MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: f1fan on November 30, 2012, 10:50:56 am
-
Hi, I'd be grateful for some advice from anyone who has been in or knows of a similar situation.
I bought by 58 plate GTi from a VW dealer at the beginning of September. I was told it was an import but was UK spec and was from Germany, the first owner was in Kent and the car was registered in Nov 2008.
After a month or so I realised it wasn't UK spec as the air con system was standard not climatronic, the alarm has no ultrasonics and the leather seats aren't heated.
I phoned VW head office to gain some clarity on their used car guarentee, when speaking to them my car registration didn't show on the UK systems. After supplying the VIN they told me the car was built in Feb 2008 and first registered in Denmark in Mar 2008.
VW head office are opening a case and will be talking to the dealer.
What I'd like to know is what I should be expecting from VW and more importantly what I should be trying to get out of VW?
I suspect there are three outcomes
1. I'm told it's tough - think this is unlikely.
2. They offer fully refund and take the car away - don't really want to do this as I'll have no car and I need it.
3. They offer compensation. In which case what should I expect financially for my car being non uk spec and it being older than they said when I bought it?
Thanks guys, really appreciate advice on this problem before VWhone me back on Monday.
-
If you have been misled and information has been falsified then you have a case. Take it back.
-
had a similar case a couple of years ago
I fitted a gateway in a GTi and noticed it was an import, told the guy and he said it was a UK car.
Looked in the booklets and it was an import
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,28665.0.html
In the end the Dealer took the GTi back and gave him an R32 (which was newer, and cost more than his original car)
-
as far as compensation is concerned, does your insurance company know that your car is now technically an import and is your insurance valid?! as a stand point of crashing your car if it came down to it wold you still be insured? that could have been a huge loss to you finically... i think you need to play out all the technicalities to get the most out of them!
-
If it was me I would want to take the car back.
I imagine you paid decent money for it and there is bound to be another decent spec gti around for the around the same money.
It is a hassle though, but just think of the situation when you come to sell it on/trade it in.
It is outrageous the dealer has misled you in such a way.
-
Depends what you paid for it? If you paid a lot less than an equivalent age and condition uk car then push for compensation and keep it knowing that it will be harder to sell and sell for less.
If knowing that the spec differs is a big thing for you then it sounds like you have been misled, give it back!
-
For a bit more info.
The car was on for £13000, I paid £12500 for it. I thought it was 3yrs 9 months old, 29k on the clock before I worked out it was an import because the reg didn't show on insurance databases. I paid that price believing it to be a normal UK car.
When I confronted the dealer he admitted it was an import was no different to a UK car. I checked with my insurance company and they were fine with it being an import and as it was made in the EU they said I didn't even need to bother telling them! (that was Admiral). So after that I agreed to pick the car up a couple of days later thinking it was fine.
It was down to this forum that I realised the missing alarm sensors (has standard alarm but no ultrasonics, i.e. same as the base S model) and standard air con and lack of heaters in seats.
I'd quite like to keep my car, though I want some serious money back in return. But how much?
-
Im not sure what VW will even offer you and I dont think anyone can guesstimate what there going to offer. I would just pust to an offer that you deem reasonable. Remember the price you paid and what it will be worth when you come to sell it, or were even to sell it now? :happy2:
-
That's the tricky bit, I don't know how much it is worth as an import so I don't know how to calculate the difference :-(
-
It was down to this forum that I realised the missing alarm sensors (has standard alarm but no ultrasonics, i.e. same as the base S model) and standard air con and lack of heaters in seats.
Were heated seats standard with leather?
-
That's the tricky bit, I don't know how much it is worth as an import so I don't know how to calculate the difference :-(
To some people the fact that its an import wouldnt bother them, mainly down to not knowing the difference. I think perhaps weigh up what your car has in terms of extras. And what you could have bought for the same money. For example the heated seats ect ect.
-
Were heated seats standard with leather?
Heated seats also came with the winter pack (headlamp washers, heated washer jets, larger washer tank, low washer fluid warning)
-
Well from what I can work out the following is missing from standard UK spec:
1. Interior sensors for the alarm
2. Climatic Air Conditioning
The optional extras on the car are:
1. Cruise control
2. Parking sensors
3. Leather seats (but not heated and headrests are not embossed with GTi logo)
The car is 6 months older than I was told about.
So, how much is this car worth compared to a UK spec car? Any suggestions on the difference in value?
Eddie-NL, do you have an idea of what it would cost to retrofit the air con system, interior alarm and heated seats, I know you are the king of retrofitting!
-
My advice if you want to keep the car is that yours is effectively an 08 plate being registered in Feb 2008, so look at Parkers and roughly work out the depreciation on there for the age related compensation. As for the specification, personally I'd be looking at getting the dealer to fit a tracker for free to make up for the poor alarm spec and as there isn't much you can do about the heated seats or climate I'd ask for the next two services to be done for free. :smiley:
-
When I confronted the dealer he admitted it was an import was no different to a UK car. I checked with my insurance company and they were fine with it being an import and as it was made in the EU they said I didn't even need to bother telling them! (that was Admiral). So after that I agreed to pick the car up a couple of days later thinking it was fine.
If i am reading this right then you knew it was an import before you actually took delivery from the dealer?
If that is the case then i doubt you will get anything. You took delivery of the car, were happy with the price you were paying, you knew that it was an import, you saw the car and the specification, so i don't understand what you have to be unhappy about? What does the V5C say with regards to registration date, etc?
If it bothered you then you could have rightfully backed out of the deal before taking delivery?
All my opinion obviously, but also when you approach a dealer you might want to have an idea of what you want to achieve.
-
Well from what I can work out the following is missing from standard UK spec:
1. Interior sensors for the alarm
2. Climatic Air Conditioning (you mean Climatronic. People always seem to refer to the standard air conditioning system as climate control, just because it's called climatic.)
The optional extras on the car are:
1. Cruise control
2. Parking sensors
3. Leather seats (but not heated and headrests are not embossed with GTi logo)
The car is 6 months older than I was told about.
So, how much is this car worth compared to a UK spec car? Any suggestions on the difference in value?
Eddie-NL, do you have an idea of what it would cost to retrofit the air con system, interior alarm and heated seats, I know you are the king of retrofitting! I wouldn't even consider retro fitting the climate control as it means a whole load of work taking the dash and everything else in the front out to replace the whole system. The labour costs on this alone would be exorbitant. Best bet would be to get them to take the car back and get a proper UK spec car with this kit in.
-
That's the tricky bit, I don't know how much it is worth as an import so I don't know how to calculate the difference :-(
....You paid £12,500 to a fully approved (we assume) VW UK dealership and they misled you. I think you are owed £12,500 whether it's in the form of another car or not. Depreciation while you have owned it is not a factor IMO - It's the principle of misrepresentation by the dealer under UK law.
I think you should name the VW dealer here in due course.
Keep us posted on the progress of your case, please :happy2:
IMPORTANT NOTE: Do not mod the car in such a way as to contradict its non-UK specification in case it has to be inspected and verified as an import by legal eagles.
-
When I confronted the dealer he admitted it was an import was no different to a UK car. I checked with my insurance company and they were fine with it being an import and as it was made in the EU they said I didn't even need to bother telling them! (that was Admiral). So after that I agreed to pick the car up a couple of days later thinking it was fine.
If i am reading this right then you knew it was an import before you actually took delivery from the dealer?
If that is the case then i doubt you will get anything. You took delivery of the car, were happy with the price you were paying, you knew that it was an import, you saw the car and the specification, so i don't understand what you have to be unhappy about? What does the V5C say with regards to registration date, etc?
If it bothered you then you could have rightfully backed out of the deal before taking delivery?
All my opinion obviously, but also when you approach a dealer you might want to have an idea of what you want to achieve.
He was told by the dealer it was UK spec and it isn't. :happy2:
-
If i am reading this right then you knew it was an import before you actually took delivery from the dealer?
I knew it was an import after paying but before collection, however I was under the impression it was an import direct from Germany in Nov 2008, not that it had come from Denmark and had been registered in Denmark for 6 months prior to export to the UK. I also didn't know my car was not UK spec, I was told it was.
If that is the case then i doubt you will get anything. You took delivery of the car, were happy with the price you were paying, you knew that it was an import, you saw the car and the specification, so i don't understand what you have to be unhappy about?
As I say, I didn't know it's true age, I didn't know it wasn't UK spec (I don't know what full UK spec is, I rely on a genuine VW dealer to sell me a UK car or tell me if it isn't.
What does the V5C say with regards to registration date, etc?
It just says first registered in the UK November 2008. VW UK Head Office told me it was first registered in Denmark 6 months earlier when I phoned them.
If it bothered you then you could have rightfully backed out of the deal before taking delivery?
I wasn't aware of the truth when I bough the car so how I would I have know to back out of the deal?
All my opinion obviously, but also when you approach a dealer you might want to have an idea of what you want to achieve.
Hence why I was asking what difference in value my car is likely to suffer so I know what value to aim for from the dealer.
BTW.. I'm not approaching the dealer, VW UK have opened a case file on the car and will be approaching the dealer on my behalf to find out what's been going on.
-
Go in all guns :fighting:
They have missold you a car
You have paid a premium for a car that doesn't meet their own standards.
See what you can get out of them
-
....You paid £12,500 to a fully approved (we assume) VW UK dealership and they misled you. I think you are owed £12,500 whether it's in the form of another car or not. Depreciation while you have owned it is not a factor IMO - It's the principle of misrepresentation by the dealer under UK law.
I think you should name the VW dealer here in due course.
Keep us posted on the progress of your case, please :happy2:
IMPORTANT NOTE: Do not mod the car in such a way as to contradict its non-UK specification in case it has to be inspected and verified as an import by legal eagles.
I have a feeling this is what VW will offer. Bit gutted if I have to get rid of the car, I know finding another will be hard work and I don't have another car to drive whilst I'm looking.
I will let you know the full outcome when it's finished. Thanks for your advice.
-
don't take anything less than complete satisfaction and if you are without a car till you find another get them to give you a courtesy car
-
It just says first registered in the UK November 2008. VW UK Head Office told me it was first registered in Denmark 6 months earlier when I phoned them.
BTW.. I'm not approaching the dealer, VW UK have opened a case file on the car and will be approaching the dealer on my behalf to find out what's been going on.
Apart from the fact that the dealer have lied/misslead you, i think that part there is your best point for getting something out of a dealer then. VWUK can not make a dealer do anything, although they can apply presure and will do so on your behalf. You will probably have a vw exchange agreement valid for 30 days from taking delivery of your car that you could use.
If you have not already spoken to the dealer it might be worth a try. A nice polite conversation stating your points and suggesting you deserve some form of compensation might work?
Good luck either way. Dealers should be very open and honest about this sort of thing.
-
VW UK are speaking to the dealer today/Monday and will phone me back Monday/Tuesday so I'll just have to wait until next week and see what happens now.
Thanks guys
-
How did you get on? Any news?
-
Any news?
-
Maybe they've bought his silence :grin:
-
wtf, no news, I just read all these posts man and its like someone has chopped of the end of a good film :popcornsoda:
let us know how you are getting on dude,
personally I would have had a polite chat with the dealerships general manager whilst waiting for vw head office to get back to me, would have got it into his head that I aint happy and aint going away.
I would if I had to also inform vw head office that I will be going public with this if the conclusion is not to my satisfaction,
at the end of the day an upgraded car would be nice for the inconvenience
-
2008 the forums were full of people crowing about how they had got x amount off a new gti imported,now we have gone full circle,people moaning they have bought an import it was bound to happen. I dont think the dealer has been particularly devious here,i suspect the info about the car such as the minor spec differences and extra 6 months were not known by the dealer at the time,but luckily for the OP they gave info which turned out to be false so will probably get a good end to it all.
-
You've paid good money for a GTi so i'd personally want a full refund, as there are plenty of GTI examples out there certainly for the budget you had, or for the dealership to compensate you and offer you a different car availabel from within the dealer network.
Good Luck. :happy2:
-
2008 the forums were full of people crowing about how they had got x amount off a new gti imported,now we have gone full circle,people moaning they have bought an import it was bound to happen. I dont think the dealer has been particularly devious here,i suspect the info about the car such as the minor spec differences and extra 6 months were not known by the dealer at the time,but luckily for the OP they gave info which turned out to be false so will probably get a good end to it all.
good point but the dealer has to know things like whether a car is an import or not ( that's their job after all )
you have paid a lot of cash here, same as I paid 2 months ago for mine in very similar spec, mileage age etc although I have xenons etc,,,, you need your car so a refund is not the best thing as you have said,
if you don't want to go down that route maybe some kind of percentage refund might suit you, they cant really swap it for a better one as you are near the top of the tree with the one you got and I can bet you they wont be able to source another one as the dealers simply do not have enough gti's to supply demand, mk5 or mk6,
because the gti is so much more expensive than a basic golf they only sell one gti to every 100 normal golfs or something like that.
if it was me I would be looking for an apology
a good percentage back up to 30%
or an upgrade to an r32 or something with no cash outlay.
im only saying this as you said it is not convenient for you to be without the car.
if I didn't get what I wanted I would go to the press and name and shame them,,,,, would be warning them about this before hand though,,,, maybe by e-mailing their ceo directly.
-
The optional extras on the car are:
1. Cruise control
2. Parking sensors
3. Leather seats (but not heated and headrests are not embossed with GTi logo)
All 3 of those could've been added by the previous owner. There's a sticker in the handbook with a bunch of codes on it that tells you the spec when it left the factory. My car had leather when I bought it, but had cloth seats originally and therefore has no seat heating...
http://vag-codes.info/files/options/vag-option-codes.pdf
-
Hi everyone, sorry for not updating you sooner, it's taken a long time to get some response from the dealer after many phone calls with head office.
I finally spoke to the sales manager yesterday who said that they knew the car was an import when they bought it/traded it in and that when the sold it they priced it £2000 cheaper to reflect this. I find that very very hard to believe as at the time although the mileage was a good (29k on a 3.5 yr old car), the spec was pretty basic and the price didn't stand out as being £2000 cheaper than other cars I had looked at.
The sales manager couldn't explain why the salesman hadn't told me the car was an import before I paid for it! The sales manager also said they did an Experian check which said the car was first registered in Nov 2008, they didn't check with VW head office (even though they know the car is an import) to check the details of the car prior to import so they didn't know it was 6 months old when it was imported.
I'm waiting for him to phone me back this afternoon after he has discussed the matter with his superior. I have no idea what will be offered, I suspect a very low amount of money.
ScottM72, thanks for your reply. I'm doubting they will offer a refund. I'm expecting to fight for cash, but I don't know how much. I don't believe the car was £2000 under priced when I paid £12500 (forecourt price was £13000). So 30% would be £3750. I think that might be a big ask!?
-
I think its worth pushing for a lot therfore they can come back at you and settle somewhere in the middle where you would be happy with. This is IF they offer anything. I don't want to put a downer on your hopes but its never happened before.
I would keep pushing! :happy2: They lied!! :fighting:
-
I think its worth pushing for a lot therfore they can come back at you and settle somewhere in the middle where you would be happy with. This is IF they offer anything. I don't want to put a downer on your hopes but its never happened before.
I would keep pushing! :happy2: They lied!! :fighting:
Cheers Chris. I'll be pushing them, just hoping I don't have to go down the legal route.
-
I dont want to put a downer on it either but I'd be surprised if he even calls you back.
Really hope I'm wrong though, goodluck.
-
The optional extras on the car are:
1. Cruise control
2. Parking sensors
3. Leather seats (but not heated and headrests are not embossed with GTi logo)
All 3 of those could've been added by the previous owner. There's a sticker in the handbook with a bunch of codes on it that tells you the spec when it left the factory. My car had leather when I bought it, but had cloth seats originally and therefore has no seat heating...
http://vag-codes.info/files/options/vag-option-codes.pdf
I've checked the codes from the sticker in the boot. The full list is below. Note it does NOT have cruise control or parking sensors and it says Fabric seats!!!!
So the big question, if these were all after market fitted then what impact does that have on the car value.... is it worth even less??
Code Description
0AE Front stabilizer
0BF Rear stabilizer
0GG Emissions concept EU 4
0Y1 Standard climatic zones
0YC Weight category rear axle weight range 3
1AT Electronic stabilization program (ESP)
1G8 Breakdown set
1KY "Disc brakes, rear"
1LL "Disc brakes, front"
1NL Covers for alloy wheels
1XU Mass damper
2G7 Filler neck module 1 with insert
2JG Body-colored bumpers
2UC Sports version
3S0 Without roof rails/roof load rack
3U3 Luggage compartment cover with luggage net
3YR Door pockets with insert mats
4K3 Radio remote controlled central locking operated from inside and safe securing
4R4 Power windows with comfort operation andcircuit breaker
4UF Drivers and front passenger air bag with front passenger air bag deactivation
4X3 Side airbag front with curtain airbag
5MD Decorative aluminum inserts
5RV Outer right rear view mirror: non-spherical
5SJ Outer left rear view mirror: convex
8AG US RADIO STEREO CR.
8GU Alternator 140A
8ZN Antenna
B0N "Component parts set, complying with vehicle type for Great Britain, various parts"
CG6 "Alloy wheels 7 1/2J x 17 3B7 601 025 A, offset 45"
D2L "4-cyl. gasoline engine 2.0 L/147 kW 16V turbo FSI, homogeneous base engine is T59/T61"
E0A No special edition
G08 Front shock absorption
G0K 6-speed manual transmission
H6L Tires 225/45 R 17 91W/Y tire width restricted to 219mm
J0L Battery 340 A (70 Ah)
L98 "Suspension range 98 installation control only, no requirement forecast"
N2T Fabric seat covering
QG1 Service interval prolongation
T59 "Components for base engine, unit 06F.C"
-
I would phone to organize a meeting with the manager at the dealership and present your case. I couldn't have this hanging around - you have more than enough here to make the whole transaction look unlawful.
An approved VW dealership is meant to provide a quality used car service you can trust... guaranteed... or so their spiel states: http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/used/what-approval-means#tab6
-
Well I'm having phone conversations with the Sales Manager, he's in turn talking to the Brand Manager before coming back to me. If it's not resolved satisfactorily then I'll have to escalate it.
Unfortunately the dealer is not local so it's a pain to get down there and see them.
-
.
It's important that you remain calm and polite but make it absolutely clear to them that you will take this case as far as necessary to gain satisfaction and recoup ALL costs as a result of what you consider to be their misconduct. Be prepared to take this case to VW UK - In fact I would make them aware of your case anyway.
Also, do not be afraid to go legal on this. Citizens Advice Bureau can help you get free advice and protect your consumer's rights. Be strong and positive about this or they will just take advantage of you.... Again!
Keep us posted :happy2:
-
Any idea if the was imported by motorpoint ?
You need to decide exactly what you want, do you want to keep the car, do you want the missing extras, do you want the difference back ?
Ask them to provide copies of the pricing to show the car was priced lower because it is an import, have a look on the vw used car locator as imports regularly come up on there, they are clearly marked as imports and at a cheaper price.
The dealer should be able to get pricing but make sure you get it for cap and glasses as they do differ, they should list px prices and forecourt pricing, obviously the actual price is at the discretion of the dealer.
Having nearly purchased an import ford puma I'm well aware of the reasons for not wanting one, we found out in time and managed to get our deposit back. Ours was being sold at uk pricing which is why we had an issue.
You could also try and get some px prices, try we buy any car etc, go through as if it's a uk car then put it through as an import and see if it makes a difference.
That said the dealer did notify you it was an import before sale, even if it was 5 minutes before cash was handed ove (just guessing here) you were well aware it was imported, they may argue you were told it might not be uk spec and if nothing is written down then it might be your word against theirs.
Also run the quotes based on the car being 6 months older than you were told, again use both cap and glasses pricing. It might be worth paying for some of the online prices. From this I would then write to th dealer explaining what you want from this, give them copies of the information and send it recorded signed for (special delivery) but you must decide what outcome you want before going any further. I'm guessing you can go as missold, if you like the car and your not bothered about the extras then you could keep the car and get some money back.
