MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: iainalpine on June 17, 2009, 12:11:01 pm
-
Hi guys. Im getting the revo stage 2 carried out, induction on already, exhaust at the weekend and software getting done next week. I no whats going to happen next, i will end up getting the stage 2+ done in the very near future.
I was wondering who was all running the stage 2+ on MKV GTI's with DSG and how they found the car felt with it on. I no the torque may be an issue with the box but have been reading that there good for quite a bit and it was nothing to worry about. WHats your thoughts on this.
Cheers
Iain
-
Torque will not be a problem at all fella its good for 500+nm easy
-
The box can easily handle that amount on a normal GTI, Jonny C and Hurdy are way above withut any issues as yet.
Dont you need extra cooling for stage 2+ :smiley:
-
Have a looksie here...
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3571.0
To be honest, I can't see me going for stage 2+ without an LSD and that doesn't fit in with my 'removable' mods policy. It is however FAPPING quick compared to stage 1.
-
youl need a cooler and hpfp for stage 2+ :happy2:
-
The box can easily handle that amount on a normal GTI, Jonny C and Hurdy are way above withut any issues as yet.
Dont you need extra cooling for stage 2+ :smiley:
Yes the extra cooling is highly recommend but it can be run on the stock IC (Revo did this on their demo Leon for a while). :happy2:
-
I thought it mite need the front mount. What are the guys using on cars with DSG. I no there slightly different sizing compared to manual boxes.
Real quick replies there lads. You lot must have a nice easy job like me :signLOL: :drinking:
Iain
-
I am going Stage 2+ tomorrow and will be running the stock IC for about 1 week then I will be getting one of these - http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5274.0 :evilgrin:
-
My forge twintercooler has just arrived and is sitting on the floor next to my S3 IC at mats :party: :jumpmove:
-
I thought it mite need the front mount. What are the guys using on cars with DSG. I no there slightly different sizing compared to manual boxes.
Real quick replies there lads. You lot must have a nice easy job like me :signLOL: :drinking:
Iain
Different intercooler?? I think it might just be a pipe that's slightly different?? someone will correct me.
Easy job - I'm sat here watching a million lines of config go onto a router, seemingly at the kind of speeds last experienced when loading Daley Thomson's Decathlon onto my Spectrum...
-
My forge twintercooler has just arrived and is sitting on the floor next to my S3 IC at mats :party: :jumpmove:
it sure is :drool:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fd122%2Fmat138l%2Fforgefrontmount001.jpg&hash=86360beffbbe9e2c88438912f21d7025186a7717)
-
To be honest, I can't see me going for stage 2+ without an LSD
....It's amazing how many people have tunnel vision and don't consider how best to use all that extra power at the front wheels.
-
So guys, what change are you finding with the stage 2 in place? Is there a massive change? Better spread of power? Change in your MPG?
Is anyone having problems with fueling on the stage 2?
Iain
-
My forge twintercooler has just arrived and is sitting on the floor next to my S3 IC at mats :party: :jumpmove:
it sure is :drool:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fd122%2Fmat138l%2Fforgefrontmount001.jpg&hash=86360beffbbe9e2c88438912f21d7025186a7717)
OMG :drool: :drool: :drool:
such an easy job, i may keep an eye out for a cheap one going the i can run s3 cooler and forge!! :drool:
-
i had fuel cuts with stage 2 bluefin when hammering it, not all the time but 2nd gear full throttle caused it occasionally
with the apr fuel pump installed this put a stop to it, now revo 2+ and the performance is savage throughout the rev range :happy2:
-
So guys, what change are you finding with the stage 2 in place? Is there a massive change? Better spread of power? Change in your MPG?
Is anyone having problems with fueling on the stage 2?
Iain
On the K03 if you wind the boost up then yeah you may experience fuel cuts when loading the car e.g. going up a hill in a high gear/or high gear acceleration on the motorway. What intake do you have? This will have a big influence on whether you get any fuel cuts.
-
So guys, what change are you finding with the stage 2 in place? Is there a massive change? Better spread of power? Change in your MPG?
Is anyone having problems with fueling on the stage 2?
Iain
The stage 2 on mine made a massive difference, wheel spin was cut considerably as the delivery seemed a whole lot smoother, and it just keeps pulling all the way to change up. :happy2:
When i went stage one and first got chance to press the loud pedal, i would give the improvement and thrill factor a 9 out of ten. :smiley:
When i then went stage 2 i would give it a 8 out of 10 for both again. :jumpmove:
Maybe it was just me but it was the best £50 quid i have spent on it so far.
-
[/quote]
On the K03 if you wind the boost up then yeah you may experience fuel cuts when loading the car e.g. going up a hill in a high gear/or high gear acceleration on the motorway. What intake do you have? This will have a big influence on whether you get any fuel cuts.
[/quote]
WhiteGTI, i am running a carbonio induction kit (Hurdies old one). I take it if its evoms etc you would be more likely to get fuel cut due to the large amount of air intake?
Iain
-
Ahh ok, I too have the Carbonio. Correct, as you say...with the Carbonio you can wind the boost up a little bit more because it isn't allowing as much air in as an EVOMS etc, however I was advised by Keith at JKM that even with the Carbonio if you put the boost past 7 then it may cause cuts.
E.g. on my car when the boost is set to 7, the requested fuel is very close to the max that the stock pump can provide ( i forget the actual number), so surely if i set my boost on 8, then I will experience some problems. But every car reacts differently to it, so its best just to datalog it via VCDS to see how your car performs.
:smiley:
-
I am going Stage 2+ tomorrow and will be running the stock IC for about 1 week then I will be getting one of these - http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5274.0 :evilgrin:
Good man, didn't think it would take you long mate... :signLOL: Are we likely to see a nice report on it in the next couple of days Steve. Be interested to hear your thoughts.. :wink:
You getting the software for the DSG too mate?
-
^^^ Yes once I am back from the father land I will be doing a write up :happy2:
Yes once Revo release the DSG software I will be over to Daventry as soon as I can :driver:
-
^^^^
But you're on an Ed30 with Bluefin, James - Iain is on a GTI with Revo (like mine).
I've had no problems with either Revo1 or Revo2 which have needed an aftermarket HPFP. I've specifically asked JKM to keep an eye on such things whenever they dyno my car (regularly done as diagnosis of health).
-
Yes once I am back from the father land I will be doing a write up :happy2:
....Steve is off to see his relatives and we are providing an escort and supply convoy.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2FHitler.jpg&hash=c4b8914e9c62ed64a3e256f804d546c7a2ff9818)
-
^^^^
But you're on an Ed30 with Bluefin, James - Iain is on a GTI with Revo (like mine).
I've had no problems with either Revo1 or Revo2 which have needed an aftermarket HPFP. I've specifically asked JKM to keep an eye on such things whenever they dyno my car (regularly done as diagnosis of health).
Check his signature Robin he has also converted to the Revo side :smiley:
-
^^^^
But you're on an Ed30 with Bluefin, James - Iain is on a GTI with Revo (like mine).
I've had no problems with either Revo1 or Revo2 which have needed an aftermarket HPFP. I've specifically asked JKM to keep an eye on such things whenever they dyno my car (regularly done as diagnosis of health).
i changed a month or so ago to the revo 2+, just after I had the giac dsg map done as the bluefin map did not remove the soft limiter so it did not make full use of the dsg map. I asked SC to see if they could help but no, so changed.
-
^^^^
Thanks, James - I missed that info about you changing remaps.
:happy2: 8) :happy2:
-
^^^^
But you're on an Ed30 with Bluefin, James - Iain is on a GTI with Revo (like mine).
I've had no problems with either Revo1 or Revo2 which have needed an aftermarket HPFP. I've specifically asked JKM to keep an eye on such things whenever they dyno my car (regularly done as diagnosis of health).
i changed a month or so ago to the revo 2+, just after I had the giac dsg map done as the bluefin map did not remove the soft limiter so it did not make full use of the dsg map. I asked SC to see if they could help but no, so changed.
How are you finding the change James? As that's a nice list of mods you got there mate..
-
^^^^^
:happy2: very happy mate
difference betwen the SC 2+ map I had on and the Revo 2+ is astonishing, it was like going from stock to remap all over again!
imo when you haven't compared the SC to another map you think its good, but after about an hour after driving out of AMD Tek in Woking (great service from Simon there!), I had the biggest smile on my face :jumping:
the power now is just savage, boost comes on earlier and just keeps on going right up to 7krpm, according to the defi gauge its spikes at 27psi and holds around 23psi that is with Boost on 8, yet to try 9... :party:
should have listended to TT a year ago!
-
Ahh ok, I too have the Carbonio. Correct, as you say...with the Carbonio you can wind the boost up a little bit more because it isn't allowing as much air in as an EVOMS etc, however I was advised by Keith at JKM that even with the Carbonio if you put the boost past 7 then it may cause cuts.
E.g. on my car when the boost is set to 7, the requested fuel is very close to the max that the stock pump can provide ( i forget the actual number), so surely if i set my boost on 8, then I will experience some problems. But every car reacts differently to it, so its best just to datalog it via VCDS to see how your car performs.
:smiley:
Definitely increases the risk/likelihood of cuts - let me know when you want some logging done :happy2:
-
^^^^^
:happy2: very happy mate
difference betwen the SC 2+ map I had on and the Revo 2+ is astonishing, it was like going from stock to remap all over again!
imo when you haven't compared the SC to another map you think its good, but after about an hour after driving out of AMD Tek in Woking (great service from Simon there!), I had the biggest smile on my face :jumping:
the power now is just savage, boost comes on earlier and just keeps on going right up to 7krpm, according to the defi gauge its spikes at 27psi and holds around 23psi that is with Boost on 8, yet to try 9... :party:
should have listended to TT a year ago!
I'm jealous.. I want it now.. :sad:
-
Well,
After the milly, Forge DV and the carbonio I was suffering boost spikes which in turn led to fuel cuts on Bluefin Stage 2. I had SC modify the boost request in the mapping to control spool-up and smooth the spikes which solved the fuel cut issue (which is basically what Revo are doing with the select settings some of you guys run).
Today, I was at AmD in essex with the car and did a bit of diagnosis, testing and replacing
To prepare Superchips supplied me with 3 maps to install :
My specially modified Stage 2 map :
I re-installed this map at 05:00 this morning after trying my old stage 1 map again over the weekend (stage 1 Bluefin on a hardware modified car does not work - especially if you've fitted a downpipe and race cat - the lack of a pre-cat really reduces backpressure and subsequently allows the car to develop more boost than the stock stage 1 bluefin maps knows what to do with.) and drove from my place in NL to Essex UK via the EuroTunnel. So the map was well adapted.
First run on their dyno resulted in the following peak measurements : 260.8 HP @ 5422 RPM and 281 lb/ft at 3487 RPM - pretty much what a stage 2 map with a milly should do on a normal GTI. But as you can see from the Dyno graph, the flat spots I was complaining about are quite clear.
After having a good diagnostics going over on the car, AmD checked the cam, and cam follower on my fuel pump, removed the fuel pump and fitted the uprated Autotech HPFP internals.
After testing the car, using the same BF map as the first run, they did a dyno run to show the effect that the uprated fuel pump alone had on the running of the car.
The resultant peak measurement was 267.5HP @ 5413 RPM and 304.9 lb/ft @ 3492 RPM - now the car could fuel for the boost being requested and as a result the ECU could adapt timing etc to be 'happier'.
Now the other software: SC provided a fall back HPFP adaptation of the normal stage 2 map that would work if all went wrong and a specially developed more aggressive Stage 2 + map specifically for cars running with an uprated HPFP. We decided to install the stage 2 + map for the uprated HPFP. After adaptation, AmD did a dyno run :
This time with effect of the SC Stage 2+ map and the HPFP the resultant peak was : 274.2HP @ 5431 RPM and 310.8 lb/ft @ 3492 RPM.
The biggest difference though is the shape of the torque curve : it really filled out and was much flatter than before. Comparing what I had and the result shows a 40lb/ft of torque delta from around 3200rpm to around 4500 rpm.
The result : me a happy chappy, the car driving extremely well and with no hint of fuel cut or flat spot, just a solid linear surge of power.
BIG BIG thanks to Superchips, Michael Alvey-Anderson and AmD in Essex, Sean and his team. :happy2: :happy2: :happy2:
Here are the graphs :
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fss275%2Fmarkcanderson%2Fscan0001.jpg&hash=48ef95f7d8fec2ef1264206c8bc8712f63881261)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fss275%2Fmarkcanderson%2Fscan0002.jpg&hash=0bdf473cd52bffc240543ae71f88c07a0a98df24)
All these runs were done with the following fitted to my car :
Normal 2007 GTI 2.0. TFSI (BDA)
Milltek Hiflow Downpipe
Milltek HiFlow Cat
Milltek Resonated Exhaust
Carbonio intake
ITG Panel filter
Forge DV
and then for run 1 : Customised SC Bluefin stage 2 map
and then for run 2 : Customised SC Bluefin stage 2 map + Autotech uprated High Pressure Fuel Pump
and then ror run 3 : SC Bluefin Stage 2 (+) map + Autotech uprated High Pressure Fuel Pump
-
Certainly looks like they've got it cracked.
What does the fuel cut feel like?? I noticed at 120+ and foot on the floor at the ring last month there was a stuttering coming through the chassis.. but only when hot. I'm thinking either it was knocking the timing back or I was getting mild fuel cut?
-
Certainly looks like they've got it cracked.
What does the fuel cut feel like?? I noticed at 120+ and foot on the floor at the ring last month there was a stuttering coming through the chassis.. but only when hot. I'm thinking either it was knocking the timing back or I was getting mild fuel cut?
It can feel like a flat spot where as revs rise the acceleration seems to back off a bit and then comes back a bit. Or if you've got a lot of load on the engine, then the ECU will protect itself by closing the throttle automatically even although you've got your foot on the accelerator (when it does that you will get a DTC code on the ECU).
What you are feeling as a stuttering sounds more like a coil-pack breaking down under load causing a slight misfire. (that should also log in Vagcom as a DTC).
-
Hmm - it only had 4 new coilpacks and plugs before I went away...
I need some Vadgecom action, no point guessing I suppose.
-
This is turning out to be real interesting thread here guys. :happy2:
Think i will be running the stage 2 for a while and save some cash for the FMIC. the twin cooler looks good, would you guys say thats the best one to go for.
Iain
-
This is turning out to be real interesting thread here guys. :happy2:
Think i will be running the stage 2 for a while and save some cash for the FMIC. the twin cooler looks good, would you guys say thats the best one to go for.
Iain
IMO the APR IC is better than the twintercooler setup although the twintercooler is easier to install.
-
the twin cooler looks good, would you guys say thats the best one to go for.
Iain
IMO the APR IC is better than the twintercooler setup although the twintercooler is easier to install.
....I'm not challenging or disputing whether the APR IC is better or not but am curious why you think so. Bigger side tanks? Better core system?
Do you think that the APR is a better setup than the S3+Forge Twintercooler together?
Cheers :happy2:
-
I think on the whole APR stuff is overlooked by many to be honest....
I've had numerous comments from tuners saying that my APR tbe shows more torque than other exhaust systems.
A lot of VAG tuners regard the APR fuel pump as the best around.
Again, a lot of VAG tuners regard the APR intercooler as vastly superior to the others on the market.
This isn't my personal viewpoint, but just comments from industry professionals that I've picked up on along my long journey modifying my GTI.
:smiley:
-
The larger core, good design cooling and the ability to cater for bigger turbos outputs without noticable heatsoak would be my response.
As for the APR vs S3+twintercooler, I don't really know as too few out there are using the S3+twintercooler setup and reporting back on their findings.
-
....
I think that the S3 IC is a cheaper and easier option to install by most accounts.
Forge and APR have a very unpleasant rivalry - Always slagging each other off unfortunately - It's all over the American forums and they are both forum sponsors too!!
-
Forge and APR have a very unpleasant rivalry - Always slagging each other off unfortunately - It's all over the American forums and they are both forum sponsors too!!
Oh, I didn't know about that!
-
Forge and APR have a very unpleasant rivalry - Always slagging each other off unfortunately - It's all over the American forums and they are both forum sponsors too!!
Oh, I didn't know about that!
been like that for years :rolleye: for me the s3+forge fmic looks a very nice setup and once this one is fitted to Tc car i am sure we will see what he thinks and as it just been on the rollers we can see what effect it has on the car.
-
Mine's in for it DSG investigations this morning and they told me they were doing a recall on it too for a fuel pressure sensor - so maybe I'm going to get lucky with that being my issue.
I/C I'm not sold on the Twintercooler set up for a K03 car personally, 2 reasons.
1. The splitting of the hoses between the 2 'coolers is inefficient and will lose boost IMO. Simple flow dynamics. The difference in temp/pressure between the 2 outcoming flows niggles me too.
2. The combined core is too big and will potentially cause lag in certain circumstances. From a stand it's ok, as the car isn't using all the boost it is making and can build pressure in the system.. going round a fast long bend holding say 5000rpm and then hitting the throttle, there could be a flat spot, again IMO
The APR one looks good, but it's hideously expensive. I'd be looking at the S3/THS, depending on what turbo you have.
EDITED so not to sound so arsy! ha ha
-
^^^ Yeah you're right, I forgot to say this in my post....the APR stuff is generally more expensive than other alternatives!
-
have u ever seen the s3 ic and apr ic side by side its like apr just stamped there name on the s3 cooler :laugh:
-
I did some logs on mine (running standard ic plus forge twintercooler) last time I was at Revo..
The ambient was 26 degrees and after a LONG pull the most we saw was 33 degrees inlet temps, quickly recovering back to 30-31 degrees.. Dont think there is anything wrong with that?
Forge cooler is ace, and more than enough for the K04 and probably a big turbo too..
The way it come across to me is that APR bash other companies products, scare monger people in to buying APR, and its pretty well known that APR give out products to big players on the forums to win them over AND employ people who's only job seems to be to go on forums and do the above.. Its all there written in the posts, and pretty blatant if you ask me..
I dont like the way APR go about things, and for that reason would never buy anything from them..
(you never know, now I have slagged them off a bit I may get a fuel pump and intercooler arriving through my door, I know for a fact that has happened to a few guys in the states)
Also.. Full APR tuned K04 car, APR map, APR Fuel pump, APR Intercooler, 'approved' intake, APR Turbo back exhaust etc etc etc made 44bhp and 48ft/lbs torque less than my car on the same rollers, same day (about 10mins apart) compared to my Revo and Forge tuned car..
Wander how they would explain that one.. :wink:
-
Wow, very very interesting! Thanks for shedding some light into the debate! :smiley: :smiley:
-
....
So if we put the APR IC aside, we are left with stock cooler plus Forge Twintercooler vs S3 cooler on its own as a replacement.
I guess that the advantage of the stock+twinter is that the stock is known to be pretty efficient and the twinter is directly right upfront as a kinda boost - Does that make sense? That's what you've got isn't it, Jonny?
-
....
So if we put the APR IC aside, we are left with stock cooler plus Forge Twintercooler vs S3 cooler on its own as a replacement.
I guess that the advantage of the stock+twinter is that the stock is known to be pretty efficient and the twinter is directly right upfront as a kinda boost - Does that make sense? That's what you've got isn't it, Jonny?
Stock plus Twintercooler is 'better' than the S3 cooler, its been proven with numbers.. The reason you would go for the S3 over the Twintercooler is for price only IMO
As for S3 plus Twintecooler im not sure, dont think many have numbers for that, or have even tried it.. Yet
-
^^^^
Thanks, Jonny - That's helped my decision if I ever get an IC.
:smiley:
-
have u ever seen the s3 ic and apr ic side by side its like apr just stamped there name on the s3 cooler :laugh:
sound like the billyboat exhaust thingy then!! http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90758
-
have u ever seen the s3 ic and apr ic side by side its like apr just stamped there name on the s3 cooler :laugh:
Intercooler widths anybody got sizes for pro alloy or THS
GTI - 32mm
S3 - 40mm
APR - 57mm
Piping diameter
GTI - 53mm
S3 - 48mm
APR - 57mm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fy115%2Fjonsmout%2Fintercooler_mkv_vergleich.jpg&hash=c42432a451ceda2636a2883f4147ee0b658c94e2)
-
Also.. Full APR tuned K04 car, APR map, APR Fuel pump, APR Intercooler, 'approved' intake, APR Turbo back exhaust etc etc etc made 44bhp and 48ft/lbs torque less than my car on the same rollers, same day (about 10mins apart) compared to my Revo and Forge tuned car..
Wander how they would explain that one.. :wink:
Whose car is that you're referring to? Is it a Seat Leon Cupra by any chance??
-
Is it not the Ottenger IC that is just the Audi S3 rebadged?
I was thinking of upgrading to the Forge twintercooler to enhance my S3 IC.
-
Is it not the Ottenger IC that is just the Audi S3 rebadged?
It is...
-
Is it not the Ottenger IC that is just the Audi S3 rebadged?
It is...
oops my bad lol i forgot it was that one not the apr :rolleye:
-
Also.. Full APR tuned K04 car, APR map, APR Fuel pump, APR Intercooler, 'approved' intake, APR Turbo back exhaust etc etc etc made 44bhp and 48ft/lbs torque less than my car on the same rollers, same day (about 10mins apart) compared to my Revo and Forge tuned car..
Wander how they would explain that one.. :wink:
Whose car is that you're referring to? Is it a Seat Leon Cupra by any chance??
Sounds like Marks.. :wink:
Jonny, what did yours get when on the rollers in the end?
-
Also.. Full APR tuned K04 car, APR map, APR Fuel pump, APR Intercooler, 'approved' intake, APR Turbo back exhaust etc etc etc made 44bhp and 48ft/lbs torque less than my car on the same rollers, same day (about 10mins apart) compared to my Revo and Forge tuned car..
Wander how they would explain that one.. :wink:
Whose car is that you're referring to? Is it a Seat Leon Cupra by any chance??
Sounds like Marks.. :wink:
Jonny, what did yours get when on the rollers in the end?
jonnyc - 351bhp
ZBOYD - 307.3bhp
-
351bhp on a DD roller is damn impressive! it might have read 400bhp on the SC rollers in that case!
Surprised Mark's Leon was that low. I'm sure he's had over 350bhp on Awesome's own rollers before.
-
There was some strange results
269bhp standard
290.5bhp apr stage 2+
335.2bhp giac with full stage 2+ mods and hammer map this ones pulled 363 else were not sure on what rollers
I know zboyd has had a 335 at awesome.
-
Also.. Full APR tuned K04 car, APR map, APR Fuel pump, APR Intercooler, 'approved' intake, APR Turbo back exhaust etc etc etc made 44bhp and 48ft/lbs torque less than my car on the same rollers, same day (about 10mins apart) compared to my Revo and Forge tuned car..
Wander how they would explain that one.. :wink:
Whose car is that you're referring to? Is it a Seat Leon Cupra by any chance??
Sounds like Marks.. :wink:
Jonny, what did yours get when on the rollers in the end?
jonnyc - 351bhp
ZBOYD - 307.3bhp
When and where was this mate?
-
RS Tuning Leeds end of may
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=205077&page=8
-
351bhp on a DD roller is damn impressive! it might have read 400bhp on the SC rollers in that case!
Surprised Mark's Leon was that low. I'm sure he's had over 350bhp on Awesome's own rollers before.
Thats what I thought..
Mine made 351hp and 380ft/lbs on the DD rollers, it would have been over 400hp and 400+ft/lbs for sure..
Only RR day I have been on with mine up to now anyways so nothing to compare to..
All I know is that the rollers seemed to be about 10-15% down on what everyone was expecting / has seen previously..
-
I was speaking to Cohiba recently and he mentioned that his motor made 350 BHP on the same RR day :surprised: I think his car is running GIAC software. Really impressive figures for DD rollers. Like you say Jonny 400+ on other rollers. Your cars must be stupid fast :evilgrin:
-
Cohiba is running apr parts :happy2: Think he had all his work done at awesome
-
Cohiba is running apr parts :happy2: Think he had all his work done at awesome
most of his work :signLOL:
-
engine mods :signLOL:, vwr sorted the handling :driver:
-
I spoke to him at Awesome a week ago and 100% he said he was running GIAC, all his hardware mods are APR but he switched maps :scared:
-
Jonnys bhp figures sound about right. Superchips daydream believe machine would show you 400 ponnies easy, but why would you want inaccurate figures??. DD's are one of the most accurate.
imo of course :laugh:
-
Okay,
For a rough calculation, my car ran 325bhp on the same day Zboyd (Mark) made 333bhp, so by the same calculation mine would have achieved 297bhp on the DD rollers - as the cars stood at the time! Mark hasn't had any extra mods since last time he ran, but I have had the EVOM's intake and the DSG remap.
EVOM's has shown that it gives an improvement of around 6 to 7bhp over the Carbonio/filter (which I had last time)
The DSG map shows a 13-15 bhp increase for sure as my peak power before came in lower than the 6542rpm max I can get now.
Roughly that would show an overall increase of between 19 and 22bhp over the 297 I would have previously had. So, on the DD rollers I would have most likely made around 316 to 319bhp, which again would concur with what we have already thought about the Superchips RR overreading and also the DD underreading.!
Ouch, all those calculations made my head hurt :signLOL:
Could be time to go REVO!!!
Do you guys agree with the calcs?
-
agree with you calculations john, but just not the under-reading statement though.
If a standard car shows a stock figure on that particular RR, then a modified version goes on, how can it be called Under-reading??. That doesnt make sense.
-
agree with you calculations john, but just not the under-reading statement though.
If a standard car shows a stock figure on that particular RR, then a modified version goes on, how can it be called Under-reading??. That doesnt make sense.
Agreed,
But everything is comparative, as who is to say whether the DD rollers are spot on or some other rollers are spot on?
Cars make stock outputs on DD rollers even when using 99ron fuel, wheras 95 ron fuel is what the standard GTI's give figures from. Ergo it is likely that the DD rollers could underread to some degree.
-
I agree with that Hurdy, I personally think that they underread a little :happy2:
-
Stock cars are not really a great benchmark to work from as they vary massively..
That has been proved on RR days before, stock cars making massively different torque and power figures..
I think the DD rollers under read too.. Just based on my car having 350bhp and what it can do etc and how it feels.. I know I have weight out of it but its hardly a light car and up to now nothing this side of a 997 GT2 has pulled on it, and even that wasn't a piss take.. Not bad for 350hp lol..
Shame I couldnt make it to the Superchips day, would have been a really good comparison to the DD rollers day..
Either way, generally speaking like for like mods, Revo makes the most power and torque..
-
Stock cars are not really a great benchmark to work from as they vary massively..
That has been proved on RR days before, stock cars making massively different torque and power figures..
I think the DD rollers under read too.. Just based on my car having 350bhp and what it can do etc and how it feels.. I know I have weight out of it but its hardly a light car and up to now nothing this side of a 997 GT2 has pulled on it, and even that wasn't a piss take.. Not bad for 350hp lol..
Shame I couldnt make it to the Superchips day, would have been a really good comparison to the DD rollers day..
Either way, generally speaking like for like mods, Revo makes the most power and torque..
Bugger!!
I knew you were going to say that.......where's my wallet :sad1:
-
Stock cars are not really a great benchmark to work from as they vary massively..
That has been proved on RR days before, stock cars making massively different torque and power figures..
I think the DD rollers under read too.. Just based on my car having 350bhp and what it can do etc and how it feels.. I know I have weight out of it but its hardly a light car and up to now nothing this side of a 997 GT2 has pulled on it, and even that wasn't a piss take.. Not bad for 350hp lol..
Shame I couldnt make it to the Superchips day, would have been a really good comparison to the DD rollers day..
Either way, generally speaking like for like mods, Revo makes the most power and torque..
Bugger!!
I knew you were going to say that.......where's my wallet :sad1:
Get it done at GTI International..
Do a run with CC software, then see how much faster you go with Revo! :happy2:
-
Stock cars are not really a great benchmark to work from as they vary massively..
That has been proved on RR days before, stock cars making massively different torque and power figures..
I think the DD rollers under read too.. Just based on my car having 350bhp and what it can do etc and how it feels.. I know I have weight out of it but its hardly a light car and up to now nothing this side of a 997 GT2 has pulled on it, and even that wasn't a piss take.. Not bad for 350hp lol..
Shame I couldnt make it to the Superchips day, would have been a really good comparison to the DD rollers day..
Either way, generally speaking like for like mods, Revo makes the most power and torque..
Bugger!!
I knew you were going to say that.......where's my wallet :sad1:
Get it done at GTI International..
Do a run with CC software, then see how much faster you go with Revo! :happy2:
That is a top idea :happy2: :jumping:
Direct comparison FTW :happy2:
I wonder what JBS would say if they spotted me chopping from their map to REVO's :grin:
How much is it again for the stage 2+ and the handheld?
-
Either way, generally speaking like for like mods, Revo makes the most power and torque..
Yep, completely agree with you. I did a lot of research before getting my map, and I found exactly the same. Revo tended to be a good 3-5% higher on average than others :smiley:
-
Stock cars are not really a great benchmark to work from as they vary massively..
That has been proved on RR days before, stock cars making massively different torque and power figures..
I think the DD rollers under read too.. Just based on my car having 350bhp and what it can do etc and how it feels.. I know I have weight out of it but its hardly a light car and up to now nothing this side of a 997 GT2 has pulled on it, and even that wasn't a piss take.. Not bad for 350hp lol..
Shame I couldnt make it to the Superchips day, would have been a really good comparison to the DD rollers day..
Either way, generally speaking like for like mods, Revo makes the most power and torque..
Bugger!!
I knew you were going to say that.......where's my wallet :sad1:
Get it done at GTI International..
Do a run with CC software, then see how much faster you go with Revo! :happy2:
That is a top idea :happy2: :jumping:
Direct comparison FTW :happy2:
I wonder what JBS would say if they spotted me chopping from their map to REVO's :grin:
How much is it again for the stage 2+ and the handheld?
Cant imagine you would be particularly popular lol.. Best speaking to Carl at Revo mate, can't remember how much it is to be honest..
-
Do it hurdy the last 800 miles and a few laps of the ring have confirmed to me the revo stage 2+ was a very good choice :evilgrin:
-
REVO were doing deals at last years Inters, mainly because the Custom Code boys were, I think, but it was mighty cheap.
-
Some good stuff going on here guys. got the full milltek fitted at the weekend and the car is feeling as flat as a midgies tit so cant wait till the stg2 gets dropped on. was talking to jim at star performnce and he was talking about the HPFP. he has been fitting the uprated internals which seem to be a good bit cheaper than the new pumps. is there any advantage to getting the new pump over an internal swap?
Ended up going with the non res milltek and am glad i did as its fine on the motorway at cruise and really only starts shouting when you full on the loud pedal.
I hope to get the new software on the car this week everyhting going to plan.
Iain
-
That is a top idea :happy2: :jumping:
Direct comparison FTW :happy2:
I wonder what JBS would say if they spotted me chopping from their map to REVO's :grin:
How much is it again for the stage 2+ and the handheld?
Do remember that the new software will need an adaption period to show you its full potential... :smiley:
-
@jonnyc : have you got a dyno plot from the DD run you can share ? be good to see the shape :happy2:
did you run with the Toyos on that day?
out of interest do you have a before (i.e. std) dyno plot way back in the day.
@ SteveP : which HPFP you running then ?
in general I would agree DD rollers are pessimistic (in comparison to all other rollers) but very reproducible.
(I would however say Im not entirely convinced about DSG vs Manual readings on any RRoads)
Given that most mapping companies will quite happily flash your software back on , then some comparitive tests dont sound too bad an idea ... (the only downside I see is having to flash to stock each time and the flash counter being incremented as you go between diff vendor maps (SC aside I believe))
-
REVO were doing deals at last years Inters, mainly because the Custom Code boys were, I think, but it was mighty cheap.
nope..... it's just because we're nice..... ;-) hence we do deals at most shows.
@Hurdy- it'd be worth taking Jonny's advice and coming over and seeing us :)
@Steve- Glad to hear you're happy mate!
-
REVO were doing deals at last years Inters, mainly because the Custom Code boys were, I think, but it was mighty cheap.
nope..... it's just because we're nice..... ;-) hence we do deals at most shows.
@Hurdy- it'd be worth taking Jonny's advice and coming over and seeing us :)
@Steve- Glad to hear you're happy mate!
so how much would it be for you to put the revo sofwere on my ko3 gti, i have everything except hpfp to go stage 2 +. il be at inters next weeken. :smiley:
-
REVO were doing deals at last years Inters, mainly because the Custom Code boys were, I think, but it was mighty cheap.
nope..... it's just because we're nice..... ;-) hence we do deals at most shows.
Sorry Carl. It goes without saying that you're nice. :wink:
-
i am going to try and get the pump done this week so i can come see u guys on sunday for my upgrade to 2+ unless u have some pumps instock :smiley:
-
so how much would it be for you to put the revo sofwere on my ko3 gti, i have everything except hpfp to go stage 2 +. il be at inters next weeken. :smiley:
can't say i'm afraid mate, but it'll be worth visiting the stand :smiley:
Sorry Carl. It goes without saying that you're nice. :wink:
Merci :wink:
i am going to try and get the pump done this week so i can come see u guys on sunday for my upgrade to 2+ unless u have some pumps instock :smiley:
no pumps here i'm afraid, but it'll be nice to see you again :smiley:
-
:happy2: just trying to sort the intake and pump before inters :laugh:
-
Stock cars are not really a great benchmark to work from as they vary massively..
That has been proved on RR days before, stock cars making massively different torque and power figures..
I think the DD rollers under read too.. Just based on my car having 350bhp and what it can do etc and how it feels.. I know I have weight out of it but its hardly a light car and up to now nothing this side of a 997 GT2 has pulled on it, and even that wasn't a piss take.. Not bad for 350hp lol..
Shame I couldnt make it to the Superchips day, would have been a really good comparison to the DD rollers day..
Either way, generally speaking like for like mods, Revo makes the most power and torque..
Exactly mate.. Have said for ages that the JKM results (DD rollers) don't really make a great deal of sense regarding the performance a tuned ED30.. :confused: Totally agree on the point of going on DD rollers as I would rather have a realistic power reading than a wet finger in the air. But I seem to remember a RR day at Weston Performance on DD rollers which resulted in a lot better figures than JKM, but on same rollers.. :confused:
Always wanted to put mine on JKM's rollers just to see what it would read, but never got the chance unfortunately :sad:. But can't help thinking though going off other tuned Ed30's that it would be sub 300bhp, which in regards to it's performance on the road makes no sense at all???
-
Do it hurdy the last 800 miles and a few laps of the ring have confirmed to me the revo stage 2+ was a very good choice :evilgrin:
Happy with it then I see mate? :laugh: Did you go for a uprated intake on it, if so which one?
-
@ SteveP : which HPFP you running then ?
I have the KDM HPFP, I sourced it myself and had the TT Shop fit it for me along with the Stage 2+ software flash. I was originally just going to get the autotech one but the prices had risen (due to shortages of the supply of these) so after some reading up choose the KMD as it was quite a bit cheaper.
Another write-up to follow :smiley:
-
@ SteveP : which HPFP you running then ?
I have the KDM HPFP, I sourced it myself and had the TT Shop fit it for me along with the Stage 2+ software flash. I was originally just going to get the autotech one but the prices had risen (due to shortages of the supply of these) so after some reading up choose the KMD as it was quite a bit cheaper.
Another write-up to follow :smiley:
Look forward to the write up Steve!
-
Do it hurdy the last 800 miles and a few laps of the ring have confirmed to me the revo stage 2+ was a very good choice :evilgrin:
Happy with it then I see mate? :laugh: Did you go for a uprated intake on it, if so which one?
None yet but one will follow very shortly :evilgrin:
-
Steve, you're slowly turning your car into quite a weapon aren't you!!! :rolleye:
-
Steve, you're slowly turning your car into quite a weapon aren't you!!! :rolleye:
What me :innocent:
-
Steve, you're slowly turning your car into quite a weapon aren't you!!! :rolleye:
What me :innocent:
m40 commuters :fighting:
-
....
Like SteveP, I've also just done a few laps of The 'Ring with Revo2 on K03 GTI and found it delivered the power whenever and wherever I wanted it. Not as fast as the Ed30 remapped cars but still very impressive. The 'Ring is very demanding and an excellent test circuit imo.
-
^^^ With what your have just put into yours you will love the Golf around the ring, I was really surprised how well they perform :smiley:
-
^^^^
As Steve says, the GTI is very well powered and balanced for The 'Ring. It started raining while I was out on a lap and I saw the Porsche behind me do a 360º spin and later a bike just run out of track going past me - No-one hurt or any damage in either case. Slowed down in the wet but I was very surprised indeed how well planted she stayed. No brake fade whatsoever at any time (AP Racing brakes).
-
The ring is'nt especially heavy on brakes IMO,nice flowing corners. Big brakes are an advantage as well tho,(when trying to reduce your lap times)
....Try telling that to a guy called Gary who was with us and went round in his diesel Passat - His brakes were pouring out smoke!!
But yes, I agree, The Ring not necessarily heavy on brakes but the point is that having such braking power is extremely reassuring. I was just going around as quickly as I could within my comfortable limits as a Ring newbe. In future I will be carefully exploring later/heavier braking as I am very much a 'slow-in and fast-out' kind of driver. But there are plenty places where heavy braking could very adversely unsettle the car. This is my kind of track - I'm utterly bored by the typical flat and featureless airfield type of track.
-
The ring claims another lol it's such an amazing place
-
Oh my god :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :grin: :grin: :grin: . Stage 2 now on car and im amazed at how it feels. pulls the whole way through the revs. Im lost for words. Roads i thought were great to drive up here have now got even better.
Im looking at buying a new fuel pump and HPFP plunger etc rather than going straight for the likes of the main players. Also still undecided on what front mount to go for but what i have decided on is the tarox 6 pot front brakes because by god i need them now.
Iain
P.S. pics up soon
-
^^^ Good to hear your pleased, just you wait until you get Stage 2+ with the pump :evilgrin:
I will let you know how the new THS Intercooler works next week as mines being fitted ready for Inters on Sunday :party: :party:
-
Oh my god :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :grin: :grin: :grin: . Stage 2 now on car and im amazed at how it feels. pulls the whole way through the revs. Im lost for words. Roads i thought were great to drive up here have now got even better.
Im looking at buying a new fuel pump and HPFP plunger etc rather than going straight for the likes of the main players. Also still undecided on what front mount to go for but what i have decided on is the tarox 6 pot front brakes because by god i need them now.
Iain
P.S. pics up soon
Told ya :grin:
-
^^^ Good to hear your pleased, just you wait until you get Stage 2+ with the pump :evilgrin:
I will let you know how the new THS Intercooler works next week as mines being fitted ready for Inters on Sunday :party: :party:
Stage 2+ and pump is a whole new level.. :happy2:
-
^^^ Oh yes, some scientific testing on the way to Germany with Greenouse in his Stage 2 ED30 proved that to me more than anything :driver:
-
You guys are like pole dancing drug dealing tarts! Soo tempting, all this teasing talk of upgrades and promises of hot performance!
Holiday first though, then I'll see what comes first, suspension mods, brakes or revo hmmm. Only when I had my revo trial I realised how mine the stock brakes were.
-
Cheers stevie. would be good if you could let us no how your IC is on the car.
Guys was wondering if it would be a good idea to post up our exact specs of our cars fitted with revo and what software version we have.
something along the lines
REVO stg 2, full milltek exhaust, carbonio induction, revo settings b=7, t=6 (i think), f=9
this might make it easier for others to setup there car and also good to see what everyone is running and how the power figures differ.
I no there is a revo zone but the thread there goes on and on and on and is a pain to find exacy info without going over it all.
cheers
Iain
-
We have a new Revo section in the performance area so I will start a thread there will a template for people to follow :happy2:
-
That would be great Stevie, as there seems to be more and more thing relating to Revo. Also there is a lot of guys using it that have valuable experience and info on it so a better structure to revo threads would help greatly.
cheers
Iain
-
Guys was wondering if it would be a good idea to post up our exact specs of our cars fitted with revo and what software version we have.
something along the lines
REVO stg 2, full milltek exhaust, carbonio induction, revo settings b=7, t=6 (i think), f=9
this might make it easier for others to setup there car and also good to see what everyone is running and how the power figures differ.
I no there is a revo zone but the thread there goes on and on and on and is a pain to find exacy info without going over it all.
cheers
Iain
....Helpful to some, but my understanding is that every car is different and so there is no fixed rule.
I, for one, do not want the responsibility of sharing setting info which consequently someone else thinks is the best setting for their car just because we have very similar or even the same mods.
-
How does stage 2+ feel compared to a generic stage 1 on an ed30? Is it massively faster ie difference again between standard and stage 1 or due you just get a bit more all round? I thought my car was fast enough but the more i read these threads the more i want to go further...
-
How does stage 2+ feel compared to a generic stage 1 on an ed30? Is it massively faster ie difference again between standard and stage 1 or due you just get a bit more all round? I thought my car was fast enough but the more i read these threads the more i want to go further...
No where near as much as that.. I would probably say another 50% again.. Thats if your comparing a completely mechanically stock ED30 with stage 1 to a fully bolt on modded stage 2+ car..
-
I'm stopping coming on this forum lol.
I'm thinking about getting the bits and having bf stage 3 there cant be that much difference can there? Ive already got bf so it will save me a fair bit rather than switching to revo
-
Robin i see what your saying and agree that every car is different. But if your saying its not a good idea to post info on the boost timing fuel etc we already are!
Each to there own when it comes to there car and no responsibility is taken.
I always thought the idea of a forum was to have people share info and there thoughts on what worked best for them.
I see you were at inters Robin, and yet again i missed it :sad:. And the famous words "I will be there next year!"
Hope there is going to be a good turn out and E38
Iain
-
Ok, the weeks have past and im looking at the HPFP. Have been seeing lots of info on the pump internals etc but im still not really sure what to go for. Is there any truth in what has been posted about the metal used in the (i think) KMD internals being a little soft?
Iain
-
JBS have the Autotech internal in stock for not much more than the KMD. I'm getting mine fitted tomorrow.
-
I've had the Autotech internals in mine for over a year with no issues :happy2:
-
Im going to be in the cotswolds the second last week in september, so mite look at getting this done when down there. Do REVO supply and fit the pump internals? Will be around 20 miles away from there HQ. Oh, this could be a good we week away
Iain
-
Iain,
you say the cotswolds, if you can stretch it to Bristol I would suggest Streetwise Automotive who may be able to help you out.
Aside from being all ex VAG from Heritage VW down the road, they are also a Revo Dealer and know there stuff (ask for Mitch the owner).
I was there on Friday for the fitment of my anti lift kit and ferodo pads.