MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: northyracing on March 09, 2013, 08:52:22 pm
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I keep posting the same problem on here to try get an answer but so far no joy. So far what I have done is new DV new PCV 4 new coil packs and plugs to match them new cam follower cam belt change but still getting the lumpy idle. I then had it plugged in which showed no problems what so ever. MAF was working fine and recorded no misfires either ,is just on idle that's all once driving pulls like a train could the problem be inside the standard map
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I keep posting the same problem on here to try get an answer but so far no joy.
I've noticed that. :laugh:
I feel your pain, your head must be wrecked by now. Without any fault codes it'll have to be a mechanical search, check, etc.
Is your coolant ok...level wise? I read somewhere that low coolant can affect idling, not sure if it applies to these cars though.
If it was me at this stage I'd talk to a very good technician/mechanic and ask his/her advice. Someone with years of experience will know a thing or two to check.
Hope you get it sorted soon.
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Did you get a emissions check done?
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What mileage has the car done?
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I have not had an emission test as of yet but lambda sensors was checked and working fine, the bloke who was doing the checks for me has been a well known mechanic for years and it has baffled him aswell the car has done 65600 miles coolant levels are fine if anything a little too much in there just beating my head against the wall now that's why I maybe thought it could be in the standard vw software
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Cylinders compression and intake valves condition been checked?
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Cylinders compression and intake valves condition been checked?
No not yet as not sure on how to do that. The weird thing is it only happens when car is on idle soon as you give it abut of throttle it's gone
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im not sure if a lumpy idle is the same as rough idle but on the mk4, giving the throttle body a clean sorted this? i guess it could be the same thing for you.
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Cylinders compression and intake valves condition been checked?
No not yet as not sure on how to do that. The weird thing is it only happens when car is on idle soon as you give it abut of throttle it's gone
There's a great how to knocking about for cleaning your valves... As you'd appreciate it's quite time consuming, here it is:
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140523
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Something for you to try (maybe):
I have had a bit of what I can only describe as a bit of a stammer on idle. It felt like a bit of a missfire altough VAG-COM stated none. I have had an occasional fault flagged up on previous scans on the Throttle Body so today i thought I would try to clean it.
I bought some Carbaurettor/Injector cleaner from Halfrauds to try to clean it. My thought was to remove the Throttle body to clean it through, but that looked like a right PITA to get it off. So plan B was as per instructions, through the air intake (I originally didn't want to spray through the Turbo & Intercooler but easier than dissassembly).
I removed the connection from the airbox/MAF sensor and sprayed (pulsed) in there as my beautiful assistant held the revs around 2-3k. I also removed the PCV connection and sprayed in there as well (again pulsed). Beware, the engine does not like it if take the vacuum pipe off so don't do this for too long! If you overdo it, it will stall but will restart eventually.
The car now runs great. I don't know if it is a placebo effect but first impressions are that the car feels like it breathes better and the stammer appears to have gone at idle. My car has nearly reached 67k miles.
Just a thought. Oh and I originally wanted to do the above (CAMFOLLOWER) but there was snow forecast and this seemed to be an easier first step.
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Something for you to try (maybe):
I have had a bit of what I can only describe as a bit of a stammer on idle. It felt like a bit of a missfire altough VAG-COM stated none. I have had an occasional fault flagged up on previous scans on the Throttle Body so today i thought I would try to clean it.
I bought some Carbaurettor/Injector cleaner from Halfrauds to try to clean it. My thought was to remove the Throttle body to clean it through, but that looked like a right PITA to get it off. So plan B was as per instructions, through the air intake (I originally didn't want to spray through the Turbo & Intercooler but easier than dissassembly).
I removed the connection from the airbox/MAF sensor and sprayed (pulsed) in there as my beautiful assistant held the revs around 2-3k. I also removed the PCV connection and sprayed in there as well (again pulsed). Beware, the engine does not like it if take the vacuum pipe off so don't do this for too long! If you overdo it, it will stall but will restart eventually.
The car now runs great. I don't know if it is a placebo effect but first impressions are that the car feels like it breathes better and the stammer appears to have gone at idle. My car has nearly reached 67k miles.
Just a thought. Oh and I originally wanted to do the above (CAMFOLLOWER) but there was snow forecast and this seemed to be an easier first step.
This is exactly what I did with a can of Wynns EGR cleaner, and I can report, mines improved along with the Terraclean treatment I also did.
(From reply 8 on link below)
@northracing
Read my recent thread titled Terraclean. :happy2:
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,61952.0.html
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Something for you to try (maybe):
I have had a bit of what I can only describe as a bit of a stammer on idle. It felt like a bit of a missfire altough VAG-COM stated none. I have had an occasional fault flagged up on previous scans on the Throttle Body so today i thought I would try to clean it.
I bought some Carbaurettor/Injector cleaner from Halfrauds to try to clean it. My thought was to remove the Throttle body to clean it through, but that looked like a right PITA to get it off. So plan B was as per instructions, through the air intake (I originally didn't want to spray through the Turbo & Intercooler but easier than dissassembly).
I removed the connection from the airbox/MAF sensor and sprayed (pulsed) in there as my beautiful assistant held the revs around 2-3k. I also removed the PCV connection and sprayed in there as well (again pulsed). Beware, the engine does not like it if take the vacuum pipe off so don't do this for too long! If you overdo it, it will stall but will restart eventually.
The car now runs great. I don't know if it is a placebo effect but first impressions are that the car feels like it breathes better and the stammer appears to have gone at idle. My car has nearly reached 67k miles.
Just a thought. Oh and I originally wanted to do the above (CAMFOLLOWER) but there was snow forecast and this seemed to be an easier first step.
Mine is the same it feels like a misfire but when plugged in doesn't register as a misfire so it almost feels like on idle someone on the outside of car slightly rocks the car but like I say ever so slightly so maybe could be a dirty throttle body it seems strange it's only happened after I had the coil packs fail
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I got some carb cleaner today and had the car revving at about 2500rpm and sprayed into the intake manifold via where the PCV plugs in and also inti the intake from the MAF to the turbo but still the problem is there so I am defiantly confused.com now
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Could the timing cause a lumpy idle as I had the cam belt done about a 1000 miles ago and seems after I had this done also coils plugs DV and PCV done I had this problem I didn't have it befor all of this done
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If the car is one tooth on the timing side of things out , then it would be down on power. perhaps log the MAF to see what the power is doing?
These cars idle quality isn't its strong point. Have you tried comparing it to someone else's Mk5 GTi?
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I had a log on a snap on diagnostics which read 0.2 g/s at idle but I don't know what the proper reading is
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I had a log on a snap on diagnostics which read 0.2 g/s at idle but I don't know what the proper reading is
Use VCDS.
0.2 sounds about right.
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I don't own vcds at the moment might just have to invest in it so I can play about with the car and hopefully find my idle problem where can I buy it from and how does it actually work
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You can get the the genuine VCDS from gendan, I got mine from there.
http://m.gendan.co.uk/product_VCHU.html
You put the software on a laptop from Ross tech website, plug lead into USB and plug other end into diag port of car and away you go!
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300878955296 I found this on eBay seems too good to be true
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300878955296 I found this on eBay seems too good to be true
It probably is..
Is it a genuine version?
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300878955296 I found this on eBay seems too good to be true
It is. The clue is in the text.
Simply use the software provided! Please do not update!
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Well listing sounds the part makes me wonder if they brought the genuine vcds and then copied it onto discs to sell on
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Could the timing cause a lumpy idle as I had the cam belt done about a 1000 miles ago and seems after I had this done also coils plugs DV and PCV done I had this problem I didn't have it befor all of this done
My engine developed a lumpy idle once the cam bent was changed. I believe a small amount of timing adjustment can be made when carrying out this procedure either intentionally or by some incompetent VW technician.
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Could the timing cause a lumpy idle as I had the cam belt done about a 1000 miles ago and seems after I had this done also coils plugs DV and PCV done I had this problem I didn't have it befor all of this done
My engine developed a lumpy idle once the cam bent was changed. I believe a small amount of timing adjustment can be made when carrying out this procedure either intentionally or by some incompetent VW technician.
I wonder if its an easy to fix this problem. Did you gets yours done or left it its really doing my head in now as diognostics show no faults so maybe when I had my belt done it slipped a tooth on timing
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Could the timing cause a lumpy idle as I had the cam belt done about a 1000 miles ago and seems after I had this done also coils plugs DV and PCV done I had this problem I didn't have it befor all of this done
My engine developed a lumpy idle once the cam bent was changed. I believe a small amount of timing adjustment can be made when carrying out this procedure either intentionally or by some incompetent VW technician.
I wonder if its an easy to fix this problem. Did you gets yours done or left it its really doing my head in now as diognostics show no faults so maybe when I had my belt done it slipped a tooth on timing
I would quite like to get it fixed but as it doesn't seem to effect performance I'm not that bothered about it.
That said it might be contributing to my poor cold starting issue where the engine coughs and splutters into life. Hmmm
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When you get the rough idle does the needle more on rev counter as when mine does needle stays perfectly still also when at low speeds does yours feel juddery or smooth
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What intake are you using? If you are using the standard air box then try changing the air filter as this will make a difference on idle as mine ran fine while driving then ran rough when on tick over so try that mate
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I'm on standard air box but have jus replaced the filter itself with a pipercross foam filter but still seems to be the same I dunno what else to do as its had new coils plugs DV and pcv
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Well listing sounds the part makes me wonder if they brought the genuine vcds and then copied it onto discs to sell on
Why would they do that? :stupid:
You can download the software for free it's the cable that's the clever bit and contains the licence for the software.
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When you get the rough idle does the needle more on rev counter as when mine does needle stays perfectly still also when at low speeds does yours feel juddery or smooth
The needle doesn't move at all and at low speeds its feels fine. The slight juddering comes through the pedals an you can sort of hear it.
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I have had the same problem with mine since I bought it a year ago. It doesn't bring up any errors at all on the computer but you can feel it slightly on idle through the pedal and through the car vibration. Feels like a very slight drop in revs and each drop literally lasts half a second then returns to normal for 2-3 seconds then I feel another drop and this just repeats doing random drops. However when accelerating it completely dissapears.
I've never found a solution to it. I would love someone to tell me what it is. I've kinda learned to get used to it and I forget its there most of the time. But there is times when I realise its there and it irritates me like mad! lol
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I've exactly the same problem. Kinda jutters for a split second and back to normal.
Needle never moves but i agree it drives me crazyyyy also..just when i'm just sitting in the car and its spluttering and getting on very badly!! :fighting:
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I've noticed with mine, if its at night and the headlights are on, I can actually see the headlights dim very very slightly each time I feel the drop in revs. I mean you do have to look very closely to see them dim but it is there.
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Atleast I no there are 3 of us in the same boat now it's actually doin my nut in now can't seem to fix it I have tried changing things but with no results such a shame really. Do either of you notice at low speeds ie around 20 to 30 mph it's feels hesitant when driving almost like not as smooth as they should be
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Mmmm now that you mention it yeah it sometimes feel like it holds back at bit at 20-30mph but after i stick the foot down it flies away fine no bother, but yeah there is definitely something there...hope its something that can be sorted easily and nothing major is wrong!! :scared:
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Mmmm now that you mention it yeah it sometimes feel like it holds back at bit at 20-30mph but after i stick the foot down it flies away fine no bother, but yeah there is definitely something there...hope its something that can be sorted easily and nothing major is wrong!! :scared:
That could well be a difty MAF.
A blast with some electical cleaner (£5 from Halfords) should sort it :happy2:
I did a search for a how-to which did the trick. only takes 5 mins :smiley:
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Cheers Gray :happy2:
I'll have a wee look online when i get a chance and hope it solves the problem! :smiley:
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To me, it sounds like clogged up intake valves :scared.. Cylinder 4 being the culprit .
I think this causes the sluggish idle
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Cleaned the MAF and still just the same bloody cars
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Cleaned the MAF and still just the same bloody cars
Done a Exhaust emissions test yet fella?? :confused:
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Not got round to it yet trying to find out what readings are right so I can compare them and see if mine is ok or not
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Surely finding out whether your hydrocarbons are high, indicates a dirty intake/ exhaust issue, and thus poor idle quality? :confused:
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The problem is I wouldn't know what I am looking at
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The problem is I wouldn't know what I am looking at
Any MOT station will tell you if you have a problem. This is part of an mot test. High idle speed emissions means it will fail the MOT. More then 200 hydrocarbons will constitute a failure.
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Right I see I will take the car to a local mot centre and see what they say. If I get a high reading what would cause this
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If your suffering with High hydrocarbons, means more then likely, you have gummed up inlet valves due to the nature of the engine and the way it recirculates its internal combustion. Because the car is direct injection, the fuel is injected directly into the cylinder , and not sucked in past the inlet valves which would normally wash them to an extent and stop carbon building up,thus causing poor air flow into the cylinder, especially cyl 4 as it gets the least amount of fresh air flow via the inlet manifold.resulting in poor idling..
This would constitute a possible misfire on a cylinder or (s) .vcds would possibly show this, where's your snap on tester may not.
It's well worth doing an emissions check,this will then rule out any mechanical issue causing your problem.
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That's shed a lot of light I will get an emissions test done backed up with a vcds reading and go from there at least I will know roughly what to do then. If it is the valves how would I fix this
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That's shed a lot of light I will get an emissions test done backed up with a vcds reading and go from there at least I will know roughly what to do then. If it is the valves how would I fix this
If by using intake valve cleaner doesn't do the trick, ie a couple of cans, followed by an Italian tune down the motorway doesn't help, then it's inlet manifold off to access the valves and scrap off the carbon directly.
This problem is becoming more and more of an issue as these engines are starting to hit higher mileages.
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When you say valve cleaner where do you actually spray it into is it the intake where the PCV hose goes into and what's this Italian tune down you mean sorry if I sound dumb lol
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Atleast I no there are 3 of us in the same boat now it's actually doin my nut in now can't seem to fix it I have tried changing things but with no results such a shame really. Do either of you notice at low speeds ie around 20 to 30 mph it's feels hesitant when driving almost like not as smooth as they should be
I can't say its hesitant really but from some of the comments that Steve made it seems to tie in with what happened to my car. When I first bought it it was juddering really bad and I had a misfire on cylinder 3. Took it to the garage and it turned out to be a bad injector. Had it changed but he said there was a massive build up of carbon on the piston or valve (can't remember which he said) and he had to scrap it off and clean it. So it makes me wonder if all te other pistons have a build up of carbon and thats where im getting the slight judder from.
My car has actually done about 110000 miles so it could be the age of the car.
Does anyone know if it would be a big job to have it all taken to bits to have it cleaned?
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Lovely stuff so in theory the spray sort of softens the as you would say crap up and the the Italian way should burn it off I have got some wynnes carb and intake cleaner to hand or would you recommend proper egr cleaner in a way a tenner is nothing to lose really so happy days. If it solves my problem. Another thing I forgot to mention is mine only does it when car is warm on start up she don't miss a beat
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Lovely stuff so in theory the spray sort of softens the as you would say crap up and the the Italian way should burn it off I have got some wynnes carb and intake cleaner to hand or would you recommend proper egr cleaner in a way a tenner is nothing to lose really so happy days. If it solves my problem. Another thing I forgot to mention is mine only does it when car is warm on start up she don't miss a beat
If your car has done more then 50,000 miles, I would do the above if I'm honest. Only does good and as you say softens the carbon, and with a good blast will try and burn off some of the carbon. cheaper then a cylinder off and decoke :grin:
Terraclean is worth doing the other side of things. I will be doing this yearly from now on. Doing lots of short journeys makes things worse when dealing with gummed up inlet valves.
It cured my idle missfire issues.
Emissions test 1st though will indicate whether you need to look at this ok?.
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I only really do short journeys too makes me now wonder if it was driving while PCV was naffed that might have helped cause this problem I will defiantly give it a try like you say can only do good. Will just get a few cans and see what I can do thanks for your advise fingers crossed will cure it
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Right I done the Italian tune up and sadly hasn't made no difference so another one off the list to try
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Right I done the Italian tune up and sadly hasn't made no difference so another one off the list to try
Italian tune up may work if you do the Terraclean and the EGR spray treatment... :confused:
By doing the high revs is not gonna cure it unless you've put something through the engine first :stupid:
Or have you done this in super quick time??
So what was the emissions test outcome????
Your not following the advise thats put in front of you.. :confused:
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Sorry was mention to say I sprayed some carb and intake cleaner via the PCV port on intake manifold purely because I had a can spare just thought as there is nothing to lose and I was bored. Not as yet done emission as everywhere was busy today
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Sorry was mention to say I sprayed some carb and intake cleaner via the PCV port on intake manifold purely because I had a can spare just thought as there is nothing to lose and I was bored. Not as yet done emission as everywhere was busy today
If your hydrocarbons are low, then that will rule any carbon and mechanical issues out. Then VCDS will be your next purchase or give the car to a dealer to diagnose it properly.
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Above 3k it drives lovely do you reckon it could be something silly like the original map playing up as I had a hesitation in my mk4 r32 which turned out to be the standard vw map
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Above 3k it drives lovely do you reckon it could be something silly like the original map playing up as I had a hesitation in my mk4 r32 which turned out to be the standard vw map
Unlikely..
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Think I might just put into a vw specialist and see what they can find at lest they should have all the up to date equipment to find the problem
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Any news on this?
Mine started doing this yesterday, sat still it hunts, sometimes quite badly, the clocks dont move but the engine rocks about quite abit. When cruising about its fine, when you give it a boot full its also fine. If you let it pull itself along in gear itll go really lumpy. It occasionally spikes to about 2 by itslef, does it hot or cold, also and if you try and hold it at revs (while stationary) (i tried 2k) it will drop and raise all by itself.
Irritating as im suposed be driving 500 miles on monday morning :scared: . Although its fine under load im concerned i wont get good fuel return. Anyone noticed bad fuel economy?
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Oh yeah forgot to say, mine is 2006 with 42k on the clock and FVWSH.
Heres a cheeky video i made, is anyone elses like this?
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Oh yeah forgot to say, mine is 2006 with 42k on the clock and FVWSH.
Heres a cheeky video i made, is anyone elses like this?
Sounds like an injector. If you've done the PCV already, then sounds like its the same as mine did.
You might find by turning on the aircon, increasing the load slightly it'll feel slightly better, but its a sign one injector is on its way out.
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Wow quick reply, so it should be ok to use for the next few days? Its still got vw warranty so ill take it back to them later in the week, no doubt they wont find a fault as usual. I havent changed the pcv but i did the little test (briefly taking the oil cap off) and it ran like a sack of turd so that means the pcv is fine yes? That was about 2months ago.
If it comes to it i have breakdown cover but im away until thursday using the car.
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Wow quick reply, so it should be ok to use for the next few days? Its still got vw warranty so ill take it back to them later in the week, no doubt they wont find a fault as usual. I havent changed the pcv but i did the little test (briefly taking the oil cap off) and it ran like a sack of turd so that means the pcv is fine yes? That was about 2months ago.
If it comes to it i have breakdown cover but im away until thursday using the car.
Yes it will be ok, mine started as lumpy cold starting, but then turned into that stuttering when Up to temperature . I could get it to splutter up to 1800rpm just by holding the revs in neutral, if you listen closely. Logging live misfires using VCDS also highlighted the cylinder that was causing mine, which was cyl 4.
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Awesome mate, thanks for the help means alot, it has strugled a few times starting up from cold recently, thought it was odd. Would this have thrown a fault code? So vw (the pros :signLOL: ) can then find the problem?
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It may show a missfire, but may not show up as an error. Only if they do a live missfire count,(blocks 15+16) it will show each time the stutter happens, and which cylinder to further investigate.
HTH
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mines doing this, when i log the above on idle its cylinder 2.
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mines doing this, when i log the above on idle its cylinder 2.
Mines exactly the same can count 4 in the matter of 20 seconds
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mines doing this, when i log the above on idle its cylinder 2.
Mines exactly the same can count 4 in the matter of 20 seconds
mine counts to 20 :grin:
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mines doing this, when i log the above on idle its cylinder 2.
Mines exactly the same can count 4 in the matter of 20 seconds
mine counts to 20 :grin:
Bloody belly mines not that bad lol do you find when driving at low speed it feels very juddery
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mines doing this, when i log the above on idle its cylinder 2.
