MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: mo5in on December 24, 2012, 01:43:14 pm
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hi sorry sounds like a dumb question but should i start with just a stage 1 remap or jump straight to stage 2 is there much difference between them ?
btw ive got a ko3 gti thanks.
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Stage 1 first imo.
Most decent tuners will give you the Stage 2 program for very little extra, if you grabbed the S1 from them.
The difference from Stock to Stage 1 is greater than Stage 1 to Stage 2.
Stage 2 is probably borderline requiring a HPFP (High pressure fuel pump) upgrade too; although others can advise you on this.
I have Stage 1 with pre-cat delete on K03, here's my VCDS dyno, which is a reasonable indication of what a Stage 1 map looks like on KO3 GTI. Although most graphs are an estimation imo.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.voodish.co.uk%2Fmisc%2FGTI-TFSI-Stage1-with_Pre-cat-delete.jpg&hash=e37058d5979c5c93e38aa3e37358e1a41b9f7a7a)
I've logged more torque than that, but this was the highest recorded BHP.
TBH, don't worry about the numbers too much, it's how the car feels to you afterward that really matters. I'm quite happy with mine, it has a nice amount of power and torque as my daily driver; before I would look at bigger brakes and suspension mods.
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Please use the "Search" function! There's an entire board on this....
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/board,33.0.html
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Bah humbug :wink:
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Please use the "Search" function! There's an entire board on this....
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/board,33.0.html
This is still a very interesting topic for all of us, let alone a newbie! Re-posting questions like this allows new opinions, ideas and perspectives to come to light. It's going to be very dull if all we ever do is look back on a topic as important as this and only ever read what has been posted in history!
Shall we let the moderators do the forum policing?
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Stage 1 first imo.
Most decent tuners will give you the Stage 2 program for very little extra, if you grabbed the S1 from them.
The difference from Stock to Stage 1 is greater than Stage 1 to Stage 2.
Stage 2 is probably borderline requiring a HPFP (High pressure fuel pump) upgrade too; although others can advise you on this.
I have Stage 1 with pre-cat delete on K03, here's my VCDS dyno, which is a reasonable indication of what a Stage 1 map looks like on KO3 GTI. Although most graphs are an estimation imo.
TBH, don't worry about the numbers too much, it's how the car feels to you afterward that really matters. I'm quite happy with mine, it has a nice amount of power and torque as my daily driver; before I would look at bigger brakes and suspension mods.
....Agreed :happy2:
I'm running Stage 2 Revo after running Stage 1 for a while, on a K03 Mk5 GTI.
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Stick at stage 1 unless you are going stage2+! ;-)
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I Jumped straight to stage 2 with a little push never looked back and happy i skipped stage 1 would of judt meant more waiting around umming and arging so probably saved time and money. if you can go straight to 2 do it you wont regret not waiting around
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This is still a very interesting topic for all of us, let alone a newbie! Re-posting questions like this allows new opinions, ideas and perspectives to come to light. It's going to be very dull if all we ever do is look back on a topic as important as this and only ever read what has been posted in history!
Shall we let the moderators do the forum policing?
Fair point and yes your right.
OP, FWIW Stage 1 on K03 will be the biggest jump you'll make in power and after that the gains are less and the costs to achieve them are more.
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I Jumped straight to stage 2 with a little push never looked back and happy i skipped stage 1 would of judt meant more waiting around umming and arging so probably saved time and money. if you can go straight to 2 do it you wont regret not waiting around
I think it boils down to what you can afford. If you can't afford all the hardware that goes with Stage 2, but want an easy and relatively cheap power and torque hike now, then go for Stage 1. I've done it this way, and it's given me a chance to really get to know all the hardware options, and make well-informed choices regarding intake, exhaust, fuel-pump,suspension and brake mods pre-Stage 2.
If you know your stuff already and can afford Stage 2 and everything that involves now, go for it I say! As Nez points out, it's probably cheaper and it's certainly more time efficient. Either way, you're going to have a hugely noticeable increase from stock, and will be beaming from ear to ear! :driver:
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FRED_INK%2FGTIforum_sig_600px_zps6e90d673.jpg&hash=a736895dab2e2b2d4d7db62cd1d9f6691a5c213a)
There's another consideration which says it's wiser to go to Stage 1 first before possibly moving to Stage 2 later: A remap makes more demands and consequently can highlight any inefficiencies or even problems and so it's easier to diagnose issues by the process of elimination. The bonus is that you also experience what the differences are. Every car is slightly different and your individual mix of hardware performance mods can influence the result.
IMO, it's very important to go to a tuner with an established reputation on the 2.0T FSI platform - Not necessarily the big boys like Revo and APR, but not some unknown geezer with a laptop advertising on eBay.
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FRED_INK%2FGTIforum_sig_600px_zps6e90d673.jpg&hash=a736895dab2e2b2d4d7db62cd1d9f6691a5c213a)
There's another consideration which says it's wiser to go to Stage 1 first before possibly moving to Stage 2 later: A remap makes more demands and consequently can highlight any inefficiencies or even problems and so it's easier to diagnose issues by the process of elimination. The bonus is that you also experience what the differences are. Every car is slightly different and your individual mix of hardware performance mods can influence the result.
IMO, it's very important to go to a tuner with an established reputation on the 2.0T FSI platform - Not necessarily the big boys like Revo and APR, but not some unknown geezer with a laptop advertising on eBay.
2 more great reasons to go Stage 1 first.
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Stage 1 will put a smile on your face and leave the car pretty much oem in every other respect. Anything more will leave a dent in your pocket and an increase in noise. Be it from an induction kit or an exhaust. You will then possibly need to look at a clutch or uprated HPFP.
Handling mods like anti roll bar, suspension and brake upgrades at stage 1 will make it a very capable car.
Rob
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I went straight to stage 2 as already fitted a decat and twintake, it's awesome!
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My Story;
I went stage 1 made 289bhp(edition30). happy with it, but wanted a little more, so bought a Pipewerx 3" Downpipe with 200CEL sports cat and reducer pipe to oem catback and ITG panel filter... Clutch started slipping so bought/fitted a sachs 400lbft clutch and new dmf... was making 272bhp when rolling roaded, so had to get cat-back, apr pump and EVoms induction kit, made 309bhp, too much for the standard brakes, so added scirocco R front brakes, then was getting heatsoak so kept me at B8 on Revo stage 2, so had to get an intercooler s3 alloy one fitted and went stage 2+, which flies, but is too much for the engine mounts and suspension, so will be changing that in the new year...
So just take caution, the more you push one area of the car will highlight the next weakest link... feel I have been chasing my tail to get the car how I want it...
Want a quick car, go stage 1 and sort the suspension/brakes...
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My Story;
I went stage 1 made 289bhp(edition30). happy with it, but wanted a little more, so bought a Pipewerx 3" Downpipe with 200CEL sports cat and reducer pipe to oem catback and ITG panel filter... Clutch started slipping so bought/fitted a sachs 400lbft clutch and new dmf... was making 272bhp when rolling roaded, so had to get cat-back, apr pump and EVoms induction kit, made 309bhp, too much for the standard brakes, so added scirocco R front brakes, then was getting heatsoak so kept me at B8 on Revo stage 2, so had to get an intercooler s3 alloy one fitted and went stage 2+, which flies, but is too much for the engine mounts and suspension, so will be changing that in the new year...
So just take caution, the more you push one area of the car will highlight the next weakest link... feel I have been chasing my tail to get the car how I want it...
Want a quick car, go stage 1 and sort the suspension/brakes...
Quality post.
Probably less problematic on k03, as your only going to make stage 1 k04 numbers when maxing out the k03, but an extremely good post in tuning terms generally.
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My Story;
I went stage 1 made 289bhp(edition30). happy with it, but wanted a little more, so bought a Pipewerx 3" Downpipe with 200CEL sports cat and reducer pipe to oem catback and ITG panel filter... Clutch started slipping so bought/fitted a sachs 400lbft clutch and new dmf... was making 272bhp when rolling roaded, so had to get cat-back, apr pump and EVoms induction kit, made 309bhp, too much for the standard brakes, so added scirocco R front brakes, then was getting heatsoak so kept me at B8 on Revo stage 2, so had to get an intercooler s3 alloy one fitted and went stage 2+, which flies, but is too much for the engine mounts and suspension, so will be changing that in the new year...
So just take caution, the more you push one area of the car will highlight the next weakest link... feel I have been chasing my tail to get the car how I want it...
Want a quick car, go stage 1 and sort the suspension/brakes...
Thank you! What a brilliant post. This re-inforces my decision to fit the NQSBBK, ARB's and the Bilstein B12 Pro kit as my next mods.
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Want a quick car, go stage 1 and sort the suspension/brakes...
Exactly as I have done on the Czech Machine. Engine mods are limited to just a Stage 1 map and the rest is brakes, coilovers, S3 hubs and arms. No fannying around and I wont go stage 2 on the IHI as I don't think it needs it. K04 maybe except that changes the whole profile of engine to a supercar chaser.
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Thanks for all the great replys . My heart is saying go stage 2 but my head is all over the place lol .
I've got a Milltek cat back and a neuspeed p flo so just need a decat really for stage 2 I think .? If I buy a decat and still go stage 1 will the car run ok .? Or do you definitely need stage 2 with a decat .?
Handling mods I need to get around to doing as just had 4 new tyres put on wich put a little dent in the pocket but all is good cant wait for 2013. Btw Merry Christmas everyone.
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Thanks for all the great replys . My heart is saying go stage 2 but my head is all over the place lol .
I've got a Milltek cat back and a neuspeed p flo so just need a decat really for stage 2 I think .? If I buy a decat and still go stage 1 will the car run ok .? Or do you definitely need stage 2 with a decat .?
Handling mods I need to get around to doing as just had 4 new tyres put on wich put a little dent in the pocket but all is good cant wait for 2013. Btw Merry Christmas everyone.
I think stage 1 with a decat will throw a CEL warning; stage 2 tune sorts that out. Could be wrong.
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As above stage 2 maps out the second lambda
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Had the same stage 1 vs stage 2 dilemma with my car, then a 3" DP came up secondhand (not many available currently for MK6) which made my mind up and very pleased with the outcome.
Will agree with the other comments regarding modifying one thing which then highlights the next weakness in the chain and I am already thinking brakes and chassis mods to compliment the additional power on my car.
That said this is the fun of modding and as long as you go in with your eyes open you'll make the right choice and enjoy the process (most of the time :laugh: )
Good luck :happy2:
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Even I went to stage 1 first before moving on to stage 2+ ( Golf R ). As RR says, it is always wise to go for a basic map first and choose your tuner wisely ( based on reputation and forum advice). With a stage 1 map I would definitely advise upgrading the brakes even if it is just better discs and pads as they aren't up to the task IMHO. Upgraded suspension is a good idea, but again choose wisely and it is better to spend a little more on suspension than scrimp on it and have to pay out again shortly after.
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I have never needed to upgrade my brake pads as I dont do track driving and dont brake last minute. I am an advanced driver with a stage 2+ K03 and have never had an issue stopping on the road at any speed.
I was stage 1 for about 18 months and went straight to stage 2+. I am on oe brakes and dampers with eibach lowering springs. The rest of the car is standard. The car still feels planted on the road plus I have saved myself a lot of money. I am not a big believer in doing x y and z to a car for the road. To push my car as it is beyond its limits you would have to do insane speeds and on a road you cant do that. On a track is a different matter altogether as its a different style of driving. One of the best mods is driver tuition.
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. One of the best mods is driver tuition.
:congrats:
If not the best mod.
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I have never needed to upgrade my brake pads as I dont do track driving and dont brake last minute. I am an advanced driver with a stage 2+ K03 and have never had an issue stopping on the road at any speed.
I was stage 1 for about 18 months and went straight to stage 2+. I am on oe brakes and dampers with eibach lowering springs. The rest of the car is standard. The car still feels planted on the road plus I have saved myself a lot of money. I am not a big believer in doing x y and z to a car for the road. To push my car as it is beyond its limits you would have to do insane speeds and on a road you cant do that. On a track is a different matter altogether as its a different style of driving. One of the best mods is driver tuition.
....I agree with you 100% about driver tuition and have done courses with Drivetrain (ex Police instructor) and CarLimits - Remap your brain, folks! :happy2:
However, when there's no traffic about I do love a spirited drive where braking late and hard is great fun. Also, driving hard in the twisties and fast bends is where all the handling mods and Quaife diff come into play nicely.
You don't have to be doing insane speeds to get more from the Mk5 GTI's handling. But of course it's ETTO.
The OEM GTI has brakes and handling which are only designed to meet its stock performance. Once you up the power it's sensible to balance the car with braking and handling mods IMO. And quite apart from that, I'd rather have very strong brakes and not need them than need them and not have them when someone else does something unexpected. I reckon that in the 7 years I have had my car, the AP Racing brakes have saved me several times from other road users doing something stupid.
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I have never needed to upgrade my brake pads as I dont do track driving and dont brake last minute. I am an advanced driver with a stage 2+ K03 and have never had an issue stopping on the road at any speed.
I was stage 1 for about 18 months and went straight to stage 2+. I am on oe brakes and dampers with eibach lowering springs. The rest of the car is standard. The car still feels planted on the road plus I have saved myself a lot of money. I am not a big believer in doing x y and z to a car for the road. To push my car as it is beyond its limits you would have to do insane speeds and on a road you cant do that. On a track is a different matter altogether as its a different style of driving. One of the best mods is driver tuition.
You aren't trying hard enough! :driver: :signLOL:
Seriously though, It depends on how you drive and what limit of performance you use. I have always felt that the OEM brakes on a GTI have been lacking and any upgrade is always beneficial.
Driver tuition is also always a good idea. :smiley:
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Have made the decision hopefully only stage 1 for now. Have found a place close by to me who do custom remaps on the rolling road at a very good price.
http://www.masperformance.co.uk/about/
Anyone heard or used them ?
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Im considering a re map on my gti ko3, I will more than likely go for the stage 1 as im not after crazy power. As far as im aware it shouldn't effect the MPG too much when pottering around is this the case? Same question with stage 2 although i expect that to guzzle a lot more. Also what mods would you actually need for stage 2? I would have intake, exhaust, DV and probably an intercooler if it was needed, thanks.
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Im considering a re map on my gti ko3, I will more than likely go for the stage 1 as im not after crazy power. As far as im aware it shouldn't effect the MPG too much when pottering around is this the case? Same question with stage 2 although i expect that to guzzle a lot more. Also what mods would you actually need for stage 2? I would have intake, exhaust, DV and probably an intercooler if it was needed, thanks.
....Firstly, A Warm Welcome to the forum (we are very good at spending your money on mods for your car!). :happy2:
MPG won't be adversely effected except when you use the throttle and you are bound to use the throttle more when you first have the remap because you want to and need to explore your car's new found power and learn how best to safely drive it. Stage 2 is the same - It doesn't automatically effect your MPG.
Intake, exhaust, brakes and handling mods are in my opinion needed for Stage 2. You don't need an aftermarket (or Audi S3) intercooler unless you do lots of trackdays or go to Stage 2+. But personally I think it's wiser to stay at Stage 2 on a K03.
Introduce yourself and post pics of your car in the New Members Intro section :happy2:
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Im considering a re map on my gti ko3, I will more than likely go for the stage 1 as im not after crazy power. As far as im aware it shouldn't effect the MPG too much when pottering around is this the case? Same question with stage 2 although i expect that to guzzle a lot more. Also what mods would you actually need for stage 2? I would have intake, exhaust, DV and probably an intercooler if it was needed, thanks.
....Firstly, A Warm Welcome to the forum (we are very good at spending your money on mods for your car!). :happy2:
MPG won't be adversely effected except when you use the throttle and you are bound to use the throttle more when you first have the remap because you want to and need to explore your car's new found power and learn how best to safely drive it. Stage 2 is the same - It doesn't automatically effect your MPG.
Intake, exhaust, brakes and handling mods are in my opinion needed for Stage 2. You don't need an aftermarket (or Audi S3) intercooler unless you do lots of trackdays or go to Stage 2+. But personally I think it's wiser to stay at Stage 2 on a K03.
Introduce yourself and post pics of your car in the New Members Intro section :happy2:
Great advice bud thanks, i will introduce myself shortly, waiting for a bit of slightly decent weather so i can take some pics of the GTI :) no body likes a thread with no pics. Cant wait to have my money spent for me :happy2:
I want decent power but i dont want to start causing issues with other things breaking, but on the flipside i will want more boost in the future.
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I want decent power but i dont want to start causing issues with other things breaking, but on the flipside i will want more boost in the future.
....If you've been lurking before registering on this forum you'll already know that the quality of advice and help is top notch. Fortunately, German cars tend to be strongly built and there is headroom tolerance for modding. Personally, I plan to keep my GTI and am satisfied with the power and handling balance I have achieved over the last 7 years and 104,000 miles. There's always going to be a faster car than yours or mine and as long as you are having fun but safe and reliable journeys that's all that matters in my opinion.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FDetailing%2FStickers%2FRR_TshirtGolfMod.jpg&hash=ba157c036fa9e56ae499e22c0aea3704400fe3e2)
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I want decent power but i dont want to start causing issues with other things breaking, but on the flipside i will want more boost in the future.
....If you've been lurking before registering on this forum you'll already know that the quality of advice and help is top notch. Fortunately, German cars tend to be strongly built and there is headroom tolerance for modding. Personally, I plan to keep my GTI and am satisfied with the power and handling balance I have achieved over the last 7 years and 104,000 miles. There's always going to be a faster car than yours or mine and as long as you are having fun but safe and reliable journeys that's all that matters in my opinion.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FDetailing%2FStickers%2FRR_TshirtGolfMod.jpg&hash=ba157c036fa9e56ae499e22c0aea3704400fe3e2)
Yeah ive been stalking the forum for a while as have been on the search for a gti for sometime, was waiting for the right one to come along, and close to home, not alot down here. Im not trying to beat any speed records just want something with plenty of go and a nice sound.
Seems to be some superb advice about, and too much money seems to be a common factor also :)
Cheers for your advice :drinking:
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Stick at stage 1 unless you are going stage2+! ;-)
agreed, and dont go to stage 2+ if you think you might sell the car on soonish mot worth the hassle of putting all the parts back on etc
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K03 stage 2+ is pointless. Why not just stick on a K04 turbo on with a custom remap and have the equivalent of a stage 1 Ed30 for a 1/3 of the price running less boost less heat and more power.
Alternately, stage 1+ seems to give very very good results, and all that needs is a HPFP. That will give you the same figures as a stage 2 car but again, at less cost.
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On hindsight I prob would go stage 1 K04 than stage 2+. However I havent bothered with the intake part and the car is still spritely. However a car change is looming so I will prob be going to Stage 0 :laugh: