MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Phil Mcavity on June 22, 2009, 09:52:05 am
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Ok phylis is going in for 3rd service wednesday, and shes just over 2 years old now. The dealership have quoted £250 all in (inc Vat) to do the work.
Question is whats do they do in the 3rd year service, Do they just lift the bonnet and spray wd40 over it or do they do things like spark plug and brake fluid change aswell?
thanks Peeps :drinking:
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brake fluid will probably be an extra and i would have thought they would change the plugs
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Is it 20,000 service or longlife?
If its 20 000 mile service it will be, oil and filter, pollen filter, and full inspection.
Brake fluid is a seperate vost, but yes, due every 2 years.
At the price youve been quoted, id expect that to be a longlife service.. but then labour costs are different...
Spark plugs arent due change till 40,000 or 4 years..
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cheers caz and Jay :drinking:, phylis was serviced 10k ago in october last year, so told service rep, shes on 32k, 3rd service, just over 2 years old, and he said no more then £250 all in . So fingers crossed that includes brake fluid change aswell.
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ok, im confused...
your car is 2 years old.. and its having its second service..
what servicing are you set too?
if its set to t&d then you should be on your 30 000 mile service..
if its longlife then yeah it may be your second service... :confused:
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If its 20 000 mile service it will be, oil and filter, pollen filter, and full inspection.
I had the above done @ 16,500 for the cars second service (2 year old milestone). Cost me £80! (I know a VW mech, so he did it as a weekend job - service book is still stamped as usual).
He told me not to bother with brake fluid change and to wait till year 3. Shame he's moved to Skoda now :sad1:
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My Ed 30 first service was done recently whilst I waited .... but they said the second service is longer as it involves a brake fluid change ..... so I think it's safe to say it is done every 2 years :smiley:
As to what else they do I have no idea - other than he said forget waiting next year and book it in for the day !
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vehicle reg from 2008 are due first brake fluid change after 3 years, and then every 2 years there after.. :smiley:
second services do take longer, normally tell cusotmers it be 2 hrs, then 40minutes more for brake fluid. :smiley:
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well at least its good news its gonna have someone actually service it rather then shake a wet rag at it and charge the earth. Fingers crossed she doesnt come back damaged like my 2nd service. :mad:
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Can anyone shed light on what they actually do on this annual service, im abit shocked tbh, that apart from the oil and engine filter, they have only changed and replaced 2 items, and with no sign of a braker fluid change either, and billed £228 for the privaledge. 2hours labour to drain and refill the oil and replace a pollen filter!!!.Thats 25/30 minutes work!!. Seems like its a well it works and not like preventative maintance like in my days as an Engineer.
Can anyone who works for VW shed light on exactly whats done to the car for a 2 year old car that this was its 3rd service!!
They couldnt fix my MFD display with Nav issues cus no one that worked there was clued up enough to attempt it. They only Master Tech was off sick!! (colin)
Thanks :smiley:
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The vast majority of that cost will be labour! :angry015:
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£95 labour charge. So in 2 hours work, looking at things Visually looks expensive, rather then 30 minutes of actually using tools to remove/service stuff and charging me for it.
£86 in parts of which £64 was oil !!!, a sump plug, a pollen filter, and another filter which i hope for their sake theyve not thrown away my green cotton filter cus theyve replaced another filter for around £9 but not sure if thats the air filter?
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oil filter :confused:
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All you have to do, Phil, is have a chat with your dealer's service manager. I'm sure you'll find that the costs will be fully explained and justified.
It's not really a subject which is open for your opinion about how little it should cost and your inferrence that you are being ripped off. Also, having such a negative attitude isn't going to earn you any favours, matey.
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having such a negative attitude isn't going to earn you any favours, matey.
Robin, the service manager i have had 1st dealings with already with regards to my damaged alloy, so all im asking is if anyone knows within VW as there are a few people on this forum, that know more then i do, i thought this forum was open for potentially answering someones question is it not??.
All im saying is Vw should take up the approach of writing what they have actually done ,rather then a list of part numbers and no description of what these parts are!. Perhaps its just my local dealers way of writing up an invoice.??
(Ie) the Mechanic/technitions report etc. Rather then a quick total and bill with no explaination.
Im sorry, but writing just a sentance saying "carry out 3rd year service", is not good enough, i would like to know what im actually paying for, and for what items are actually been looked at, and that others are not.
Some people rather just pay up and not bother wanting to know, but if your paying a wedge of cash, it goes without saying you want to know why its that much and whats been done to justify their cost.
Sorry but i thought asking someone on here might be able to help me rather then me standing face on AGAIN with the service manager.
Im concerned with what appears to be lack of items changed and that the Brakes have been missed as she is just over 2 years old and has now had its 3rd service with very little done.
The Cost is not an issue, i would of payed a higher price if further parts are replaced, ie Brake Pads are serviceable on a car that has done 33000 miles. Ok spark plugs are done at 40k/4 years, but that seems an awful long time between servicing.No fuel filter mentioned??.
My cam tensioner was mentioned to them to be noisey and once again, because they proceeded with the service in the morning when the engine temp was warm so fault wasnt traceable, but i clearly said to them DO NOT look at the car till the Pm so they could investigate this Worrying noise.So they done the service in the AM
They had no one "skilled" to look at my car with Vag-com to resolve another few issues, so refused to resolve that problem aswell.
Above all means yet more trips back to a dealer which when you have family and kids to worry about and transport for them , it isnt easy to balance, which isnt such a problem when your the only person that uses that vehicle.
So hopefully you might understand Robin, my anger and frustration.
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It's not really a subject which is open for your opinion
So the point of a forum discussion is what Robin?
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i got mine done in may all i paid for was brake fluid 60 quid everything else is covered under the 3 year thing... :confused:
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I only bought my car in february so it will not need servicing for some time yet, however when it is serviced i will want to know exactly what is being changed and will want a itemised bill for every part/labour. As you say some people will pay just to have the stamp in the book but i will want to know whats being done otherwise your just chucking money at it without knowing what you're payng for? Crazy if you ask me!
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I only bought my car in february so it will not need servicing for some time yet, however when it is serviced i will want to know exactly what is being changed and will want a itemised bill for every part/labour. As you say some people will pay just to have the stamp in the book but i will want to know whats being done otherwise your just chucking money at it without knowing what you're payng for? Crazy if you ask me!
Thank god im not the only one!! :P
Im glad that you feel the same way. You want to know what your paying for and not just "taking their word " that its been done as it should.
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Hi there,
This might help answer a few things. Have a look at your service book in the manual pack you have. There it explains all the checks and replacements that happen at different intervals and what a regular service should look like.
I've got a 2007 car and on my second service they did what they call a mobility guarantee service, which includes a full safety inspection of the car for wear and tear. They replaced the oil filter (€14.40 + VAT), the sump plug (€1.41 + VAT), they put 4.6 litres of Longlife III Castrol oil in (€20 / litre = €73.60 + VAT) and properly disposed of the old stuff and added more washer fluid (€1.42). They also did a diagnosis DTC check.
All in my bill for the service came to €215.49 + VAT which was €256.43.
This service keeps up the 'mobility guarantee' which is basically the free European wide AA/RAC coverage (which in itself must save about €100 / year) we get whilst getting the car serviced by a main dealer.
They would have changed the brake fluid as well on this service - but since I'd just fitted a new big brake kit with new fluid, they obviously didn't bother - it will need changed again in a further 2 years.
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I have looked at the service book and it does list, but as a tick box, which is identical for each service whether its 1st or 4th service.
A simple discription from the Technition rather then the normally good looking Lady on the service desk that normally ticks the boxes, when shes not the one thats actually done anything or taken part in the cars servicing.
If she copys from the technitions report, then perhaps include that in the receipt.
Simple idea and would stop any potential critisism.
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Yes, fair enough, Phil - I was just reacting to what seemed to be a very negative attitude but thanks to you bothering to explain, I see your point.
:happy2: 8) :happy2: :drinking:
You going to Inters?
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Does the Pope go to church :wink:
see you sunday. :happy2:
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I have looked at the service book and it does list, but as a tick box, which is identical for each service whether its 1st or 4th service.
A simple discription from the Technition rather then the normally good looking Lady on the service desk that normally ticks the boxes, when shes not the one thats actually done anything or taken part in the cars servicing.
If she copys from the technitions report, then perhaps include that in the receipt.
Simple idea and would stop any potential critisism.
You don't get the report with the invoice? Oh.. all the times I've ever had a VW main dealer serviced, even over here and back home in the UK - they provided the report as well. And in some cases even the DTC report.
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I have looked at the service book and it does list, but as a tick box, which is identical for each service whether its 1st or 4th service.
A simple discription from the Technition rather then the normally good looking Lady on the service desk that normally ticks the boxes, when shes not the one thats actually done anything or taken part in the cars servicing.
If she copys from the technitions report, then perhaps include that in the receipt.
Simple idea and would stop any potential critisism.
You don't get the report with the invoice? Oh.. all the times I've ever had a VW main dealer serviced, even over here and back home in the UK - they provided the report as well. And in some cases even the DTC report.
Oh i wish they did, no such luck here, perhaps its just my dealer or has anyone in the Uk had such a thing when dealing with a Uk dealer?
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when mine got its 2nd service at the dealers,they changed the oil & filters & they said they had looked at the brakes,but i said you can't have had the wheels of as i had the locking wheel nut in my pocket
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i completley agree aswell, :happy2:
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I'm looking at £420 ish for my next service and I'm damn sure I want to know what it is I'm paying for :surprised:
As an engineer I am actually genuinely interested in whats going on / whats being done. Perhaps those who don't understand cars are happy just to hand the cash over and be happy :confused:
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I'm not an engineer but I like to know everything that's done to my car. If I trust the 'garage' I'm happy to hand over the dosh.
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when mine got its 2nd service at the dealers,they changed the oil & filters & they said they had looked at the brakes,but i said you can't have had the wheels of as i had the locking wheel nut in my pocket
There are only 10 different types of locking nut and they hold copies of all of them.
I know cause I needed a new one and they tried them all to find the right one then order it in for me....
Andy
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the recepionist admitted the wheels hadn't been removed on mine :
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Its true - unless there is a specific complaint about the brakes the wheels dont come off. Its a torch and a mirror on a stick job to inspect the pads ...
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I know im a late poster on this...
Was it your 30 000 mile service, or a 1nd longlife service, im really confussed..
basic 20 000 mile service = oil and filter change, pollen filter changed, full inspection and diagnostics
ADVISED brake fluid change due (this should be mentioned by service advisor as a added extra to the service)
1st longlife would be the same as the above..
basic 30 000 mile service = oil and filter change, full inspection and diagnostics
Air filter replaced at 60 000 miles, spark plugs at 40 000 miles or 4 years, fuel filter at 40 000 mile service, cambelt at 60 000 miles or 4 years
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to do with a technicians report, what exactly do you mean? all the technicians write on the back of a job card is blah blah service completed. unless theres any other work required like brake pads or tyres, thats all thats on there..
the only time you get a report as such as to what theyve done is when its a car booked in for fault finding or diagnostics..
the parts, as listed on the invoice should be named, I know they are on ours.. plus, service advisor handing over should explain what has been carried out and what has been changed, and what the parts are listed.
there also should be an check sheet given to you (express visual check) which will have a break down of the wear on your tyres at the different points, dates at the top regarding next service date, brake fluid change due date, mot due date and cambelt due date. there will sections on this sheet relating to engine, exterior, interior, brake, suspension etc.. this is where notes will be made if any future work is required or immediate work required (which you should of been phoned about if needed throughout the day).
from what I can remember, the wheels are only taken off on the 3rd service?? ill double check this.
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the parts, as listed on the invoice should be named, I know they are on ours.. plus, service advisor handing over should explain what has been carried out and what has been changed, and what the parts are listed.
there also should be an check sheet given to you (express visual check) which will have a break down of the wear on your tyres at the different points, dates at the top regarding next service date, brake fluid change due date, mot due date and cambelt due date. there will sections on this sheet relating to engine, exterior, interior, brake, suspension etc.. this is where notes will be made if any future work is required or immediate work required (which you should of been phoned about if needed throughout the day).
from what I can remember, the wheels are only taken off on the 3rd service?? ill double check this.
Absolutley non of the above Caz, and thats why im very miffed.
It was a 30k service, shes 2 years and 4 months old. No sign of any brake service either.
A copy of the engineers job card was never allowed to be given or even chance to read it.
Bill was only listed as
Labour.
Parts were listed as part numbers ONLY. which is no use to the likes of a customer or showing to a potential buyer later on in service history etc.
Oil disposal.
Vat bla bla bla
and thats it. :sad:
I get the impression that because ive not reported anything to be concerned about or feel somethings wrong, they dont bother checking it.
(if it aint broke then dont try to fix it )
Well because of this lack of info, thats what it feels like.
Sorry to post these thoughts , and i know im not popular amung the Moderator/admin for Voicing uphappy things on this site at times.
Im am not trying to generate "Negativity" but a VW forum in my oppinion is there for different reasons. Good and Bad.
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Hi Phil,
Following Caz's very informative post and your account of what's not happening, it's tending to look as if your VW dealer isn't up to speed. Any others in your neck of the woods or close enough to be worthwhile?
It's good that you report stuff - Whether good or bad news, it's useful to us all.
:happy2:
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Problem is my dealership now covers the whole of southampton , as its just bought out a rival dealership in the city.Portsmouth is also run by the same company, along with Chichester, nearest dealer going the other way is Bournemouth!!!, thats 30+ mile trip.(60+round trip)
Perhaps ill try what was the Rival dealership the otherside of town.They took over everything including staff, so hope they run it differently there for future servicing.
:happy2:
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Well, we're all different (I'm happy to drive 340m round trip for servicing etc at VWR but a modded car needs more than what a dealer can usually give).
I guess your options are either to somehow manage to persuade your existing dealer to behave how you expect them to, or to do a 60m round trip to another dealer. Is 60m a problem? I'm thinking you don't need servicing too often.
Perhaps a call to VW UK to ask them in detail what their dealers are expected to do, might give you some ammunition to display on your gun belt when you negotiate with your existing dealer (or a new one too).
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i've had a quick look at the service manual, and agree apart from oil and filter change, the interval service or inspection is just checking other parts and no items replaced
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vehicle reg from 2008 are due first brake fluid change after 3 years, and then every 2 years there after.. :smiley:
That is interesting. However, I would still personally recommend that an absolute max of 2 years for brake fluid change!
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Can anyone shed light on what they actually do on this annual service, im abit shocked tbh, that apart from the oil and engine filter, they have only changed and replaced 2 items, and with no sign of a braker fluid change either, and billed £228 for the privaledge. 2hours labour to drain and refill the oil and replace a pollen filter!!!.Thats 25/30 minutes work!!. Seems like its a well it works and not like preventative maintance like in my days as an Engineer.
Can anyone who works for VW shed light on exactly whats done to the car for a 2 year old car that this was its 3rd service!!
You really need to ask the stealer for a copy of the service check sheet - afterall, it is your property. Sadly, this seems to be a clear ploy by VWGUK to somehow 'cheapen' the VW brand. Whenever I have my Audis serviced, they always give me the check sheet without even having to ask for it - in fact all the Audi paperwork is in a glossy folder, with the name of the technician and the name of the valeter - whereas at VW you have to plead with them for every piece of supporting paperwork.
BTW, good to meet you at last yesterday at Inters. :happy2: :grouphug:
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All you have to do, Phil, is have a chat with your dealer's service manager. I'm sure you'll find that the costs will be fully explained and justified.
Sadly, Red, not all dub stealers are as open as yours. In fact, with the vast majority, it would be easier getting a stool sample from a wooden rocking horse, than it would getting a fully detailed invoice. Type 7 on the chart springs to mind! :evilgrin:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ft108%2FTeutonic_Tamer%2FBristolStoolChart.png&hash=7dff58cf0280e8c191a3254b44efd0f146d9f771)
It's not really a subject which is open for your opinion about how little it should cost and your inferrence that you are being ripped off. Also, having such a negative attitude isn't going to earn you any favours, matey.
I disagree, Volkswagen UK have clearly told their franchised dealers to be more competative and offer a 'price match' to written quotes from other independent garages. Though this should be done BEFORE the actual service is carried out, and in the stealers defence, really shouldn't be open for discussion after the service has been carried out.
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having such a negative attitude isn't going to earn you any favours, matey.
Robin, the service manager i have had 1st dealings with already with regards to my damaged alloy, so all im asking is if anyone knows within VW as there are a few people on this forum, that know more then i do, i thought this forum was open for potentially answering someones question is it not??.
Yup, agreed. It is an open forum, and it is only right that questions like these should be allowed. And as far as I can see, the thread has been fairly constructive up to this point.
All im saying is Vw should take up the approach of writing what they have actually done ,rather then a list of part numbers and no description of what these parts are!. Perhaps its just my local dealers way of writing up an invoice.??
(Ie) the Mechanic/technitions report etc. Rather then a quick total and bill with no explaination.
But you should have actually asked for the check list, and got the service advisor to explain thoroughly anything you wern't sure about.
Im sorry, but writing just a sentance saying "carry out 3rd year service", is not good enough, i would like to know what im actually paying for, and for what items are actually been looked at, and that others are not.
Some people rather just pay up and not bother wanting to know, but if your paying a wedge of cash, it goes without saying you want to know why its that much and whats been done to justify their cost.
I'm with you all the way on this. :happy2:
Sorry but i thought asking someone on here might be able to help me rather then me standing face on AGAIN with the service manager.
Agreed. It is a sign of pretty poor service if you allways have to go to the service manager just for getting routine info. Managers should be there to sort out real problems, not deal with every-day routine stuff.
Im concerned with what appears to be lack of items changed and that the Brakes have been missed as she is just over 2 years old and has now had its 3rd service with very little done.
Well, if you are on the fixed interval T&D regime, then all the 'odd numbered' services (1st, 3rd, 5th etc) are effectively 'small' services, whereas the even numbers (2nd, 4th, 6th etc) are the 'biggie' services - so that may account for what seems little work.
Regarding the brake fluid change (BFC) - this technically is not part of any service, and is actually classed as 'additional work' and is separately charged for. Nevertheless, your stealer seems to have made a crucial fcuk-up by missing the two year period for the BFC. Get on the dog'n'bone and find out why, and report back.
The Cost is not an issue, i would of payed a higher price if further parts are replaced, ie Brake Pads are serviceable on a car that has done 33000 miles. Ok spark plugs are done at 40k/4 years, but that seems an awful long time between servicing.No fuel filter mentioned??.
Brake pad changes are not a 'service' item, but are simply classed as a 'wear' item - when they are worn, they get replaced, so even if the car does 50k miles on the original pads - if they still have pleanty of meat on em, they wont even think about changing them. Spark plugs are a 'longlife' item, and they have a fine-tipped iridum +ve electrode - and at a £10 plus vat a piece, you don't really want to change them willy-nilly. In the UK and the more 'decent' parts of mainland western Europe, petrol fuel quality is generally so good that fuel filters are now considered a 'non-servicieable' item. However, for piece of mind, I would personally recommend a petrol fuel filter change somewhere between 40k miles to 80k miles.
My cam tensioner was mentioned to them to be noisey and once again, because they proceeded with the service in the morning when the engine temp was warm so fault wasnt traceable, but i clearly said to them DO NOT look at the car till the Pm so they could investigate this Worrying noise.So they done the service in the AM
They had no one "skilled" to look at my car with Vag-com to resolve another few issues, so refused to resolve that problem aswell.
Above all means yet more trips back to a dealer which when you have family and kids to worry about and transport for them , it isnt easy to balance, which isnt such a problem when your the only person that uses that vehicle.
So hopefully you might understand Robin, my anger and frustration.
Now that is bad. Get them to deliver a courtessy car to you home address, and collect yours, the night BEFORE they do any further work.
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Nice to see you shaun, and thankyou for your thoughts on this. be good to see you back on here mate, and enjoyed our Convo mate on Sunday .
:happy2:
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I know im a late poster on this...
Was it your 30 000 mile service, or a 1nd longlife service, im really confussed..
I think Phil is on the T&D regime, and is probably driving around 12k miles a year, hence why the third service was at 33k miles and 2 years 4 months (if I read it correctly!).
basic 20 000 mile service = oil and filter change, pollen filter changed, full inspection and diagnostics
ADVISED brake fluid change due (this should be mentioned by service advisor as a added extra to the service)
1st longlife would be the same as the above..
basic 30 000 mile service = oil and filter change, full inspection and diagnostics
Air filter replaced at 60 000 miles, spark plugs at 40 000 miles or 4 years, fuel filter at 40 000 mile service, cambelt at 60 000 miles or 4 years
But that is the work shedule for LongLife. When on T&D, at one year or 10k miles, you have what is called an 'oil change service', and it only contains four work items - drain and refil engine oil, renew oil filter, inspect front brake pads, reset service interval display. Then at 20k/2years, you have what is effectively a first LL service. At 30k/3 years, you then have another oil change service, then at 40k/4 years, you then need the 'biggie' - what is effectively the 2nd LL service.
to do with a technicians report, what exactly do you mean? all the technicians write on the back of a job card is blah blah service completed. unless theres any other work required like brake pads or tyres, thats all thats on there..
the only time you get a report as such as to what theyve done is when its a car booked in for fault finding or diagnostics..
Nope. You should get a copy of the service check list. Log into Elsa, bang in someones VIN, and it will produce an itemised 'tick box' check list. This is then printed off, given to the technician to work from, and the completed check list should then be given to the customer. Sadly, hardly any VW dealers do this, whereas ALL Audi dealers freely offer this without question from the customer.
the parts, as listed on the invoice should be named, I know they are on ours.. plus, service advisor handing over should explain what has been carried out and what has been changed, and what the parts are listed.
Agreed, though more often than not, the description of the parts usually the same one or two word discription from ETKA, and whilst these may make sense to someone in the trade, they make no sense to the customer. As an example, input this part number - 8E5 800 403 AB - and tell us how the part is described on your system, and then tell us in 'plain english' what the part is!
there also should be an check sheet given to you (express visual check) which will have a break down of the wear on your tyres at the different points, dates at the top regarding next service date, brake fluid change due date, mot due date and cambelt due date. there will sections on this sheet relating to engine, exterior, interior, brake, suspension etc.. this is where notes will be made if any future work is required or immediate work required (which you should of been phoned about if needed throughout the day).
Sorry, but the 'express visual check' is absolutely nothing to do with any of the official sheduled services - because they do NOT appear on Elsa, and are NOT approved by Volkswagen Germany. This express visual check is just a free add-on which Volkswagen Group UK have instructed their dealers to do. It is completely separate to the official service check sheet.
from what I can remember, the wheels are only taken off on the 3rd service?? ill double check this.
3rd LL or 3rd T&D?
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Nice to see you shaun, and thankyou for your thoughts on this. be good to see you back on here mate, and enjoyed our Convo mate on Sunday .
:happy2:
Thanks, and likewise. And dispite any 'differences' we may have had in the past, I really am just trying to offer my help, to the best of my abilities. Hope to see you again soon anyway - when is the next JKM rolling road session?
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Nice to see you shaun, and thankyou for your thoughts on this. be good to see you back on here mate, and enjoyed our Convo mate on Sunday .
:happy2:
Thanks, and likewise. And dispite any 'differences' we may have had in the past, I really am just trying to offer my help
Well and truelly put behind shaun. Hopefully no youve met me in person, you'll be able to Judge me better :wink:
Nice to see you shaun, and thankyou for your thoughts on this. be good to see you back on here mate, and enjoyed our Convo mate on Sunday .
:happy2:
when is the next JKM rolling road session?
Good question, perhaps get the chaps from the midlands to take a "Deep Sea Pill" so they dont feel sick heading south :laugh:
Perhaps to liase with Kate and Co at jkm to arrange. :smiley:
Cheers Shaun :happy2:
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I thought you were the 'resident JKM RR organiser'? :wink: :wink:
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I thought you were the 'resident JKM RR organiser'? :wink: :wink:
Can arrange a Bourban collection shaun, but struggle with the RR side of it :wink:
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^^^^
I'm about to speak to Kate @ JKM anyway - I can organise another Dyno-Day there - I'll report back after speaking.
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^^^^
JKM could offer one from mid September to October.
I'll start a new 'feeler' thread in due course and volunteer to organise it.