MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Kregiel on February 02, 2013, 10:23:29 pm

Title: My K04 custom map opinions please
Post by: Kregiel on February 02, 2013, 10:23:29 pm
Hi Guys,

Following my engine failure with K04 GTI engine I have second thoughts about remapping and map I was running. Attached is the RR I have done after the remap. What do mapping experts think about it? With the new engine I am considering my options of custom map vs big names and looking for opinions

Thanks a mill
Paul

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fq481%2FKregiel%2Frolling4_zpse31485e3.jpg&hash=36dbbc1dad5961644ccc3e7ffbd37c8a5a19b75d)
Title: Re: My K04 custom map opinions please
Post by: rich83 on February 02, 2013, 10:28:00 pm
Why is there a dip in the graph at 4500RPM?  :scared:
Title: Re: My K04 custom map opinions please
Post by: S2 Ant on February 02, 2013, 10:28:37 pm
Neither curve looks particularly smooth. You shouldnt end up with something like that, the curves from around 4k to 5.5k look like they need some work and torque looks to drop off a bit much maybe?
Title: Re: My K04 custom map opinions please
Post by: R-tech-Nick on February 03, 2013, 12:47:31 am
Boost control issues with the N75 PIDs controls fitting each other or the ecu is seeing high STFT deviations and cutting power to bring trims back on line safe.

Are u running a generic or custom map?
Title: Re: My K04 custom map opinions please
Post by: Kregiel on February 03, 2013, 10:36:03 am
Boost control issues with the N75 PIDs controls fitting each other or the ecu is seeing high STFT deviations and cutting power to bring trims back on line safe.

Are u running a generic or custom map?

it's custom map.... My car is gti with k04 conversion and twintake. According to guy that tuned my car twintake is tricky to tune.... Also did not drive any other k04 cars so had no other opinion.

My engine blew as per my other posts so now with new engine wonder if this tuner is worth getting back to. Although I am Dublin based don't mind traveling to UK to the right tuner etc. I presume with correct map based on people opinions above regarding graph it would be night and day.

Thanks
Paul
Title: Re: My K04 custom map opinions please
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on February 03, 2013, 10:56:54 am
Nick @ R-Tech is regarded as one of the best custom tuners for VW's (not just on this forum either).

IMHO your best going there if your making a trip over to the uk  :happy2:
Title: Re: My K04 custom map opinions please
Post by: damoegan on February 03, 2013, 10:58:01 am
According to guy that tuned my car twintake is tricky to tune....

Thats complete BS mate, any tuner worth his salt can tune any car with any intake...
Title: Re: My K04 custom map opinions please
Post by: 56OctyVRS on February 03, 2013, 11:26:00 am
Id save some money and go to R Tech for a map. Im sure you could make the trip in about 2 days and book a travelodge or somewhere to stay over.
Title: Re: My K04 custom map opinions please
Post by: ROH ECHT on February 03, 2013, 11:32:04 am
Why is there a dip in the graph at 4500RPM?  :scared:

I think it does that on many mkv's... :confused:
Mine always coincides with lambda dropping at that point going richer and, when my rail pressure climbing settles and holds it more level. Not sure if this is coincidence of the bump causing culprit?

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1205.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb434%2Frohecht%2FNewDyno-chart001.jpg&hash=78c528b1597cab4609887cf75fb3b278e8669ecf)
Title: Re: My K04 custom map opinions please
Post by: Kregiel on February 03, 2013, 01:41:19 pm
Boost control issues with the N75 PIDs controls fitting each other or the ecu is seeing high STFT deviations and cutting power to bring trims back on line safe.

Are u running a generic or custom map?

Nick,
What does it mean in layman terms?

Thanks
Paul
Title: Re: My K04 custom map opinions please
Post by: bacillus on February 03, 2013, 02:36:06 pm
Nick,
What does it mean in layman terms?

Thanks
Paul

In a nutshell it means that your mapping wasn't optimal. 
Title: Re: My K04 custom map opinions please
Post by: Kregiel on February 03, 2013, 02:41:59 pm

In a nutshell it means that your mapping wasn't optimal. 

Could it have caused failure to the engine??

PAul
Title: Re: My K04 custom map opinions please
Post by: bacillus on February 03, 2013, 02:48:49 pm
Could it have caused failure to the engine??

PAul

I don't think anyone can give you a definite yes or no answer here.
In isolation your engine should have been able to cope with the torque and power output without an issue using standard internals.
Title: Re: My K04 custom map opinions please
Post by: RedRobin on February 03, 2013, 02:54:56 pm

According to guy that tuned my car twintake is tricky to tune....

Thats complete BS mate, any tuner worth his salt can tune any car with any intake...


.... x 2 !!

I wouldn't go anywhere near any tuner who told me that BS.

For example, my Dyno-Dynamics plots at JKM after Twintake (and before) are very smooth.
Title: Re: My K04 custom map opinions please
Post by: Kregiel on February 03, 2013, 03:14:14 pm
Thanks guys that's very helpful!

PMed Nick and once have engine fitted end of this week will arrange a trip to UK! The engine I bought is from 2012 Golf R with 2000 miles on it. It's just run in and ready for remap!

Paul
Title: Re: My K04 custom map opinions please
Post by: bacillus on February 03, 2013, 04:06:45 pm
Did you manage to get the matching ecu as well?
Title: Re: My K04 custom map opinions please
Post by: Kregiel on February 03, 2013, 06:11:34 pm
Did you manage to get the matching ecu as well?

Is matching ECU required or the existing ECU could be reprogrammed? My mechanic assured me that won't be an issue.

Paul
Title: Re: My K04 custom map opinions please
Post by: PDT on February 03, 2013, 06:39:48 pm
Here's a comparable K04 graph from another yon dynamics digital dyno:

http://www.sedox-performance.co.uk/dynoGraphs/Audi%20-%20Seat%20-%20Skoda%20-%20VW/Petrol/2.0%20TFSi%20230hp%20(ED30).htm

Spot the difference  :confused:
Title: Re: My K04 custom map opinions please
Post by: gazon69 on February 03, 2013, 07:05:41 pm
You got p.m
Title: Re: My K04 custom map opinions please
Post by: bacillus on February 03, 2013, 07:14:45 pm
Is matching ECU required or the existing ECU could be reprogrammed? My mechanic assured me that won't be an issue.

Paul

Old ecu can be used but matching ecu would better as you won't have to change any of the engine's original sensors.
Title: Re: My K04 custom map opinions please
Post by: Top Cat on February 03, 2013, 09:09:28 pm
R-Tech are undoubtedly very good, but surely you guys need to find someone local to you. What are you going to do when you change some hardware and need the map tweaking or it develops a fault.   :happy2:
Title: Re: My K04 custom map opinions please
Post by: Kregiel on February 03, 2013, 09:56:57 pm
In here lies the problem. There is no one else  :sad1:

As i said not even a Revo/Apr dealer

I think Paul is the same as me, there is no more hardware to go on  :signLOL:

Agree 100% here with James!

The market is very small here and this guy who mapped my car and James is supposed to be the best around here! As what other tuners have commented on my RR graph this might not be the case.

I won't be making any changes to my hardware at all. Just need a reliable and safe map with the components I have on.

Paul
Title: Re: My K04 custom map opinions please
Post by: R-tech-Nick on February 06, 2013, 12:43:35 am
I cannot comment on the mapping, I know the tuner who wrote the map.  I think the point he was trying to make was he was trying to map around the audiable surge point of the ko4 with a high flowing engine setup, it's a big job to set the ko3 maps to run with the ko4 and even more so when trying to eliminate the audiable surge point.  A lot of the ko4 conversions I have seen most have not had the surge worked on, they give nice smooth graphs but flutter like mad.
 The torque on the graph on page 1 is basically running with the boost being held back with fluctuations from the ecu PID controllers trying to keep the boost lower than the turbo natural spool profile.
I have ran a BWA engine to the max with a k04 setup, 404bhp 400lbft and the rods held up solid but the rings let go first, same with Dans Leon running a GT series also spat a ring before a rod.


Rods snap when they want to from, silly high peak cylinder pressures from high boost and torque,  casting imperfections, continued elevated engine and oil temp, (the reason track days kill more engine than A road driving)

IMO it would be hard to kill a BWA engine with mapping, unless it was set to spike the boost at 30+psi
Title: Re: My K04 custom map opinions please
Post by: rich83 on February 06, 2013, 01:15:54 am
I cannot comment on the mapping, I know the tuner who wrote the map.  I think the point he was trying to make was he was trying to map around the audiable surge point of the ko4 with a high flowing engine setup, it's a big job to set the ko3 maps to run with the ko4 and even more so when trying to eliminate the audiable surge point.  A lot of the ko4 conversions I have seen most have not had the surge worked on, they give nice smooth graphs but flutter like mad.
 The torque on the graph on page 1 is basically running with the boost being held back with fluctuations from the ecu PID controllers trying to keep the boost lower than the turbo natural spool profile.
I have ran a BWA engine to the max with a k04 setup, 404bhp 400lbft and the rods held up solid but the rings let go first, same with Dans Leon running a GT series also spat a ring before a rod.


Rods snap when they want to from, silly high peak cylinder pressures from high boost and torque,  casting imperfections, continued elevated engine and oil temp, (the reason track days kill more engine than A road driving)

IMO it would be hard to kill a BWA engine with mapping, unless it was set to spike the boost at 30+psi

What do you mean my flutter nick? Do you mean "boost regualtion" flutter? Cos im sure i got a sh*t load of that on my stage 1 revo.
Title: Re: My K04 custom map opinions please
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on February 06, 2013, 04:36:45 am

I think the APR dealer in N.I are called Autotune?  Aaron McConway knows (AaronCupra on here)  :happy2: