MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Matthew. on March 03, 2013, 10:07:18 pm

Title: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: Matthew. on March 03, 2013, 10:07:18 pm
Hi guys,

Has anyone else been really surprised when playing with another car?

Had a little play with a diesel civic (the 2.2) on a dual carriageway the other day.

It came up along side at a rate of knots so I dropped the GTI down to fourth and to my surprise it kept pace with me upto the speed limit!  :wink:

I guess the thing must have been mapped...

(Hoping anyway)  :surprised:
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: Andy on March 03, 2013, 10:09:35 pm
Yep soot chuckers.are getting better
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: Matthew. on March 03, 2013, 10:10:51 pm
Had me looking at maps for the golf  :sad1:
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: chris s on March 03, 2013, 10:15:07 pm
I was really surprised by a Mazda mps a while back, could only edge away
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: keano on March 03, 2013, 10:15:17 pm
Let the side down there mate  :grin: be ashamed and book your car in with Dave @PDT
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: keano on March 03, 2013, 10:15:53 pm
I was really surprised by a Mazda mps a while back, could only edge away

They're 260 BHP though!
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: Matthew. on March 03, 2013, 10:18:21 pm
Been talking to the Mrs about getting a map in the summer since it happened.

I couldn't believe how it was keeping up, although as the speed increased I was pulling slightly.

Bet he was getting 50mpg too!  :grin:
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: chris s on March 03, 2013, 10:21:56 pm
Mine is stage 2+ as well, I do mean to get to pdt to check the revo settings but work and my twins are all consuming with my time
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: Matthew. on March 03, 2013, 10:23:16 pm
Those MPSs map to over 300bhp don't they?

Not shy them things.

2.3 turbo are they not?
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: camfollower on March 03, 2013, 10:25:16 pm
I was really surprised by a Mazda mps a while back, could only edge away

They're 260 BHP though!

Yeah, was thinking the same thing.  They are a rapid machine those MPS.  Heard problems with ppl mapping them though.

A diesel Civic has about 140bhp, yikes I'd be really upset about that!
Thing is about these dervs is, they will keep up with a standard GTI at low revs below 4k, you need to use all the rev range.

Once mapped you should be making about 160bhp+ at 3k RPM, 200bhp at 4k so your easily quicker without ragging it.
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: Matthew. on March 03, 2013, 10:32:16 pm
I don't think it was standard, no way would the 2.2 civic have that pace.

They map to about 190 and 300 pound feet though with would add up..
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: andrewparker on March 03, 2013, 10:40:18 pm
Who on earth maps a diesel Civic though?
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: Matthew. on March 03, 2013, 10:44:35 pm
I'm hoping this guy had!!  :confused:
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: Top Cat on March 03, 2013, 10:46:03 pm
I have a 2.2 Mazda6 sport and it is pretty fast but nowhere near a GTI.  :happy2:
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: Bernhard30 on March 03, 2013, 10:46:17 pm
Indeed my father in law had his 2.2 'fuel of Satan' Honda mapped by PDT actually. In his 60's wanted better mpg and some extra go.

So his boring looking 'hearing aid beige' (as I called it for two years before TG last week) Civic, now goes very well.
It think it went to 180bhp and loadsatorque (cannot remember the figs) on PDT rollers.
They're quite light apparently, but I have no details to back that claim.

Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: camfollower on March 03, 2013, 10:47:03 pm
Who on earth maps a diesel Civic though?
I would, the 2.2 was originally from the Accord and renowned as a very good engine.
Mind you I map every car I own, since I've owned Turbos, much more fun.
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: Jonny on March 03, 2013, 11:12:10 pm
Who on earth maps a diesel Civic though?

My old man remapped his old 2.2 civic, got 190 bhp out of it  :happy2:
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: PDT on March 04, 2013, 07:58:20 am
Who on earth maps a diesel Civic though?

 :innocent:

I've mapped one on stock turbo with updated clutch and exhaust, big intercooler to 220bhp and 350ftlb. Nice flat torque curve and quite revvy.

Normal stage one makes 190bhp and 310ftlb. Clutches are weak though.
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: gazon69 on March 04, 2013, 08:06:30 am
Those MPSs map to over 300bhp don't they?

Not shy them things.

2.3 turbo are they not?
sam89's pal on here has one. He says its running around 340-350. Pops bangs and spits flames like a good en.
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: Veee-dubber on March 04, 2013, 09:19:53 am
Diesels are getting better & better... My best mate has a Ibiza FR thats been played with its about 205bhp but the torque levels are insane cant remember the exact figures but your talking 450 odd.

its very impressive indeed, epescially when considering it does 60 to the gallon!!
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: JackG on March 04, 2013, 09:55:34 am
a diesel could be 20000bhp....they still sound like a soot chucker and dont scream like a good old petrol, 
I watch those diesel super truck things.....they just don't excite you like a real dragster, its all about the noise  :party:
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: Andy on March 04, 2013, 12:40:53 pm
a diesel could be 20000bhp....they still sound like a soot chucker and dont scream like a good old petrol, 
I watch those diesel super truck things.....they just don't excite you like a real dragster, its all about the noise  :party:
nothing like a good soot chucker :grin:
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: Jonny on March 04, 2013, 01:18:32 pm
Who on earth maps a diesel Civic though?

 :innocent:

I've mapped one on stock turbo with updated clutch and exhaust, big intercooler to 220bhp and 350ftlb. Nice flat torque curve and quite revvy.

Normal stage one makes 190bhp and 310ftlb. Clutches are weak though.

Lol got to agree with the clutch statement, he's went like 4 months after  :grin:
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: GTI5 on March 04, 2013, 05:27:45 pm
Peak Torque is just a number...

BHP is more important because gearboxes transmit this power to make torque at the wheels.

But yes there are some very good Diesels available.




Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: Hurdy on March 04, 2013, 05:38:04 pm
Oh no! A diesel Civic close to a GTI!

Go to the naughty corner and don't come back until your mapped! :signLOL:
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: blackmagic on March 04, 2013, 06:08:24 pm
Fiat 500 arbarth pritty quick for what it is. I wasn't In the gti but my work car has a little bit of tuning :) and it was hanging on.
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: rdfcpete on March 04, 2013, 06:21:24 pm
Something went wrong here fella, doesn't sound right.

Lad at work has an FK 2.2CDTI (140hp ish) Civic and it's not as quick in all areas as my A3 2.0TDI 170ps version, not forgetting my cars heavier... And my Audi isn't quite as quick as my MK5 GTI (which presumably you have). I'd say the GTI was quicker off the line because of the TDI gear ratios and extra weight, but in gear it would be a lot closer, I'd still fancy the GTI though on road and track.

Based on this, his can't have been standard, or he was super prepared and you were desperately unlucky with traction/similar, or, the Civic was badged wrongly for this reason :evilgrin:

I now Rich (richwig) has a TDI badge on his Edition 30  :pomppomp:
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on March 04, 2013, 06:36:41 pm
I've said this a lot recently but Diesels these days are just as tuneable as turbo petrols.

350+ bhp is possible from a 1.9tdi  :grin: - and it will still do 50+mpg. Have your cake and eat it  :stupid:

If it's mapped properly it should barely smoke too.

Saw a video of a Leon 170tdi with a Milltek exhaust and it sounded great  :happy2:

Kit here to take the common rail TDI engines up to 340bhp: http://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/darkside-gtb-turbo-kit-for-2-0-16v-common-rail-engines-2011.html

I can see a lot of people going over to diesel in the next few years. . .

Remember, power sells cars, torque wins races  :wink:
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: rdfcpete on March 04, 2013, 06:40:48 pm
I can see a lot of people going over to diesel in the next few years. . .

Already happening isn't it?

When I'm up and down the M6 with work, I take a picture if I see a 3.2 FSI or 2.0T, 325i, 330i, S4, M3, V8/V6 petrol whatever it might be etc newer than about 2005...  :congrats:
Respect to the owners, sticking to their guns. If I could afford to mileage/fuel wise, I certainly would have done.
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: john87 on March 04, 2013, 08:45:43 pm
I owned a 2.2 Type S civic before the Golf, mapped to ~190 bhp, and yes the clutch did go  :grin: but it was replaced under warranty due to a batch of faulty ones, happy days!

It went really well for a chucker, embarrassed a few repmobiles over the time I had it, but the suspension was very crashy (as a result felt much firmer than the GTI) and it couldn't handle anything like the golf. Big 2.2 wanting to jump over the slam panel!
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: GTI5 on March 04, 2013, 09:01:43 pm
I've said this a lot recently but Diesels these days are just as tuneable as turbo petrols.

350+ bhp is possible from a 1.9tdi  :grin: - and it will still do 50+mpg. Have your cake and eat it  :stupid:

If it's mapped properly it should barely smoke too.

Saw a video of a Leon 170tdi with a Milltek exhaust and it sounded great  :happy2:

Kit here to take the common rail TDI engines up to 340bhp: http://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/darkside-gtb-turbo-kit-for-2-0-16v-common-rail-engines-2011.html

I can see a lot of people going over to diesel in the next few years. . .

Remember, power sells cars, torque wins races  :wink:

And better Brakes win races :laugh:

There is nothing stopping TDI tuning...except it isn't usually worth the additional development for a manufacturer. By the time you have modified the Diesel you could have built the Petrol for less and I would have thought the MPG saving is negated on all but long runs.

Take the 335d. Stage 1 Edition 30 pace over 1/4 mile? And the MPG in daily driving is probably 6-8 mpg better in typical driving in favour of the 335d. To get there it's needed an extra 1000 cc and an extra turbo plus additional emissions control. But the performance of the car is impressive.

Most of these cars are marketed towards business/company car users so they are unlikely to bring out a mega tuned Diesel although I agree they have tuning potential like any other petrol if you are prepared to remove the DPF...

Like many on here I have thought about switching a number of times.
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: JackG on March 04, 2013, 09:57:31 pm
^^^ good point,  petrol will always be faster than diesel....its the ignition law, comparing 335D to a single turbo 2L petrol turbo says it all really,  compare the engine sizes and your then talking M1 BMW and then its a different league again.
I always find diesels feel faster than they actually are  :popcornsoda:
diesel is for mpg and they have come along way but there never going to be on the same scale as petrol....not for now anyway  :driver:
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: vag12 on March 04, 2013, 11:43:04 pm
Whos heard of he new Audi 3.0 TDI Biturbo its a beast! 313 PS standard and they have made sound like a v6/v8 check it out, Good on fuel too very tempted


http://www.audi.co.uk/new-cars/a7/a7-sportback/engines-and-transmissions/biturbo.html
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: Polo6n1600i on March 05, 2013, 04:26:05 pm
I love my Diesel - No Smoke / No Poke!
Its a BKD PD140 remapped by Angel - 170+bhp / 300+ lb/ft torque - plus mid-range is mental & 60mpg now!
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: berg on March 05, 2013, 04:32:08 pm
Not been surprised by anything yet; but I surprised a Boxster S when he had a nibble oh and a Passat R36 on the M6 as it took him a fair while to catch up but then I let him past as I did not want to go above 71mph..
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: skard on March 05, 2013, 05:02:55 pm
I love my Diesel - No Smoke / No Poke!
Its a BKD PD140 remapped by Angel - 170+bhp / 300+ lb/ft torque - plus mid-range is mental & 60mpg now!

I loved running at hills in my remapped BKD, it pulled remarkably well. Felt quick around the doors and was a great cruiser, but I have to say the only thing I miss about it is the MPG.
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: alexmccabe on March 05, 2013, 05:28:16 pm
On the way to a meet a BMW 318i (an old one at that) pulled up next to me. I dropped a couple gears and floored it, but he was gone. I was pretty suprised. He even rinsed a 911 at the same time.
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: JackG on March 05, 2013, 06:18:43 pm
On the way to a meet a BMW 318i (an old one at that) pulled up next to me. I dropped a couple gears and floored it, but he was gone. I was pretty suprised. He even rinsed a 911 at the same time.
a 318  :popcornsoda:
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: camfollower on March 05, 2013, 06:33:42 pm
On the way to a meet a BMW 318i (an old one at that) pulled up next to me. I dropped a couple gears and floored it, but he was gone. I was pretty suprised. He even rinsed a 911 at the same time.
a 318  :popcornsoda:
Was it this "318i" lol:
Title: Re: Surprised by a diesel civic...
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on March 05, 2013, 07:28:46 pm
This looks like fun:

 :driver:


350bhp and 450lb/ft :party: