MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => How to Guides / Troubleshooting => Topic started by: xxx_mojo_xxx on July 20, 2009, 07:44:22 pm
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Hi everyone,
Got a serious issue with my motor :sad1:... On four separate occasions while driving normally my car has without warning lost power. I press the accelerator and the car refuses to respond - kind of goes limp!!! :ashamed:
I can't seem to make rhyme of reason to it...but it's really concerning me. Took my car to the local dealership in Luton for a diagnostic check which didn't throw out any fault codes, and with the dealership being as helpful as ever they are refusing to carry out any further investigative work because the car has an after-market exhaust (Miltek) and an induction kit + remap.
I'm getting really anxious about this as I can't understand what might be causing this? Any help/suggestions/or similar experiences would be greatly appreciated - in the meantime I'll try to find a different dealership to look at the car and see if they can unearth something.
Thanks in advance,
Mo
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so actually dropping in power, or non responsive to the accelerator
would you say its a hesitation? or an actual loss
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Sounds as though it could be a misfire, had the same thing on mine about 7 months ago.
You put your foot down and the car sort of stutters before picking up?
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Thanks for the responses... just to clarify, the car doesn't misfire or stutter... simply a substantial loss of power and the accelerator becomes non responsive.
If I press the accelerator hard the car simply doesn't go - the revs either simply stay at the same level or increase very slowly. To rectify the issue I simply park my car, switch it off, start, and I'm off again as normal until it happens again... The power loss happened twice in the space of 20 mins today... seems to be getting progressively more recurrent...
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Boost leak? Could be something as simple as a hose or connection.
What a sh*tty dealer you have! Very short sighted too. Data logging on a laptop might throw up some helpful info to someone who knows what to look for.
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i had the very same thing happen to me a few months back after some checking and talking to some vw techs
i replaced the dv problem solved
wasnt happening all the time just now and then when driving
scoty
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If I press the accelerator hard the car simply doesn't go - the revs either simply stay at the same level or increase very slowly.
Sounds like you have a R32 there MR Mojo. the only way to fix it is a quick sale. :evilgrin: (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftomashandmilly%2FDaft_stuff%2Fpancho-new.gif&hash=be36f5efb5ab1e8c00703bc0919ab13123c37c50)
Only kidden it sounds to me like your car is going into limp mode. I would find a dealer without a penis on his head. :smiley:
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:chicken: :grin:
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Quick off the line though aren't they Mr Cat! :innocent:
Sorry for the thread hijack Mojo, hope you get it sorted soon! :happy2:
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i had the very same thing happen to me a few months back after some checking and talking to some vw techs
i replaced the dv problem solved
wasnt happening all the time just now and then when driving
scoty
Is there a way to check if the DV is failing for certain?
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Is there a way to check if the DV is failing for certain?
You need to remove it from the car and visually inspect it for tears.
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Not my day... whilst driving back from work my car has started making a grinding/whirring noise from the front wheel.
I think one of my front bearings has gone... shucks! This car's falling apart :sad1:
I hope it holds together - got to drive 90 miles to Birmingham. Fortunately, got it booked at a dealership to check the car out tomorrow.
I really do hope they don't try to use the eibach springs as an excuse not to sort things out under warranty.
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Not my day... whilst driving back from work my car has started making a grinding/whirring noise from the front wheel.
I think one of my front bearings has gone... shucks! This car's falling apart :sad1:
I hope it holds together - got to drive 90 miles to Birmingham. Fortunately, got it booked at a dealership to check the car out tomorrow.
I really do hope they don't try to use the eibach springs as an excuse not to sort things out under warranty.
Its not a stone trapped behind disc and sheild is it, common fault
bill
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^^^ That's just what I was thinking, had that on the rear drivers side of mine earlier this week :smiley:
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^^^ That's just what I was thinking, had that on the rear drivers side of mine earlier this week :smiley:
I've had this 2 :happy2:
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The stone chip idea did cross my mind...had the joy of that experience on an earlier car and it sounded totally different.
Hey h...the dealers can have a look.
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Dealers have confirmed it's the o/s front wheel bearing. Got it booked in Monday to have it replaced - assuming they can get the part in time.
Does anyone think that the power-loss issue may be connected to this?
I'm just a bit disappointed that the bearing has gone so quickly. Could this be connected to the lowering of my car? I guess that may have exposed it to more pressure/wear?
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Whey hey... all sorted. Nice new front bearing replaced under warranty. Perhaps this may have an impact on the power loss issue?
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Whey hey... all sorted. Nice new front bearing replaced under warranty. Perhaps this may have an impact on the power loss issue?
