MK5 Golf GTI
General => Random Chat => Topic started by: bigmig95 on January 18, 2013, 08:54:50 am
-
Anyone come across a link yet to part 1 ?
-
.
I haven't looked yet - I think I'll rely on what gets posted here.
I have to say that I am a bit confused about whether he is guilty or innocent, due to the understanding that he has never failed a drugs test?
I do think that too many people are judging him as guilty who are outside the sport and in reality don't have any justifiable evidence. The words "witch hunt" and "making an example" come to mind. I'm still keeping an open mind.
According to one BBC report, Oprah is "surprised" by some of his answers to her 112 pre-prepared questions. His lawyers were in a nearby room and he will have been extensively briefed by them. If guilty in truth I hardly think he's going to confess - It would be suicide and he's clearly not that stupid.
-
Here we go...........
Oprah: Did you ever take banned substances to enhance your cycling performance?
Lance Armstrong: Yes
Oprah: Was one of those banned substances EPO?
Lance Armstrong: Yes
Oprah: Did you ever blood dope, or use blood transfusions to enhance your cycling performance?
Lance Armstrong: Yes
Oprah: Did you ever used other banned substances like cortisones, testosterone, or human growth hormone?
Lance Armstrong: Yes
Oprah: In all seven of your Tour de France victories, did you ever take banned substances or blood dope?
Lance Armstrong: Yes
-
Thanks Robin, I'll keep my eyes peeled for the full version. You don't get much clearer answers than that.
As an athelete I have the utmost respect for him even with his banned substance use. As a person my respect for him has all but disappeared.
I did find it amusing the story of taking the bronze TT trophy off him from 2000. Just look at the gold medal, Viatcheslav Ekimov one of Lance's right hand men in his USPS team at that time. Clean ? I doubt it.
Silver medal, Jan Ulrich, clean ? definitely not he's admitted doping as well.
No mention of this on the news though, it was all about Lance.
Back to the old argument of it being an even playing field. The cleanest rider during the tour could well be over an hour down on the GC when all the top riders were on the gear. If everyone was clean would it make an hours worth of difference over a three week tour ? Unlikely ?
-
I have to say that I am a bit confused about whether he is guilty or innocent, due to the understanding that he has never failed a drugs test?
Technology for drug detection improves over the years.
In Lance's case there was no reliable test for detecting EPO doping until a few years ago hence drug testing in the past missed it.
It's a bit like the Olympics athletes now are having their blood samples stored for 8 years then retested to see if anything was missed the first time around.
-
I did find it amusing the story of taking the bronze TT trophy off him from 2000. Just look at the gold medal, Viatcheslav Ekimov one of Lance's right hand men in his USPS team at that time. Clean ? I doubt it.
Silver medal, Jan Ulrich, clean ? definitely not he's admitted doping as well.
No mention of this on the news though, it was all about Lance.
Back to the old argument of it being an even playing field. The cleanest rider during the tour could well be over an hour down on the GC when all the top riders were on the gear. If everyone was clean would it make an hours worth of difference over a three week tour ? Unlikely ?
....If so many other cyclists were NOT clean at that time, it becomes logical to say that Lance Armstrong still beat his serious rivals to make it on the podium. In other words, they were competing on the same level playing field. However, I know this concept is flawed because it shut out all the genuinely clean riders, but would any of them have won if every rider was in truth clean? - I doubt it very much.
-
Also to level the playing field each rider would need to be on the same set of drugs.
-
Also to level the playing field each rider would need to be on the same set of drugs.
....That's right. And that's also where everything gets really complicated because of factoring in how every individual rider's physiology reacts/responds differently to the same substances, even when legal.
It then comes down to how individuals respond to substances which happen to be termed as legal.
As ex racing cyclists (amateurs), both you and I, Hedge, drank energy and body salt drinks such as Gatorade - But did we really know what was in that powder? - Obviously nothing exciting because I never won any races (unless you count handicaps).
However, as usual I am going off slightly at a tangent and going as far as blood transfusions is clearly cheating.
-
Didnt he sue a loadof people back along for accusing him of doping? If so he is gonna be in a BIG sh*tstorm
-
Francesco Moser set the precedent for the blood doping after he set the world hour record in Mexico using the same methods. It probably goes back further than that but that's the earliest I can remember.
-
Francesco Moser set the precedent for the blood doping after he set the world hour record in Mexico using the same methods. It probably goes back further than that but that's the earliest I can remember.
I'm sure there has been a lot of ex top pros slipping back into the shadows with all this.
No one has mentioned Bradley Wiggins abuse of hair straighteners. I've spoken to one of his ex team mates and they were an essential part of of his pre race preparation
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fjj45%2Fgodsy1969%2FBradstraighteners_zps53d612e7.jpg&hash=904713533bfa11032c1a09aae8bfff9e747e25fb)
-
Moser was completely open about it as I remember reading about it at the time. As the UCI had no understanding of it they were stuffed.
-
Surprised he came out with it after years of denying it. I wonder what happened to make him switch? Think they mentioned on the BBC News that he may want to take part again in the future.
Agree that it can be difficult if everyone else is doing the same kind of stuff.
Can someone please remind me - when was blood doping started in the cycling world and when did it become illegal?
-
It started early eighties I believe. I think EPO is just a chemical means to produce more red blood cells.
-
Francesco Moser set the precedent for the blood doping after he set the world hour record in Mexico using the same methods. It probably goes back further than that but that's the earliest I can remember.
I'm sure there has been a lot of ex top pros slipping back into the shadows with all this.
No one has mentioned Bradley Wiggins abuse of hair straighteners. I've spoken to one of his ex team mates and they were an essential part of of his pre race preparation
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fjj45%2Fgodsy1969%2FBradstraighteners_zps53d612e7.jpg&hash=904713533bfa11032c1a09aae8bfff9e747e25fb)
Best replying this thread! Haha
I was just did discussing the gb cycling team and there recent good fortune... Wonder if they will be a lil look into that?!
You can't just throw alot of gear at someone and become a 7 time world champ! I know And have trained with ex fb weightlifters and know a few strongmen that are currently competing at a world level... It's not as easy as an injection here and there!
-
Francesco Moser set the precedent for the blood doping after he set the world hour record in Mexico using the same methods. It probably goes back further than that but that's the earliest I can remember.
I'm sure there has been a lot of ex top pros slipping back into the shadows with all this.
No one has mentioned Bradley Wiggins abuse of hair straighteners. I've spoken to one of his ex team mates and they were an essential part of of his pre race preparation
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fjj45%2Fgodsy1969%2FBradstraighteners_zps53d612e7.jpg&hash=904713533bfa11032c1a09aae8bfff9e747e25fb)
Best replying this thread! Haha
I was just did discussing the gb cycling team and there recent good fortune... Wonder if they will be a lil look into that?!
You can't just throw alot of gear at someone and become a 7 time world champ! I know And have trained with ex fb weightlifters and know a few strongmen that are currently competing at a world level... It's not as easy as an injection here and there!
I think the GB team has a very positive stance on drug use hence the sacking of riders both current and ex who have admitted to using banned stuff.
I remember seeing GB coach Shane Sutton on the Isle of Man cycling week in the 90's with a bottle of beer and a fag on the go the night before a big race. (Might have been for show). Next day he road the big international road race and won riding away on his own dropping some quality pros. Triple hard bike rider in his day.
-
Some say that's why Sean Yates has left Team Sky as he tested positive during his career.
-
Some say that's why Sean Yates has left Team Sky as he tested positive during his career.
....Sean Yates was one heck of a good rider in his day.
-
Some say that's why Sean Yates has left Team Sky as he tested positive during his career.
....Sean Yates was one heck of a good rider in his day.
EPO or no EPO he was as hard as they come. Drag the bunch along at 40mph in all weathers. Tough barstewards.
Johann Museeuw is another one who's admitted use and so hard he could make Chuck Norris look a pussy.
-
Incidentally Hedge and Robin. Did you ride for local clubs in your day ? and if you don't mind me asking which clubs.
-
I agree Sean Yates was a hard barstewards. I seem to remember him breaking the frame on his prologue bike in the Tour.
Incidentally Hedge and Robin. Did you ride for local clubs in your day ? and if you don't mind me asking which clubs.
I first rode for Farnborough and Camberley as my Dad used to ride with them many years ago and still knew some of the people then a group of us left and started up another club called VC Meudon.
Incidentally Nicole Cooke thanked one of my old mentors Ron Dowling in her retirement speech earlier this week.
-
Part 1 is on Discovery this evening at 8.00.
-
Damn I don't wanna watch it... I don't want the sport to be put into too much negative light because of the drug culture Armstrong help to build; they were talking about pulling cycling from the Olympics!! :surprised:
-
Part 1 is on Discovery this evening at 8.00.
Right that's my viewing sorted for the evening.
I rode for the Coventry RC for about 12 years then the father in laws bike shop, Mike Vaughan cycles in Kenilworth. Used to race with my better halves brother and met the Mrs at a cross race.
Watched Nicole Cooke demolish the boys races when she was a kid. None of the young lads could beat her :grin:
-
Part 1 is on Discovery this evening at 8.00.
Right that's my viewing sorted for the evening.
I rode for the Coventry RC for about 12 years then the father in laws bike shop, Mike Vaughan cycles in Kenilworth. Used to race with my better halves brother and met the Mrs at a cross race.
Watched Nicole Cooke demolish the boys races when she was a kid. None of the young lads could beat her :grin:
Didn't realise you were a local lad, I've been to Mike Vaughans bike shop a few times...the last time wasn't the best of visits!
-
Part 1 is on Discovery this evening at 8.00.
Right that's my viewing sorted for the evening.
I rode for the Coventry RC for about 12 years then the father in laws bike shop, Mike Vaughan cycles in Kenilworth. Used to race with my better halves brother and met the Mrs at a cross race.
Watched Nicole Cooke demolish the boys races when she was a kid. None of the young lads could beat her :grin:
Didn't realise you were a local lad, I've been to Mike Vaughans bike shop a few times...the last time wasn't the best of visits!
Oh Dear. Hope the experience wasn't too bad ?
Just live 5 mins away from shop. where you based ?
-
I'm in Stratford, I use the cycle studio in town now, everybody is entitled to a bad day!! :happy2:
-
Damn I don't wanna watch it... I don't want the sport to be put into too much negative light because of the drug culture Armstrong help to build; they were talking about pulling cycling from the Olympics!! :surprised:
I don't think he helped to build it he just took part. It was already there.
-
armstrong is a lost sheep
-
Damn I don't wanna watch it... I don't want the sport to be put into too much negative light because of the drug culture Armstrong help to build; they were talking about pulling cycling from the Olympics!! :surprised:
I don't think he helped to build it he just took part. It was already there.
He's a self confessed bully of others to do the same :(
-
Part 2 is tomorrow at 02.00am but the listings don't show it. :sad1:
-
Incidentally Hedge and Robin. Did you ride for local clubs in your day ? and if you don't mind me asking which clubs.
....Yes, I rode for Festival RC (and also redesigned their 'strip' - Race Jerseys etc). I was a Time Triallist.
Apparently Hedge and my clubs raced each other in some events.
Festival Road Club is based in Kingston (on Thames, not Jamaica!) and so training was riding a chain gang mostly anywhere down as far as Brighton (and back!).
I may have some photos of myself somewhere :scared:
I am convinced that miles and miles of fast road cycling helped develop whatever road sense and awareness I bring to driving.
-
Incidentally Hedge and Robin. Did you ride for local clubs in your day ? and if you don't mind me asking which clubs.
....Yes, I rode for Festival RC (and also redesigned their 'strip' - Race Jerseys etc). I was a Time Triallist.
Apparently Hedge and my clubs raced each other in some events.
Festival Road Club is based in Kingston (on Thames, not Jamaica!) and so training was riding a chain gang mostly anywhere down as far as Brighton (and back!).
I may have some photos of myself somewhere :scared:
I am convinced that miles and miles of fast road cycling helped develop whatever road sense and awareness I bring to driving.
I rode the Tour of Surrey in '97 (I think), a good few Festival lads riding that year IIRC. Good event. :happy2:
As for Lance, compelling viewing IMO. Looking forward to part 2
-
With all the current revelations, I'm begining to doubt if Lance Armstrong ever actually set foot on the moon :confused:
-
Thanks Robin, I'll keep my eyes peeled for the full version. You don't get much clearer answers than that.
As an athelete I have the utmost respect for him even with his banned substance use. As a person my respect for him has all but disappeared.
I did find it amusing the story of taking the bronze TT trophy off him from 2000. Just look at the gold medal, Viatcheslav Ekimov one of Lance's right hand men in his USPS team at that time. Clean ? I doubt it.
Silver medal, Jan Ulrich, clean ? definitely not he's admitted doping as well.
No mention of this on the news though, it was all about Lance.
Back to the old argument of it being an even playing field. The cleanest rider during the tour could well be over an hour down on the GC when all the top riders were on the gear. If everyone was clean would it make an hours worth of difference over a three week tour ? Unlikely ?
Would it make a difference of an hour over a 3 week tour? Of course it would.
I have mades who use steroids for bodybuilding an the difference that stuff makes is just mind blowing. When they are on gear, I cannot keep up with them in the gym at all. They can train alot harder,longer, faster, with less rest time inbetween. Their endurance levels whilst on it is crazy. They do turn a but emotional at times.
-
With all the current revelations, I'm begining to doubt if Lance Armstrong ever actually set foot on the moon :confused:
:signLOL: :signLOL: :signLOL: - Briliant!
-
Monte. :rolleye:
Part 2 is on tonight at 8.00pm for those of you that missed it at 2.00am. :happy2:
-
http://www.vibe.com/article/lance-armstrong-biopic-picked-jj-abrams