Mines exactly the same can count 4 in the matter of 20 seconds
mine counts to 20 :grin:
Bloody belly mines not that bad lol do you find when driving at low speed it feels very juddery
New injector is the cure to a smooth future :wink: :grin:
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mines doing this, when i log the above on idle its cylinder 2.
Mines exactly the same can count 4 in the matter of 20 seconds
mine counts to 20 :grin:
Bloody belly mines not that bad lol do you find when driving at low speed it feels very juddery
erm no, i wouldnt say so.
I cant decide if i should just fit a new injector or try terra clean 1st
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I'm going the new injector route just need to find part numbers for parts I need so I can get a price and go from there
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mines doing this, when i log the above on idle its cylinder 2.
Mines exactly the same can count 4 in the matter of 20 seconds
mine counts to 20 :grin:
Bloody belly mines not that bad lol do you find when driving at low speed it feels very juddery
erm no, i wouldnt say so.
I cant decide if i should just fit a new injector or try terra clean 1st
I tried it.. Doesn't work. New injector is the way foward. Save your £100 from Terraclean and buy an injector instead.
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What are the chances that this is the pcv? Doesnt a broken pcv result in lose of power? And could i still use it if its bust?
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If your PCV fails, then your idle at its slowest will be unable to sit at 800rpm.
It will surge upto 1500rpm and splutter. Mine has failed in the past.
I've changed coil packs , spark plugs, done Terraclean, and actually have VCDS to confirm this was narrowed down to a faulty injector, doing exactly what your video shows. Splutters badly on Cold Starting and improved once when warmed up, or if I turn on the air con ,which raises the idle speed to 800rpm, and 760rpm with Air con off.
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If your PCV fails, then your idle at its slowest will be unable to sit at 800rpm.
It will surge upto 1500rpm and splutter. Mine has failed in the past.
I've changed coil packs , spark plugs, done Terraclean, and actually have VCDS to confirm this was narrowed down to a faulty injector, doing exactly what your video shows. Splutters badly on Cold Starting and improved once when warmed up, or if I turn on the air con ,which raises the idle speed to 800rpm, and 760rpm with Air con off.
Awesome thanks a lot steve, just trying to cover all options as like i said im doing some miles in it this week. Really helped me out buddy. Put my mind at rest atleast.
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Will the injector eventually just cut off? And i trust the car will refuse to work once this happens? Just dont want to be stuck in the welsh outback while im using it this week.
Sorry for being a pain, im used to having a lumpy idle, turning a screw and hey presto problem solved!
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Will the injector eventually just cut off? And i trust the car will refuse to work once this happens? Just dont want to be stuck in the welsh outback while im using it this week.
Sorry for being a pain, im used to having a lumpy idle, turning a screw and hey presto problem solved!
I would imagine the lumpy idle will slowly get worse, and not just cut off. What you may find is, you may have Emmisions issues come MOT test time, as the ECU will be trying to correct the fuelling issue on idle. Fine to use for your trip, but one i would get investigated ASAP.
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Well.....
I got to the border of wales and then the exhaust emmisions light came on. So i decided to see where my nearest VW was, which luckily there was one close by. Took it down to them and it had two faults
1. Ignition coil was causing missfires
2. Pressure valve at the front of the engine (i assume pcv?)
I asked if it was the pcv and he said, its just a pressure valve :stupid:
I guess theres soo many things that it can be, its hard to know without plugging it in what the real fault was. Didnt take long to diagnose and fix it, about 180mins and they cleaned and hovered it :happy2: brucie bonus!
Cheers for your help Steve :drinking:
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Well.....
I got to the border of wales and then the exhaust emmisions light came on. So i decided to see where my nearest VW was, which luckily there was one close by. Took it down to them and it had two faults
1. Ignition coil was causing missfires
2. Pressure valve at the front of the engine (i assume pcv?)
I asked if it was the pcv and he said, its just a pressure valve :stupid:
I guess theres soo many things that it can be, its hard to know without plugging it in what the real fault was. Didnt take long to diagnose and fix it, about 180mins and they cleaned and hovered it :happy2: brucie bonus!
Cheers for your help Steve :drinking:
pleasure :happy2:
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mines booked in on wednesday.
New injector
rev p PCV (front and rear)
new fuel lines swapping from banjo bolt to newer flex pipe.