MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: C4MKV on December 24, 2012, 04:34:24 pm

Title: High torque GTI
Post by: C4MKV on December 24, 2012, 04:34:24 pm
I had an APR remap last week done at Awesome GTI, stage 2 with Milltek Turbo Back and ITG Maxogen CAI. Just been back today for a run on the dyno and a bit shocked at the results!

BHP was 253 which is about what I was expecting seeing as the car has done 80k miles, but the torque was 420lb! I've looked into what other mk5 GTI's are pulling on the dyno after remaps and the most I've seen is about 300, so this looks way off the chart. They did two runs, one 419 and other at 420. Can this be right?!
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: rich83 on December 24, 2012, 04:37:20 pm
Awesome GTIs rolling road gives crazy torque figures.... I would have thought that they would have sorted that out by now.
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: bacillus on December 24, 2012, 04:39:03 pm
Awesome GTIs rolling road gives crazy torque figures.... I would have thought that they would have sorted that out by now.

+1
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: zerolag on December 24, 2012, 04:53:37 pm
That's daft.
It's an easy 100lb/ft out.  The BHP is probably about right.

How are these rolling road figs calculated?

Have you tried using VCDS just for kicks?
MAF g/s and Engine RPM calculate HP and Torque, as long as the boost pressure requested meets boost pressure actual, the VCDS results can't be far from the flywheel truth :)  Along with a nice N75 reading.

My Stage1 precat delete, makes ~240bhp and ~280lb/ft in VCDS. VCDS Graph (http://www.voodish.co.uk/misc/GTI-TFSI-Stage1-with_Pre-cat-delete.jpg)
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: AndrewJB on December 24, 2012, 06:21:54 pm
my old TDI made 430lb.ft one Awesome's rollers where as one 3 other sets of rollers it made 360-370lb.ft
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: Hedge on December 24, 2012, 06:23:26 pm
Sounds like NM rather than lbft.  :signLOL:
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: rich83 on December 24, 2012, 06:24:12 pm
Sounds like NM rather than lbft.  :signLOL:

... you mean nNM ??
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: AndrewJB on December 24, 2012, 06:29:21 pm
420 nm would be 309lb.ft so likely
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: zerolag on December 24, 2012, 06:32:20 pm
Sounds like NM rather than lbft.  :signLOL:

Bang on the money!  Of course he's right. ^^
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: bacillus on December 24, 2012, 08:35:48 pm
Unfortunately Awesome's Dynojet dyno measures torque in ft lb not Nm...   
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on December 24, 2012, 09:54:55 pm
If you had 400lb ft of torque your clutch would have been slipping all the way home  :grin:

270-315 lbft is the very most you can get out of a K03  :happy2:
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: Hedge on December 24, 2012, 10:28:03 pm
270-315 lbft is the very most you can get out of a K03  :happy2:

I've seen 350lbft at JKM from a K03.  :happy2:
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: zerolag on December 24, 2012, 11:03:58 pm
270-315 lbft is the very most you can get out of a K03  :happy2:

I've seen 350lbft at JKM from a K03.  :happy2:

weird science (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090305/)
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: gazon69 on December 25, 2012, 09:10:21 am
If you had 400lb ft of torque your clutch would have been slipping all the way home  :grin:

270-315 lbft is the very most you can get out of a K03  :happy2:
if he had that much torque it wouldn't have even got it out of the fitting bay  :grin:
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: berg on December 25, 2012, 07:54:06 pm
mine came up with more torque than a lamborghini aventador on the awesome dyno = dont use their dyno as it clearly is fooked, ie 400lb ft is not possible out of a ko4 on 2+, might be if running water meth?
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on December 25, 2012, 08:11:59 pm
mine came up with more torque than a lamborghini aventador on the awesome dyno = dont use their dyno as it clearly is fooked, ie 400lb ft is not possible out of a ko4 on 2+, might be if running water meth?

James got 450lb ft on JKM's - that was K04 mapped to WMI
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: cheungy on December 25, 2012, 09:13:17 pm
mine came up with more torque than a lamborghini aventador on the awesome dyno = dont use their dyno as it clearly is fooked, ie 400lb ft is not possible out of a ko4 on 2+, might be if running water meth?

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/v/566275_10151377838529853_580290368_n.jpg?oh=13320b94cc91e6a23ad999b27d6551dd&oe=50DBA114&__gda__=1356652478_aaeea14b1e4a8e20228137650583a2db)
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: RedRobin on December 25, 2012, 09:23:32 pm

270-315 lbft is the very most you can get out of a K03  :happy2:


K03 Stage 2 (Revo)................

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2Ffile-10.jpg&hash=028a4ce4366bf012659d2e84a65db1c235d4fc67)
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: Shabba168 on December 25, 2012, 09:42:21 pm
Revo stage 1 on JKM rollers 320lb-ft

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ff204%2FShabba168%2F6913635794f3d926bc87fd0e55ccaf92.jpg&hash=cc8a351b102cad25478adfbd9473e7d8a3c1b5bf)
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on December 25, 2012, 09:45:19 pm

270-315 lbft is the very most you can get out of a K03  :happy2:


K03 Stage 2 (Revo)................

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2Ffile-10.jpg&hash=028a4ce4366bf012659d2e84a65db1c235d4fc67)

I'd better change my post Robin  :grin:
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: RedRobin on December 25, 2012, 09:56:24 pm

270-315 lbft is the very most you can get out of a K03  :happy2:


I'd better change my post Robin  :grin:


....Why? - I'm plotting < ~320 ftlb on Stage 2 and Shabba is < ~320 ftlb on Stage 1 (my B/F/T settings are turned down and his are probably turned up).
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: zerolag on December 25, 2012, 10:11:10 pm
265 from a stage1 on k03!?  what sort of boost is the K03 running to get that... Wow, I bet the EGT's are well high, ouch.
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on December 25, 2012, 10:18:35 pm

270-315 lbft is the very most you can get out of a K03  :happy2:


I'd better change my post Robin  :grin:




....Why? - I'm plotting < ~320 ftlb on Stage 2 and Shabba is < ~320 ftlb on Stage 1 (my B/F/T settings are turned down and his are probably turned up).

Oops I misread the scale  :laugh:
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: PDT on December 26, 2012, 11:08:42 am
I have used dynojet dynos before and got high torque figures, it's caused by the incorrect RPM calibration. It also means mid range BHP is way out of scale.
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: RedRobin on December 26, 2012, 12:27:13 pm

I have used dynojet dynos before and got high torque figures, it's caused by the incorrect RPM calibration. It also means mid range BHP is way out of scale.


....Am I right in thinking that it's down to the dyno operator to correctly calibrate the RPM?
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: Shabba168 on December 26, 2012, 12:47:31 pm
That was before I fitted down pipe so was still running precat when it was on the rollers.
I was running B7 F9 T6

Haven't had it on rollers with new settings and hardware
Now B9 F9 T5
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: RedRobin on December 26, 2012, 12:59:59 pm

That was before I fitted down pipe so was still running precat when it was on the rollers.

I was running B7 F9 T6


....At JKM I was, and still am, running B7 F7 T5
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: Hedge on December 26, 2012, 01:26:25 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjkm.org.uk%2Fperformance%2FMisc%2FGallery%2Frollingroaddays%2FBRISKODA%252002%252002%252008%2FGraphs-No-Details%2FOCT23VRS.gif&hash=4c8d2efe63fb8baf705bdafd753492efb04372d8)

 :smiley:
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: RedRobin on December 26, 2012, 03:41:00 pm
^^^^
Whose VRS is that then, Hedge? I see it was back in 2008, so I guess it might have been 'muckipup' Dave.
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: PDT on December 26, 2012, 05:00:09 pm

I have used dynojet dynos before and got high torque figures, it's caused by the incorrect RPM calibration. It also means mid range BHP is way out of scale.


....Am I right in thinking that it's down to the dyno operator to correctly calibrate the RPM?

It's different on different dynos, some use an inductive pickup, others use OBD data, some require the operator to input the RPM tachometer details.

If its out by just a few MPH per RPM it can massively under/over read.
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: Shabba168 on December 26, 2012, 06:17:48 pm
265 from a stage1 on k03!?  what sort of boost is the K03 running to get that... Wow, I bet the EGT's are well high, ouch.

At the time I was running forge DV, cat back milltek, K&N induction kit and a forge twintercooler and prototype replacement intercooler. Can't remember what my EGT peek at
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: C4MKV on December 26, 2012, 07:38:40 pm
Can anyone recommend a dyno in the York or Leeds area thats nice and reliable?
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: C4MKV on December 30, 2012, 02:14:30 pm
bump :happy2:
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: martziniuk on December 30, 2012, 04:35:36 pm
RS tuning, Leeds have a Dyno Dynamics RR.
Title: Re: High torque GTI
Post by: C4MKV on December 30, 2012, 05:13:22 pm
great, many thanks!