Good good :smiley: - Well, your the only one who can answer that. Keep us informed...
I certainly would recommend VWR to check the power loss issue if it keeps recurring. They certainly know what they're doing, anyone here can clarify that, especially R.R :happy2:
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Whey hey... all sorted. Nice new front bearing replaced under warranty. Perhaps this may have an impact on the power loss issue?
Good good :smiley: - Well, your the only one who can answer that. Keep us informed...
I certainly would recommend VWR to check the power loss issue if it keeps recurring. They certainly know what they're doing, anyone here can clarify that, especially R.R :happy2:
Update: No recurrence of the sudden power loss issue. Still a bit sceptical whether its cured. If I wanted VWR to have a look at it how much would they charge, and where are they based?
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Whey hey... all sorted. Nice new front bearing replaced under warranty. Perhaps this may have an impact on the power loss issue?
Good good :smiley: - Well, your the only one who can answer that. Keep us informed...
I certainly would recommend VWR to check the power loss issue if it keeps recurring. They certainly know what they're doing, anyone here can clarify that, especially R.R :happy2:
Update: No recurrence of the sudden power loss issue. Still a bit sceptical whether its cured. If I wanted VWR to have a look at it how much would they charge, and where are they based?
VWR are in Milton Keynes, but general repairs or warranty work aren't their bag.
Maybe try a mainstream indie like APS in Brackley if your looking for someone in the bucks area. :happy2:
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Damn!!! :fighting: The power loss issue happened again last night whilst I was pushing the car a bit. Twice!!! :sad1:
It's totally weird - I'm not sure if something like the DV is failing or its something else... :rolleye:
Appreciate any ideas of what I can check, or get the dealers to check whilst in for servicing tomorrow?
P.S. Should I just replace the DV with the Forge one to eliminate the OEM DV from the equation?
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UPDATE: Dealership have been able to pick-up a registered fault code: "Turbo/Super Charger Underboost static" (00665 P0299 002)
I'm booked in to have the following replaced:
Pressure Regulating Valve
Part Nos: 06F 129 101L and 06F 103 48 E
Cut off Valve
Part No: 06H 145 710 D
Question 1a: Am I right to assume the "cut off valve" is the same as the "diverter valve"?
Question 1b: And is the part no. for the latest revision D that I have seen mentioned?
Question 2: What on earth is the pressure regulating valve?
Thanks in advance.
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the cut-off valve is the latest piston type part no, as for the pressure regulating valve? N75?
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Hmm interesting...
Good to see they've found the problem ! :smiley:
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Sounds like you traction contol is cutting in... Have you tried turning this off and see if yours does it still. Mine does it, totally drops all power when i get too enthusiast on the faster pedal.To the point when it does you almost head butt the steering wheel. :confused:
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Sounds like you traction contol is cutting in... Have you tried turning this off and see if yours does it still. Mine does it, totally drops all power when i get too enthusiast on the faster pedal.To the point when it does you almost head butt the steering wheel. :confused:
Surely, when you ease off the accellerator and try applying the power back on it should all be back to normal... and I can't see the traction control kicking in while at 6th gear on a bone dry road.
Thanks anyway :jumpmove:
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no worries. :happy2:
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Sounds like you traction contol is cutting in... Have you tried turning this off and see if yours does it still. Mine does it, totally drops all power when i get too enthusiast on the faster pedal.To the point when it does you almost head butt the steering wheel. :confused:
I share the frustration with this one Steve, I too have almost head butted the steering wheel. Can be kind of embarrasing on occaisons.
If the weather's dry and I'm pushing it I usually turn the TC off.
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To hazard a guess traction is probably more of a challenge with a K04 turbo - rather than my humble K03.
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Sounds like you traction contol is cutting in... Have you tried turning this off and see if yours does it still. Mine does it, totally drops all power when i get too enthusiast on the faster pedal.To the point when it does you almost head butt the steering wheel. :confused:
I share the frustration with this one Steve, I too have almost head butted the steering wheel. Can be kind of embarrasing on occaisons.
If the weather's dry and I'm pushing it I usually turn the TC off.
Glad im not the only one dave, since the remap , i tend to turn it off now or i'll be at wife will be asking my i turn up home with a bruising on my forehead regually :ashamed:
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I can imagine it being more frequent since the remap; so I might just be complaining too much being on the stock setup :signLOL:
Steve I'd be interested to hear your views on the remap etc however I think messenger might be better than the forum. So when I next see ya on there I will warn you I may spam you with questions! :grin: :grin: :grin:
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no probs dave. Will see you on there soon mate :happy2:
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UPDATE
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Dealership copped out from replacing the DV valve!!! :confused:
The dealership informs me that VW HQ now insist that readings are taken when the car is being driven for warranty claims - and to no surprise the results collected were totally out of kilter from the ones on a stock VW. So there's no way of hiding the fact that the car has been remaped.
Anyway, I'm fairly certain the dealership aren't trying to pull a fast one. They replaced the pressure valve (still don't know what that is) Apparently that was an easier warranty claim, as it has a VW recall.
So, today I got the Forge re-circulating DV fitted - and by God it makes a big difference. Boost is definately back... and the engine and exhaust are roaring like a tiger!!! :laugh:
As you can see the original OEM DV valve (revision G) has a torn seal...I'm surprised the car was moving at all.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnr3vvg.blu.livefilestore.com%2Fy1pFWYwXlTNCHLsUevU5ULC12xo2PSI9xOjzxL2z_4kFq3LoLG4P4sGirQu6-cpCSr3IGlB5OSh0Ipg5sfOehTKMxM16tjh1N9d%2F20090910%2520Torn%2520OEM%2520DV%2520Valve%2520-%2520rev.%2520G.jpg&hash=29e2607b2e3f3b9d770c88e17ca1037fbfd60673)
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Nice ending - looks like its all fixed, still suprised they didnt inspect the valve, wouldnt have taken them long on a the ramps at all.
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Glad you managed to get a result :happy2:
The car must feel like new now :laugh:
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Hurdy, you're absolutely right! The car does feel like new...it's surprising how the power was gradually lost! I'm just glad my motor is back in shape.
It's a shame that VW don't put a half decent DV valve in the first place. From what I hear its a common fault even on VWs without a remap.
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Would it be recommended to change to the revised DV, even if the original one is still ok? How much are they? and are they easy to fit yourself? Will the car need re-coding? Am i asking too many questions? :laugh:
glad you finally got it sorted Mojo! :happy2:
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Personally I would recommend changing the DV - if it's anything other than the rev. D.
It's easy enough to replace. You'll need to remove the engine cover and a torx screwdriver set.
I may be getting hold of a brand new one. I'll let you know if you're interested?
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I'd change to the later D revision, in fact I think VW now list this as the replacement item. There 40quid from the dealer :happy2:
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Thanks mojo/gasbuts3 i will put one of these on my christmas list to santa :jumpmove:
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Boys the problem hasn't been resolved despite the Forge DV installation. :sad1:
Yesterday, I got a sudden loss of power twice - whilst joining the motorway.
I think the Forge DV has resolved an issue with boost leak - but something is still causing my car to go into "limp mode".
I've taken the day off tomorrow to take the car to a local garage (not VW) to read if any new faults that might have been logged.
Any ideas/suggestions welcomed - this is now beginning to really hack me off!!! :sad1:
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sorry to hear that.
from
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/index.php/16683/P0299/000665 (http://wiki.ross-tech.com/index.php/16683/P0299/000665)
your last code
16683/P0299/000665 - Boost Pressure Regulation: Control Range Not Reached
Possible Symptoms
Reduced Power Output
Limp Mode
Possible Causes
Hoses/Pipes incorrect connected, disconnected or leaking
Charger Pressure Control defective
Possible Solutions
Check Hoses/Pipes to/between Components
Check / Clean / Replace Charge Pressure Control
Special Notes
When found in 2.0l TFSI:
Check Boost Pressure Control Valve (N249), for cracked rubber diaphragm. A new/optimized Valve is available under Part # 06F-145-710-G (or newer), see TPI 2016331 for details.
is for your last code.
You need the current codes and work from there.
It may also help quicker to log the car for a short time looking for boost/ign/n75 etc values
tbh Im not a fan of the forge DV, so I'd still be tempted to run an OE DV (esp if troubleshooting)
whats the spec of your car btw?
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Thanks john_o :happy2:
I just had the DV replaced a fortnight or so ago - which resolved the general loss/degradation of power. The original DV did have a big tear. I was hoping that would have also resolved the sudden loss of power/intermittent limp mode.
I'll see what the fault logs show. The car may have logged a different fault code which might point me to something else.
You asked about my car spec...did you mean GTi MK5, DSG - or was there anything else you wanted to know?
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Thanks john_o :happy2:
I just had the DV replaced a fortnight or so ago - which resolved the general loss/degradation of power. The original DV did have a big tear. I was hoping that would have also resolved the sudden loss of power/intermittent limp mode.
I'll see what the fault logs show. The car may have logged a different fault code which might point me to something else.
You asked about my car spec...did you mean GTi MK5, DSG - or was there anything else you wanted to know?
any more updates on this?
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What fuel do you use mojo?
The reason I ask is because I have had this 'non-responsive pedal' before. I was on a long trip and could not find a shell garage anywhere, with the trip computer showing 10 miles left in the tank, I had to stop at a BP garage - I half filled her with Ultimate, 20 mins later I got the non-responsive pedal, this happened 3 times in the same journey.
Just before getting home (running low on juice again) I filled her with the trusty vpower and hey ho- never had this problem since, btw this all happened over a year ago.
ps. I was not driving hard on this journey, just cruising at low to mid revs then all of a sudden there was nothing, even if I pressed the pedal to the floor (I was worried) then after roughly 5-10 secs it would return as normal :confused:
I am not saying it definately was the BP fuel but it did make me think :confused:
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Fuel wise I usually pick and mix between BP Ultimate, Sainsbury's Super, Tesco Super, and Shell V-Power. I can't see it being fuel related... otherwise loads of VW customers would have complained en-masse.
The latest is that no faults were logged. Some people have suggested that it would take a couple of miles for the engine ECU to adjust to the new DV.
I don't want to tempt fate - but there hasn't been a recurrence of the problem since the last posted incident. I have covered over 3000 miles, most of which has been "energetic" acceleration, or cruising at 120 mph.
I do think I need to change the Forge DV spring though... I got two with mine. Green for standard engines (currently fitted), and yellow for remapped engines.
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Touch wood - no recurrence of the power loss issue. The replacement DV must have resolved it, and I guess the the engine took a while to adjust/calibrate to it.
I'm now going to change the spring in the DV to the yellow one. Apparently that's for remapped cars, rather than the green one.
Also going to install the BSH Stage 1 PCV fix - without the catch-can. Not sure what that does entirely...can't see it doing any harm.
:wink:
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Put in the yellow spring today...and boy does it make a difference to boost. Loving it... :evilgrin:
The DEFI gauge peaks at 22 psi - which I'm assuming is good?
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*** HELP REQUIRED ***
I guess I spoke a little too soon. The sudden loss of power has started again... :sad1:
Now that I have the DEFI gauge I can see that the needle falls below 20 when idling or when I am not pressing the accelerator. The needle is no longer stable - but ever so slightly fluctuates between 20 and 21. Before it used to be rock solid at 20.
Recently I had a THS intercooler and AutoTech HPFP fitted... could it be something to do with that? May be some boost pipes to/from the intercooler have not been fixed firmly?
Or has my DV gone, again??? Thing is, my DV is a Forge one...
Any advice on things to check would be really appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
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*** HELP REQUIRED ***
I guess I spoke a little too soon. The sudden loss of power has started again... :sad1:
Now that I have the DEFI gauge I can see that the needle falls below 20 when idling or when I am not pressing the accelerator. The needle is no longer stable - but ever so slightly fluctuates between 20 and 21. Before it used to be rock solid at 20.
Recently I had a THS intercooler and AutoTech HPFP fitted... could it be something to do with that? May be some boost pipes to/from the intercooler have not been fixed firmly?
Or has my DV gone, again??? Thing is, my DV is a Forge one...
Any advice on things to check would be really appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Anyone?
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Mate, i have the same exact problem and have for about 8 months! no fault codes are brought up with VCDS and as soon as you turn it off and start it again you have full boost again.
Its like the turbo goes into limp. Ive now reverted into killing my ignition (whilst driving sometimes) and turning it back on and were off again.
I also have the forge DV, i firstly had this problem when going to the nurburg ring last year. Steve said my car had logged an over boost so im thinking it may be over boosting and then going limp.
Im putting my pump on this week with new MAF and cam follower so il let you know if the problem persists, it only happens now and then but is frustrating as i have no idea what it really is. :sad1:
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are all the pipes from the dv on the correct way around?
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are all the pipes from the dv on the correct way around?
:confused: would there not be a more dramatic outcome if this were the case?
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Thanks for the responses guys... just to recap the trail of events the symptoms are identical to what happened before the Forge DV was installed. The very first set of occurrences turned out to be the stock DV which had ruptured its rubber seal. Apparently a very common fault.
At this time I had a couple of faults logged - something around low or under boost.
More recently, it's happened with the Forge DV. This is despite being led to believe that the Forge DV is pretty much immune to failure due to its mechanism and construction.
As my recent power loss happened at a leisurely 50m/ph on the M1 through road works I can't see it being an over boost issue. Also, this time round no faults have been registered.
Recently I have had a HPFP and intercooler upgrade, and also the cam follower changed as a precautionary measure whilst everything was open. If it's not the Forge DV I suspect its a leaking boost pipe - as the vacuum pressure on the DEFI gauge has dropped below 20. Being able to see this information alone in my opinion has paid for the gauge...it' a great diagnostic tool.
Current plan is to visit TTS this Thursday so they can have a look as they originally carried out all the works. I'm also considering the latest rev. of the VW diverter valve. Some people reckon it's actually better than the Forge one. If I can get this to work with my DEFI gauge then I may go down that route.
In any case I will keep you all posted on progress...and if you guys could do the same that would be great. :happy2:
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keeping my eye on this as its exactly the same as mine, sounds like it doesnt happen as much as yours though,
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To eliminate the Forge DV I purchased yet another one...the VW rev. D one. I sold my spare one only last week. :sad1:
Anyway, the change has not made an ounce of difference to the vacuum pressure. TTSHop reckon the lower vacuum pressure is down to the intercooler and HPFP upgrades. It also indicates that the engine is holding vacuum compression a lot better than normal. Boost pressure on WOT is 22 psi, which again is supposed to be really good.
On a slightly different note, I did notice that the actuator in the new VW diverter valve kicks in quicker. So boost pressure is made available a lot earlier than the Forge one. The reaction of the VW diverter valve is certainly a lot more immediate.
Also got the induction kit changed to a Carbonio one...thought I'd try something different.
No recurrence of the isssue - even after thraping the car and red lining it on a spirited run over 15 mins... how bizarre? :surprised:
Any news from anyone else?
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Glad swapping the DV helped. Did you get the Forge pipes sorted?
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Glad swapping the DV helped. Did you get the Forge pipes sorted?
Spoke to Forge yesterday...apparently they have disposed of all their existing stock and waiting delivery of a new batch.
I will have to wait 3 weeks...so probably an early April job.
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not had it happen to me since the pump went in, but have only done about 20 miles this week, maybe its the forge DV, ive had mine for about 2 years. Am tempted to try a stock DV.
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Joe, what remap do you have?
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I almost guarantee that your D.V's are fine and wouldnt cause this type of problem, intake and map would'nt cause this issue either. Have you checked plugs, coils and Pcv. I would start there and get car logged. Stop throwing parts at it. You will solve it. :smiley:
Have a quick search on Vwvortex.com, can be very helpfull.
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I almost guarantee that your D.V's are fine and wouldnt cause this type of problem, intake and map would'nt cause this issue either. Have you checked plugs, coils and Pcv. I would start there and get car logged. Stop throwing parts at it. You will solve it. :smiley:
Have a quick search on Vwvortex.com, can be very helpfull.
Well, I have teh BSH PCV Stage 1 fix - so there's no chance of a diaphragm or pipe leak issue.
Spark plug and coil pack wise...how and what do I check?
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Hey mojo, dont know if you still have this issue but ive just replaced my MAP sensor tonight.
Power seems strangly stronger, not had any cuts yet but there not very regular.
Replacing DV tomorrow for a D version.
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Thanks buddy... I haven't had a recurrence... will monitor. If it happens again I'll replace the MAP sensor.
How much did that set back? You got a part number?
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it was £99 for a new MAP and a new DV, so i think there about £50. takes 2 mins to replace. noticed its not boosting quite as high with the new sensor now, :rolleye: maybe it was overboosting beforehand. power seems smoother.
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Just wondering if it could be coil pack/ packs.
Lost 2 on a nearly new Porker, replaced all under warranty.
Sounds very similar. No power for 15 secs or so when u put ur foot down.
Mine was worse when engine had been run for a while / hot.
Don't know how to check coil packs. Can you diag or log with vagcom?
Lee
ps feel a little guilty about the DV hope you are happy with the forge.
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No worries NC :smiley:
Nothing registered or shown in error log through VCDS. Every time the power loss occured I have had to switch the car off to reset it back out of 'limp mode'.
Not sure how I'm going to get VW to replace the coil packs under warranty if nothing is logged...
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Can't help you, but the Porsche was just the same. It did "clear" itself after a few seconds and drive ok.
The worst was coming off a motorway cruising up to a rounderbout then having nothing for a few secs when pulling out. Foot flat to the floor, all of a sudden all the power comes in at once all 500+ bhp :scared:
Funny, as soon as I phoned the dealer they said coil packs. Didn't need to book it in either, they just replaced while I waited.
Personally I would be tempted to phone a couple of dealers, and ask for the service manager. Or like you said a good indi. Explain the symptoms, suggest coil packs.
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Just to bring an old thread back to life, i'm experiencing exactly the same issues, but my universal fault code reader is showing code P2293. What part/sensor do i need to replace??
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http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/18725/P2293/008851