MK5 Golf GTI
General => Random Chat => Topic started by: Mk5 GTian on November 26, 2012, 08:40:08 am
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With the values of our cars seemingly tumbling, with 05 & 55 plate cars with average miles retailing at a realistic £6K, is it not time that Revo recognised this and reflected it in their pricing? With the Mk7 imminent, it's only going to go 1 way.
Revo are expecting you to stump up £600 for a Stage 1 remap, which is now 10% of the purchase price for a 2005 GTi! This is now an 8 year old car, and it seems unrealistic to be expected to pay the same as someone who is doing the same to their spanking new Ed35!
I know they did it a while ago for the Mk4 1.8T, but does anyone know if they have a strategic point at which they drop the price for older cars?
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Very good point!
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I'm sure it comes down to supply and demand, if the amount of Mk5 being mapped drops considerably then you'd imagine the price would reflect this. At least twice a year REVO do their 20% off so that saves £120 and I believe a few tuners even offer REVO maps for cheaper than that plus their maps are cheaper at Inters as well.
I completely agree with you, when you see (for example) Rtech doing custom maps for £300 it does make you wonder.
:happy2:
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Indeed, a very good point. Glad to see that in spite of your injury your brain is working well, Ian :happy2:
Revo Stage 1 was much less than £600 when I bought it a few years ago via JKM.
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@MC71, I totally agree with your point on R-Tech.
The PDT remap on my old Mk5 and the Storm Developments remap I had on this one were both £300, and I was thrilled with both. An ECU problem meant I had to go Revo, otherwise there is no way I'd have gone with them.
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Why go REVO when you can go Rtech for half the price :happy2:
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Why go REVO when you can go Rtech for half the price :happy2:
....The long distance from R-Tech might have something to do with such a decision.
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Why go REVO when you can go Rtech for half the price :happy2:
Exactly :happy2:
I wonder how much of the market they'd hoover up if they dropped the price on cars that are 7 years old plus?
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Why go REVO when you can go Rtech for half the price :happy2:
....The long distance from R-Tech might have something to do with such a decision.
Quite. I'd love to make a road trip to some tuners down south, but being in Aberdeen, it limits my choice somewhat. What is save in the cost of a remap, I'd match in fuel and accommodation. I'm currently on the look out for a map in the new year so looking at other "independent" options in Scotland.
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Why go REVO when you can go Rtech for half the price :happy2:
....The long distance from R-Tech might have something to do with such a decision.
Understand but why do REVO charge so much when you can get as good re-map at independent dealer for less money, not just R-tech but JABBASPORT etc.
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Understand but why do REVO charge so much when you can get as good re-map at independent dealer for less money, not just R-tech but JABBASPORT etc.
....My guess is huge overheads to cover and on an international basis.
Small operators like R-Tech can afford to charge less much more easily and are also keener to become more established and grab a market share.
I always get Jabbasport and JBS mixed up but one of them should definitely be avoided!! Bad reports all over the hyperinterwebbynet forums.
Personally, I'm very happy with Revo's remaps and being individually very well looked after by Jim at JKM as a fully approved Revo agent.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FRR%2FJKM_JimFix.jpg&hash=24ea561197dd099e4a7c4e430224729cbbca5188)
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Understand but why do REVO charge so much when you can get as good re-map at independent dealer for less money, not just R-tech but JABBASPORT etc.
....My guess is huge overheads to cover and on an international basis.
Small operators like R-Tech can afford to charge less much more easily and are also keener to become more established and grab a market share.
I always get Jabbasport and JBS mixed up but one of them should definitely be avoided!! Bad reports all over the hyperinterwebbynet forums.
Personally, I'm very happy with Revo's remaps and being individually very well looked after by Jim at JKM as a fully approved Revo agent.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FRR%2FJKM_JimFix.jpg&hash=24ea561197dd099e4a7c4e430224729cbbca5188)
JABBASPORT are the good guys, really no their stuff!
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No one is pointing a gun at your head to buy Revo. :confused:
Do your research and buy whoever you want after all it's your car.
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No one is pointing a gun at your head to buy Revo. :confused:
Do your research and buy whoever you want after all it's your car.
Agreed :happy2:
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The car itself may well be old, but the engine was still available on new cars until a few months ago on the S3, Golf R and Ed35. If they dropped the price on one, they'd have to drop it on all of them.
Now the engine is well and truly dead I agree with you, but I'd still go to R-Tech. Considering they include a DSG remap I the price of their custom maps they work out a lot less than half the price of a Revo.
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Understand but why do REVO charge so much when you can get as good re-map at independent dealer for less money, not just R-tech but JABBASPORT etc.
....My guess is huge overheads to cover and on an international basis.
Small operators like R-Tech can afford to charge less much more easily and are also keener to become more established and grab a market share.
I always get Jabbasport and JBS mixed up but one of them should definitely be avoided!! Bad reports all over the hyperinterwebbynet forums.
Personally, I'm very happy with Revo's remaps and being individually very well looked after by Jim at JKM as a fully approved Revo agent.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FRR%2FJKM_JimFix.jpg&hash=24ea561197dd099e4a7c4e430224729cbbca5188)
JABBASPORT are the good guys, really no their stuff!
Jabbasport have also been tuning VAG cars long before REVO existed :happy2:
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Why go REVO when you can go Rtech for half the price :happy2:
this :congrats: :happy2:
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Jabbasport have also been tuning VAG cars long before REVO existed :happy2:
Only 5 years according to their respective websites.
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Even with the 20% I'm going to be £549 for a stage 2 revo map at Wallace performance (only place within 120 miles)
Then an extra £60 for a rolling road session if required. And another £189 if I want the SPS switch
I was considering switching to revo but I won't be able to get the car in until after the deal has ended and that's going to be £900 just for a map, rolling road and switch
Surely revo has recouped there R&D costs for the mk5 golf by now
If the price was reasonable I would go for a revo but I'm going to get an APR fuel pump next year and ask superchips for the original stage 2 map
I was happy with the bluefin stage 2 but suffered fuel cuts
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Even with the 20% I'm going to be £549 for a stage 2 revo map at Wallace performance (only place within 120 miles)
Then an extra £60 for a rolling road session if required. And another £189 if I want the SPS switch
I was considering switching to revo but I won't be able to get the car in until after the deal has ended and that's going to be £900 just for a map, rolling road and switch
Surely revo has recouped there R&D costs for the mk5 golf by now
If the price was reasonable I would go for a revo but I'm going to get an APR fuel pump next year and ask superchips for the original stage 2 map
I was happy with the bluefin stage 2 but suffered fuel cuts
Baz,
I'm looking at Star Performance in Kirkcaldy. My uncle got his Cupra remapped there and he was fairly positive about them and I don't think he's had any issues. 2 hour drive there and the same back. Think it's GIAC the use so no idea if they are any good or not. Not sure if his was just stage 1 but it was 550 including the rolling road session and box so you can switch back to standard.
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Even with the 20% I'm going to be £549 for a stage 2 revo map at Wallace performance (only place within 120 miles)
Then an extra £60 for a rolling road session if required. And another £189 if I want the SPS switch
I was considering switching to revo but I won't be able to get the car in until after the deal has ended and that's going to be £900 just for a map, rolling road and switch
Surely revo has recouped there R&D costs for the mk5 golf by now
If the price was reasonable I would go for a revo but I'm going to get an APR fuel pump next year and ask superchips for the original stage 2 map
I was happy with the bluefin stage 2 but suffered fuel cuts
Baz,
I'm looking at Star Performance in Kirkcaldy. My uncle got his Cupra remapped there and he was fairly positive about them and I don't think he's had any issues. 2 hour drive there and the same back. Think it's GIAC the use so no idea if they are any good or not. Not sure if his was just stage 1 but it was 550 including the rolling road session and box so you can switch back to standard.
Cool
Ill bear it in mind, I think I am going to have to uprate the fuel pump no matter what softwear I go for so will give the bluefin a chance after that's done
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I think I am going to have to uprate the fuel pump no matter what softwear I go for so will give the bluefin a chance after that's done
....An uprated or good aftermarket HPFP will benefit and more reliably meet the fuelling demands of any 2.0T FSI engine which has a remap.
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This is a question that has been asked in our shop many times, Revo is £600 and our custom dyno tuned TFSi software is £349, but we do get customers that want revo and won't have anything else.
We then get the customers that think £349 is a 'rip off' due to the chavtastic parts shop down the road offering Remaps for £150 if you pay cash. And they like the fact it takes them only 30 mins whereas we spend 3 hours on the car, so there is a market for fast and cheap work.
Then the same bargain basement customers that actually complain to US because they can get what they believe to be the same thing cheaper elsewhere! It's not as if we are forcing them to buy anything.
However I do feel that now the cars value has dropped significantly, Revo may choose to rethink the price, but if they are still selling lots of TFSI maps then why would they?
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Well said :congrats: :drinking:
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This is a question that has been asked in our shop many times, Revo is £600 and our custom dyno tuned TFSi software is £349, but we do get customers that want revo and won't have anything else.
We then get the customers that think £349 is a 'rip off' due to the chavtastic parts shop down the road offering Remaps for £150 if you pay cash. And they like the fact it takes them only 30 mins whereas we spend 3 hours on the car, so there is a market for fast and cheap work.
Then the same bargain basement customers that actually complain to US because they can get what they believe to be the same thing cheaper elsewhere! It's not as if we are forcing them to buy anything.
However I do feel that now the cars value has dropped significantly, Revo may choose to rethink the price, but if they are still selling lots of TFSI maps then why would they?
If you were closer to me I would rather get a custom map from yourself than a generic map
You don't really want all the chavs having your maps as try will thrash there cars from cold then shut the car down without letting it cool down
Then they will try and blame you for there engine going pop because they don't know how to run a tuned car
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We are sometimes selective with our customers, and have turned down tuning on some cars due to the personality and/or behaviour of the owner :signLOL:
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We are sometimes selective with our customers, and have turned down tuning on some cars due to the personality and/or behaviour of the owner :signLOL:
Quite right!!
What's the furthest someone has come to get their car done?
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This is a question that has been asked in our shop many times, Revo is £600 and our custom dyno tuned TFSi software is £349, but we do get customers that want revo and won't have anything else.
We then get the customers that think £349 is a 'rip off' due to the chavtastic parts shop down the road offering Remaps for £150 if you pay cash. And they like the fact it takes them only 30 mins whereas we spend 3 hours on the car, so there is a market for fast and cheap work.
Then the same bargain basement customers that actually complain to US because they can get what they believe to be the same thing cheaper elsewhere! It's not as if we are forcing them to buy anything.
However I do feel that now the cars value has dropped significantly, Revo may choose to rethink the price, but if they are still selling lots of TFSI maps then why would they?
I had the same conversation with a bloke the other day. He was on about wanting his mk4 remapped, and the 'E*****e place was by far the cheapest, so he was going to take it there. Until I explained what they actually do, and basically what he will be getting, he decided against the place, and you should be seeing a green mk4 golf sometime in the next month or so :happy2:
People just think a remap is a remap, until you learn the hard way :scared:
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If you were closer to me I would rather get a custom map from yourself than a generic map
[/quote]
If you ask Dave nicely he might have a colleague somewhere closer to where you live. I did this through Storm Developments in Reading. They took a map off my car, e-mailed it to Dave, Dave mailed back the new PDT map, it was datalogged on a spirited drive in my car by Tim @ Storm, and then they got it on the rollers for dyno testing. All for 300 plus VAT.
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Jabbasport have also been tuning VAG cars long before REVO existed :happy2:
Only 5 years according to their respective websites.
I was buying parts for my MK2's from Jabbasport 10-11 years ago, pretty sure they been around since mid/late 90's? :happy2:
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@MC71, I totally agree with your point on R-Tech.
The PDT remap on my old Mk5 and the Storm Developments remap I had on this one were both £300, and I was thrilled with both. An ECU problem meant I had to go Revo, otherwise there is no way I'd have gone with them.
+1 here. I'd rather pay £300(ish) for a proper custom remap which is tailored exactly to my requirements, rather than £600 for an "out of the box" remap. I could also do a hell of a lot of trips to R-Tech and still not spend on fuel the £300 saving I made :wink:
I still believe your paying a premium for the "Revo" brand, like buying "Nike" trainers, "Milltek" exhausts etc. . . .
Revo should be more competitive :party: although if people are paying it then they are clearly onto a winner :grin:
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Jabbasport have also been tuning VAG cars long before REVO existed :happy2:
Only 5 years according to their respective websites.
I was buying parts for my MK2's from Jabbasport 10-11 years ago, pretty sure they been around since mid/late 90's? :happy2:
1997 according to the Jabbasport website and 2002 for Revo. 2002 - 1997 = 5 :confused:
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+1 here. I'd rather pay £300(ish) for a proper custom remap which is tailored exactly to my requirements, rather than £600 for an "out of the box" remap. I could also do a hell of a lot of trips to R-Tech and still not spend on fuel the £300 saving I made :wink:
I still believe your paying a premium for the "Revo" brand, like buying "Nike" trainers, "Milltek" exhausts etc. . . .
Revo should be more competitive :party: although if people are paying it then they are clearly onto a winner :grin:
....You make it sound as if established brand companies like Revo, Nike, Milltek, etc are taking financial advantage of people and need not charge what they do. As I explained earlier in this thread, such companies have much larger overheads than the likes of R-Tech etc. If R-Tech etc grow sufficiently in size they will be facing the same needs to fund their existence and continue developing their products. Bigger dogs have bigger stomachs to feed.
As I have posted on many occasions, I have great respect and faith in R-Tech but this is only through meeting Nick and hearing good reports from many others, not just one person. What can R-Tech offer me as a 'custom' map compared with my 'generic' Revo map fine-tuned by JKM? - Nothing! Just look at all my dyno plots, nothing needs improvement.
As for Storm, I had never heard of them until GTian mentioned them and I have more faith in established brands. I always buy Nike trainers because I know I can trust their products and love their style.
I view much of the anti established brands attitude is being the same as inverted snobbery.
Unfortunately most people are primarily driven by what things cost and want everything for nothing anyway. In spite of currently having to live off State Benefits I don't think that way.
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Robin you make a fair point re: overheads etc - they will no doubt have more mouths to feed etc.
As I think we have discussed before, you get great results from Revo and im not in any way suggesting a change (wouldnt be worth it) - and also as I think you said earlier you got your Revo cheaper than the £600 they are offering now.
In my view, as the consumer, value for money is my priority :happy2: and if i was in the market for a remap i would be looking for bang for buck matched with a quality product (a bit of my project management side coming out here :grin:). from all the dyno days i've attended, i do fail to see (this is in my own opinion) why (if i was in the market for a remap) a £600 Revo map is better than a £300 custom remap from the likes of R-Tech, PDT etc, we all get the same amount of power, great curves, drivability etc except one costs twice that of the other.
Considering (im using revo as an example) that the MK5 has been out for a good few years now, all the money invested in development should have easily been recovered (and no doubt a healthy profit made), that Revo should reduce their prices accordingly - afterall they have reduced the prices for the MK4 some time ago. This is my argument. :happy2:
I'm really not slating the product, Revo have a great product with many happy followers but to me at £600 a go, it doesnt make financial sense :sad1:
I'm happy to pay a premium for a large brand (nothing against Nike or Milltek) providing it delivers something that its competitors don't, and meets my needs. Afterall, you buy something to meet your needs.
Gray
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@MC71, I totally agree with your point on R-Tech.
The PDT remap on my old Mk5 and the Storm Developments remap I had on this one were both £300, and I was thrilled with both. An ECU problem meant I had to go Revo, otherwise there is no way I'd have gone with them.
+1 here. I'd rather pay £300(ish) for a proper custom remap which is tailored exactly to my requirements, rather than £600 for an "out of the box" remap. I could also do a hell of a lot of trips to R-Tech and still not spend on fuel the £300 saving I made :wink:
I still believe your paying a premium for the "Revo" brand, like buying "Nike" trainers, "Milltek" exhausts etc. . . .
Revo should be more competitive :party: although if people are paying it then they are clearly onto a winner :grin:
REVO isn't quite a generic map, APR is a generic map no changes possible, REVO allows the tuner to customize the map to your car while installing the map. Afterwards the map can be adjusted to hardwarechanges to a certain degree (not BT upgrade).
So you get a product above a generic map as the APR is.
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^^^^
Yes, I can see that it ought to soon be time for Revo to reduce their Mk5 remap prices but the 2.0T FSI continues and I wouldn't expect any commercial company to drop their prices until they see a drop in their unit sales numbers.
If I hadn't remapped my car yet, I would certainly very seriously consider R-Tech but would probably still pay the extra for Revo for the convenience of JKM and my longstanding faith in Jim as a fine-tuner plus his overall expertise with the 2.0T FSI beyond just remapping. R-Tech are simply too far away and I am someone who used to happily drive a 340 mile round trip to VWR when they had a workshop. JKM are a 180 mile round trip for me.
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REVO isn't quite a generic map, APR is a generic map no changes possible, REVO allows the tuner to customize the map to your car while installing the map. Afterwards the map can be adjusted to hardwarechanges to a certain degree (not BT upgrade).
So you get a product above a generic map as the APR is.
....I knew that Jim at JKM had tweaked my remap while installing but not that it the Revo wasn't 'generic'. Nor did I know that APR remaps were generic. Thanks for the info, Jake :happy2:
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^^ Robin I think we are reaching an agreement :drinking:
In your position (and probably the same for many others), if it's too inconvenient too travel the extra distance then Revo may be the best value for money - not to mention a good relationship with your tuner.
Everybody will have their reasons for choosing a specific product or tuner, they just need to weigh up whats best value for money for them - needs/ location being the main considerations :happy2:
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@MC71, I totally agree with your point on R-Tech.
The PDT remap on my old Mk5 and the Storm Developments remap I had on this one were both £300, and I was thrilled with both. An ECU problem meant I had to go Revo, otherwise there is no way I'd have gone with them.
+1 here. I'd rather pay £300(ish) for a proper custom remap which is tailored exactly to my requirements, rather than £600 for an "out of the box" remap. I could also do a hell of a lot of trips to R-Tech and still not spend on fuel the £300 saving I made :wink:
I still believe your paying a premium for the "Revo" brand, like buying "Nike" trainers, "Milltek" exhausts etc. . . .
Revo should be more competitive :party: although if people are paying it then they are clearly onto a winner :grin:
REVO isn't quite a generic map, APR is a generic map no changes possible, REVO allows the tuner to customize the map to your car while installing the map. Afterwards the map can be adjusted to hardwarechanges to a certain degree (not BT upgrade).
So you get a product above a generic map as the APR is.
I agree, Revo is very much a one size fits all (well rounded) map, with an amount of adjustability (3 parameters across the whole rev range). So not entirely custom, but not exactly generic
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Can we call REVO generic(ish) then?
:signLOL:
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Can we call REVO generic(ish) then?
:signLOL:
....Generish? :grin:
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...but if they are still selling lots of TFSI maps then why would they?
And why should they? Revo obviously place a (high) value on their product. That product is no less valuable just because the car it is suitable for has lessened in value. I mean where do you stop? You could apply this logic to every part available for the car...
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...but if they are still selling lots of TFSI maps then why would they?
And why should they? Revo obviously place a (high) value on their product. That product is no less valuable just because the car it is suitable for has lessened in value. I mean where do you stop? You could apply this logic to every part available for the car...
Imagine trying to have this argument at the VW parts desk.
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Jabbasport have also been tuning VAG cars long before REVO existed :happy2:
Only 5 years according to their respective websites.
I was buying parts for my MK2's from Jabbasport 10-11 years ago, pretty sure they been around since mid/late 90's? :happy2:
1997 according to the Jabbasport website and 2002 for Revo. 2002 - 1997 = 5 :confused:
5 years in the tuning world is a long time :happy2:
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Jabbasport have also been tuning VAG cars long before REVO existed :happy2:
Only 5 years according to their respective websites.
I was buying parts for my MK2's from Jabbasport 10-11 years ago, pretty sure they been around since mid/late 90's? :happy2:
1997 according to the Jabbasport website and 2002 for Revo. 2002 - 1997 = 5 :confused:
5 years in the tuning world is a long time :happy2:
Not many 2.0l TFSI's floating around then though. :wink:
1.8T FTW!
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...but if they are still selling lots of TFSI maps then why would they?
And why should they? Revo obviously place a (high) value on their product. That product is no less valuable just because the car it is suitable for has lessened in value. I mean where do you stop? You could apply this logic to every part available for the car...
I think it will only come down as more and more players like R-Tech, Shark and Jabba start taking a larger share of the market, you can only trade on your name for so long before you also need to be competitive on pricing, thats basic business..........
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Jabbasport have also been tuning VAG cars long before REVO existed :happy2:
Only 5 years according to their respective websites.
I was buying parts for my MK2's from Jabbasport 10-11 years ago, pretty sure they been around since mid/late 90's? :happy2:
1997 according to the Jabbasport website and 2002 for Revo. 2002 - 1997 = 5 :confused:
5 years in the tuning world is a long time :happy2:
Not many 2.0l TFSI's floating around then though. :wink:
1.8T FTW!
No, but they were tuning my MK2's (8V and 16V) before the MK4 came out and then my MK4 1.8T around the time the Mk5 came out. :happy2:
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I think it will only come down as more and more players like R-Tech, Shark and Jabba start taking a larger share of the market, you can only trade on your name for so long before you also need to be competitive on pricing, thats basic business..........
....Why do you keep on insisting that the likes of Revo and APR are only trading on their name? In other words, deciding their prices because of their name.
Do I have to explain yet again the basic business principle that causes commercial companies to balance their prices with their costs, which in turn reflect their size and international structure?
I would have though that Jabbasport would have gained an increased share of the market by now. They have been going since when? 1997 did you say?
Shark? - Well, I'm not holding my breath and I hate the way that Ben, whenever I meet him, trashes Revo.
R-Tech have the most potential IMO but it depends on what financial backing Nick can get and what his aspirations are.
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If R-tech were a world wide business with 550 dealers in 35 countries... their maps would not be 300 quid.
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I'm with Graeme here. In the last year, at Stage 1 over 2 cars I've had a PDT remap, a Storm Developments remap, and now a Revo remap.
There is very little to pick between them to be honest. If anything, I'd say the PDT is marginally the best, and is still on Liz's (my ex) shadow blue Golf. It feels that fraction more urgent, if you know what I mean!
Now the only major difference is that the Revo map was 500 plus VAT, whereas the other 2 were 300 plus VAT! I get Robin's point that Revo have greater overheads, but why feed the bigger dog's bigger stomach when there is no need to? The smaller dog is delivering just as good a product in my experience, and doesn't need as much food!
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If R-tech were a world wide business with 550 dealers in 35 countries... their maps would not be 300 quid.
....Exactly! That's exactly what I have been banging on about. But why use 25 words when 250 will do? :laugh:
This isn't a case of whose remap is the best but about pricing. The 'smaller dog' may indeed be just as good a product but there are other factors such as location and other services as I have already posted.
I suddenly feel the need for some temporary light relief from this discussion (interesting as it is) and so, following on from the mention of dogs...........
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FHotties%2FDoggieLust.jpg&hash=4d2205c3736c0d2dfd893de4d3d44b562ae418da)
^ Posting such images is expected of me and I have a reputation to keep up :evilgrin:
You just KNOW what that dog is thinking!
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...but if they are still selling lots of TFSI maps then why would they?
And why should they? Revo obviously place a (high) value on their product. That product is no less valuable just because the car it is suitable for has lessened in value. I mean where do you stop? You could apply this logic to every part available for the car...
Imagine trying to have this argument at the VW parts desk.
The major difference is that there are no excellent same or lower price alternatives to VAG parts. You either have genuine VAG or lump it. Or you use mod parts which are far more expensive than VAG. There are, however, excellent alternatives to Revo maps at far cheaper prices.
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We now have 50+ dealers in 36 countries, our price for the TFSi hasn't changed much in the last 5 years and it probably won't change in the next 5 years either. I remember the good old days of chip tuning when we were charging £1500+ for some cars. It was only 7 years ago we were charging £500 for most stg1 stuff, but now that there's so many Chinese clone tools and eBay discs full of software being used by mobile 'Tuners' (I use that term loosely) for £125 per remap, the prices and public perception of value has been dragged right down.
In an ideal world the tuning industry would be regulated and prices would then quickly even out.
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We now have 50+ dealers in 36 countries, our price for the TFSi hasn't changed much in the last 5 years and it probably won't change in the next 5 years either. I remember the good old days of chip tuning when we were charging £1500+ for some cars. It was only 7 years ago we were charging £500 for most stg1 stuff, but now that there's so many Chinese clone tools and eBay discs full of software being used by mobile 'Tuners' (I use that term loosely) for £125 per remap, the prices and public perception of value has been dragged right down.
In an ideal world the tuning industry would be regulated and prices would then quickly even out.
....When you say "We" do you mean Revo or PDT?
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The bigger you get the bigger the prices the greater the hassle.
One way to put it.... I just got a little shed on the out skirts of Leicester.............. a bit like Noble.
I have no intentions to expand R-Tech beyone the end of my nose. All the turnover, gross, net profits, margins, marketing, sales BS, competition and political BS from running a franchise would take my eye of what I enjoy, and thats seeing customers drive away with a huge grin from something the R-Tech team have done.
I have had many offers of major £££ input into R-tech to take the "NAME" worldwide and setup a dealer network. I could sit on a laptop all day just writing generic "safe" codes and emailing them to dealers to flash to customers car, maybe earn £1000 per day by selling 10 maps????? My worry would be does the dealer have the passion like me and is he going to fully inspect the car and make sure its safe to map?
If I was a true buisness man then I would to do it and be rich and have anAudi RS6 at 800bhp..lol but I need to remember what I am, and thats a grease monkey tuner who smells of petrol fumes and goes home every night with a dirty face with a smile knowing everyone is happy.
R-Tech prices are low as its just me Ben and Jim in a small £500 per month shed with a 25 year old Bosch dyno, we all take an average wage so dont need to charge silly money for tuning or aftercare.
My drive is passion not profit and my award is from reading customers reviews on the forums and facebook pages. I could happy earn no money one day but come home and read a glowng customer reveiw and be happy as Larry on acid. :drool:
Nick
PS
Even non R-Tech customers make me grin with there comments..... Cheers Red Robin :drinking:
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^^^^
I understand your ethos sompletely, Nick :happy2: And what you have written doesn't surprise me at all. Long may you enjoy what you do and bring pleasure to others.
Such an attitude reminds me a bit of Guy Martin.
There's more to life than just money.
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We now have 50+ dealers in 36 countries, our price for the TFSi hasn't changed much in the last 5 years and it probably won't change in the next 5 years either. I remember the good old days of chip tuning when we were charging £1500+ for some cars. It was only 7 years ago we were charging £500 for most stg1 stuff, but now that there's so many Chinese clone tools and eBay discs full of software being used by mobile 'Tuners' (I use that term loosely) for £125 per remap, the prices and public perception of value has been dragged right down.
In an ideal world the tuning industry would be regulated and prices would then quickly even out.
....When you say "We" do you mean Revo or PDT?
PDT is the dyno tuning element that the general public see on a daily basis, we also have a much bigger tuned software business: www.sedox-performance.co.uk I deal with the tech support for the UK dealers and development of VAG and BMW software. We have various offices worldwide that deal with the rest of the world. This way I get to work in a workshop/dyno all day and actually tune cars, not stuck in an office writing software for 8 hours a day.
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Jabbasport have also been tuning VAG cars long before REVO existed :happy2:
Only 5 years according to their respective websites.
I was buying parts for my MK2's from Jabbasport 10-11 years ago, pretty sure they been around since mid/late 90's? :happy2:
1997 according to the Jabbasport website and 2002 for Revo. 2002 - 1997 = 5 :confused:
5 years in the tuning world is a long time :happy2:
Not many 2.0l TFSI's floating around then though. :wink:
1.8T FTW!
No, but they were tuning my MK2's (8V and 16V) before the MK4 came out and then my MK4 1.8T around the time the Mk5 came out. :happy2:
So what you are saying is they are behind the curve. :confused:
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The bigger you get the bigger the prices the greater the hassle.
One way to put it.... I just got a little shed on the out skirts of Leicester.............. a bit like Noble.
I have no intentions to expand R-Tech beyone the end of my nose. All the turnover, gross, net profits, margins, marketing, sales BS, competition and political BS from running a franchise would take my eye of what I enjoy, and thats seeing customers drive away with a huge grin from something the R-Tech team have done.
I have had many offers of major £££ input into R-tech to take the "NAME" worldwide and setup a dealer network. I could sit on a laptop all day just writing generic "safe" codes and emailing them to dealers to flash to customers car, maybe earn £1000 per day by selling 10 maps????? My worry would be does the dealer have the passion like me and is he going to fully inspect the car and make sure its safe to map?
If I was a true buisness man then I would to do it and be rich and have anAudi RS6 at 800bhp..lol but I need to remember what I am, and thats a grease monkey tuner who smells of petrol fumes and goes home every night with a dirty face with a smile knowing everyone is happy.
R-Tech prices are low as its just me Ben and Jim in a small £500 per month shed with a 25 year old Bosch dyno, we all take an average wage so dont need to charge silly money for tuning or aftercare.
My drive is passion not profit and my award is from reading customers reviews on the forums and facebook pages. I could happy earn no money one day but come home and read a glowng customer reveiw and be happy as Larry on acid. :drool:
Nick
PS
Even non R-Tech customers make me grin with there comments..... Cheers Red Robin :drinking:
:congrats: good on you fella.
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The bigger you get the bigger the prices the greater the hassle.
One way to put it.... I just got a little shed on the out skirts of Leicester.............. a bit like Noble.
I have no intentions to expand R-Tech beyone the end of my nose. All the turnover, gross, net profits, margins, marketing, sales BS, competition and political BS from running a franchise would take my eye of what I enjoy, and thats seeing customers drive away with a huge grin from something the R-Tech team have done.
I have had many offers of major £££ input into R-tech to take the "NAME" worldwide and setup a dealer network. I could sit on a laptop all day just writing generic "safe" codes and emailing them to dealers to flash to customers car, maybe earn £1000 per day by selling 10 maps????? My worry would be does the dealer have the passion like me and is he going to fully inspect the car and make sure its safe to map?
If I was a true buisness man then I would to do it and be rich and have anAudi RS6 at 800bhp..lol but I need to remember what I am, and thats a grease monkey tuner who smells of petrol fumes and goes home every night with a dirty face with a smile knowing everyone is happy.
R-Tech prices are low as its just me Ben and Jim in a small £500 per month shed with a 25 year old Bosch dyno, we all take an average wage so dont need to charge silly money for tuning or aftercare.
My drive is passion not profit and my award is from reading customers reviews on the forums and facebook pages. I could happy earn no money one day but come home and read a glowng customer reveiw and be happy as Larry on acid. :drool:
Nick
PS
Even non R-Tech customers make me grin with there comments..... Cheers Red Robin :drinking:
A refreshing read. :happy2:
I would love to feel the same about my own place of work. :sick:
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Jabbasport have also been tuning VAG cars long before REVO existed :happy2:
Only 5 years according to their respective websites.
I was buying parts for my MK2's from Jabbasport 10-11 years ago, pretty sure they been around since mid/late 90's? :happy2:
1997 according to the Jabbasport website and 2002 for Revo. 2002 - 1997 = 5 :confused:
5 years in the tuning world is a long time :happy2:
Not many 2.0l TFSI's floating around then though. :wink:
1.8T FTW!
No, but they were tuning my MK2's (8V and 16V) before the MK4 came out and then my MK4 1.8T around the time the Mk5 came out. :happy2:
So what you are saying is they are behind the curve. :confused:
NO.......................... just Revo and APR choose to artificially keep prices high based on their "Reputation" (Wont say "Name" in case RR get's on one again :grin:).
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NO.......................... just Revo and APR choose to artificially keep prices high based on their "Reputation" (Wont say "Name" in case RR get's on one again :grin:).
....Tut-tut, Myles :sad1: What do you mean by "artificially"? The word normally means "false". You could argue that any and every price which has a profit added is "false" or "artificial". Do you think it wrong for companies to gain profits to cover their overheads and continue making progress?
Whether you call it a 'brand' or a 'name', it's success is invariably built on reputation and reputations are earned irrespective of whether they are good or bad reputations.
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Obviously when Myles sells his RC car parts then he sells them on at cost price Robin. :confused:
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Some items I sell at MUCH less than trade (To clear them) and some at good margins, unlike the tuning industry my products have to compete with other traders/supppliers and my prices reflect this, I cannot hold my prices at twice what others charge and hope they buy from me as I am one of the larger sellers with an established name who pays for marketing :happy2:
I think this high overheads costs argument....etc.... is there to make people feel better about the price they paid for their remap :signLOL:
It's all great having 50+ "Dealers/outlets" who dont cost Revo or APR money (They only provide the maps via email or a master disc etc) but they MAKE money for them.
Company A makes software available (Remap) and ultimately it costs them £50,000 to make said software and they sell it at £300 and have 1 outlet, they also provide full back up for the product and tech support.
Company B makes software available (remap) and They copy it from another tuner :grin: it costs them £50,000 to make said software and they sell it for £600 and have 25+ tuning companies around the country selling their product earning the software supplier £400 and the Tuner £200, the tuner (Via the supplier) also provides full tech support.
How does company B have higher costs/margins than Company A other than providing tech support for a generic (adjustable by the installing tuner) map?, apart from travel costs to go and do the initial deal (I imagine with Awesome those costs are incurred every other year :wink:).
Also how does company B justify charging UK customers £600 for a product developed in UK for the UK market when they are able to sell it in other countries (USA for example) at $500 (£310) (That bit is for you Robin :happy2:) Also it will have been adjusted for different fuel ratings and hotter running temps, More development and "Costs" incurred and the same tech support is provided at surely an even higher cost as tech support will come from UK yet lower price?), strange?, is that profiteeringartificially holding higher costs or do they sell the product in other countries at a loss? (Doubt it :grin:)
I find the whole development argument flawed, no doubt people will come up with "Other" costs but the basic principle is there?.
I made a product for the RC market a few years back (Which at the time was needed) and sold it in UK and Europe, I also sold it via other sellers (re-sellers) who bought the product from me at approx 60% of my retail price (call it trade price if you like), it did not cost me any more for the product (in fact it got cheaper as I was making larger quantities thus lowering my costs) and it was sold at the same cost as I myself charged and I got sales where I would not have done by selling to only in EU, it cost me nothing to market (other shops did it for me), my profit increased and overheads stayed the same. :happy2:
I no longer make the product as I pretty much saturated the market after 18-24 months and it was roughly around that time that the Asian guys started copying it (Which was fine for me as I had made the money I wanted and I simply moved onto something else.
I am sure you are all very happy with your remaps and the price you paid, but, essentially would you have been happier to get the same product for half the price a more competative price?.