MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: TIGER-UPPERCUT on December 18, 2012, 11:31:59 am
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Hi guys Im running R-Tech stage 1 at the moment and looking to get 3" downpipe + decat attached onto the standard exhaust.
Can I run a stage 2 map with this upgrade or is it necessary to upgrade the intercooler ? I would rather not have to upgrade the intercooler as I dont track the car and its fairly costly to do so.
Thanks
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YOu could run the stage 2 map with that setup no worries at all, but map dependant, heat soak might start to become an issue.
Given the choice i would go for the intercooler before the downpipe personally
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YOu could run the stage 2 map with that setup no worries at all, but map dependant, heat soak might start to become an issue.
Given the choice i would go for the intercooler before the downpipe personally
In what situation will heat soak become a problem? Most of my driving is motorway related...Im just trying to gauge will it be detrimental to the performance of the car if I went stage 2 without the intercooler. Im running 241BHP 299 torque at the moment, was looking at getting over 250BHP with the downpipe and decat?
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Stage 2 K03 you should be fine, you might want to add a CAI though ... Intercooler is only really needed stage 2+, but can always benefit at whatever stage, especially in the summer months...
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Im on stage 2 in a KO3 gti and only have standard intercooler.
I do get some heat soak if really giving it hell but does not cause a problem most of the time.
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Stage 2 K03 you should be fine, you might want to add a CAI though ... Intercooler is only really needed stage 2+, but can always benefit at whatever stage, especially in the summer months...
Thanks E30Dom for the reply. I did experiment with a CAI kit but found it too noisy and the twintake which I think is quieter than the open filter ones is a bit too pricey for my budget.
Ive had a reply back from RTech saying if I didnt want to go for the intercooler then it would be a stage 1.5 map with just the downpipe & decat.
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I was thinking of going stage 2 next year and was wondering the same thing.
Would an S3 intercooler be sufficient enough?
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I was thinking of going stage 2 next year and was wondering the same thing.
Would an S3 intercooler be sufficient enough?
Yes mate but the labour involved to put one on makes it fairly costly, although you can pick the S3 intercooler at reasonable prices. Other option is the Airtec twincooler more expensive to but but less labour involved to fit it as it goes behind your bumper.
I'm still debating the idea of going for stage 2 :). Do I really need it in my life? Lol.
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I'd be fitting it myself so no labour costs, just plenty swearing and bloody knuckles lol. I like the look of the Airtecs behing the front bumper but then again I like keeping things looking stock. If a second hand airtec came up for sale when I get round to buying an intercooler good chance I'd go for that instead of the S3 one
I'm just going straight to stage 2, saves me having your predicament later on :smiley:
I'm sure you won't regret once you go ahead with it.
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I'd be fitting it myself so no labour costs, just plenty swearing and bloody knuckles lol. I like the look of the Airtecs behing the front bumper but then again I like keeping things looking stock. If a second hand airtec came up for sale when I get round to buying an intercooler good chance I'd go for that instead of the S3 one
I'm just going straight to stage 2, saves me having your predicament later on :smiley:
I'm sure you won't regret once you go ahead with it.
Yeah if you can fit yourself then saves a lot of money. I think you can get a black Airtec so not really visible. Not in Manchester are you by any chance? Lol
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Nah I'm up in Aberdeen lol
Noticed there's one up for sale in the classifieds just now.
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Im on stage 2 in a KO3 gti and only have standard intercooler.
I do get some heat soak if really giving it hell but does not cause a problem most of the time.
....Me too but I don't get heatsoak problems on fast road use.
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Im on stage 2 in a KO3 gti and only have standard intercooler.
I do get some heat soak if really giving it hell but does not cause a problem most of the time.
....Me too but I don't get heatsoak problems on fast road use.
I bet you do to a certain extent... you just are not aware of it. On the dyno heatsoak is a nightmare. Run a 2.0T with OEM IC twice in quick succession and you'll see about 10bhp reduction.
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Are there any 'stand out' intercooler options for an ED30/GTI, I've read SteveP's review of the THS unit which is very informative and certainly makes the THS come across as a good option.
How does the Forge Twintercooler rate against it...............or in fact any others for a Revo stage2 car?
Cheers, Andy.
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Personally i would either do S3.. or THS. Im intending to do neither... :signLOL:
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I hear what you're saying Rich........I'm yet to find a cheap one :signLOL:
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The cooling on the oem fmic is fine, the issues are the aircon rad fins becoming bent and limiting are flow to the fmic core which causes elevated air temps.
The oem fmic has a pressure drop of around 3-4psi from hot side turbo outlet to the cold side which costs around 20-30bhp in flow efficiency.
I have found the S3 alloy fmic setup work best on the GTi k03 setup for stage 2, I recently tuned a Leon Tfsi K03 to 300lbft 293bhp just using a turbo back full exhaust, S3 alloy fmic, a Forge twin take and 5 mm actuator adjustment. There is NO need to upgrade the HFFP as I have found the OEM unit will work happy at 280-295bhp at 120bhp with the k03.
Nick
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Been very pleased with my alloy S3 cooler on my stage2+ ko4 car... Especially on these colder days ;-)
Easy to fit DIY ;-)
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There is NO need to upgrade the HFFP as I have found the OEM unit will work happy at 280-295bhp at 120bhp with the k03.
Nick
....I know you are an expert tuner and I respect your opinions but, if I have understood your post correctly, there is every advantage in upgrading your HPFP when running an efficient aftermarket air intake on Stage 2 (Revo). In my case, changing to an APR fuel pump made a significant and noticeable difference in how the power is delivered.
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Im on stage 2 in a KO3 gti and only have standard intercooler.
I do get some heat soak if really giving it hell but does not cause a problem most of the time.
....Me too but I don't get heatsoak problems on fast road use.
I bet you do to a certain extent... you just are not aware of it. On the dyno heatsoak is a nightmare. Run a 2.0T with OEM IC twice in quick succession and you'll see about 10bhp reduction.
....You are probably right, Rich, but it's not noticeable and therefore insignificant as far as I'm concerned. I go by what I feel when driving and not the technical science of it. You and I are totally opposite in our approach to this and similar things (music, for example). :happy2:
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Been very pleased with my alloy S3 cooler on my stage2+ ko4 car... Especially on these colder days ;-)
Easy to fit DIY ;-)
Hi Dom how long does it take to fit mate?
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There is NO need to upgrade the HFFP as I have found the OEM unit will work happy at 280-295bhp at 120bhp with the k03.
Nick
....I know you are an expert tuner and I respect your opinions but, if I have understood your post correctly, there is every need to upgrade your HPFP when running an efficient aftermarket air intake on Stage 2 (Revo). In my case, changing to an APR fuel pump made a significant and noticeable difference in how the power is delivered.
I think that's down to your map Robin, the Revo maps are quite thirsty under a lot of load (why you often see black smoke on dyno days). IIRC the fueling map under load on Revo dumps a load of fuel in similar to the OEM map.
You will possibly lose a little midrange power (as that's where the OEM HPFP struggles) but top end, the OEM pump will flow 300bhp - hence Mandy ran 300+ bhp before upgrading her HPFP. the ed30 has same pump and same cams (or very similar cams) to the K03 engine :happy2:
A custom map can work the midrange around the limits of your OEM HPFP and still deliver top end - that's if I understood what Nick was explaining to me :grin: - I'm sure he will correct me if not :wink:
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Im on stage 2 in a KO3 gti and only have standard intercooler.
I do get some heat soak if really giving it hell but does not cause a problem most of the time.
....Me too but I don't get heatsoak problems on fast road use.
I bet you do to a certain extent... you just are not aware of it. On the dyno heatsoak is a nightmare. Run a 2.0T with OEM IC twice in quick succession and you'll see about 10bhp reduction.
....You are probably right, Rich, but it's not noticeable and therefore insignificant as far as I'm concerned. I go by what I feel when driving and not the technical science of it. You and I are totally opposite in our approach to this and similar things (music, for example). :happy2:
Just for the record.... i have not felt heatsoak on the road either. I gave mine a good seeing to today for a good 30-40mins and felt no loss in power, but it doesnt mean it didnt happen. Im just going off what i have witnessed on my car during RR days.
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you should try driving two tuned cars next to each other on the road, one with an uprated IC and one without. You'll see the difference then straight away and its pretty big.
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Took me about 7 hours to fit on my own... Including modifying the GTi hoses and cleaning stuff as I went lol
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I have found the OEM unit will work happy at 280-295bhp at 120bhp with the k03.
Nick is that a typo as I suspect you really meant 120 bar...
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you should try driving two tuned cars next to each other on the road, one with an uprated IC and one without. You'll see the difference then straight away and its pretty big.
....Sy, you are not helping at all! [Must not mod with an IC... Must not mod with an IC... Must not mod with an IC...]
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you should try driving two tuned cars next to each other on the road, one with an uprated IC and one without. You'll see the difference then straight away and its pretty big.
....Sy, you are not helping at all! [Must not mod with an IC... Must not mod with an IC... Must not mod with an IC...]
I thought exactly the same as you do and found out that personally on my Octavia. I sold it before i had the chance to buy the cooler. This is why getting the cooler on my fabia was a priority this time.
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you should try driving two tuned cars next to each other on the road, one with an uprated IC and one without. You'll see the difference then straight away and its pretty big.
....Sy, you are not helping at all! [Must not mod with an IC... Must not mod with an IC... Must not mod with an IC...]
I thought exactly the same as you do and found out that personally on my Octavia. I sold it before i had the chance to buy the cooler. This is why getting the cooler on my fabia was a priority this time.
Sy, which cooler did u go for? :rolleye:
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you should try driving two tuned cars next to each other on the road, one with an uprated IC and one without. You'll see the difference then straight away and its pretty big.
....Sy, you are not helping at all! [Must not mod with an IC... Must not mod with an IC... Must not mod with an IC...]
I thought exactly the same as you do and found out that personally on my Octavia. I sold it before i had the chance to buy the cooler. This is why getting the cooler on my fabia was a priority this time.
Sy, which cooler did u go for? :rolleye:
On what; the Fabia? Ive got a Pace Products on the Fabia. Octavia was stock.
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I run a airtec twin spec on my stage 2 revo ed30.
I got it 2nd hand (but brand new) fitted it myself and it defo feels better for it. Plus it helped me up my revo stage 2 settings therefore getting the best out of my map!
Not 100% needed but I would buy again
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I've just bought a Godspeed FMIC, it's a twintercooler copy and gets a good write up.
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I've just bought a Godspeed FMIC, it's a twintercooler copy and gets a good write up.
....Got a link you can post to more info such as a rave review?
Strange choice of brand name, "God speed" is normally what you might say to someone about to leave on a hazardous adventure wishing them God's help because they are likely to need it!
The Devil is the dude more associated with speed :evilgrin:
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http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88257
http://golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116018
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http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88257
http://golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116018
.....18 pages of very immature lads slagging off the product and each other (unfortunately typical of that forum across the pond) and then another 10 pages which didn't really reach a conclusion (that I could find). Any comparitive dyno plots were not accessible and don't appear to have been done back-to-back on the same day anyway.
So, I can't say that I can form a meaningful opinion about it. But, as many pointed out, I don't like folks ripping off other folks, which appears to be a distinct possibility.
But thanks for posting those links, 'martziniuk' :drinking: