MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: RedRobin on July 13, 2009, 09:42:14 pm
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Following discussion in a thread which became very off-topic, I thought it best to start a new topic (which will doubtless meander off-topic itself in the usual human way). It's a bit of a rant as well, and a few of you here may very well feel it's aimed at you.
All of us here, whether we modify our cars or not, have contact with independent commercial companies/organisations varying from VW dealers to very specialist tuners. We each have expectations and those expectations vary among individuals.
Your individual level of expectations and how you deal with the situation when they aren't met, is key to how happy or frustrated you will feel. This applies equally to personal relationships - If you are going to have a tick box list against a potential partner you may never experience true love or happiness - You love people in spite of their human faults. Businesses are made up of people and really there is not a lot of difference except that you won't want to sleep with your hairy tuner, although you might want to with the hot girl on reception at your VW dealer.
Companies invariably recognise the importance of customer service to their business and most strive to do the best they can. Even those who, in my direct experience, I have found exceptional (JKM), don't always call me back as quickly as I might wish. Others who have over several years always been extremely helpful as suppliers (Awesome), very rarely call me back as promised. Milltek usually take ages to get back to me but the quality of their service when they do is second-to-none. TTshop are the same. People at VW Racing I need to speak to are often not available at all! These are just a few examples and the list goes on. But in all cases I don't stress myself out with high expectations - I just remain calm and chase it later. The same applies to emails - They just join a queue - Welcome to the real world. It's simply not realistic to rely on emails as being effective communication and too many people hide behind them due to their expectations of a fast reply - "Why haven't you answered my email?" they say, and then make fundamental and sweeping judgements. There is no substitute for spoken communication. Use all methods of communication and calmly and politely chase things, doing so without fancy expectations. Who are you to sit in judgement anyway? - Prepare to be judged yourself!
I've spent time at the premises of most of the companies I buy from and understand their pressures and workloads - What's the point of getting irritated by your high expectations not being met. Times are hard (so we are led to believe) and economic recession doesn't exactly encourage top heaviness in staffing levels. This in turn, even with the best will in the world, makes it more difficult for companies to meet the expectations which some customers have. Some customers are principally led by trying to milk the absolute maximum out of every single purchase and often regardless of the quality of what they are buying. As part of that attitude they often have high expectations which are totally unsympathetic to those other human beings they are dealing with.
What's more important are the actual products and services offered for purchase. Will you deny yourself the opportunity to buy something first-class just because the customer service doesn't meet your unrealistically high expectations? In an ideal world recieving both would be perfect, but, as in all relationships there's a compromise.
This doesn't excuse companies from not trying their utmost to provide better customer service and responses - It's just a reality check and a suggestion that you may get better results by being more understanding and tolerant and working with and not against people and all their human faults.
Didn't your mother teach you that you'll always get more from using honey than vinegar?
Either way, how you behave towards others is your decision, your karma, your life.
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Im jumping in on this thread, as am guessing it spills from another I havnt looked at yet but...
RedRobin, you hit the nail on the head and I totaly back everything said. And I do so wish that all customers thought and appreciated all said.
As I sometimes say, after dealing with such unpleasant customers, I'd love to go into their work places and kick off and see how it feels.. Some people, you can never do enough for...
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Robin,
Up until today I had a lot of respect for you but I can quite clearly see you have an issue with my posts I made yesterday.
I can't understand why you feel the need to go over this again as IMHO you are doing nothing to help any of these companies you have the close relationships with.
As you know I work for one of, if not the most customer services focused companies in the UK so understand that importance of this way more than most.
The basis of your comments below is email is not an affective method of communications for these companies as their workloads don't allow them time to respond in a timely fashion. If you go back and bother to read my original posts in the example I gave I have never received a response to more than one message. This isn't a matter of going to the back of the queue this is blatant poor customer service.
Also at no point I have I remained anything other than calm, unlike a lot of people I haven't immediately posted "blah blah blah company haven't replied to my email from yesterday. The contact I referred to was from the start of June from over a two week period, hardly a fancy expectation to get even an acknowledgment of the message.
At the end of the day it is very very rare to find a company that has a product or service that can't be matched or bettered elsewhere these days so the people, like me, who feel let down by some of these companies are not the ones losing out as there are plenty of other options out there these days.
Steve
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Everyone has different morals which they apply to life. These morals help us everyday to make decisions. The same decisions which make us individuals.
I cant personally see why you feel it is appropiate to persist in what can only be descried as moaning about this "topic".
If anything, somebody has too much time on their hands. And I dont think its VWR's head of customer service.
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I think using the credit crunch as an excuse for poor customer service/satisfaction is pretty lame and surely it should have the opposite effect on there customer approach. I am personally feeling this credit crunch and at work our focus is 1000% customer satisfaction, as if we dont not give them what they want there are hundreds of others offering similar services and people will vote with there feet.
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Steve,
Sorry that you are taking my words so personally. I am allowed to express my views and opinions on this site aren't I? The subject is highly relevant to most people on this site - It relates to much of what is discussed here - Sourcing and buying car components and services.
I can only assume you are taking my words so personally because I have touched a nerve.
It really isn't my mission to help any particular companies - All my points are generic and any companies named are merely used as examples which we all know. You need to step back a moment and look at what I post on this site in another light.
I'm not referring to any particular experience of poor customer service you personally may have had in starting this topic and I can't help it if you want to see it that way. Perhaps it's just that you are relating it yourself to what I have written.
You've lost respect for me? Why? Because our views may be different? Because I don't meet your expectations in some area?
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Everyone has different morals which they apply to life. These morals help us everyday to make decisions. The same decisions which make us individuals.
I cant personally see why you feel it is appropiate to persist in what can only be descried as moaning about this "topic".
If anything, somebody has too much time on their hands. And I dont think its VWR's head of customer service.
....Sorry but I'm finding your words slightly ambiguous in that I'm not sure whether you are referring to myself or not in "persist in what can only be descried as moaning about this "topic".
I'm glad to say that I do have loads of time on my hands at this stage in my life - Nothing wrong with that is there?
I very much agree with you about morals and decisions stuff :happy2:
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Robin i really have tried resisting biting onto this but i cant.
That is the biggest load of Utter bollocks i have ever heard on this forum.
Shall we start a thread where people can right out there true dealings with these couple of companies, i think it would be interesting to see if the rest of the forum found there expectations to be to high. We could make it a sticky at the top of the general section so everyday we can all see those silly fools who expected to much. :innocent:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftomashandmilly%2FDaft_stuff%2Fpost-2975822-1221970398.gif&hash=43f7c28ab3b768a859e45895a329bb91eb3ccc90) Honestly Robin i Like you a lot but this is becoming very tiresome.
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I see where your coming from and you have had a great deal of thought into this and i had my 2p worth on the other post that went way of course :ashamed:.
My tuner is the same, set in ways doesn't always call me back, email 5 days later but I make allowances as in my opinion they are good at what they do compared to the ltd number of specialist tuners in Scotland but I guess its what some people will put up with. These days some guys are spending £1k a time at these tuners so i understand how they are peed off.
We live in a Customer comes first world and customer care is rammed down our throats all the time and with modding when you see a new product for your car and you check the Co website it gives you 2 sentences and you think i need more info cos we need to know more its how we are and when they dont get back then its only natural to get miffed. I mean how many emails must Milltek get a day bearing in mind they dont just do VW's they do lots more so I would imagine the person that reads them must have a fairly boring job lol.
Anyone who read Jonnyc's new post on the twintake and went to Inters and asked Forge about it? they had barrel loads by the sound of it that to me is the best product placement yet( I am not inferring any wrong doing by the way) Milltek again by using R/R as a test bed with the new black tips zorst and VWR with all the mounts for this that and the next thing it would be easy to think theres some benefit for you and these companies with free advertising for them and discounted parts for you.
When I first started using the forums mainly the grey one that most of us came from, certain folks were dead against GIAC saying they were the ruiner of all UK engines these were mainly Revo Fanclub members and I am sure GIAC'S business suffered from that but being the laid back guy I am I checked all the other forums and drew my own conclusions.
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I think using the credit crunch as an excuse for poor customer service/satisfaction is pretty lame and surely it should have the opposite effect on there customer approach. I am personally feeling this credit crunch and at work our focus is 1000% customer satisfaction, as if we dont not give them what they want there are hundreds of others offering similar services and people will vote with there feet.
....I agree very much that if it's used as an excuse for poor customer service, it's very lame. But actually my point was that such an excuse can nevertheless sometimes be quite genuine.
Yes, it should have the opposite effect.
Part of what I'm saying is what's the harm in being more human and sympathetic to others.
However, I think I'm right in saying that you work for a very large corporate in a cut-throat business environment and it's possibly one which actually only has customer service to offer people in differentiating itself from its competitors.
Thanks for contributing your view :smiley: - It's appreciated.
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I tend to find my expectations change depending on the seriousness of the nature of my enquiry / complaint. My expectation and patience also varies depending on how busy I am too. I often find myself trying to sort out an issue car related or otherwise, which has arisen unexpectedly and trying to resolve this whilst extremely busy at work and see the issue as an interuption to my day.
Customer service is one of those things which can be debated all day but I do feel that on the whole, too many companies pay lip service to it. I also feel that companies are far too profit orientated and poor customer service is largely down to employing too few people and individuals who are not empowered to make decisions.
I can totally see and understand why people expect top quality service; I guess I am one of these people. I am more than happy to purchase goods / use a competitor who will offer me quality service over those that can't or choose not to. In the past I have had new unreliable cars requiring serious ongoing attention to address and rectify issues but excellent service from the dealer made it much less of a problem.
Companies make a strategic decision to sell their poducts or offer a service. They don't offer these any cheaper for not providing good aftersales service.
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Robin i really have tried resisting biting onto this but i cant.
That is the biggest load of Utter bollocks i have ever heard on this forum.
Shall we start a thread where people can right out there true dealings with these couple of companies, i think it would be interesting to see if the rest of the forum found there expectations to be to high. We could make it a sticky at the top of the general section so everyday we can all see those silly fools who expected to much. :innocent:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftomashandmilly%2FDaft_stuff%2Fpost-2975822-1221970398.gif&hash=43f7c28ab3b768a859e45895a329bb91eb3ccc90) Honestly Robin i Like you a lot but this is becoming very tiresome.
....I love you too, TC, :grin: but why do you absolutely insist on thinking that this topic is referring to two particular companies rather than a broad discussion or debate on Customer Service, Relationships, and Expectations as the topic's title?
Yes, it was originally inspired by all that stuff written which was off-topic in the other thread - It brought up an interesting subject. Okay, but if it's so tiresome to you, why post in it?
Hey! Come on! There's loads of threads on this site in which people are writing "utter bollox". Besides what's utter bollox for you isn't necessarily utter bollox to someone else.
:smiley:
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I tend to find my expectations change depending on the seriousness of the nature of my enquiry / complaint. My expectation and patience also varies depending on how busy I am too. I often find myself trying to sort out an issue car related or otherwise, which has arisen unexpectedly and trying to resolve this whilst extremely busy at work and see the issue as an interuption to my day.
Customer service is one of those things which can be debated all day but I do feel that on the whole, too many companies pay lip service to it. I also feel that companies are far too profit orientated and poor customer service is largely down to employing too few people and individuals who are not empowered to make decisions.
I can totally see and understand why people expect top quality service; I guess I am one of these people. I am more than happy to purchase goods / use a competitor who will offer me quality service over those that can't or choose not to. In the past I have had new unreliable cars requiring serious ongoing attention to address and rectify issues but excellent service from the dealer made it much less of a problem.
Companies make a strategic decision to sell their poducts or offer a service. They don't offer these any cheaper for not providing good aftersales service.
^^^^
Spot on!! :happy2: But it does sound as if you exercise a degree of tolerance and understanding.
It's definitely in the best interests of every company to achieve real customer service but even the best will have hiccups occasionally or have difficulty balancing it with sudden demand and other factors.
Sometimes one comes across a company which has first-class customer service but rubbish product - As a customer I prefer the other way around if I had to make a choice.
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....I love you too, TC, :grin: but why do you absolutely insist on thinking that this topic is referring to two particular companies rather than a broad discussion or debate on Customer Service, Relationships, and Expectations as the topic's title?
You just carry on Robin Its all good :evilgrin:
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a thread like this is never going to be pretty :ashamed:
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i always got taught when i was 17 years old,that its the customer who pays your wages-treat them like you would like to be treated.This has stuck with me all the time...sorry if i have gone of topic
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a thread like this is never going to be pretty :ashamed:
I disagree.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fmm104%2Ftomashandmilly%2FUglyWoman.jpg&hash=26faf7ca9bd6f0f0f1c3946a8a6a08996adb9623)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fmm104%2Ftomashandmilly%2FKelly_Brook-GQrescan_thumb17.jpg&hash=7babb1b4961a0b8a556bea33ea9c8f37a6fea4ac)
Rescued. :driver:
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oof, kelly...right at the top of my list that girl :love:
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If I recall correctly Robin , you ran your own company, worked very long hours and enjoyed limited leisure time prior to retiring.
I am assuming you have more leisure time now so have you found your tollerance / expectation of service different to perhaps when you were working under pressure and very busy? I'm just wondering if this has a significant impact on expectations?
:surprised: I can't believe some people's posts on this thread, some very harsh. I lurk quit a bit on this forum but as I don't mod (oem freak :grin:), I have less to contribute on some posts than many of you guys probably do. Why are people assuming that Robin is on some kind of a personal mission for starting a new thread for this? Surely it's something which affects us all most of the time. Nowhere in this thread has Robin tried to defend any company, instead suggesting the issue of service is debated.
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To be fare the thread is not about a customer satisfaction survey its about Robin. He cleverly dresses it up that way, but the bottom line is he simply cant bare to see a bad word said about Milltek or VWR. Which is fine its his prerogative. what we are trying to get across is by doing this every time he actually makes trivial situations worse.
This whole thread is just a facade to try and detract from his compulsion to interfere when you mention them. :love:
Edit im off to bed. :drinking:
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If I recall correctly Robin , you ran your own company, worked very long hours and enjoyed limited leisure time prior to retiring.
I am assuming you have more leisure time now so have you found your tollerance / expectation of service different to perhaps when you were working under pressure and very busy? I'm just wondering if this has a significant impact on expectations?
....You recall correctly. Had my own limited company with a member of the Royal Family on the board, worked 24/7 from a studio next door to my home in Chelsea. I treated everybody, no matter who they were, in the same way I wished to be treated myself (exactly as maxitrol says). Customer service was always important and sometimes I was good at it and other times I wasn't but I was always honest about it.
I think it's the whole of life's experiences which forms someone's expectations but also mixed with upbringing and personal character. I really don't approve of the cut-throat business world and what it can instill in people, but what goes around comes around.
I've always been fairly laid back (drugs helped!) but have always enjoyed excellent relationships with people and companies - Afterall, all my clients were companies (including Horrids, Steve) and I worked with top management and workers.
I'm not much different now except what I view as more important in life.
:surprised: I can't believe some people's posts on this thread, some very harsh. I lurk quit a bit on this forum but as I don't mod (oem freak :grin:), I have less to contribute on some posts than many of you guys probably do. Why are people assuming that Robin is on some kind of a personal mission for starting a new thread for this? Surely it's something which affects us all most of the time. Nowhere in this thread has Robin tried to defend any company, instead suggesting the issue of service is debated.
....Well, that is how I saw it too, although I anticipated some people might unfortunately take umbrage (tee hee :evilgrin:). I do stand accused of "defending" a couple of companies in particular but I have no vested interests (contrary to what others insist on believing) and only seek fairness and balance.
Still, I'm old enough and ugly enough not to be too bothered by others - We all have our differing views - Who the feck cares anyway! It's actually quite funny at times and healthy to stir it up.
:happy2: :drinking:
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To be fare the thread is not about a customer satisfaction survey its about Robin. He cleverly dresses it up that way, but the bottom line is he simply cant bare to see a bad word said about Milltek or VWR. Which is fine its his prerogative. what we are trying to get across is by doing this every time he actually makes trivial situations worse.
This whole thread is just a facade to try and detract from his compulsion to interfere when you mention them. :love:
Edit im off to bed. :drinking:
....Now it's you who are talking utter bollox :grin:
That's simply not true! You just can't have bothered to read my posts fully. I'm not going to do a tedious Tuetonic_Tamer and present a lengthy dissection of quotes, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, matey, and say you're just taking the piss and trying to wind me up.
If not, you have an issue in modifying your views once you have decided something, whether you were right or wrong - Tut-tut.
Sleep well! :grin:
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but the bottom line is he simply cant bare to see a bad word said about Milltek or VWR.
As a relative infrequent poster to this forum, I must say that this is not far off my judgement of the user RedRobin.
I am all for brand whoring, but this has been taken to a new level.
Non-Executive Director perhaps? :signLOL:
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We can all get a bit passionate when we have a good experience and can't understand others that dont but it does happen.
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but the bottom line is he simply cant bare to see a bad word said about Milltek or VWR.
As a relative infrequent poster to this forum, I must say that this is not far off my judgement of the user RedRobin.
I am all for brand whoring, but this has been taken to a new level.
Non-Executive Director perhaps? :signLOL:
.... :laugh:
No, I'm just an enthusiast and, as such, I enthusiastically share my views (which you are free to take or leave) about various aspects of the Mk5 GTI and the various modifications and related subjects. When I'm enthusiastic about something/someone, I share it - Networking and sharing is what forums are about, yes?
I was under the impression that my posted reviews (in which I mention company names! Ooooo!) were liked and appreciated.
Oh, and I do help people too - Somehow I've collected 25 Thank You's to date.
But I'm not perfect. :smiley:
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We can all get a bit passionate when we have a good experience and can't understand others that dont but it does happen.
....YES!! :jumpmove: - Passion is exactly what it's all about!
Aren't we all here passionate about our Mk5 GTI's and caring about who else interferes with cares for them?
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a thread like this is never going to be pretty :ashamed:
....Too damned right!! :signLOL:
Perhaps I should bung my sig back to Eat Pussy!
To anyone who doesn't like that my sig has the name of a commercial company in it - Feck off!! :angry015: I enjoyed driving that race GTI and enjoy the memory of it which my sig pic brings.
:evilgrin:
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@ SteveP:
Oops! I see that I said in my original post that "It's a bit of a rant as well, and a few of you here may very well feel it's aimed at you", so sorry if you took that as being personally directed.
Although it truly wasn't personally directed at you (tough if, like TC, you don't believe me) part of the view you had expressed in the other thread was representative of views which I don't happen to agree with. But none of this is a fight - It's merely a discussion and I'm sure it will soon fade away as it becomes boring or even tiresome.
If you find the subject tiresome, then look at it another way - It's increased your site's traffic. Funny, Eat Pussy did that too.
:happy2:
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At J5BWS request his posts have been removed from this thread.
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Steve,
Sorry that you are taking my words so personally. I am allowed to express my views and opinions on this site aren't I? The subject is highly relevant to most people on this site - It relates to much of what is discussed here - Sourcing and buying car components and services.
I can only assume you are taking my words so personally because I have touched a nerve.
It really isn't my mission to help any particular companies - All my points are generic and any companies named are merely used as examples which we all know. You need to step back a moment and look at what I post on this site in another light.
I'm not referring to any particular experience of poor customer service you personally may have had in starting this topic and I can't help it if you want to see it that way. Perhaps it's just that you are relating it yourself to what I have written.
You've lost respect for me? Why? Because our views may be different? Because I don't meet your expectations in some area?
It is irrelevant if I take this post personally or not, I will deal with things how I see fit with the best interests of the site in mind only.
You are free, as any other member is, to post what you like on the site and as long as it falls within the site guidelines which you agreed to up on registering for an account.
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If you take a customers money, you play by the customers rules.
Big boys rules. Simple as.
Some companies would do well to realise that.
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Guys I take a less emotional and more process orientated view of customer service.
In the UK I believe we are still years behind the states. Companies including the above have still to work out the true correlation between customer satisfaction, loyalty and profits.
Often it can be a simple matter of designing and continually reviewing Internal processes and procedures to ensure and assure the whole customer experience.
Our companies don't think customer, they might say they do but when a customer has a problem or needs information quick they often do not have the infrastructure set up to cope with it. If companies want to enter the mass Market they have to ensure they can cope with all that demands. Else sorry tales of being stranded in France reverberate around the web for years to come.
.." if you can wow them with an unforgettable experience, you'll win unprecedented loyalty." check out management guru Tom Peters on the subject.
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It is irrelevant if I take this post personally or not, I will deal with things how I see fit with the best interests of the site in mind only.
You are free, as any other member is, to post what you like on the site and as long as it falls within the site guidelines which you agreed to up on registering for an account.
....Thankyou, Steve - I take my hat off to how calm and objective you are regarding what you consider to be in the best interests of this site - You are very consistent in that. Some other site Admins/Moderators would have been more draconian.
It's inevitable, if we are human, that words can be taken personally whether intended or not. If you say you've lost respect for me (as you did) I have no choice but to take that personally. I always seek to diffuse any resulting friction (hence my last post addressed to you) but will always defend my beliefs/opinions. But I still strive to remain open to modifying them.
I can only say that what I write on this site is only intended to contribute, share and network, even if it is occasionally provocative to some others - The only way I can stop that is by either not posting much at all or by not being my true self. I see nothing wrong with provoking debate/discussion which sometimes inevitably include a conflict of views - It's how we learn (if we are prepared to modify our views). I drive a bright red car remember!
[Rushes off to read the site guidelines to see what I agreed to! If I can find them.]
8)
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If you take a customers money, you play by the customers rules.
Big boys rules. Simple as.
Some companies would do well to realise that.
....Unfortunately that's often how things are - A potentially 'Us vs Them' attitude which is counter productive whichever party is wearing the boot.
I prefer to advocate an attitude which is more sympathetic by encouraging a working relationship which is sympathetic to the other. So that suppliers do their best to satisfy customers and customers do their best to understand the problems of suppliers.
Too many people start off with the attitude that they have sweated blood and tears for their money and that every supplier is a stealer. It's not relevant how someone acquires their money. In my past I've made thousands on just one phone call, hundreds gambling at The Playboy, and also worked nights at minimum wage - The degree of red carpet treatment I might get when I spend my money makes no difference.
Most companies do their utmost to satisfy their customers though some just pay lip service to it.
I don't advocate or support a hard-nosed, cold-hearted approach and think it's tragic that the Thatcher years promoted such attitudes (and I am a Tory at heart and have never voted Labour, or Liberal).
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You have to admit though - a degree of red carpet treatment when spending your hard earnt does go a long way in making that parting easier. Also comes down to leaving your pride and joy with someone who you feel will look after it like you do and not someone who's just doing there 'job'.
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Guys I take a less emotional and more process orientated view of customer service.
In the UK I believe we are still years behind the states. Companies including the above have still to work out the true correlation between customer satisfaction, loyalty and profits.
Often it can be a simple matter of designing and continually reviewing Internal processes and procedures to ensure and assure the whole customer experience.
Our companies don't think customer, they might say they do but when a customer has a problem or needs information quick they often do not have the infrastructure set up to cope with it. If companies want to enter the mass Market they have to ensure they can cope with all that demands. Else sorry tales of being stranded in France reverberate around the web for years to come.
.." if you can wow them with an unforgettable experience, you'll win unprecedented loyalty." check out management guru Tom Peters on the subject.
....Those companies across the pond in the good old U S of A who are good at customer service are exemplary and second to none. However, my experience is that they are not ALL like that at all. The good ones help the reputation of all though.
Yes, infrastructures do need setting up but they don't happen overnight.
All of us can learn by our mistakes (if we allow ourselves to). In fact, that's often how we learn and improve.
:happy2:
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Shame I'm posting on my phone, could have said a lot in this thread.
I've not read the thread to which this is linked, but my gearbox one is closely linked I'm sure.
I've said before, but will say again. I do find RR's comments to be very opinionated and sometimes blinkered and I see the same sentiments here as well.
It's a shame, but I do read a number of comments now wondering what the personal gain of the poster is as the comments almost seem to be given oblivious to the fact there are issues.
We all have different expectations, but unless there are favours to be done, everything costs money and a service of reasonable quality is deserved.
I've said enough for now, I can only read a few words at a time in the "posting box" on the phone, so I hope it makes sense!
Lee
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Lee, you above all people have the biggest axe to grind and im still amazed at your patience in all of this. If I were you I would have parked my motor up at VWR's door and jumped up and down until it was fixed.
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You have to admit though - a degree of red carpet treatment when spending your hard earnt does go a long way in making that parting easier.
Also comes down to leaving your pride and joy with someone who you feel will look after it like you do and not someone who's just doing there 'job'.
....Absolutely! We all love to be royally treated. But I don't have a problem parting with money when I like the results - That's what money is for (imo).
Leaving, and so trusting, my car with someone I know loves cars as much as I do is possibly more important than anything else. More important than the level of customer service, more important than how cheap it costs.
I trust all my regular suppliers (many more than just two unnamed companies :wink:) to test drive or deliver my car for example.
:happy2:
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Lee, you above all people have the biggest axe to grind and im still amazed at your patience in all of this. If I were you I would have parked my motor up at VWR's door and jumped up and down until it was fixed.
....That's as may be, but the intention of this topic I started was to discuss customer service generally and not stir up individual case issues with named references to particular companies which has been so extensively done elsewhere on this site already and tends to degenerate into too much friction and sparks. I hear the words "utter bollox!" resounding in the distance!
There's already a thread open on Lee's particular issue but I agree that he has exercised patience - Perhaps he believes it's the best way forward.
:happy2:
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I have personal experience of some of the best tuning Companies standards, and all I can say is that they would not survive in the aviation world.
one such company are improving their standards, and I take my hat off to them. :happy2:
I currently have an issue, that should be sorted soon, which was the result (for whatever reason) of very poor workmanship, which subsequently caused damage to my car.
I have had fairly good dialogue with the said company, which interestingly has got much better of late, the reason behind that improvement - I have my thoughts, but that is where they will stay.
There is a lot of smoke and mirrors with some companies, all that you see is not quite what you see. You pays your money and takes your choice, I have very high standards (TC be quiet!), and expect the same in return, wrong? Not in my eyes, i paid hard earned for my car, and expect it to be cared for as I would care for it.
In short, whatever the company and its other activities, IF you venture into the mainstream customer marketplace, you need good customer service, or it will permanently damage your standing.
The Customer does, and always will come first, they pay the bills.
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Shame I'm posting on my phone, could have said a lot in this thread.
I've not read the thread to which this is linked, but my gearbox one is closely linked I'm sure.
I've said before, but will say again. I do find RR's comments to be very opinionated and sometimes blinkered and I see the same sentiments here as well.
It's a shame, but I do read a number of comments now wondering what the personal gain of the poster is as the comments almost seem to be given oblivious to the fact there are issues.
We all have different expectations, but unless there are favours to be done, everything costs money and a service of reasonable quality is deserved.
I've said enough for now, I can only read a few words at a time in the "posting box" on the phone, so I hope it makes sense!
Lee
....Yes, it all makes sense, Lee :happy2:
Indeed we do all have differing expectations but we all wish for a service of reasonable quality, as you say.
This topic is NOT about yours or anyone else's individual issue - It's been prompted by known issues but is a general discussion (or intended to be!). Perhaps I should I add a huge heading in capital letters about this point!
You could call anyone opinionated who bothers to express their opinions strongly, and especially if you don't happen to agree. If you read my original post here (and I don't assume you either want to or have time to) I hope you will understand me better.
There are issues - Issues with my 'favourite' suppliers even! I don't know a single supplier which I can't criticise and point at issues.
Why do some people have to translate absolutely everything into terms of costing money. And, equally, why do some people think that nothing is done without a favour being expected. Hey! I'm the guy who gave Dave a free ride (except for food and 50% accommodation) to Nurburgring without expecting any return favours. It was my way of doing something for a guy who'd just done a hard tour of duty in a war zone. Don't worry, Dave, you're not my bitch! My attitude is that someone else may do me a favour in life sometime - Or not as the case may be.
Thanks for posting, Lee - Appreciated :happy2:
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What a thread............. ok my 2ps worth.......
As some previous posts have stated I like them don’t contribute to the site on a level compared to Steve, RR, VC, Hurdy, TC etc (sorry if iv forgotten anyone obvious) purely as I don’t have the knowledge on tuning or the funds to be able to do them YET! However id say my knowledge has improved loads since I first joined and that is down to all of your posts, I for one enjoy readings RR reviews on products, I also think it’s a great thing for the forum to have a member who gets these “perks†so he can share with all of us, which he does! I also think he’s quite fair when it comes to not slating any other vendor.
Maybe he is a little biased but if you had a good experience and a continued one of awesome products you may jump to there defense a bit. As long as he doesn’t slate other vendors products with out a true experience he’s only standing up for what he believes in.
The customer service OP is such an open ended discussion as peoples lives, demands, opinions are all different IMO. What i may deem acceptable maybe shocking or not acceptable in anothers eyes and vice versa.
Im quite a laid back guy, if I sent an email enquiring about a product it would be at the beginning of a thought/project so if it took 5 days to reply or even two weeks I would be ok with that as if I wanted an answer there and then I would have phoned them.
It’s a totally different matter though if there is a message saying we will reply with 48 hours, and they don’t for 2 weeks, that’s poor customer service. If I called and someone promised to call me back and didn’t, again this is poor customer service. They should also expect to loose custom and be slated because of this.
Companies struggle with growth and change, maybe this explains VWR, they should have waited until everything was set up before launching there product range.
As I said before though everyone’s expectations on time scales etc are going to be different, the end goal should be satisfaction whether you are spending £1 or £1,000,000.00
Just my 2ps worth
GROUP HUG :grouphug:
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What a thread............. ok my 2ps worth.......
As some previous posts have stated I like them don’t contribute to the site on a level compared to Steve, RR, VC, Hurdy, TC etc (sorry if iv forgotten anyone obvious) purely as I don’t have the knowledge on tuning or the funds to be able to do them YET! However id say my knowledge has improved loads since I first joined and that is down to all of your posts, I for one enjoy readings RR reviews on products, I also think it’s a great thing for the forum to have a member who gets these “perks†so he can share with all of us, which he does! I also think he’s quite fair when it comes to not slating any other vendor.
Maybe he is a little biased but if you had a good experience and a continued one of awesome products you may jump to there defense a bit. As long as he doesn’t slate other vendors products with out a true experience he’s only standing up for what he believes in.
....THANK YOU! :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:
Someone who understands me! Do you cook? I love pussy, will you marry me? Only joking! I do assure you! :grin:
The customer service OP is such an open ended discussion as peoples lives, demands, opinions are all different IMO. What i may deem acceptable maybe shocking or not acceptable in anothers eyes and vice versa.
Im quite a laid back guy, if I sent an email enquiring about a product it would be at the beginning of a thought/project so if it took 5 days to reply or even two weeks I would be ok with that as if I wanted an answer there and then I would have phoned them.
It’s a totally different matter though if there is a message saying we will reply with 48 hours, and they don’t for 2 weeks, that’s poor customer service. If I called and someone promised to call me back and didn’t, again this is poor customer service. They should also expect to loose custom and be slated because of this.
Companies struggle with growth and change, maybe this explains VWR, they should have waited until everything was set up before launching there product range.
As I said before though everyone’s expectations on time scales etc are going to be different, the end goal should be satisfaction whether you are spending £1 or £1,000,000.00
Just my 2ps worth
GROUP HUG :grouphug:
....I'd say your 2p is worth quite a lot.
I've wanted to avoid mentioning VWR by name because when I do so I get accused of all sorts of things. However, just as an example - Yes, I agree that ideally they may have done better to have waited. BUT, this would have probably meant a riskier investment before getting a feel for the non-racing market. This applies to any supplier expanding or entering a new market in these difficult economic times. As Sam Roach, their MD, has posted here: They are very aware indeed of their shortcomings and trying their best to make improvements. I don't believe that such changes happen overnight and it's entirely up to others if they can be satisfied or not. All I know is, that I am very satisfied. And for the record, I recieve no personal discount nor have any vested interest - I just enthusiastically support other genuine enthusiasts, which they are.
My father used to tell me that I could only try my best, and that's what I see happening. I know that if I had been a more hard-nosed cold-hearted character in my working life, I would be far richer now. However, without going into personal stuff, I do assure everyone here that there are more important things in life than standards of customer service and money. No apologies if that sounds opinionated - It's simply my experience of life. Take it or leave it.
:happy2: 8) :happy2:
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I'm a stubborn git, but I won't go so far as to cut my nose off to spite my face.
I've had rotten service from somewhere in the past: smashed windscreen, fitting of parts I'd not requested and then attempting to put me over a barrel to pay for them, knackered rear calipers from not using the right tool to wind them back... Mistakes and accidents happen, yes - but a "tough sh*t" or "prove it was us" attitude bitters the pill, even if I got them sorted in the end. And, sadly I could tell you a hundred other stories from people with similar experiences who'll never use them again either.
I don't name them on forums, because you don't burn your bridges. Money talks and if in the event of them having something I want a reasonable amount cheaper than anywhere else, I'll buy it - it cuts me up, and I avoid doing it at all costs, but I'm not stupid. However, a car of mine will never EVER go into their workshop again.
I'm not afraid to argue my point publically if I think I have been unfairly treated and it is in the interests of others to see how. I will not do it when it is unjustified to just get leverage by a forum jury - people have a perfectly good ability to ruin their own businesses and all comes out in time, they don't need a forum to do it for them. Facts rule - witch hunts don't.
Dealing with people is a simple 3 strikes and you're on my 'list' - 2 places very recently have failed to call me back, despite me chasing 3 times trying to give them my money. I always call, rather than email - that's a very flawed means of communication IMO, easily forgotten, impersonal and usually for no good reason gets people's backs up.
If you've got that much work on you can't cope with replying to people, employ more staff. If you can't be arsed replying to people, don't moan when you're going down the pan.
And finally going on to recommending people. I'll sing the praises of a company/product all day long - I will never defend them against somone else's complaint though. As soon as I see people taking a personal interest in something that has nothing to do with them directly, I get the impression (rightly or wrongly) that they have been 'bought off', and concequently they lose credibility in my eyes in terms of being relied upon for an honest opinion.
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And finally going on to recommending people. I'll sing the praises of a company/product all day long - I will never defend them against somone else's complaint though. As soon as I see people taking a personal interest in something that has nothing to do with them directly, I get the impression (rightly or wrongly) that they have been 'bought off', and concequently they lose credibility in my eyes in terms of being relied upon for an honest opinion.
....Yes, I can see that some people might easily interpret some of my posts as defending a favourite supplier against someone else's complaint. In truth, rightly or wrongly, I only ever seek to bring balance to issues IF, and only IF, my own experience has been different and not doing so might result in unfair bias and unjustified damage to reputation.
I do assure you that no-one has bought me off but it's of course it's up to others how they decide to judge my credibility or my honesty.
:happy2:
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Shame I'm posting on my phone, could have said a lot in this thread.
I've not read the thread to which this is linked, but my gearbox one is closely linked I'm sure.
I've said before, but will say again. I do find RR's comments to be very opinionated and sometimes blinkered and I see the same sentiments here as well.
It's a shame, but I do read a number of comments now wondering what the personal gain of the poster is as the comments almost seem to be given oblivious to the fact there are issues.
We all have different expectations, but unless there are favours to be done, everything costs money and a service of reasonable quality is deserved.
I've said enough for now, I can only read a few words at a time in the "posting box" on the phone, so I hope it makes sense!
Lee
....Yes, it all makes sense, Lee :happy2:
Indeed we do all have differing expectations but we all wish for a service of reasonable quality, as you say.
This topic is NOT about yours or anyone else's individual issue - It's been prompted by known issues but is a general discussion (or intended to be!). Perhaps I should I add a huge heading in capital letters about this point!
You could call anyone opinionated who bothers to express their opinions strongly, and especially if you don't happen to agree. If you read my original post here (and I don't assume you either want to or have time to) I hope you will understand me better.
There are issues - Issues with my 'favourite' suppliers even! I don't know a single supplier which I can't criticise and point at issues.
Why do some people have to translate absolutely everything into terms of costing money. And, equally, why do some people think that nothing is done without a favour being expected. Hey! I'm the guy who gave Dave a free ride (except for food and 50% accommodation) to Nurburgring without expecting any return favours. It was my way of doing something for a guy who'd just done a hard tour of duty in a war zone. Don't worry, Dave, you're not my bitch! My attitude is that someone else may do me a favour in life sometime - Or not as the case may be.
Thanks for posting, Lee - Appreciated :happy2:
The point above is the crux IMO, There will always be cock-ups, it is how we learn, and recover from these CU's that is the real issue. presuming you give the Co chance to rectify, as in my case.
I am happy with the way that the company are dealing with the issue, and cannot ask anymore. I could have posted up for the world to see, but wanted to give the company the oppurtunity to rectify the mistake.
I expect the best, and i am very careful about where i place an order.
We are afterall only human, I appreciate RR reviews/posts, but I am an individual, capable of thought, and i make my own mind up, and my experiences will directly affect my future thoughts.
4 years ago, i would not have touched my local dealer, but a change of management, and a change of direction within the dealership, and the return to real world values, of customer experience mean that i will continue to be acustomer of theirs.
Throughout the thread, is the message - we are all individuals, and please make your own mind up, the WWW is a very powerful tool, and positive and negative reviews can have a profound effect on business, never before have customer service reviews been so accessible.
:happy2:
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..the WWW is a very powerful tool, and positive and negative reviews can have a profound effect on business, never before have customer service reviews been so accessible.
:happy2:
....So true - The power of word-of-mouth.
This is exactly why I seek to balance negative by adding positive (and occasionally vica-versa), but ONLY when my experiences have been positive. I know that everyone will make up their own minds regardless of my contribution - That's how it should be.
[Now do you understand where I'm coming from with what you call my blind utter bollox defences of x and y suppliers etc, TC and SteveP and anyone else who thinks the same?]
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And finally going on to recommending people. I'll sing the praises of a company/product all day long - I will never defend them against somone else's complaint though. As soon as I see people taking a personal interest in something that has nothing to do with them directly, I get the impression (rightly or wrongly) that they have been 'bought off', and concequently they lose credibility in my eyes in terms of being relied upon for an honest opinion.
....Yes, I can see that some people might easily interpret some of my posts as defending a favourite supplier against someone else's complaint. In truth, rightly or wrongly, I only ever seek to bring balance to issues IF, and only IF, my own experience has been different and not doing so might result in unfair bias and unjustified damage to reputation.
I do assure you that no-one has bought me off but it's of course it's up to others how they decide to judge my credibility or my honesty.
:happy2:
It wasn't a direct go at you, Robin - there's plenty guilty of it.
You've got to learn to step back and stay out of it... that problem with Milltek for example where you were posting on their behalf, having discussed someone else's complaint was far and away the worst example I've seen. I know it's easy to feel emotionally attached, but unless you're being paid to deal with matters on their behalf, then it really is none of your business.
If you feel it is unjustified, the truth will always come out in time, these people are big money making outfits run by adults. They will always take action to defend themselves against lies on any scale, from discrediting the person correctly and rightly or by more extreme means - after all, everything posted on a public forum is perfectly acceptable evidence in a court of law.
If it is justified, the more people stay out of the mix and leave them to get on with resolving the matter, the better. You measure people on how they deal with problems, not how they do things right.
For what it's worth, I don't think you've been 'bought off', prehaps a little blinkered and needing taking with a pinch of salt on occasion, but certainly not dishonest. I just think you're too nice for your own good and take things like this personally, when you shouldn't.
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What Tony said :)
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^^^^
Thankyou, tony_d :happy2:
I didn't think you were having a go at me but it was a good opportunity for me to say things I wanted to say.
Just like any company, I have a reputation too and don't like to be misjudged unfairly or wrongly.
I take your advice onboard. Now, where did I leave the salt? :grin:
:drinking:
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I have personal experience of some of the best tuning Companies standards, and all I can say is that they would not survive in the aviation world.
So whats the answer regulation? Apples and oranges here mate - it'll be form 1's for coilies.
regulation is the only way to standardise customer service and maintain standards, even in aviation where its regulated to death there are places where I wouldn't take an aircraft .
Back in the real world we self regulate - its called voting with your feet, I really dont see the point of the thread.
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..I really dont see the point of the thread.
....50 replies and over 350 views suggest otherwise.
Anyway, the secret of a satisfactory relationship and good service is...........
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi22.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2FEatPussy.jpg&hash=f08aad625c93448e14a939abac36bf7e9865b4ee)
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Didn't ford try to extend their Quality Management System to their Customer Service ha ha..in the uk at least clearly they failed :-)
it's not rocket science, it's not even brain surgery ffs! Just get in touch fast and keep the customer updated even if it's bad or no news!!!
Now... Don't get us started on the effing sales twats who NEVER contact you back!
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..I really dont see the point of the thread.
Anyway, the secret of a satisfactory relationship and good service is...........
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi22.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2FEatPussy.jpg&hash=f08aad625c93448e14a939abac36bf7e9865b4ee)
Now thats a good thread title. The number of views and replys means nothing..... dont confuse saying something with having something worthwhile to say. Your idea of customer service is more than likely totally different then those of mine - its an individual thing.
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..I really dont see the point of the thread.
Anyway, the secret of a satisfactory relationship and good service is...........
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi22.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2FEatPussy.jpg&hash=f08aad625c93448e14a939abac36bf7e9865b4ee)
Now thats a good thread title. The number of views and replys means nothing..... dont confuse saying something with having something worthwhile to say. Your idea of customer service is more than likely totally different then those of mine - its an individual thing.
....Surely you're not suggesting that some of us here post utter bollox! :wink: :grin: :evilgrin:
I agree - Expectations are a very individual thing. Also how you choose to relate with/to/above/under others is individual.
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To be fare the thread is not about a customer satisfaction survey its about Robin. He cleverly dresses it up that way, but the bottom line is he simply cant bare to see a bad word said about Milltek or VWR. Which is fine its his prerogative. what we are trying to get across is by doing this every time he actually makes trivial situations worse.
This whole thread is just a facade to try and detract from his compulsion to interfere when you mention them. :love:
Edit im off to bed. :drinking:
Hmm, in your opinion Top Cat.
I've been involved in many many threads on other forums and to be fair Robin makes valuable and accurate contribution. He states his opinion and defends it as he has done in this and other related threads. I don't see why this is (in my humble opinion) misconstrued as a thread about Robin and some kind of personal mission. :confused:
OK, I agree that Robin perhaps does defend these companies strongly but I see this more as brand loyalty and the "compulsion to interefere" you refer to as genuine help / support / personal opinion. Many people will argue politics in a similar way.
I do understand why this thread has attracted these comments but trying look subjectively at all this, I find this an interesting thread as someone who would expect a high degree of customer service / support should I mod my car and use any of the said tuners / suppliers. It's interesting that in recent years garages have been trying to improve customer service after years of perceived bad reputation yet here we are with specialist companies with great reputations for developing products that work well (most the time!) are prepared to let themselves down on the service front. In some cases all that is required is to employ a single person, say £17k per year to manage customer contact / complaints. It's always nice to know your complaint or request is being considered even if an immediate answer / resolution is not possible. :smiley:
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To be fare the thread is not about a customer satisfaction survey its about Robin. He cleverly dresses it up that way, but the bottom line is he simply cant bare to see a bad word said about Milltek or VWR. Which is fine its his prerogative. what we are trying to get across is by doing this every time he actually makes trivial situations worse.
This whole thread is just a facade to try and detract from his compulsion to interfere when you mention them. :love:
Edit im off to bed. :drinking:
Hmm, in your opinion Top Cat.
I've been involved in many many threads on other forums and to be fair Robin makes valuable and accurate contribution. He states his opinion and defends it as he has done in this and other related threads. I don't see why this is (in my humble opinion) misconstrued as a thread about Robin and some kind of personal mission. :confused:
OK, I agree that Robin perhaps does defend these companies strongly but I see this more as brand loyalty and the "compulsion to interefere" you refer to as genuine help / support / personal opinion. Many people will argue politics in a similar way.
I do understand why this thread has attracted these comments but trying look subjectively at all this, I find this an interesting thread as someone who would expect a high degree of customer service / support should I mod my car and use any of the said tuners / suppliers. It's interesting that in recent years garages have been trying to improve customer service after years of perceived bad reputation yet here we are with specialist companies with great reputations for developing products that work well (most the time!) are prepared to let themselves down on the service front. In some cases all that is required is to employ a single person, say £17k per year to manage customer contact / complaints. It's always nice to know your complaint or request is being considered even if an immediate answer / resolution is not possible. :smiley:
Tough job being a moderator isnt it.
We all have different levels of expectations of service from one company to another. Again i work for a Leading Television company and the customer ALWAYS comes first. It is a very sad state of affairs today that companys ARE having to cost cut and would appear cut corners whenever and wherever possible Without hoping not to tread on someones toes.
This Topic has no right or wrong answers and can rumble on for ever.Perhaps its best left for the O.P to close with his own thoughts and be locked down afterwards (again hopefully without upsetting anyone wanting to talk about customer service expectations.)
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OMG :scared: What have I just read?!!!
I'll have to be particularly blunt on this one.
Poor service/workmanship pisses me off and I tend to vote with my feet and take my wallet elsewhere.
There are plenty of companies that can supply me, some I've tried and some I've yet to try. I would never dream of slating a business I haven't used, but I will name and shame those I have had poor dealings with and by the same respect praise those I have been happy with - It is my goddam prerogative!
Now the "other" issue
I've always found Robin to be fair in his approach to the subjects he posts in/on/about. I don't always agree, but like most people on here I hope they can at least see the point he is trying to get across and why. A thread like this, following on from another can be seen as inflammatory, but that is most likely the polar opposite of what Robin is trying to do. I saw this thread as diffusing an issue on another thread to bring it to an independant area for discussion on a different level.
:grouphug:
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Didn't your mother teach you that you'll always get more from using honey than vinegar?
No.
Utter bollocks
Please don't swear.
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Now the "other" issue
I've always found Robin to be fair in his approach to the subjects he posts in/on/about. I don't always agree, but like most people on here I hope they can at least see the point he is trying to get across and why.
A thread like this, following on from another can be seen as inflammatory, but that is most likely the polar opposite of what Robin is trying to do. I saw this thread as diffusing an issue on another thread to bring it to an independant area for discussion on a different level.
:grouphug:
....Exactly! I will accept being accused of being provocative (though not provocatively dressed) but it was not my intention to be inflammatory (much as I love fire). Diffusing friction while standing up for myself, moving it for further discussion while also respecting the original topic of the other thread was certainly my conscious intention.
:drinking:
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This Topic has no right or wrong answers and can rumble on for ever.Perhaps its best left for the O.P to close with his own thoughts and be locked down afterwards (again hopefully without upsetting anyone wanting to talk about customer service expectations.)
....I think it will rumble on to die its own natural death in due course without it being locked. :happy2:
But I do think and hope that whether it's been interpreted as tiresome, brand-whoring, boring, personal, or provocative, etc, it has brought out a varied and very valid exchange of views and discussion relevant to our beloved GTI's.
:grouphug:
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Well, ive just read this all, without reading the other threads.
and its probably best if i stay out but...
I have noticed Robin does like to push home his positive experience. How you take that is up to the individual. I am realistic enough to believe not all suppliers are perfect.
Anyways...theres no point discussing my opinion because it seems there has been some resolve after tony_danza.
And im pleased to see robin has taken on board Mike's word.
Yes Robin can ram things home a bit...but he has taken on board what has been on this thread...and thats more than what can be said for most people on this earth.
Surely thats worth a lot right?
And we can move on with no love lost?
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....I think it will rumble on to die its own natural death in due course without it being locked. :happy2:
But I do think and hope that whether it's been interpreted as tiresome, brand-whoring, boring, personal, or provocative, etc, it has brought out a varied and very valid exchange of views and discussion relevant to our beloved GTI's.
:grouphug:
The thread will be removed later today as it isn't of any benefit to the site or current/potential future members.
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Anyone new (to forums and the internet) reading in would think, "WTF", and "Isn't this a hostile place to be?".
I, on the other hand, are used to forum politics and tbqfh....DILLIGAF!!! :signLOL:
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....I think it will rumble on to die its own natural death in due course without it being locked. :happy2:
But I do think and hope that whether it's been interpreted as tiresome, brand-whoring, boring, personal, or provocative, etc, it has brought out a varied and very valid exchange of views and discussion relevant to our beloved GTI's.
:grouphug:
The thread will be removed later today as it isn't of any benefit to the site or current/potential future members.
.... :signLOL: Reading this caused me to laugh out loud - Literally!
So open discussion of customer service etc is of no benefit to this site's members?
I haven't seen any real hostility - Just a few feathers ruffled and almost everyone has been very well behaved in their use of language.
Byeeeeeeeeee!.................
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Its not that it isn't beneficial, its just not directly MK5 related. Maybe move to 'Random Chat'?
I'm not sticking up for RR but it's lame to delete it. Its a heated discussion, people have a difference of opinions and that keeps life interesting.
I'm not jumping on the band wagon and having a pop and also haven't noticed RR being a 'fan boy'
Now kiss and make up :signLOL: :grouphug: :drinking:
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^^^ If it was a discussion thread then it would remain, however to quote Robin's own words: -
....
Following discussion in a thread which became very off-topic, I thought it best to start a new topic (which will doubtless meander off-topic itself in the usual human way). It's a bit of a rant as well, and a few of you here may very well feel it's aimed at you.
Therefore it goes.
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....
You're the 'boss', Steve. But is all "ranting", however mild as the rant factor in mine was (imo), banned on this site then?
Whatever my original words, and in spite of them, it surely has been a discussion which has interested quite a few people as evidenced by their posts. Agreed that some feel differently of course but such differences in opinions occur often and in many threads.
Are you big enough to reconsider?
I'll modify my original post if it helps. :smiley:
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Unfortunately I haven't read the original thread that spawned this but I bet it made for interesting reading!
Surely customer service, good or bad is relative to the individual experiencing it? So many factors can alter how a person perceives something so whats good for one might not be so good for the other.
In my experience any company which deals with other people should always under promise and over deliver. If your told something will be sorted in 2 days and it takes a week you'd get upset. If you were told it would be sorted in a week and it took 2 days you'd be chuffed! If companies stuck by this far less people would be upset by poor service.
Without taking sides or sticking up for anyone/dissing anyone I agree it should be moved for the benefit of anyone who decides to join the site in the near future. There's some valid points in there but its all been tarnished by a few remarks/responses and for those people might I suggest Jermemy Kyle? :signLOL:
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Unfortunately I haven't read the original thread that spawned this but I bet it made for interesting reading!
.... :grin: It possibly depends on your point of view :grin:
Without taking sides or sticking up for anyone/dissing anyone I agree it should be moved for the benefit of anyone who decides to join the site in the near future. There's some valid points in there but its all been tarnished by a few remarks/responses and for those people might I suggest Jermemy Kyle? :signLOL:
....If the big man reconsiders, it will need cleaning up with some of the posts removed of course.
8)
Btw, I think most people would prefer Kelly to Jeremy Kyle! :happy2:
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Tough job being a moderator isnt it.
Not at all Phil, on here its the easiest thing in the world. Granted trying to organize meets or tickets or answer lots of PM's can be a pain sometimes, but only because it distracts me from looking at great pictures of our beloved GTI :love:
I wouldn't swap it for the world. This thread has been the only real twist in getting on close to a year. To be honest we or i have made a mistake getting on the inside of disagreements or siding with a view point, when everything i learn't from the other place told me that you just cannot do that as a moderator, for that alone i apologize. :sad:
In my defense i am only human and when you get a bad taste in your mouth sometimes its a natural reaction to spit it out.
We spend a lot of time guiding this place in a direction that takes it away from this type of thread. And although its only one, and will be forgotten about soon enough it still makes me sad.
It 100 % confirms to me though that we are correct in keeping sponsors at bay, because as soon as it goes away from us lot and we get involved in supporting companies or championing our re-map providers or what ever then it just becomes messy.
My final say on the actual topic, :fighting2: is that: Mike Tony danza's 2 separate posts from a individual point of view where spot on, and he put the words together perfectly. :smiley: As individuals i hope we all form our own view point from this.
I certainly dont think the thread should be locked or moved by anyone. Maybe just a warning in the title that it makes for bloody painful reading, and you really wish you hadn't wasted 10 mins of your life in this way. :drinking:
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so where's the thread that SteveP refers to?
Need to have a read!!!! :happy2:
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This thread has been the only real twist in getting on close to a year. To be honest we or i have made a mistake getting on the inside of disagreements or siding with a view point, when everything i learn't from the other place told me that you just cannot do that as a moderator, for that alone i apologize. :sad:
In my defense i am only human and when you get a bad taste in your mouth sometimes its a natural reaction to spit it out.
We spend a lot of time guiding this place in a direction that takes it away from this type of thread. And although its only one, and will be forgotten about soon enough it still makes me sad.
It 100 % confirms to me though that we are correct in keeping sponsors at bay, because as soon as it goes away from us lot and we get involved in supporting companies or championing our re-map providers or what ever then it just becomes messy.
My final say on the actual topic, :fighting2: is that: Mike Tony danza's 2 separate posts from a individual point of view where spot on, and he put the words together perfectly. :smiley: As individuals i hope we all form our own view point from this.
I certainly dont think the thread should be locked or moved by anyone. Maybe just a warning in the title that it makes for bloody painful reading, and you really wish you hadn't wasted 10 mins of your life in this way. :drinking:
....Much Respect from me for your words above, TC!
I only need to ask you to try to understand that in my reporting/reviewing various products or services I am of course bound to allow my enthusiasm for them to come through. This shouldn't be a problem because people can and will make up their own minds.
I repeat that I do not have vested interests (as fortunately many people here realise).
As I've suggested earlier, if a Mod here wants to PM me, I can edit part of my OP and this thread can also be cleaned up (particularly in these later posts).
It's up to you guys.............
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I wouldn't be sad to see this deleted - all it has been is a chance for spleens to be vented to a varying degree and to discuss what we already know.. that some places have worse customer service than we expect of them.
Instead of moaning about it on here, how about we talk to them direct and help them either move forward or confirm the fact they're not worth dealing with.
This is the kind of topic to be discussed in person, some things just don't work on forums as you can't read people and misinterpretation leads to farce.
Peace and love people, peace and love.
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Amen to that ^^^^. I say shoot it and put it out of its misery :fighting:
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My 2p worth... I still think Revo customer service was crap :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
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^^^^
*cough*
And I still think that this thread was worthwhile - At the very least it tested the site's Moderators (although this was not the intention) and hopefully we have ALL learnt something by our various mistakes.
You can't please all the people all the time.
8)
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^^^^
*cough*
And I still think that this thread was worthwhile - At the very least it tested the site's Moderators (although this was not the intention) and hopefully we have ALL learnt something by our various mistakes.
You can't please all the people all the time.
8)
:indifferent:
Not tested me for starters, have just chosen not to enter into what I see as a pointless debate. Life feels far to short for me to be worrying about such tedia!
As you were! :rolleye:
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:indifferent:
Not tested me for starters, have just chosen not to enter into what I see as a pointless debate. Life feels far to short for me to be worrying about such tedia!
As you were! :rolleye:
....But this site is full of topics which are pointless - As is every car forum - Besides what's pointless to one person isn't to another.
Anyroadup.......... :indifferent:
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:indifferent:
Not tested me for starters, have just chosen not to enter into what I see as a pointless debate. Life feels far to short for me to be worrying about such tedia!
As you were! :rolleye:
....But this site is full of topics which are pointless - As is every car forum - Besides what's pointless to one person isn't to another.
Anyroadup.......... :indifferent:
99% of my posts could be conceived as pointless Robin, but I know when to call it a day! :wink:
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99% of my posts could be conceived as pointless Robin, but I know when to call it a day! :wink:
....That's something perhaps I should learn to do but it's not my nature! I tend to respond to what I read in other people's posts, especially if I'm challenged. But also in a sometimes vain attempt to help.
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99% of my posts could be conceived as pointless Robin, but I know when to call it a day! :wink:
....That's something perhaps I should learn to do but it's not my nature! I tend to respond to what I read in other people's posts, especially if I'm challenged. But also in a sometimes vain attempt to help.
:grouphug:
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and on that note..........
?:wink:
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^^^^
:drinking: VC
Time for me to lock the thread 8)
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Haven't read much of this thread, but I dropped my GTi off at Richard Alexander in Huddersfield this morning and was greeted at my car by someone with an umbrella, who said "Good morning Mr Parker". I think that's pretty good!
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Did he then drive off in your car ... hustle style :laugh:
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Ok, as most of you will have seen we have had some "discussions" on the site lately relating to customer service standards.
I firstly I wish to apologies for elements of my relies to previous threads that could have been seen to be on a personal level rather than the unbiased input that is required from a forum administrator.
I have purposely taken a bit of time out to clear my head and was hopeful that things would have settled down and the site could continue to run as well as it previously did.
It however appears that this isn't the case and that some people still have some grievances given comments posted in one of the related threads.
We have questioned ourselves over this and have conclued, have we as a site admin/moderation team learnt from this experience, Yes. but do we feel we were wrong in our intentions on dealing with this situation 100% no.
I want to take this opportunity to reiterate what this site is about and how the team involved in the site intend to run it.
This site's aim is to be a community with the key objectives of providing a free resource of useful information for it's members and other car enthusiasts while being easy to use and enjoyable to be part of the site.
As part of this we have actively chosen to not take on sponsorship or any form of financial support from any commercial organisations (despite a lot of offers) and to start with funded the site ourselves and more recently from the very generous donations of our members :happy2:
A key part of this decision is to allow the site to be free from all commercial ties and to allow us to choose when and where we get involved with companies where we can see a true benefit to the site and not just the companies getting some free advertising.
So when topics come up where any organisation is discussed we will always try to ensure this is fair and balanced, and if required we will question any member that may appear to be unnecessarily commenting on a thread/topic. This is to ensure the balance on the site is maintained for all parties, we will obviously not allow anything is that is blatantly false or incorrect that could damage a companies reputation.
As with everything on the site if you see a post you believe isn't balanced or fair to a company or individual please use the report to moderator function and one of the team will respond as soon as possible :fighting2:
We would also like to thank those who took time to send us their feedback (both the positive and negative) directly via email, PM’s and phone.
We will not be editing or moderating this thread any further and it will now once more be locked.
We sincerely hope everyone can move on from this situation and continue to help building the site in to the great community we strongly believe it can become.
Kind Regards,
Steve & The Mk5GolfGTI.co.uk Team :grouphug: