, 5 years free servicing and 4.9% APR - meaning it's cheaper to buy a new car than a used. You can't borrow money for double that these days.
'Box is a new version of the ZF8-speed auto with various modes, and by all accounts is fantastic and really suits the torquey motor. Not like a traditional slushbox at all. I've only driven a 5 series with it, but was very impressed. I've gone manual though.
Drive one. If you can get around the odd looks, it's really a fantastic car.
I believe the 4.9% is running until Spring, and I don't see why you can't get 10% - you just have to catch the right dealer on the right day. I'll happily put you in touch with the guy who sold me mine, he's been excellent.
Ditto to what Mike has already said Rob.. The new 8 speed box is an absolute peach to be honest and in the short drive I have had of one (24hr test drive to come next week) I was hard pushed to notice the difference with DCT :surprised: Something I never thought I would say/admit as I was initially cursing BMW for dropping the DCT from non M cars :fighting: How wrong I was.. :ashamed:
I'm sure when I have had a longer drive in one, I am bound to notice some differences and I'm sure the DCT will be 0.0000001 of a flea's testicle when against the stopwatch. But for 99.9% of the time, I would be more than happy to go with this new box.
Oh and I can also vouch for the new models performance too. Whilst my mate had one on a 24hr test drive, we thought it would be rude not to put it against it's predecessor (stock Auto vs mapped DCT). Put it this way - I'm glad mine is mapped.. :signLOL:
Although it's looking like there won't be a huge amount of gains from a map on the M135i (being that it shares the same lump as mine but with a software tweak from the factory), in Auto trim and a trip to DMS, these things will run mid 12's all day long and that's without taking the child seat out the back and returning near 40mpg on the way home..
Just need to get past it's looks now.. :sad1: I'm getting there though.. :wink:
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I waved goodbye to the 135i last night, so I've got 6 long weeks of running around in the A6 of comfiness - I don't think I can deal with this much understeer in my life :sad1:
Have you seen the BMWP front lip? I can't make up my mind whether it looks better or not??
I've got to grips with everything apart from the upturned flick of the headlamps, it's just odd. The bulbous nose isn't actually like that in the metal, seems just an odd feature of pics.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bmwblog.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fbmw-performance-studie-01.jpg&hash=5c5c86529bbfd305c5b6b69feb38105b9b6ebf36)
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I spotted one like that above the other day full bmwp kit on it with that lip and the black stripe on the bottom edge of the doors and being honest it looked too after market almost a little chav and somehow looked wrong
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Ahh, the side skirts, yes, they're a bit much.
It looks like an afterthought, at least the one I had was a whole new bumper with some design consideration. I guess some others will come up with more stuff soon enough too.
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Rob, I'm up in Cheshire, I did the deal over the phone/email. Small deposit to get the order in and I'll settle the rest when I pick it up - any excuse for a road trip!!
Matt PCP GFV £16,800ish after 3 years,
Pretty good GFV. With a £5k deposit, it looks like around £313 p/m. Which is amazing value. Stick £8k deposit in, and you are down in the £200s.
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If you're going to stick a load of cash in, then you may as well use the 50/50 and get 0% finance!
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So if i sold my ed30 for 10K...... :popcornsoda:
... ill keep dreaming! :signLOL:
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I spotted one like that above the other day full bmwp kit on it with that lip and the black stripe on the bottom edge of the doors and being honest it looked too after market almost a little chav and somehow looked wrong
Hate to admit it, but I agree with Mat on this.. :sad1: :laugh:
From the first day the F20 was released, I was eager to see what BMWP bits were going to be available and how they would look (beef up the exterior).. Unfortunately, after seeing a showroom car kitted up to the hilt with the full kit, I was left very disappointed.. :sad1: It's not that it looks horrific or anything like that, it's exactly how Mat says - very very aftermarket.
The CF spoiler has been replaced with a cheap plastic alternative. The front bumper seems to be just a collection of plastic lips and fake ducts (unlike the old version that was at least effective in brake cooling etc as well as looking nice) and the side skirts are OTT etc etc. So you would think that with this lack of quality and cost/corner cutting, the price would reflect this......... Er..... no. Still completely ridiculous. At least the previous model's parts were worth stumping up the cash for (CF parts etc).
The only thing that I did like the look of to a certain degree was the wheels. But at £3600 a set, I can't see them flying off the shelves either tbh.
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Yup, it's all a bit low rent.
I'd consider a carbon version of the rear spoiler.
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Yup, it's all a bit low rent.
I'd consider a carbon version of the rear spoiler.
Most definitely :happy2: Don't think it'll be long until someone launches one either. :party:
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Sport Auto have had their mitts on it. Full lap of the Ring - 8:18.
They've slung a manual around, and it's 4 seconds faster than the E46 M3 and 2 seconds faster than the RS3. Not sure how much more time the 8sp manual would buy you?? It's only fair to assume the tyres buy it a bit more time too, compared to these two comparisons.
Interestingly though, they also do some stats. Seems their base car made 340hp & 363ft/lb - Complete dyno lottery, but explains why it seems quicker than it should be.
Gearbox: 6-speed-manual
Dyno-power: 340 hp @ 5765 rpm
Dyno-torque: 493 Nm @ 2955 rpm
Tyres: Michelin Pilot Super Sport
Aerodynamics: Cw 0,31
Weight: 1520 kg
0-100 km/h: 4,9 s
0-160 km/h: 11,5 s
0-200 km/h: 18,1 s
Flexibility (80-120 km/h) in 5th/6th gear: 5,2 s/6,4 s
18 m slalom: 69,8 km/h
36 m slalom: 134 km/h
110 m ISO evasive test: 145 km/h
Braking (100-0 km/h), warm: 34,0 m (-1,16 g)
Hockenheimring: 1.15,7 min (Driven by Horst von Saurma, Air temperature: 13 Degrees C, warm tyre-pressure: 2,4 bar)
Nürburgring-Nordschleife: 8.17,5 min (Driven by Horst von Saurma, Air temperature: 14 Degrees C, warm tyre-pressure: 2,4 bar)