Good luck.
-
.
It's important that you remain calm and polite but make it absolutely clear to them that you will take this case as far as necessary to gain satisfaction and recoup ALL costs as a result of what you consider to be their misconduct. Be prepared to take this case to VW UK - In fact I would make them aware of your case anyway.
Also, do not be afraid to go legal on this. Citizens Advice Bureau can help you get free advice and protect your consumer's rights. Be strong and positive about this or they will just take advantage of you.... Again!
Keep us posted :happy2:
Hi RedRobin
VW UK are already on the case as I went to them first to find out the true history of the car. They phone me nearly everyday to see how things are going and to keep pressure on the dealer so I can't complain at VW UK, they have been really good so far.
I'll be looking at Citizens Advice tomorrow, will try to remain calm :smiley:
-
^^^^
That's very reassuring to know that VW UK are so concerned.
I do think that SteveTDCi's posted advice is also worth considering too - That is, what you would ideally want to gain from all this hassle.
To my mind there should be a compensation element included of some description. It's a matter of being reasonable in any demands you try to make.
-
Any idea if the was imported by motorpoint ?
I think it was Motorpoint, I remember finding an old tax disc holder somewhere that I think had Motorpoint on the back. I think I binned it though :sad1:
Ask them to provide copies of the pricing to show the car was priced lower because it is an import, have a look on the vw used car locator as imports regularly come up on there, they are clearly marked as imports and at a cheaper price.
I saw the car on the VW locator, it wasn't labelled as an import. I printed it to PDF and kept it luckily so can prove that!
That said the dealer did notify you it was an import before sale, even if it was 5 minutes before cash was handed ove (just guessing here) you were well aware it was imported, they may argue you were told it might not be uk spec and if nothing is written down then it might be your word against theirs.
The dealer did NOT notify me it was an import before purchase. I had already paid in full and was trying to arrange insurance when I discovered a problem with the car. After I confronted them they admitted it was an import but was normal spec... I even asked what price difference there was on the import and the sales guy said it made no difference to the price.... funny as the sales manager is now claiming that it had been reduced £2000 because it was an import!!
Also run the quotes based on the car being 6 months older than you were told, again use both cap and glasses pricing.
Checked that this afternoon, the extra six months devalues the car by around £500.
-
Hope you get this sorted , glad vw uk are helping
sent using my own fingers
-
Ah, so if they didn't notify you that it was an import then you should have a case as not being advertised, I'd probably avoid the term missold (teen tho technically it is) I'd prefer to say its not as advertised. The dealer would know it was an import and they would mark it as less, that's the point I argued with our puma.
I still think you need to decide what you want from all of this,they will drag it out in the hope you give up. Get youse,f some paper and write down everything. From now on write down dates, times and who you spoke to. I would still write to the dealer. If it was me and I was happy with the car I would just go for the difference between what you paid and what ts true forecourt value was.
You need to be organised and have know exactly what you want.
-
Oh and if I get chance I'll try and find out from some of the dealers I use ref import pricing.
-
^^^^
That's very reassuring to know that VW UK are so concerned.
I do think that SteveTDCi's posted advice is also worth considering too - That is, what you would ideally want to gain from all this hassle.
To my mind there should be a compensation element included of some description. It's a matter of being reasonable in any demands you try to make.
I've just read through SteveTDCi's post and will definitely consider his thoughts. I'm very grateful to everyone on here for their thoughts and help. I'll keep plugging away at the problem and see how it goes. Could do without the stress to be honest but I can't give up or I stand to loose thousands.
-
If you get chance get a px from a dealer, see what they come up with then tell them it's an import.
-
Absolute silence from the dealer since my last post, very frustrating!
I've had VW UK phone me, they don't seem impressed with the dealer and keep apologising to me. I expect VW UK will be giving the dealer a hard time next week.
-
Absolute silence from the dealer since my last post, very frustrating!
I've had VW UK phone me, they don't seem impressed with the dealer and keep apologising to me. I expect VW UK will be giving the dealer a hard time next week.
....In a way that's actually good news. It would be a very uphill battle indeed if VW UK were on the dealer's side.
It sounds to me as if the dealer is ignoring you in the hope that you'll give up and go away. By their apology it sounds as if VW UK, subject to more detailed information, are starting off very much on your side. Perhaps that dealer has points against them with VW UK already.
As I expect you already know, VW dealerships are merely a kind of franchise - Each is an independent car business which allows VW UK to shopfit and style their premises to a preset corporate design. Each independent is under contract to provide services etc to a Volkswagen standard which VW UK approve of - Volkswagen can't afford to let independents misbehave and bring their brand into disrepute. VW UK hold the whip hand.
-
Have you put it in writting to the dealership yet ? They won't be in no rush to do anything until you force the issue.
-
Have you put it in writting to the dealership yet ? They won't be in no rush to do anything until you force the issue.
....Definitely put it in writing and use the opportunity to confirm in the letter everything that has until now only been verbal. Be calm and polite in any letter but you can still express how deeply disappointed you are etc - Just choose the right words. Words like "You fecking arseholes..." will not work in your favour!
In other words, put it all on the record. Send a copy to VW UK too but don't necessarily tell your dealer that you're doing so. Catch them out.
And set it out clearly but concisely, not a long rambling multi-page unparagraphed rant which nobody will want to bother to digest. I'm not saying you write like that but some folks do.
-
Have you put it in writting to the dealership yet ? They won't be in no rush to do anything until you force the issue.
Yes, a while back now, got a generic written response from the CEO of the group, but after I've only had one phone call with the sales manager, VW UK are chasing the dealer to contact me.
-
Absolute silence from the dealer since my last post, very frustrating!
I've had VW UK phone me, they don't seem impressed with the dealer and keep apologising to me. I expect VW UK will be giving the dealer a hard time next week.
....In a way that's actually good news. It would be a very uphill battle indeed if VW UK were on the dealer's side.
It sounds to me as if the dealer is ignoring you in the hope that you'll give up and go away. By their apology it sounds as if VW UK, subject to more detailed information, are starting off very much on your side. Perhaps that dealer has points against them with VW UK already.
As I expect you already know, VW dealerships are merely a kind of franchise - Each is an independent car business which allows VW UK to shopfit and style their premises to a preset corporate design. Each independent is under contract to provide services etc to a Volkswagen standard which VW UK approve of - Volkswagen can't afford to let independents misbehave and bring their brand into disrepute. VW UK hold the whip hand.
VW UK are definitely on my side, the customer service guy looking after my case said to me that the dealer had clearly made mistakes and they expect the dealer to resolve the situation, not quite sure what that means yet!
-
Have you put it in writting to the dealership yet ? They won't be in no rush to do anything until you force the issue.
Yes, a while back now, got a generic written response from the CEO of the group, but after I've only had one phone call with the sales manager, VW UK are chasing the dealer to contact me.
....If the dealer only contacts you by phone and not in writing, then I would politely ask them to put in writing to you what they say.
IF this happens to become a contested and argumentative case, you'll be very glad you had written records to back up any claim or satisfactory resolution to the matter.
-
VW UK are definitely on my side, the customer service guy looking after my case said to me that the dealer had clearly made mistakes and they expect the dealer to resolve the situation, not quite sure what that means yet!
....That's very good news from your point of view.
It's sounding as if it's going to quickly (we all hope) be resolved and simply down to what you are offered.
Please forgive me if I'm talking to you as if you weren't capable - I'm just trying to contribute help when I suggest that you take time to consider what you are offered and don't just accept it immediately on the phone. That is unless they say they want to give you a free new Golf R !!
-
VW UK are definitely on my side, the customer service guy looking after my case said to me that the dealer had clearly made mistakes and they expect the dealer to resolve the situation, not quite sure what that means yet!
....That's very good news from your point of view.
It's sounding as if it's going to quickly (we all hope) be resolved and simply down to what you are offered.
Please forgive me if I'm talking to you as if you weren't capable - I'm just trying to contribute help when I suggest that you take time to consider what you are offered and don't just accept it immediately on the phone. That is unless they say they want to give you a free new Golf R !!
Thanks for the help and advice, I'm quite prepared to take as much time and whatever action needed to resolve the situation. I refuse to make quick decisions on any offer they make, unless it's another mk5 GTi of equal spec in UK form!
-
A few years ( well I guess 10 at least!!) ago I bought a 225 tt from the local Audi dealer.
I had a problem with an inconsistent brake pedal. The car went to and fro a few times with no resolution. In the end they swapped it out for a newer car with 300 instead of 20,000 miles, better spec wheels and Bose sound as well as a cherished reg no.
They can do it if they want. Keep on VW's case in a nice way. They will look at the bigger picture (for VW) and wont really be too bothered if the dealer takes a hit as its not their money.....
-
After some further chasing the dealer emailed me yesterday to say he was about to talk to the brand manager and would send me their response along with paperwork regarding its last service that I asked for.
So I'm expecting a letter very soon, I doubt it will offer much if anything.
I wrote to the CAB and they replied giving me some details on The Sale of Goods Act 1979, it says...
Under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (As Amended) all goods supplied by a trader to a consumer must be ‘as described’ – the goods should match any description that was given before the goods were purchased. If the goods do not match the description, then you may have a short time in which to return the goods to the trader and ask for a refund. After this your rights will be to claim:
- a repair or a like-for-like replacement; or if neither of these are possible -
- an appropriate level of refund (this may take into account usage).
Not sure what short time is, I didn't understand the issue until several months after purchase, an appropriate level of refund could mean being out of pocket.
Why do I think this might end up going to court?!? :sad1:
-
My contact at VW UK rang me today to see if I had received a response from the dealer, unsurprisingly the answer was no.
He then told me he had found out today that the sales manager at the dealers was no longer in the business!!
So now VW UK are trying to track down the Brand Manager of the business and get something moving.
Anyone recommend a good solicitor in the Guildford area??
BTW before anyone assumes wrongly, the dealer I'm having trouble with is not in the Guildford area!
-
^^^^
The fact that VW UK are being pro-active and phoning you about this matter shows that they are seriously interested in resolving it. You may not need a solicitor, unless you want advice from one regards your legal rights and therefore what can be negotiated with VW UK.
Good news, mate :happy2:
-
Well I received a letter from the dealer last week which basically said they had already priced the car as an import so that was that (despite never telling me!). They were not going to do anything else about it.
I was just finishing a letter back to them saying I was going to take them to court when I got a phone call from Trading Standards. They had been given the case details by Citizens Advice who I'd previously contacted and they were very keen to take on my case. The Trading Standards officer felt it was very clear they had broken the law, as long as the paperwork didn't show it was an import, which it doesn't.
So, I spent the weekend scanning all my documentation and emailed it to Trading Standards last night. They will now pay a visit to the dealer and hopefully that will result in the dealer changing it's mind on it's decision. If not, I expect Trading Standards to tell me to take them to court.
-
^^^^
Has the dealer included a copy to VW UK of their letter to you? It would normally state so if that was the case.
As VW UK appear to be on your side, or at the least very sympathetic to your case, they may now be in a stronger position to act. I don't expect they'll want Trading Standards publicity against the VW brand's reputation due to their dealer. The dealer carries their VW 'flag' and is seen by all in the public domain as their direct representative.
I assume that Trading Standards (TS) are aware of the organisational structure and how VW UK fits into the situation. I suggest they should be made aware. The dealer will not want to risk losing its valuable VW dealership which includes impressive shopfitting to their premises and many other trading advantages. I expect that VW UK can put great pressure on the dealership, especially as the dealer has now officially declared its position in writing to you.
So, CAB advised contacting TS and your case is becoming much stronger :happy2:
-
No, the dealer didn't copy the letter to VW UK. VW UK rang me to find out if the letter arrived, they didn't know what the letter said so I told them on the phone and said how angry I was. VW UK apologised for the dealer not giving a satisfactory answer.
VW UK are very good at chasing the dealer and getting them to phone, write etc, however they don't seem to have been able to influence the dealer so far. I'll send a copy of the letter to them today and also let the know that TS are now on the case.
I have to say CAB gave me a quick response by email and informed TS straight away, TS were very quick to respond and very keen to get involved. TS said that they would review my paperwork the visit the dealer to look at their paperwork and find out why the dealer didn't disclose the import status, specification differences and the resulting difference in car value when I bought it.
I'm feeling slightly more positive now, fingers crossed for a refund, the only problem then is finding another car to replace mine!!
-
^^^^
Thanks for keeping us so fully informed - It's very helpful for anyone else facing a similar situation :happy2:
Stage 1 - Achieve agreement.
Stage 2 - According to what VW UK offer you - You don't know yet whether it will be a refund or a sweet deal on a car or even a car (it has been known). First achieve Stage 1.
-
Had a call from Trading Standards on Monday, they were going into the dealer on Tuesday to collect the dealers paperwork and records so they can investigate the dealers activity! I'm hoping to hear back from them today or tomorrow with the final verdict. Then I can go back to the dealer and see if they have changed their mind or whether I take them to court. I'll let you know what TS say.
-
Bet the dealers are taking notice now with ts going into the office
-
Had a call from Trading Standards on Monday, they were going into the dealer on Tuesday to collect the dealers paperwork and records so they can investigate the dealers activity! I'm hoping to hear back from them today or tomorrow with the final verdict. Then I can go back to the dealer and see if they have changed their mind or whether I take them to court. I'll let you know what TS say.
....Tee-hee! Very nice! :happy2: Serious looking officials visiting unannounced is never a cool look in a sales showroom.
What goes around comes around. You reap what you sow, etc.
Do VW UK know about the TS visit?
-
Hi
Sorry for the long gap in posting, it's been a very long drawn out affair that still isn't resolved yet!
The dealer agreed to enter into negotiations using the trading standards officer as an intermediary. TSOs final opinion was the car was clearly missold however it appears the company wasn't behaving fraudulently just incompetently particularly by the salesman.
I said I wanted:
1) A full refund
2) A replacement UK spec car
3) 30% of the original sale price refunded - £3750
The dealer then asked me for a list of the differences between my car and a UK spec car which are.:
a) alarm system has no interior ultra sonic protection
b) air con is normal manual climate control not digital climatronic
c) the seats are retro fitted manual leather seats without GTi embossing instead of electric controlled, heated leather seats with embossed head rests.
After all that at the end of last week the dealer sent me a letter offering £1250. £450 for the cars specification and £800 compensation for poor service.
So... this weekend my challenge is how to respond to the last letter!?!
BTW, VW UK basically said it was out of their hands and couldn't do anymore though they did ask if I'd let them know the final outcome, which could be some time still if I end up taking the dealer to court.
-
That's an insult.
Try and find out what the original optional extra cost was for those options then add 800, I'd bet you'd be somewhere close to your number 3 figure above. Also I'd add in resale value of the car, not being UK spec.
Definitely wouldn't accept 1250.
Keep going mate you've done very well to get this far :happy2:
-
By them putting in an initial offer is them accepting liability... Now you just need to an agree a fee...
-
Surely the cost of them refunding you all your money back will be the cheapest option? The amount they have offered in compo can't be far off what they'd loose if re-selling. Then all parties would be happy
-
A good challenging point there, perhaps they know that they wouldn't be able to sell it for anywhere close to that.
-
Very interesting reading. I hope you get a good financial settlement in the end.
Apologies if this has been said earlier, a I haven't read every post, but as the car is on a 58 plate but was registered in Denmark 6 months earlier, doesn't this mean that Motorpoint must have falsely declared this car as new at first registration in the UK. I.e it is illegally displaying a number plate that makes it look newer than it is? For me this us the biggest issue with the car, not that the spec is wrong. Won't the OP need to contact DVLA to get them to reregister the car as an 08?
I remember when I bought my GTI 6 years ago that Motorpoint had brand new GTIs for about the same money. I went as far as giving them a call to check the specification at which point they told me the cars were imported. They had loads of them at the time and I was very tempted until they told me it didn't come with a 3 year warranty because it was an import but instead they gave a 30 day (yes i do mean day) warranty. There was no way I was going to spend nearly £20k on a brand new car and only get a months warranty.
-
Very interesting reading. I hope you get a good financial settlement in the end.
Apologies if this has been said earlier, a I haven't read every post, but as the car is on a 58 plate but was registered in Denmark 6 months earlier, doesn't this mean that Motorpoint must have falsely declared this car as new at first registration in the UK. I.e it is illegally displaying a number plate that makes it look newer than it is? For me this us the biggest issue with the car, not that the spec is wrong. Won't the OP need to contact DVLA to get them to reregister the car as an 08?
VW UK were a bit hazy about the Danish history. I think their exact words was it was made in Feb 2008 and shipped out to a Danish dealer (that he could pronounce on the phone) in Mar 2008. I asked if it had been registered, he assumed or guessed so but actually that's probably not the case. The only way to to be sure is to check the VIN number with the Danish equivalent of the DVLA. it was shipped to the UK but I don't know when. I believe Motorpoint imported it and then had it sitting in the UK until it was sold and then registered in Nov 2008. So I think legally its fine as it was first registered as new in the UK in Nov 2008, when it was made and how long it took to get to the first owner is irrelevant really. It's not much different to buying a car made in the UK that sat in a compound for months.
I remember when I bought my GTI 6 years ago that Motorpoint had brand new GTIs for about the same money. I went as far as giving them a call to check the specification at which point they told me the cars were imported. They had loads of them at the time and I was very tempted until they told me it didn't come with a 3 year warranty because it was an import but instead they gave a 30 day (yes i do mean day) warranty. There was no way I was going to spend nearly £20k on a brand new car and only get a months warranty.
I think mine is one of those Motorpoint cars!
-
I think ,If it was me id just want my money back and buy something else
-
That's how I originally felt, but to be honest that's not very likely. I love my car now and am happy to keep it as long as Ive paid the price it's worth!
-
VW UK were a bit hazy about the Danish history. I think their exact words was it was made in Feb 2008 and shipped out to a Danish dealer (that he could pronounce on the phone) in Mar 2008. I asked if it had been registered, he assumed or guessed so but actually that's probably not the case. The only way to to be sure is to check the VIN number with the Danish equivalent of the DVLA. it was shipped to the UK but I don't know when. I believe Motorpoint imported it and then had it sitting in the UK until it was sold and then registered in Nov 2008. So I think legally its fine as it was first registered as new in the UK in Nov 2008, when it was made and how long it took to get to the first owner is irrelevant really. It's not much different to buying a car made in the UK that sat in a compound for months.
OK yes, as long as it was never registered in Denmark then it is all fine. I suspect the delivered to Denmark, shipped to UK theory is probably right as this is how most imported cars make there way through the system from manufacturer to forecourt. It's perfectly believable that it took 6 months from being delivered in Denmark to being sold in the UK as new car sales were a bit slow back in 2008.
Good luck with your claim.
-
That's how I originally felt, but to be honest that's not very likely. I love my car now and am happy to keep it as long as Ive paid the price it's worth!
You are after £3750, they have offered £1250 so maybe suggest to them you would accept somewhere in the middle say £2500?
-
That's how I originally felt, but to be honest that's not very likely. I love my car now and am happy to keep it as long as Ive paid the price it's worth!
You are after £3750, they have offered £1250 so maybe suggest to them you would accept somewhere in the middle say £2500?
.... x 2
As previously said, they are admitting being at fault (or being responsible for the issue) and therefore are opening negotiation with a low offer.
Stay calm in your negotiations. :happy2:
-
Well after 4-5 months I finally have a resolution. The dealer agreed to pay me £1875 as final settlement in my complaint. It's a bit less than I had hoped for but I don't think I have done too badly in the end. I've basically paid £10375 for a 3.5 year old 26k mile GTi (well it was back in September when I bought it!).
Thanks for the help and advice everyone.... I can now spend some of that money on changing my car, new stereo and some metal number plates are the first purchase. :smiley:
-
^^^
Good to hear you finally have a conclusion to the issue and can now 'properly' enjoy the motor :happy2:
-
Glad you have reached a 'satisfactory' resolution and now have £1875 to spend on mods :happy2: