MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Marshall on March 18, 2013, 07:34:25 pm
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I've only done 200 miles in my golf cr 170.
It goes well and smooth and good on fuel but thinking about giving it a little boost.
Any opinions welcome
Option 1 leave standard
Option 2 bluefin
Option 3 Revo
I'm unsure if my car can be mapped via the serial port but if it couldn't I wouldn't be having the ecu removed to do this, this my give me my answer.
Just feel it could pull better mid range.
Opinions please.
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I Believe Revo stopped doing maps for the 170 due to some problems appearing so they stopped mapping them.
Will have a look for the page I'm after an post it up bud.
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Worth a read
http://www.revotechnik.com/resources/uploads/files/TSB%20PPD170%20DPF%20support%20-%20customerweb.pdf
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IIRC The PD170's were troublesome (DPF's, injectors etc).
The CR170's are much better for reliability, but due to the encrypted ECU's they are difficult to map :sad1:
If you have a manual gearbox, a "softer" map may be best to safeguard your clutch. On the Rocco forums, loads of folk have gone Revo and been really pleased :happy2:
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Worth a read
http://www.revotechnik.com/resources/uploads/files/TSB%20PPD170%20DPF%20support%20-%20customerweb.pdf
That is for the PD170 (ie mk5 golf GT TDI 170) NOT the more modern CR170 in the mk6 golf / scirocco
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Thanks for the input.
The car goes well its probably just me coming from my stage 2 Cupra R but so far I'm happy :happy2:
I've been there with my last car upgrading clutches etc and not doing it again.
I've probably answered my own question with that statement.
Just curious if anyone on here has one done.
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Thanks for the input.
The car goes well its probably just me coming from my stage 2 Cupra R but so far I'm happy :happy2:
I've been there with my last car upgrading clutches etc and not doing it again.
I've probably answered my own question with that statement.
Just curious if anyone on here has one done.
May be worth looking on one of the other forums (scirocco central has loads of threads on CR170 remaps) :happy2:
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Will do.
Thank you
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http://www.ecotune-scotland.co.uk/.
Performance diesel tuning specialist. :happy2:
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My mate had his octavia CR170 VRS REVO'd by AKS...... ECU had to come out, but apart from that no issues. The car pulls much better now. :happy2:
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Tried bluefin on the golf today and its not compatible.
Just need to decide what to do.
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revo :happy2:
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Maybe.
If there was a deal on I'd have it done tomorrow!
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Was going to say try REVO mate, i know APR are coming out with something eventually but nout as of yet as far as im aware
REVO do a DPF Delete package for the CR170
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Was going to say try REVO mate, i know APR are coming out with something eventually but nout as of yet as far as im aware
REVO do a DPF Delete package for the CR170
Revo themselves say that a stage 2 CR170 is (in their words) "a monster" & more than a match for a stage 1 K03 TFSI :evilgrin:
If yours is a manual, be careful of too much torque killing the clutch. Although superchips don't have a good rep in this forum (I wouldn't use them o a TFSI). Diesel tuning is much more straight forward and less dangerous than petrol so I would perhaps vote superchips for a diesel map :happy2:
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I ordered a bluefin but found the ecu to have the anti tuning software on so it wasn't compatible.
Spoke to Dave today and he is aware of limiting torque figures so looking forward to it.
It says in bluefin site that ECU needs to be "bluefin enabled" - comes up as a warning box for me
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Diesel tuning is much more straight forward and less dangerous than petrol so I would perhaps vote superchips for a diesel map :happy2:
I wouldn't say diesel tuning is more straight forward, Stage1 and 2 yes
But as soon as we get into Hybrid Turbos etc its a right pain, Especially the PD170 :innocent:
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Yeah hybrids are more difficult but in general diesels aren't as fussy about AFR as Petrol engines, which is why so many diesel tuning boxes are out there. A percentage increase on everything gets good gains and is still safe :happy2:
I'm keen to see the results from you map. Mine made 172.5bhp and 270lb/from JKM's dyno. I'm told diesels almost always make at least stock power (some +10bhp).
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^^ if you mean mine, its still stock :sad1:
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Yeah when I read your profile it said stage 1 I assumed it was the same car!
I'm sitting in the waiting room now and the cars on the dyno soon.
No my old GTI was stage 1 :happy2:
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APR recently released sofytware for the Cr140 iirc. think the CR170 is imminent as well, so might be another option for those interested.
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Here's some results from the 2 170cr m6 golfs we tuned today:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=148200272014984&set=pcb.148200308681647&type=1&theater
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=148199708681707&set=pcb.148200078681670&type=1&theater
Manuals always seem to make better peak bhp gains.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fvv184%2Famyhedley1%2Fimage_zpsdcd8afae.jpg&hash=330d1b3d243d2e1c3096063826c3d0c506e966d5)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fvv184%2Famyhedley1%2Fimage_zps94df56d8.jpg&hash=37a59a4e372f927ffb30f6c5065214eaaa899f32)
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Just back from Sedox and the car is totally transformed.
I'll post the graphs up later but as I thought the car only made 166bhp standard and was down on torque slightly.
Finished figures were 210bhp and torque at 300ftlbs
Car goes much much better and seems to be better on fuel!
On the way home sitting on cruise at 85mph the trip was trading 50.2mpg
The total average has been sitting on 44.6mpg but after returning it has risen to 47.2mpg.
So far so good and I'm extremely pleased.
Hi, glad you are happy with the results, sorry I didn't get much time to chat but due to a mistake on the booking system that bloody Alfa turned up for a service which meant that I had to get out of the office to deal with it and get my hands dirty, just one of those days.
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Manuals always seem to make better peak bhp gains.
Why do you reckon that is? It doesnt happen in the TFSi DSG cars does it?
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I've never got to the bottom of why, I have done enough research in the software to eliminate any limiting by the DSG software, and it doesn't seem to be an engine ECU software issue either. Most manuals use an EDC17CP14 ECU and DSG use an EDC17C46 ECU, the method of tuning is the same but we never get quite the same gains from the C46 ECU. It's not just us either, Revo seem to get the same outcome.
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What are the higher stage tuning options and outputs like with the PD and CR170 engines?
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What are the higher stage tuning options and outputs like with the PD and CR170 engines?
Typically DPF removal with stg2 on the CR will see 350ftlb and 220+ bhp. But we tend to limit torque at 330ftlb and aim for a nice flat curve so that torque doesn't drop off at high rpm. These cars are still new(ish) and on stock clutches and used as everyday cars so no point going for the big numbers and sacrificing reliability. Within a few years I'm expecting to see 250bhp and 380ftlb being easy to achieve with turbo work and an updated clutch.
The 143cr is the pick of the bunch, we have an Ibiza with dpf off and stage 2 making 220bhp and 350ftlb on stock clutch, it's an easy match for a stg2 golf gti tfsi and returns 60mpg on a run.
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I take it the 143 is just a detuned 170 then?
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I'm liking this thread a lot :party:
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@PDT - do the manual clutches handle the torque at Stage 1 ok?
I'm worried about remapping since my focus ST, then my GTI both had clutch slip straight after the remap :sad1:
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This was one of the things I asked Dave and they seem to have trailered their maps torque levels in a way not to cause clutch slip.
Dave said they hadn't had any clutch problems on stage 1 tune and from checking the net they've done enough of them to know.
The car pulls very well but not in a savage way more oem smoothness but with an extra grin.
Sounds good to me :happy2:
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Most people get clutch slip because they drive incorrectly.
Adding the extra power and torque means you can get similar levels of acceleration say in 5th gear as a stock car would in 4th, so people dont bother using the gearbox correctly and downshift as they should and instead rely on the torque to pull them through. WOT pulls in high gears from low rpm destroys clutches as it subjects it to peak torque levels for prolonged periods. I never had any clutch slip in my Focus ST, Octavia vRS, my current fabia or any of my other vehicles all of which have been tinkered with, tracked and abused because I change down gear when i want to speed up.
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What are the higher stage tuning options and outputs like with the PD and CR170 engines?
Typically DPF removal with stg2 on the CR will see 350ftlb and 220+ bhp. But we tend to limit torque at 330ftlb and aim for a nice flat curve so that torque doesn't drop off at high rpm. These cars are still new(ish) and on stock clutches and used as everyday cars so no point going for the big numbers and sacrificing reliability. Within a few years I'm expecting to see 250bhp and 380ftlb being easy to achieve with turbo work and an updated clutch.
Do you have any dyno graphs of stage 2 cars preferably with either stage 1 or stock curves on as well?
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What are the higher stage tuning options and outputs like with the PD and CR170 engines?
Typically DPF removal with stg2 on the CR will see 350ftlb and 220+ bhp. But we tend to limit torque at 330ftlb and aim for a nice flat curve so that torque doesn't drop off at high rpm. These cars are still new(ish) and on stock clutches and used as everyday cars so no point going for the big numbers and sacrificing reliability. Within a few years I'm expecting to see 250bhp and 380ftlb being easy to achieve with turbo work and an updated clutch.
The 143cr is the pick of the bunch, we have an Ibiza with dpf off and stage 2 making 220bhp and 350ftlb on stock clutch, it's an easy match for a stg2 golf gti tfsi and returns 60mpg on a run.
Is this engine in any of the Golfs?
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Most people get clutch slip because they drive incorrectly.
Adding the extra power and torque means you can get similar levels of acceleration say in 5th gear as a stock car would in 4th, so people dont bother using the gearbox correctly and downshift as they should and instead rely on the torque to pull them through. WOT pulls in high gears from low rpm destroys clutches as it subjects it to peak torque levels for prolonged periods. I never had any clutch slip in my Focus ST, Octavia vRS, my current fabia or any of my other vehicles all of which have been tinkered with, tracked and abused because I change down gear when i want to speed up.
I know what your saying but mine slipped driving through the gears :sad1:
Slipped like a b*tch on the dyno too. When back to stock, no issues
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What are the higher stage tuning options and outputs like with the PD and CR170 engines?
Typically DPF removal with stg2 on the CR will see 350ftlb and 220+ bhp. But we tend to limit torque at 330ftlb and aim for a nice flat curve so that torque doesn't drop off at high rpm. These cars are still new(ish) and on stock clutches and used as everyday cars so no point going for the big numbers and sacrificing reliability. Within a few years I'm expecting to see 250bhp and 380ftlb being easy to achieve with turbo work and an updated clutch.
The 143cr is the pick of the bunch, we have an Ibiza with dpf off and stage 2 making 220bhp and 350ftlb on stock clutch, it's an easy match for a stg2 golf gti tfsi and returns 60mpg on a run.
Is this engine in any of the Golfs?
Mk6 GTD.
The mk5 had the PD engines (different to common rail).
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Hmmm tempting!!
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Lots of my mates have sold S3's, M3s etc for diesels. I can see why your tempted :evilgrin:
The CR engines are really responsive, and with the DPF you don't get the slightest whiff of smoke :wink: - at JKM last, the mk5 GTI's looked like diesels compared to mine :grin:
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@PDT - do the manual clutches handle the torque at Stage 1 ok?
I'm worried about remapping since my focus ST, then my GTI both had clutch slip straight after the remap :sad1:
I ran Stage2+ on my PD170 for 2 years on OEM clutch i only took it out because i wanted to upgrade
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
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@PDT - do the manual clutches handle the torque at Stage 1 ok?
I'm worried about remapping since my focus ST, then my GTI both had clutch slip straight after the remap :sad1:
I ran Stage2+ on my PD170 for 2 years on OEM clutch i only took it out because i wanted to upgrade
Yep its the driver who destroys the clutch normally, although if a cars second hand you dont know the life its had before hand.
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@PDT - do the manual clutches handle the torque at Stage 1 ok?
I'm worried about remapping since my focus ST, then my GTI both had clutch slip straight after the remap :sad1:
I ran Stage2+ on my PD170 for 2 years on OEM clutch i only took it out because i wanted to upgrade
Yep its the driver who destroys the clutch normally, although if a cars second hand you dont know the life its had before hand.
A lot of it is down to the driver, but the responsible thing to do at stage 1 is to limit the damage that the driver can do in the map.
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DPF Delete doesn't seem too risky with current Diesel MOT, the smoke test will be very much down to the Tester's interpretation :wink:
Taken from MOT Testing Manual:
'The criterion is density and not volume of smoke. The description ‘dense smoke’ includes smoke or vapour which largely obscures vision.'
I'm sure any smoke issues could be managed with an Italian tune up beforehand.
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Smoke limit on a car that we did DPF removal on recently for MOT is 3.0
It passed its MOT last week with a reading of 0.3
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hi marshall did you have to have the ecu taken out to map it cheers
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how much was it ,and who by ,where are they based thanks
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Marshall, how many MPG do you think you have gained in total?
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Marshall can you resize your photo in your signature please.... its massive! :grin:
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:love: