Post by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on January 24, 2013, 11:24:11 pm
Moving on from the NQSBBK front kit which I think its fair to say is by no means perfect but ticks many boxes for those who are running it.
An affordable rear kit is available with the S3/R32 kit but Im not sure how valid that 310mm kit is when running 312mm fronts.....
So doing what i do which is perving over ETKA making stuff fit other stuff, it became obvious that we can make Caddy 2k rear calipers fit the standard 286mm GTI discs simply by swapping them out, the handbrake arm and cable holder all need replacing on the back of them with those already fitted to the standard caliper but thats only a 13mm nut a 30Tx screw and a two prong puller. The calipers are not painted so will need some paint prior to fitting.
So lets be clear....this is doable at home, some might want to send them to jonny@brakecaliperrefurbs.co.uk for some TLC and he is carrying stock at the mo
************ AGAIN IVE NO FINANCIAL INVOLVEMENT WITH JONNY **************
Why do it.......
The 286mm Kit is a solid disc and unvented and therefore weighs a lot less than the 310mm discs which are around 7.9kg per corner, the caddy caliper has a 41mm piston which is the same size as S3/R32 and TTRS.
So a S3 pedal with only a 12mm reduction in effective radius which is a trade off for about 7kg of unsprung weight and an OEM look, it complements the NQS front kit as its little money and can offer a tangible increase in stability.
Ive sort of had to comment on the TT Forum about why we did the 335mm 4 piston rear kit on the TTRS, theres no doubt that for racing tiny rear brakes are the way to go as it promotes trail brake oversteer for pro drivers to exploit
For us mere mortals with little talent, no roll cage or helmet, suit and gloves or hans device and traffic coming the other way then Id rather have it planted thanks very much.
So keep an eye out for these calipers on ebay or your local breakers and blast em up and paint them and your stock carriers the same colour and Bobs your mothers brother and report your findings on here......
somebody with them fitted already will eventually comment on here.....any guesses as to who it is?
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fw69%2Fdave_brown1970%2FE44203CB-24FB-4D9B-B1CE-47CD8ADC612C-1550-0000010CA78A4EBD.jpg&hash=075cd15ba439e82b72c22679850a3063399f5374)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fw69%2Fdave_brown1970%2F554121B5-F6E3-4CDE-902F-06540B4F738C-1550-0000010CAE768B6B.jpg&hash=6d5dee306659f314ab646880886f888d9b592b10)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fw69%2Fdave_brown1970%2FB476A94A-F031-42A7-BE76-E9DD06D4E6B2-1550-0000010CB480C0DF.jpg&hash=5c890025cfbb1364305903a405116ae7efea5d77)
Post by: rich83 on January 24, 2013, 11:53:36 pm
Post by: jimk04 on January 25, 2013, 07:00:14 am
Post by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on January 25, 2013, 08:55:22 am
I wouldn't buy new Calipers that's going to be expensive, they normally go for about £100 per pair on the bay, that said they'll probably start fetching more.
One thing that Jonny has had some success with is with swapping the smaller GTI Caliper onto Caddys, he's got a caddy and is on the caddy forums.
The caddy sharpens up a bit with the smaller rears and let's face it you won't find a caddy keeping up with a GTI on a B road.
GTI rears are a bolt on upgrade for caddy owners once you've put the handbrake bracketry on taking the caddy from 232mm to 286mm which is important when you're riding on 20s with a mattress and a 3ft square sub in the back
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on January 25, 2013, 09:08:55 am
I guess the Rotors will be cheaper than the S3 ones too?
How would you say this compares to the S3 setup when mated with the Aston 4pot/ 362mm ,Dave? :happy2:
Post by: Jaywoo-GTI on January 25, 2013, 09:27:46 am
Post by: daz_pd on January 25, 2013, 07:25:22 pm
Post by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on January 25, 2013, 07:51:12 pm
There's some caddy Calipers on the bay just popped up
Volkswagen Caddy Mk3 Typ 2K (2004->) Rear Brake Caliper N/S (http://Volkswagen Caddy Mk3 Typ 2K (2004->) Rear Brake Caliper N/S)
I've had a couple of sets of these guys and they normally let them go for about £45 each if you ring up
There's a set of Mk5 GTI rears on there for £150
Its mounting up of course especially if the plan is to send them for paint.. That said if you wanted to paint them yourselves its not that bad.....let me explain.
The caddy Calipers are not painted and you could strictly speaking have them bead blasted entire and then paint them having removed the handbrake gubbins to do a good job.
The golf mk5 rear carriers could be dipped and then blasted to get rid of the OEM paint.
Paint them together with that folatec stuff and it starts to make sense
Post by: daz_pd on January 25, 2013, 08:14:42 pm
No but your lugs are the same in the car so you just need some GTI Caliper carriers and some caddy Calipers and some 286mm discs
There's some caddy Calipers on the bay just popped up
Volkswagen Caddy Mk3 Typ 2K (2004->) Rear Brake Caliper N/S (http://Volkswagen Caddy Mk3 Typ 2K (2004->) Rear Brake Caliper N/S)
I've had a couple of sets of these guys and they normally let them go for about £45 each if you ring up
There's a set of Mk5 GTI rears on there for £150
Its mounting up of course especially if the plan is to send them for paint.. That said if you wanted to paint them yourselves its not that bad.....let me explain.
The caddy Calipers are not painted and you could strictly speaking have them bead blasted entire and then paint them having removed the handbrake gubbins to do a good job.
The golf mk5 rear carriers could be dipped and then blasted to get rid of the OEM paint.
Paint them together with that folatec stuff and it starts to make sense
thanks Dave, I just happen to have a set of spare GTI rear brakes in my garage, looks like they could be getting fitted! so all I would need would be the caddy calipers and I would be good to go!
Post by: swgti on January 25, 2013, 08:35:51 pm
Post by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on February 05, 2013, 10:14:43 pm
Its £139 or best offer, I've got a job for the caddy handbrake attach brackets on the back of the Calipers and the rear beam with a hub attached for which I'll pay the princely sum of £60
So if anybody's up for some upgrade rear calipers at handy money they'll prob need collecting and I could meet up somewhere jct 32-45 on the M6 for the remnants!
2006 Volkswagen Caddy COMPLETE REAR AXLE BEAM
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2006-Volkswagen-Caddy-COMPLETE-REAR-AXLE-BEAM-/170985609095?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item27cf895787&_uhb=1 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2006-Volkswagen-Caddy-COMPLETE-REAR-AXLE-BEAM-/170985609095?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item27cf895787&_uhb=1)
Post by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on February 06, 2013, 12:59:44 pm
Post by: daz_pd on February 23, 2013, 12:06:59 am
Nobody????????????
You didnt happen to pick these up Dave? if so Id have the Calipers off you?
Post by: camfollower on March 10, 2013, 12:46:43 am
I've just fitted mk6 Gti calipers on mine this summer,.they came off a late 2010 car apparently. The piston on them is a lot bigger than what was on my mk5 ones and I must say they've made a hell of difference. Not sure if they've uprated them all but when I had to get the lines the lad at VW had to go and look at an ED35 to get the right parts as they weren't on ETKA yet. Nice little mod seeing I only paid £90 for them!
Don't mean to be obtuse here, but if The above quote is correct, why bother with the caddy mod? Surely it's easier and more cost effective to grab Mk6 rears... Or am I missing something...
Post by: daz_pd on March 10, 2013, 08:56:38 am
I've just fitted mk6 Gti calipers on mine this summer,.they came off a late 2010 car apparently. The piston on them is a lot bigger than what was on my mk5 ones and I must say they've made a hell of difference. Not sure if they've uprated them all but when I had to get the lines the lad at VW had to go and look at an ED35 to get the right parts as they weren't on ETKA yet. Nice little mod seeing I only paid £90 for them!
Don't mean to be obtuse here, but if The above quote is correct, why bother with the caddy mod? Surely it's easier and more cost effective to grab Mk6 rears... Or am I missing something...
You would think that, but I have the MK6 rear setup on my FL VRS, and trust me the Caddy mod is worthwhile, The MK6 piston is the same size as the MK5 GTI 288mm setup, just the caliper/disc is smaller/lighter. So it would be worthwhile, Its probably going to be my next mod when I get the cash together
Post by: camfollower on March 10, 2013, 09:48:12 am
I've just fitted mk6 Gti calipers on mine this summer,.they came off a late 2010 car apparently. The piston on them is a lot bigger than what was on my mk5 ones and I must say they've made a hell of difference. Not sure if they've uprated them all but when I had to get the lines the lad at VW had to go and look at an ED35 to get the right parts as they weren't on ETKA yet. Nice little mod seeing I only paid £90 for them!
Don't mean to be obtuse here, but if The above quote is correct, why bother with the caddy mod? Surely it's easier and more cost effective to grab Mk6 rears... Or am I missing something...
You would think that, but I have the MK6 rear setup on my FL VRS, and trust me the Caddy mod is worthwhile, The MK6 piston is the same size as the MK5 GTI 288mm setup, just the caliper/disc is smaller/lighter. So it would be worthwhile, Its probably going to be my next mod when I get the cash together
Cheers for that. So swgti is either mistaken or perhaps he grabbed some ed35 rears (do they have a larger piston?)
If I was going to be buying some standard mk5 rears, I may as well buy the mk6 ones purely for a slight weight saving..?
I'd like to do the cabby mod, but it's going to be 400plus once everything is painted, bits to fit, delivery etc.
Post by: swgti on March 10, 2013, 12:17:27 pm
Post by: camfollower on March 10, 2013, 04:42:11 pm
The ones I have deffo have a larger piston so I wonder if they're ED35 calipers, the lad I bought than off hadn't seen the car they came off, he used the fronts and they were identical, maybe the early mk6 had the same as the mk5 and 2010 onwards there's been an upgrade? Also the ones I have are made by Bosch.
Very interesting that mate, thanks... did you happen to measure the piston diameter, standard rears are 38mm as Dave suggests on page1.
Post by: daz_pd on March 10, 2013, 06:44:54 pm
Post by: camfollower on March 10, 2013, 07:52:35 pm
Mines is an 2011 car. Bosch rear setup 38mm rear piston afaik
Come to think of it, the Edition 35 didn't come out until 2011/12, so the 2010 rear calipers couldn't be Ed.35
:rolleye:
Is there a red rear GTI caliper that came with a larger than 38mm piston in standard guise out there?
Post by: swgti on March 11, 2013, 01:20:16 pm
Post by: daz_pd on March 11, 2013, 02:20:01 pm
Post by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on March 11, 2013, 04:04:51 pm
Just had Richard the MD at brakes Interntional measure it for me
Post by: camfollower on March 11, 2013, 04:10:36 pm
Post by: daz_pd on March 11, 2013, 05:06:01 pm
Mk6 GTI rear defo 38mm, don't forget the manufacturers make the piston top wider than the piston itself to decrease the area loading.
Just had Richard the MD at brakes Interntional measure it for me
thanks Dave! glad Im not hallucinating after all! and yes the 2011 VRS has the same brake setup as a MK6 GTI, amongst other things :happy2:
Post by: Acidutzul on May 28, 2013, 06:22:27 am
Post by: E30Dom on June 12, 2013, 02:17:48 pm
Post by: daz_pd on June 12, 2013, 02:51:58 pm
Has anyone done the caddy swap as can't get any information, can't obtain a response from DaveB and Jonny refurb guy isn't helping with a price/won;' respond to emails, so looks like this has died it's death... Looks like im gonna have to go S3, cos i want black calipers...
Im in the same boat, I had got everything sorted right up to the point of paying for it, then when I asked how they wanted paid they stopped responding :-( I know they are busy, but if they dont want the business they would be best not advertising. Just spent the money on a few other bits and will try them again in a month or so.
Post by: E30Dom on June 12, 2013, 03:01:24 pm
I also wanted to know if the caddy 2k calipers fitted the standard mk5 gti carriers, or you need the carriers aswell...
Post by: E30Dom on June 12, 2013, 03:36:35 pm
Post by: Acidutzul on June 18, 2013, 05:29:08 pm
Post by: Tr0nic on August 12, 2013, 03:32:27 pm
Does this increase in piston diameter not need a bigger master cylinder?
Also can I use the GTI rear brake pads or do these need to be for a caddy?
Post by: bacillus on August 12, 2013, 03:43:54 pm
Am very interested in doing this mod ! :drool:
Does this increase in piston diameter not need a bigger master cylinder?
Also can I use the GTI rear brake pads or do these need to be for a caddy?
Bigger master cylinder isn't needed.
The standard rear gti pads will fit without issue. :smiley:
Post by: E30Dom on August 12, 2013, 03:46:41 pm
Post by: nicky on August 27, 2013, 05:38:08 pm
Post by: nicky on August 28, 2013, 02:46:44 pm
Post by: E30Dom on August 28, 2013, 05:23:21 pm
And mine have sold, sorry...
Post by: sub39h on August 28, 2013, 08:52:11 pm
Mk3, Type 2K 2004-
And mine have sold, sorry...
looking forward to having them fitted. i didn't realise that early A3 2.0Ts don't even have 286mm rears, so i'm jumping straight from whatever puny size i have now to uprated 282mm
Post by: nicky on August 29, 2013, 01:14:08 pm
Post by: nicky on August 29, 2013, 02:10:08 pm
Sorry for all the question on this just want to make sure I'm getting the 1s with the larger piston.
Post by: nicky on September 09, 2013, 06:29:48 pm
Thanks
Post by: drsilviuro on September 23, 2013, 04:12:25 pm
Post by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on September 23, 2013, 07:32:52 pm
1. Removal of the long hard black connecting line from the caddy caliper and replace it with the curly S shaped connecting line from your GTI rear caliper
2. Removal of the fixed bracket on the back of the GTI Caliper (Not the movable handbrake "lever") and transplant it onto the Caddy caliper
Theres no need to worry about the Master Cylinder dont forget in essence we're getting S3/R32 rear calipers in terms of piston size and they dont get an MC upgrade.
Just a refresher, Diameter counts for nothing in braking so GTI Rear Radius is 286/2 = 143mm................S3 rear radius 310/2 = 155mm
So a 8% ish rear reduction in radius over an S3 setup for a 7ishKG axle reduction in weight.......
Dont get me wrong if you're going BIG brakes on the front then the S3 upgrade or even bigger is required to maintain balance.
The caddy mod just complements the NQSBBK really well, dynamically works and doesnt cost a fortune and has reasonable renewables.
The later BOSCH calipers of the 2009- DONT work, you can tell the ones you need they just look exactly the same as stock GTI ones they just need some paint.
In fact some already have them and nobody would ever know :evilgrin:
Post by: sub39h on October 01, 2013, 05:56:06 pm
i had a set of these fitted to the back of my A3 about 2 weeks ago. i've been running an NQS for nearly 2 years and aside from the appearance (wish the discs were bigger) i have been very happy with them. there is a tangible difference in brake balance with the caddy rears. where the car used to nosedive under braking before it now feels far more stable. the car does also stop better (tho some of this may be down to the brake fluid change i had done. my old fluid was less than 18 month old however.)
anyway for the price paid i am very happy with this modification
for A3 owners - i drive a 2006 model year car and had the larger 286mm rear brakes. apparently some A3 2.0Ts have the smaller brakes so you need to check first as you'll need new carriers as well.
Post by: nicky on October 01, 2013, 09:42:07 pm
Post by: nicky on October 02, 2013, 09:30:44 am
Post by: Flybynite on April 19, 2015, 08:38:18 pm
Anyone know if this would work with a newer MQB car with 272mm disks / 38mm caliper?
Or is there a better solution these days?
Post by: AIR_CHILLED on May 27, 2015, 08:14:53 pm
I am currently gathering the pieces required for the front NQSBBK and now have a cheap OEM rear upgrade to match.
For price reference I Just required 2 x calipers off ebay from a 2005 1.6 tdi 2k caddy for £50 each.
Regards,
Mike
Post by: AIR_CHILLED on September 20, 2015, 09:49:55 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F15%2F09%2F20%2F2cf18ae12efc9747072f6939d99c7d62.jpg&hash=8f5939daca598c49adba286593166dea9f8d1af0)
2k Caddy rear calipers fitted today along with braided lines.
I will report my findings on here once they are bedded in.
Post by: AIR_CHILLED on October 11, 2015, 09:01:00 am
I chose the caddy rear calipers because I already have the front NQSBBK (Porsche 986) calipers fitted.
I love part bin / scrapyard tuning that doesn't break the bank.
NQSBBK brake set-up does not shout modified and will only attract attention from 'people in the know' (although the rear calipers externally are completely undetectable)
As mentioned before, anyone fitting bigger front brakes the S3 vented set-up is a far superior option but is not suited to the 312mm front vs 310mm rear.
First impressions -
On the first test drive before bedding in there was a slight noticeable increase in pedal travel and I thought the increase in piston surface area was the cause but after 200 miles+ commuting to work they firmed up nicely as the new pads and discs bedded in I presume.
The epic pedal feel that the 986 caliper provides was back!
A few weeks later and +1000 miles on I took the car out for a good few drives on some tight twisty roads and this is when I noticed the difference!
Once the brakes had warmed up (standard Pagid all round) the extra power on hard braking was noticeable and the pedal feel now feels rock solid inspiring much confidence.
The rear end feels much more stable and flatter under hard braking whereas before it would nose dive more and the rear feel floaty.
The much improved brakes have now highlighted the next chassis weakness for my fast road set-up . The suspension feels far too soft now and is almost like I can feel the cars weight roll around more under braking and cornering.
Next mod = H&R ARB's
My current chassis set-up for your reference:
-H&R springs
-SALK
-Front polybushes
-Vibratechnic lower mount
-Wavetrac
I hope this post helps if your deciding on rear brake set-ups.
Caddy calipers can be found cheaply on eBay and the rebuild kits are less that £10 each.
I am very happy with the set-up and would recommend.
Thanks,
Mike.
Post by: dansmith180 on October 11, 2015, 12:42:32 pm
Mini review...
I chose the caddy rear calipers because I already have the front NQSBBK (Porsche 986) calipers fitted.
I love part bin / scrapyard tuning that doesn't break the bank.
NQSBBK brake set-up does not shout modified and will only attract attention from 'people in the know' (although the rear calipers externally are completely undetectable)
As mentioned before, anyone fitting bigger front brakes the S3 vented set-up is a far superior option but is not suited to the 312mm front vs 310mm rear.
First impressions -
On the first test drive before bedding in there was a slight noticeable increase in pedal travel and I thought the increase in piston surface area was the cause but after 200 miles+ commuting to work they firmed up nicely as the new pads and discs bedded in I presume.
The epic pedal feel that the 986 caliper provides was back!
A few weeks later and +1000 miles on I took the car out for a good few drives on some tight twisty roads and this is when I noticed the difference!
Once the brakes had warmed up (standard Pagid all round) the extra power on hard braking was noticeable and the pedal feel now feels rock solid inspiring much confidence.
The rear end feels much more stable and flatter under hard braking whereas before it would nose dive more and the rear feel floaty.
The much improved brakes have now highlighted the next chassis weakness for my fast road set-up . The suspension feels far too soft now and is almost like I can feel the cars weight roll around more under braking and cornering.
Next mod = H&R ARB's
My current chassis set-up for your reference:
-H&R springs
-SALK
-Front polybushes
-Vibratechnic lower mount
-Wavetrac
I hope this post helps if your deciding on rear brake set-ups.
Caddy calipers can be found cheaply on eBay and the rebuild kits are less that £10 each.
I am very happy with the set-up and would recommend.
Thanks,
Mike.
Great write up mate, so you think these probably would t be good enough to balance out 340mm discs with TTRS 4pots at the front? Do more aggressive pads help? Cheers.
Post by: AIR_CHILLED on October 11, 2015, 01:45:27 pm
But yes I'm sure this mod will help shift the bias back to a standard ratio whatever that may be.
More aggressive pads would help out any enthusiastic driver but if your talking just trying to make the rear more powerful then I'm not sure if unmatched pads on each axle is a good idea because of warm up, cool down time, friction coefficient and other stuff...?
Post by: dansmith180 on October 11, 2015, 01:54:31 pm
If it was me I would choose S3 and then Caddy 2k in that order as your gone bigger + more powerful at the front.
But yes I'm sure this mod will help shift the bias back to a standard ratio whatever that may be.
More aggressive pads would help out any enthusiastic driver but if your talking just trying to make the rear more powerful then I'm not sure if unmatched pads on each axle is a good idea because of warm up, cool down time, friction coefficient and other stuff...?
Cheers mate, yeah i would match fronts and rear as like you say best to have the same all round (same with tyres). Was thinking about trying EBC yellow stuff as my fronts are nearly done and might just grab the caddy rears with braided hoses and matching pads. Might just give it a try and go S3 route if its not enough.
Post by: Christiank on August 06, 2017, 07:03:25 pm
Is this option still the best swap to compliment the NQSBBK front brake setup or have someone discovered another way? :)
Post by: r5gtt on August 06, 2017, 07:35:52 pm
Post by: Christiank on September 18, 2017, 05:07:56 pm
I'm going to do this mod to my rear brakes. Since I've got the TDI I need to buy the correct parts. Don't want to buy a complete GTI rear set if I only need a few parts. Going to have the Caddy caliper refurbed anyway so will have all new parts for it.
Should all the parts on the caddy caliper be replaced with gti calipers parts? Or can stuff like bleed nipples, dust boot for the caliper bolts and the calipers bolts be used from the caddy caliper?
Post by: rich83 on September 26, 2017, 10:40:59 am
You need to swap over all of the OEM handbrake hardware over too.
Most of the rest is reused.