MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => How to Guides / Troubleshooting => Topic started by: c0v3rt on November 10, 2012, 07:49:54 pm
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I hope someone can help me?!?
Had my gti 2005 dsg (completely standard) a month with no probs, but today is different...
Had an emc and eps (swerving car symbol) lights come on when giving a little boost to overtake. These went out randomly after about half an hour at around 30mph of town driving.
Returned to car after 4hrs; I now have these lights back on, plus engine light. Car is juddering when stationary idling, and cannot drive over 5mph or change gear!
Please can someone help me! Car is currently in a car park and am 10miles from home grrr!
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Member of AA or RAC?
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Cheers for reply Bacillus; I have recovery on my insurance, but was hoping not to resort to that yet.
On returning to car again after a couple of hrs, it starts ok-ish and managed to get home (with the same 3 lights on) but kept to 40mph and low rev.
I'm hopefully getting a scan next week to investigate, but am I ok to drive it carefully in the meantime?
It's my only car, and my girlfriend doesn't drive so am stuck without it.
Thanks!
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I would say don't drive it till you've had it scanned.
Where are you located as hopefully a member off here with a vcds cable could scan the car for you for a few beer tokens.
List of registered members with vcds here http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,120.msg1061.html#msg1061
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Thanks :happy2:
I'm in Bedfordshire; Alex at AKS has offered to scan (had a service there only a few days ago and all was cool), but that is 10miles from me.
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I suppose you could PM him and see if he could come out to you if no other vcds members are nearby. http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1981
The other alternative, assuming you have Recovery,would be to call out your breakdown service first thing on Monday. They may be able to scan it for you and if they can't fix it, ask for the car to be taken to AKS
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Car is now with AKS; scans point towards throttle body/pedal/sensors but will know more tomorrow hopefully.
Just hope it's not too expensive to sort!
Thanks for your advice Bacillus, and thanks to Alex at AKS for all the help so far - top bloke! :happy2:
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Fingers crossed its just a sensor chucking you into limp mode pal GL!
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Not solved yet, but throttle body has been removed and has some corrosion/ full of crap/ worn seal - will try get pics when I see Alex. I think the sensors are in a sealed housing, so can't be looked at.
New part due to go on tomorrow so hoping that clears it and am up and running again, fingers crossed eh!
Cheers
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Update, and bad news...
New throttle body went on and it cleared the errors. Out on test drive its back in limp mode after a short while!
Disconnecting battery cleared this but keeps coming on when revved hard (over 2k rpm I think).
All scans/codes point towards throttle body or pedal - both these have been swapped for replacements and error still show, and goes into limp.
I'm told this now looks like ecu failure or a wiring issue somewhere.
Has anyone experienced anything like this, or had a replacement ecu fitted?
It's in with AKS currently, and will be ringing VW to see what I do next... Think this is going to get pricey!
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I'm booked in with Viindis Bedford VW for Monday so will find out more then.
Does anyone have any ideas of what causes ecu failure?
Is it something that should have been spotted pre purchase or at recent service'?
Or is it as random as a PC getting blue screen or ring of death thing on xbox's?!
Searching around the internet last night out it seems an ecu replace at vw is circa £1300 parts & labour.
Alternative to this seem to be sending ecu away to specialist company for examination, not sure on cost but cheaper than the other option!
If the ecu is knackered, would it be as straight forward as getting a ecu from a write off and swapping it in/ reflashing it?!
Sorry if this doesn't make sense; I'm not at all knowledgable wig cars and am feeling very lost with all this!
Thanks in advance.
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sorry to hear of your troubles
don't buy a new ecu, a used one can be fitted.
send Kalu a pm
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Thanks Ed, I'll give him shout
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Have the fault codes so we can have a look
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The fault codes shown when in limp mode were:
P0123
P2122
P0222
AKS did additional scans but don't think he noted them.
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So, car has spent the day in vw worshop and am now £180 (2hrs labour) poorer but no wiser!
Initial call form vw was to tell me it was the throttle pedal, despite being told all info as above.
After a bit more investigation I get another call...
The lady tells me they've looked into it further, then puts me on hold for 10mins - then proceeds to scan read through the workshop notes mumbling how she doesn't understand etc.
Final result of this call is that she'll have to speak to workshop in morning and then call me again.
She mentioned that the info was being sent to vw hq too, and i quote, "so not to cost me (the customer) more time, or waste anymore of their (vw) time...!
I'm not happy, poor customer service imo, and am now £360 down (180 aks, 180 vw) and no wiser to the issue!
My confidence with vw is now fading based on the well planned call as above, and am dreading how long/ how much it's I'd going to cost to diagnose, let alone price of parts/labour to actually fix whatever is wrong!
Any ideas/experience with dealers? Any help gladly received!
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sorry to hear about your troubles, shame you are not nearer to me.
what exactly have vw done to locate the problem?
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if they haven't cured the fault then i don't see why you have to pay more
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The fault codes shown when in limp mode were:
P0123
P2122
P0222
AKS did additional scans but don't think he noted them.
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16507/P0123/000291 (http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16507/P0123/000291)
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/P2122/008482 (http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/P2122/008482)
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16606/P0222/000546 (http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16606/P0222/000546)
:confused:
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Thanks all.
Thanks Hedge for the links; these all point towards throttle pedal or body, but am told these items have been tested/ new bits seapped in, and fault remains. So does that mean its wiring?
I would have thought vw should be able to find the problem within hours though?!?
Where do I stand with paying etc?
I feel like they have me over a barrel - they charge by the hour to find the problem but can't say how long it's actually going to take! I know very little about cars so am not in a position to challenge them, I just have to trust what I'm being told!
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I would tell them that any part they fit to your car and doesn't cure the problem then your not paying for it
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^ thanks
I've only incurred 'labour' charges so far, and that's already killing me.
I have visions of this going on for weeks where they don't find anything just keep charging for searching haha
I've got no car either and apparently they have no courtesy they can offer me; is that normal procedure?
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^ thanks
I've only incurred 'labour' charges so far, and that's already killing me.
I have visions of this going on for weeks where they don't find anything just keep charging for searching haha
I've got no car either and apparently they have no courtesy they can offer me; is that normal procedure?
Its still money they're charging you -
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Sounds like a poor earth connection somewhere? maybe throttle body or ecu??
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By the way I fried my ECU on the VXR and it was constantly in limp mode with ecu light on, the inlet temps and boost where always showing a fault and temp reading -40 :grin: I know for a fact it wasn't that cold :stupid:
I tried every sensor and wiring connection and in the end bit the bullet and found a brand new never fitted ecu on German eBay for £130 :happy2: had it fitted and every thing back to normal.
Hope it goes well for you mate but If I was you I would be using an independent VW place like Statlers or JKM someone who strip these cars for fun and know what they are looking for, If VW dealer can not find it with a diagnostic computer they are stuck :fighting:
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If it is a bad earth connection should vw find this easily/ quickly?
It shouldn't be the throttle body or pedal as AKS tried these independently with the error still returning.
Vw have ignored all this info I gave at booking in!
Thanks Morty!
Is an ecu a straight swap in? Or do you need to change more?
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It will be a straight swap in but cos it connects to the clocks via a pin number it needs coding, had Ed said best bet is Kalu for this he's a magician with this sort of thing :happy2:
VW don't usually like to hear anything other people put in front of them if its not something they can see then sorry computer says NO :sick:
Earth connections on any car are awful to find problem with has they go off in all sorts of places but if your methodical and have wiring diagrams then you can check and trace all the connections, I was watching the guy do my Zaffy and checked all the wiring from the ecu to the AMM and MAP sensors and all was fine which is why we finally decided the ecu needed to be changed.
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The dealers are useless if the computer doesn't show the fault they haven't a clue
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I thought it was probably a case of computer says no!
What cause the ecu frying? Is it just unlucky?
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Unlucky does spring to mind mate has ECU are usually very robust, I think in my case the car had taken on water at the front intake and damaged the engine, possible water got into the boost/MAP sensor and spiked the ecu before the engine blew???
In your case sounds more like bad luck mate
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It's been a bad few weeks...
Boiler repair so no heating for 2wks, washing machine packed up, and had to get a new rear tyre due to a screw!
And now all this!
Do vw have a limit to how long they'll investigate? Or do they just keep going until they've bled you dry?!? :evilgrin:
Any way out of paying diagnostic/labour charges?
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ring vw customer service and explain the situation with your car,that you haven't got money to let vw guess what the problem is
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To be honest if you explain to the dealer that you have a limited budget for repairs and say that anything done from that moment on needs to go through you no matter how big or small then im sure they can come to some arrangement with you.
Otherwise you'll take your business somewhere else.
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Thanks for all the advice!
Spoken to vw this morning, they say errors still point towards throttle pedal or body, and want to speak with the previous garage regarding the work they have done.
So I'm waiting for a call back, again...
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Finally spoken to VW – and to a technician rather than the front of house staff, but am still no further to understanding the problem...
I’m told they have checked all wiring, which is fine, but without ripping the looms apart they canot to totally sure.
The error code still points towards throttle body so I have two main options...
To replace throttle body at cost of £535
To replace ECU unit at cost of £968 – this part would be a 10 day wait to come into them, and they cannot guarantee this will fix it, and will have to charge me even if it doesn’t work (I presume the same stands for the throttle body)
I am reluctant to go for the throttle body option as AKS have already been through this with no success.
Other option is I send away my ECU to ‘BBA Re-man’ or ‘The ECU Doctor’ for fixing/replacement etc – cost for this is significantly cheaper than the above, but am told would I need to pay an hours labour to have it refitted on return.
Does anyone have experience of this procedure?
I asked VW for the part number for the ECU (so I can get an accurate fix/replace quote, as requested by these companies themselves) - lady got quite annoyed with me for asking, asked why I needed it, and when told why said ‘oh, hat’s ok, I thought you were going to put it into the internet and try to find the part – you can’t do that!’
Any advice on by next step?!
I’m leaning towards sending away the ECU
...but think this will mean no courtesy car from VW in the mean time.
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Not good, it is one thing to spend that sort of money if it fixes the issue.
but with no guarantee then it wouldn't be a good idea.
do you have any local scrapyards near by?
did you send kalu a PM
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Thanks Ed.
That's it exactly; I don't mind paying if its going to sort it.
I don't of any scrapyards near me if honest - I'm in Bedfordshire if anyone knows of any?
Yeah Kalu said he could help if I could source an ecu.
What's the best option?
Ecu doctor in Plymouth have been helpful on the phone so far and sound reasonable.
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VW Bedford have been more than useless today...
Today started with a call where I had to play a guessing game... "hello, guess what I have in my hand?!"
After a few times of me saying I didn't know it turns out it was the ecu from my car!
I hadn't asked for this to be removed either - only mentioned I was thinking about sending it off and how much it would cost to do so.
I asked if they would be able to send it off, she didn't know and said she'd ring back.
Decided to speak to VW UK to see if they could help or advise, or put some weight on from above.
They where very helpful but seems the general outcome seems to be:
1) they do not have the ability to test ecu to say it is definately faulty;
2) change ecu at cost of £970 but cant guarantee it will fix it (error says throttle body but think it's ecu sending duff signal, but again they can't be sure)
I was thinking about sending the ecu away but I don't think I trust vw to refit and fix; probably paranoid but am thinking they could just say the fixed/recon unit didn't work to force me into their original options.
I've decided to take my car back from vw (it can be driven at low revs) in order to investigate elsewhere as I cannot afford to throw money at a problem they cannot guarantee to fix, especially not at their rificulous rates!
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Why not get hold of an auto electrician and let him investigate, it will prob be cheaper than sending your ecu off...and defo far cheaper than replacing it.
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Thanks Morty
Car is now at my uncles garage (normal mot type place) and awaiting a visit from a vw electrical specialist - hopefully he'll get to the bottom of this soon!
Really doing my head in!
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What's the latest mate??
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When I got my last mk5 TDI (55 plate), it was two months out of VW warranty when it would occasionally not start up, over a week it got to the point where it'd start once every 10-15 attempts, but when it started it ran perfectly.
Diagnosis was it needed a replacement ECU at the cost you mention. Never got told what was wrong with the original other than it needed swapped out.
If it was to happen again I'd definitely get a used one put in, or send it away to BBA Reman type people. I think you've done the right thing by looking at alternatives.
The error I had on my modules was -
01314 - Engine Control Module
004 - No Signal/Communication
My ESP light was always on.
VW had no interest in contributing even although this is not a serviceable item and the car was literally 38 months old.
Hope you get it sorted.
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What did the problem end up being?
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What did the problem end up being?
New tb sorted it.
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:happy2: