MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => How to Guides / Troubleshooting => Topic started by: jonnyc on July 18, 2009, 09:00:01 pm
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Hey all..
Ok, so collected the car (private sale) and drove home.. Half way back I had a CEL flash up for 5 seconds, it did this twice then went away.. Now a bit of a description as to whats happening..
The car fires up fairly quickly (a little longer than usual, but about 3 cranks) but it runs terrible, on idle it has a very heavy misfire.. It will rev up but again with a big misfire and lots of pops from the exhaust etc..
I have a CEL on the dash but the codes are all relating to coolant which as far as I know the engine hasn't overheated.. Plenty of water in the engine and oil level is fine
3 codes stored..
Rear heater core temp sensor (G154) Sporadic 001- Upper limit exceeded
Coolant temperature sensor at radiator outlet (G83) Sporadic 001- Upper limit exceeded
Coolant temperature sensor at engine outlet Sporadic 001- Upper limit exceeded
So this is where it gets interesting..
I pulled the coil packs and swapped them all with coil packs I know are working from another 2.0T FSI car.. No difference made what so ever..
So then I thought it must be the plugs..
They all came out looking clean apart from cylinder 4, which is very wet with what smells like fuel..
I swapped the plugs too, still no difference, so now im running on plugs and coil packs from my other car which I know are all fine, and its made no difference..
Im trying to think what it is, seems that there is no spark/ignition on cylinder 4, but what could be causing this?
My only thoughts was something to do with the connector that plugs onto the coil pack??
Any help would be appreciated!!
Thanks
Jonny
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sh*t the bed, can you not check the line voltage to the plug and check it against the supply the other three plugs are receiving to make sure its arcing.
Might be worth going over all the connections with some contact cleaner to remove any dirt, water etc to make sure there are no shorts etc.
I'm not very clued up on car electrics by any means but 9 out of 10 electrical problems at work on the engines are down to sh*tty connections.
Is the car not under warranty?
Might be worth ringing the bloke or gal you brought it off to make sure he knows something you don't.
Luke
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Take it for a spin and try do some logs to check all is doing what it should
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sh*t the bed, can you not check the line voltage to the plug and check it against the supply the other three plugs are receiving to make sure its arcing.
Might be worth going over all the connections with some contact cleaner to remove any dirt, water etc to make sure there are no shorts etc.
I'm not very clued up on car electrics by any means but 9 out of 10 electrical problems at work on the engines are down to sh*tty connections.
Is the car not under warranty?
Might be worth ringing the bloke or gal you brought it off to make sure he knows something you don't.
Luke
Good idea, yeah I thought initially that it was something a lot more serious in the engine but it seems like its electric, not that it makes it any better.. Just there a bitch to find the problem most of the time!
I haven't heard of anything like this before so trust it to be on my car! :sad1:
Take it for a spin and try do some logs to check all is doing what it should
Need to do some logs of it when its on idle.. It hardly runs so driving it about at the min isnt really an option.. :confused:
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I would have though a connection issue with the coil pack would throw an open circuit error TBH :confused:
Could you try with the coil pack on cyl 4 disconnected to see if it does throw an error?
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How old is the car and how many miles has done? And I am sure on vag com if you go into engine u can check for missfires and also do a readyness check to make sure all things are working as they should but do this test without the engine on, and you can also check each of the cylinders for missfires and also check the coils with the engine running
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Could it be down to the inlet Mani sticking as this can make them missfire
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Perhaps a quick compression test, compare with the 3 good cylinders to rule out mechanical damage on no.4 ?
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I would have though a connection issue with the coil pack would throw an open circuit error TBH :confused:
Could you try with the coil pack on cyl 4 disconnected to see if it does throw an error?
I did go through them disconnecting to see, with no.4 unplugged it ran better than with it plugged in.. With each of the other 3 unplugged it was running even worse (probs only on 2 cylinders)
I have only had it on a code reader, and not Vagcom, but to be fair they should see the same things..??
How old is the car and how many miles has done? And I am sure on vag com if you go into engine u can check for missfires and also do a readyness check to make sure all things are working as they should but do this test without the engine on, and you can also check each of the cylinders for missfires and also check the coils with the engine running
07 and 35k.. I have done a readiness check, all was ok..
Need to do some much deeper digging..
Could it be down to the inlet Mani sticking as this can make them missfire
Possibly, never heard of this before, dont fancy removing the inlet manifold myself to be honest, dont know how this would make just one cylinder not fire??
Perhaps a quick compression test, compare with the 3 good cylinders to rule out mechanical damage on no.4 ?
I need that doing yes, I really hope its not, but I think there is a chance its done a piston / ring..
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I'd just take it into Audi on Monday matey, save yourself a load of stress.
I might sound quite negative towards it by saying that but that’s what I'd personally do with it being under warranty.
Luke
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I'd just take it into Audi on Monday matey, save yourself a load of stress.
I might sound quite negative towards it by saying that but that’s what I'd personally do with it being under warranty.
Luke
Yeah, could well be the best way mate..
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That's not good at all!! :sad1:
If it does turn out to be a Piston/ring, you have to look on the bright side and get the forged rods in there whilst it is opened up to repair it. :happy2:
Hope it isn't though and ends up as an easy fix for you. :smiley:
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That's not good at all!! :sad1:
If it does turn out to be a Piston/ring, you have to look on the bright side and get the forged rods in there whilst it is opened up to repair it. :happy2:
Hope it isn't though and ends up as an easy fix for you. :smiley:
Well I did that that haha.. Arrgh.. Just P*ssed me off because I cant drive it!
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Could it be down to the inlet Mani sticking as this can make them missfire
Possibly, never heard of this before, dont fancy removing the inlet manifold myself to be honest, dont know how this would make just one cylinder not fire??
I had the inlet manifold replaced under warranty when my GTI developed a misfire so could be this! Was only misfiring on cylinder 1 aswell!
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Hope you get it sorted Jonny... surely the seller must have known about the fault :fighting: At least its still under warranty.
Sorry couldn't be of any help though :chicken:
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Hope you get it sorted Jonny... surely the seller must have known about the fault :fighting: At least its still under warranty.
Sorry couldn't be of any help though :chicken:
Thanks mate..
Got the borescope going in tomorrow to have a look around.. If thats inconclusive then a cylinder leak down test.. Then its going to be head off, as im pretty sure there is no/not enough compression on cylinder one..
Im really hoping that its a sticky valve, but that would be easy and relatively cheap to fix.. So its probably a melted piston and a score block.. ARRRGGHHHH...
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Jonny, if you could get your hands on an Oscilloscope you could scope the primary winding of the ignition coil. This will tell you alot about whats going on. A large induced voltage shown on the screen will confirm that your getting good compression and that the coil is doing its job (the higher the compression the more voltage thats induced). also from this you can see the spark duration, switched earth from the ecu and main feed for the coil. I dont think that it will be the main feed for the coil as they all share the same feed.
All this aside, a coolant temp sensor will make the car turn over more on crank and on some cases cause a missfire. Check out the voltage going to this (should be 5v) at the plug (unplugged from sensor) and plugged in with ambient temp around 20'c' a voltage of around 3.6v.
Hope you get to the bottom of it.
Iain
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Jonny, if you could get your hands on an Oscilloscope you could scope the primary winding of the ignition coil. This will tell you alot about whats going on. A large induced voltage shown on the screen will confirm that your getting good compression and that the coil is doing its job (the higher the compression the more voltage thats induced). also from this you can see the spark duration, switched earth from the ecu and main feed for the coil. I dont think that it will be the main feed for the coil as they all share the same feed.
All this aside, a coolant temp sensor will make the car turn over more on crank and on some cases cause a missfire. Check out the voltage going to this (should be 5v) at the plug (unplugged from sensor) and plugged in with ambient temp around 20'c' a voltage of around 3.6v.
Hope you get to the bottom of it.
Iain
Thanks for that.. I now know what it is.. Unfortunately a large hole in no.1 piston.. So that would explain it, its what I first thought but didnt want to believe it really! Now the head needs to come off to check for damage to the bore, if thats ok then its just a case of building the engine, if its scored, then it means a new block! Not good news..
The thing is now I need to know why it has this problem and what has caused it as I cant have this happen again!
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bollox mate thats not good :sad1: could it have been lack of oil as i bet it would use lots of the stuff and has the last owner looked after the car?
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Thats a bit of an @rse Jonny, its strange that bigandy's was cylinder 1 too, I wonder if theres something in it or just a coincidence :sad1:
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Thats a bit of an @rse Jonny, its strange that bigandy's was cylinder 1 too, I wonder if theres something in it or just a coincidence :sad1:
I would expect just a coincidence to be honest.. The problem is that if its taken the block with it! There 2.5k from Audi, then 1k for bits to put inside, and a couple of grand for labour.. Honestly, buying this car is the worst thing I have ever done!
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PM sent Jonny :happy2:
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there is one option but its on your drive :ashamed:
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sh*t the bed dude, surely you should be able to get it all done under warranty?
Well you'd like to think.....
Luke
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there is one option but its on your drive :ashamed:
Lol, dont think so.. :grin:
sh*t the bed dude, surely you should be able to get it all done under warranty?
Well you'd like to think.....
Luke
Engine has a big turbo fitted, different injectors etc.. They would just laugh at me I think, could be worth a go I guess..
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there is one option but its on your drive :ashamed:
Lol, dont think so.. :grin:
sh*t the bed dude, surely you should be able to get it all done under warranty?
Well you'd like to think.....
Luke
Engine has a big turbo fitted, different injectors etc.. They would just laugh at me I think, could be worth a go I guess..
Is trying to get hold of standard parts not a option and down right lieing to them about the vehilces past. Then sell the parts on after it might cost you a couple of hundred in depreciation on the parts but a hell of a lot cheaper in the long run.
I'm sure you know enought people in the trade to get a few favours.
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Gutted for you jonny :sad:
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sorry to hear that jonny. not good news at all. surely that must have been a heat issue due to lack of oil maybe?
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sorry to hear that jonny. not good news at all. surely that must have been a heat issue due to lack of oil maybe?
Well put it this way, I drove the car home 60miles and its melted a piston.. I was in torrential rain all the way back taking it very steady.. So its not me, the car was probably already goosed.. But proving that is going to be the problem
Vag com showed 3 coolant temp warnings, personally, I think its either got very hot, and then been topped up with water and quickly sold on, or ran with hardly any oil in it, topped up and nothing has been said..
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that sounds about it to me mate :sad1: have u had a chat with the old owner?
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that sounds about it to me mate :sad1: have u had a chat with the old owner?
I think I'd be doing that :innocent:
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Might be worth a quick look.
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_world/consumer_affairs/buying_second_hand_vehicles.htm (http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_world/consumer_affairs/buying_second_hand_vehicles.htm)
Gives a bit of information on your rights but you may well up going in a never ending cycle.
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Might be worth a quick look.
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_world/consumer_affairs/buying_second_hand_vehicles.htm (http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_world/consumer_affairs/buying_second_hand_vehicles.htm)
Gives a bit of information on your rights but you may well up going in a never ending cycle.
Seems I certainly have a case, but I would rather avoid that way of resolving things, its not nice and I dont have time to be honest..
Thanks for the help everyone, not a great position to be in at the moment but hopefully I can get it sorted soon as and get the car on the road.. Dont think I can even count the drive home!
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a 60 mile drive home will certainly not have had any effect! it seems to me this car has already been goosed and sold on!
id stick to my guns and say a steady drive home is no way the cause of whats happend!
gimme me a bell, we'll take the shot guns and camp outside! ;)
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this is really bad news :( is there no way you could take the turbo off the ed30 for a bit just to get the s3 to the garage and covered under warranty??
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Not very good news :sad1:
Would be worth inspecting the damage to try to get an idea of the cause. You say it has big turbo and injectors so it will have been re-mapped.
Look for mechanical type damage, cracks or just general broken parts (eg the part of the piston that separates the rings) is more than likely excessive boost pressure.
Melting type damage or lots of pitting would usually suggest too much ignition timing and this tends to be concentrated round the plug area.
Once the piston is out your mechanic will be able to spot if anything out of the ordinary has been happening
Cylinders are suprisingly tough so unless its thrown a serious fit then that will probably be ok.
Also when the head is off check for signs of a damaged/bent conrod. When the crank is in a certain position all 4 pistons should be the same distance down the cylinder. If you've got any differences the rod is suspect.
Im not too familiar with the VAG 2.0 FSI but on some vehicles when messing with injectors its quite easy to nick a seal or pop them out leaving any excess fuel in the lines to spill into the cylinders. This then sits on top of the piston untill you turn it on the starter then the engine hydraulics causing damage. When swapping injectors it's always advisable to whip out all the plugs and give it a spin on the starter to clear any fuel that may have entered the cylinder.
Just a few ideas, hope you sort it
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Get the head off and have a look,hopefully just scored the bores,so rebore drop in some forged pistons and rods .Nightmare either way but at least make it stronger .
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This is terrible, sorry to hear it. I know what its like buying a car when the engine goes pop after buying it.
Did you test drive the car first? Sorry if its already been mentioned.
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Get the head off and have a look,hopefully just scored the bores,so rebore drop in some forged pistons and rods .Nightmare either way but at least make it stronger .
My worry with going over bore is that it could run hot with there being less space between the combustion chambers and the water jackets etc??
This is terrible, sorry to hear it. I know what its like buying a car when the engine goes pop after buying it.
Did you test drive the car first? Sorry if its already been mentioned.
Yeah, had a good test drive, but that was 10 days before I collected it, so anything could have happened in that time..
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Plenty of meat available for a 0.5mm overbore,you'd be mad to put drop-ins on a scored bore with a light hone.
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Plenty of meat available for a 0.5mm overbore,you'd be mad to put drop-ins on a scored bore with a light hone.
I meant if there was no scoring, obviously I would re-bore if there was scoring :confused:
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If you have cracked/holed a piston it will be fubar'd.Who is doing the engine build?
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If you have cracked/holed a piston it will be fubar'd.Who is doing the engine build?
I haven't 100% decided yet, there are a fair few options.. Sub 11 Motorsports possibly, but we'll have to see..
Im very much hoping its not, but I will find out tomorrow..
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If you have cracked/holed a piston it will be fubar'd.Who is doing the engine build?
I haven't 100% decided yet, there are a fair few options.. Sub 11 Motorsports possibly, but we'll have to see..
Im very much hoping its not, but I will find out tomorrow..
sub11 motorsports....james hodson??? ex jabbasport dude with a wicked Mk2 golf plaything! :happy2:
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If you have cracked/holed a piston it will be fubar'd.Who is doing the engine build?
I haven't 100% decided yet, there are a fair few options.. Sub 11 Motorsports possibly, but we'll have to see..
Im very much hoping its not, but I will find out tomorrow..
sub11 motorsports....james hodson??? ex jabbasport dude with a wicked Mk2 golf plaything! :happy2:
Yup, he's got plenty of experience of building very strong motors..
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james never built the engines,elton did.
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james never built the engines,elton did.
Ok, but you know what I mean.. Jeez mate, your on a mission tonight! :wink:
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think james just did the finishing touches, like adding the NOS perhaps.
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sorry bud :innocent:. Don't want you having engine problems!I want to see what happens....grabs popcorn. :wink:
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sorry bud :innocent:. Don't want you having engine problems!I want to see what happens....grabs popcorn. :wink:
Well im only planning on building this engine once so any suggestions as to who would be the best person to do it?
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I've heard stories about everyone mate :innocent:
The only person i trust is Bill ,Badger5 but i'm not sure what he does in the way of 2.0t.
Anyway when your done you up for a meet at pod vs my evo??
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I've heard stories about everyone mate :innocent:
The only person i trust is Bill ,Badger5 but i'm not sure what he does in the way of 2.0t.
Anyway when your done you up for a meet at pod vs my evo??
that's some praise Ryan! i'll ask Bill perhaps when i see him at combe on saturday if he wants to tinker with 2.0T's :grin:
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The guy is honest and doesn't talk crap that goes a long way in my book. Thats the problem with vag tuners most haven't got a clue!
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The guy is honest and doesn't talk crap that goes a long way in my book. Thats the problem with vag tuners most haven't got a clue!
most would not contemplate doing custom bespoke builds like Bill does either. But yeah...Bill's been in the VAG scene for quite a few years now. His ickle yellow beeza has seen plenty of BT configs lol.
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This is terrible, sorry to hear it. I know what its like buying a car when the engine goes pop after buying it.
Did you test drive the car first? Sorry if its already been mentioned.
Yeah, had a good test drive, but that was 10 days before I collected it, so anything could have happened in that time..
"Hmm, ill take it for one last rag!!!!!"
Oh dear, not good. If i had that long between testing a car and taking it home, id be looking at the mileage and taking it for another test drive before handing over the readies. But hindsight is a wonderful thing. Shame the owner has left you to pick up the pieces, but thats unfortunately all part of buying a car 2nd hand without a warranty. Nothing you can do, "Sold as seen". :sick: