MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: berg on March 21, 2013, 10:26:18 am
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Was talking to Alex about this and considering it. I know people have changed it at WMI stage, stage 3 etc but was wondering if anyone had taken this step at 2+?
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Also spoken to Alex as was considering it at STage 2+ as mine makes a squeaky noise not just the priming buzz...
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Also spoken to Alex as was considering it at STage 2+ as mine makes a squeaky noise not just the priming buzz...
I think a few people have, Ive been considering it as well. :wink:
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Perhaps a mini GB if the benefits can be quantified at this level of tune?
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Changed it to what an upgraded one or just renewed it.
as the new versions seems a bit different to the old ones, l asume it is for the better :happy2:
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yeh i was just going to change it to the newer version. . Should be pretty straightforward :happy2:
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Yeah it will take you longer trying to get it out with out spilling any petrol :happy2:
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My take on this is a mod should add some tangable benefit.
If your present lpfp is meeting or exceeding the requested vs actual pressure output and also supplies enough petrol to maintain your hpfp fuel rail pressure then the mod would be a pointless expenditure.
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My take on this is a mod should add some tangable benefit.
If your present lpfp is meeting or exceeding the requested vs actual pressure output and also supplies enough petrol to maintain your hpfp fuel rail pressure then the mod would be a pointless expenditure.
I think my lpfp needs done as top range it feels like there is a fuel cut for a split second every so often, Still need to log is and see what is going on :happy2:
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My take on this is a mod should add some tangable benefit.
If your present lpfp is meeting or exceeding the requested vs actual pressure output and also supplies enough petrol to maintain your hpfp fuel rail pressure then the mod would be a pointless expenditure.
i have read about a few failing?
Personally i think there is benefit to changing a part that could potentially fail as the miles pile on, maybe to an updated part.
What options are there for aftermarket or new oem pumps?
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How to?
Prices?
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I've fitted RS3 / TTRS LPFP
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I've fitted RS3 / TTRS LPFP
How easy/hard was that to do matey? :happy2:
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I had it fitted at AKS :happy2:
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^^^ For you then easy ^^^ :signLOL: :signLOL: :signLOL:
Did you ever get your gear gaiter re-trimmed
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Not yet, I would like to have some trimming or more flocking done
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I was under the impression that these literally run from a 12V source and pump at a really low rate to the the engine, ive spoken to a vag master tech who wasn't able to guarantee it but does doubt there is very very very little point in upgrading it, only benefit maybe prime faster slightly but can't see there being an increase in performance from it, it just delivers to the engine and doesnt run under massive pressure like a hpfp,
only way I can think of it is like maybe upgrading your washer pump :signLOL:
he couldn't guarantee it too me and im no expert but id want too see dyno results and data logs before I buy one....and soon :laugh: I need a new one
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I dont expect to see any gains. Some people have claimed gains.
I did it because the lpfp works hard to supply the engine, the TTRS pump will be under much less stress which long term for me means reliability. Also future proofs for possible BT plans as it provides lots more headroom :innocent:
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I was under the impression that these literally run from a 12V source and pump at a really low rate to the the engine, ive spoken to a vag master tech who wasn't able to guarantee it but does doubt there is very very very little point in upgrading it, only benefit maybe prime faster slightly but can't see there being an increase in performance from it, it just delivers to the engine and doesnt run under massive pressure like a hpfp,
only way I can think of it is like maybe upgrading your washer pump :signLOL:
he couldn't guarantee it too me and im no expert but id want too see dyno results and data logs before I buy one....and soon :laugh: I need a new one
Master tech! You mean apprentice.
Variable load pump controlled by its own ecu.
All the logs are in my build thread. Can flow and hold much higher pressure at lower load. Basically gives the hpfp more help allowing it to work under less strain. After fitting I noticed more mid range and top end grunt. Hpfp pressure was also more stable.
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I was under the impression that these literally run from a 12V source and pump at a really low rate to the the engine, ive spoken to a vag master tech who wasn't able to guarantee it but does doubt there is very very very little point in upgrading it, only benefit maybe prime faster slightly but can't see there being an increase in performance from it, it just delivers to the engine and doesnt run under massive pressure like a hpfp,
only way I can think of it is like maybe upgrading your washer pump :signLOL:
he couldn't guarantee it too me and im no expert but id want too see dyno results and data logs before I buy one....and soon :laugh: I need a new one
Master tech! You mean apprentice.
Variable load pump controlled by its own ecu.
All the logs are in my build thread. Can flow and hold much higher pressure at lower load. Basically gives the hpfp more help allowing it to work under less strain. After fitting I noticed more mid range and top end grunt. Hpfp pressure was also more stable.
Sweeeeeeet :smiley:
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might put the ttrs lpfp in then and the apr hpfp at same time and get rid of the autotech internals
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I was under the impression that these literally run from a 12V source and pump at a really low rate to the the engine, ive spoken to a vag master tech who wasn't able to guarantee it but does doubt there is very very very little point in upgrading it, only benefit maybe prime faster slightly but can't see there being an increase in performance from it, it just delivers to the engine and doesnt run under massive pressure like a hpfp,
only way I can think of it is like maybe upgrading your washer pump :signLOL:
he couldn't guarantee it too me and im no expert but id want too see dyno results and data logs before I buy one....and soon :laugh: I need a new one
Master tech! You mean apprentice.
Variable load pump controlled by its own ecu.
All the logs are in my build thread. Can flow and hold much higher pressure at lower load. Basically gives the hpfp more help allowing it to work under less strain. After fitting I noticed more mid range and top end grunt. Hpfp pressure was also more stable.
How straight forward would this be Alex?? Variable load pump controlled by its own ecu
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All you need is a pump and a blanking plug when running it in a fwd car. Ive had some cnc plugs made for the job.
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Pitty I had not found this out sooner, as I have just fitted an up to date LPFP
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I've been looking into this too. What blocks are used to log lpfp actual and requested.
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All you need is a pump and a blanking plug when running it in a fwd car. Ive had some cnc plugs made for the job.
Is the TTRS/RS3 lpfp a direct fit into the S3 then Alex?
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I've been looking into this too. What blocks are used to log lpfp actual and requested.
231 :smiley:
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Duty cycle too?
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Duty cycle too?
That block also gives % load.
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whats the part number im asking audi for? :smiley:
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All you need is a pump and a blanking plug when running it in a fwd car. Ive had some cnc plugs made for the job.
Is the TTRS/RS3 lpfp a direct fit into the S3 then Alex?
Maybe :happy2:
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Yes straight fit in the S3's and R's
Been running one for 8 months now
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alex, do you know what page number the logs are in in your build thread? ta
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whats the part number im asking audi for? :smiley:
:happy2: ?????
All you need is a pump and a blanking plug when running it in a fwd car. Ive had some cnc plugs made for the job.
Can the blanking plugs still be got ok Alex
thanks
Neil
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There's a lot of smoke and mirrors around this whole thing! :grin:
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lol
does it work?
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There's a lot of smoke and mirrors around this whole thing! :grin:
speak up Ed, do you have any more info/opinion on the mod?
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Logs:
Friday 2 November 2012 18:25:58:32573 VCDS Version: Release 11.11.4 (x64) Data version: 20120807
1Z0 907 115 A 2.0l R4/4V TFSI 0040
Group A: '003 Group B: '231 Group C: '230
Engine Speed Intake Air Mass Throttle Drive Ignition Pressure Pressure Load Rail Pressure Rail Pressure Rail Pressure
TIME Angle Sensor 1 Timing Angle TIME TIME (specified) (actual) Difference
Marker STAMP /min g/s % °BTDC STAMP bar bar % STAMP bar bar bar
0.04 2800 61 99.6 24 0.12 6 5.87 52.2 0.24 128.17 132.76 -4.6
0.38 3000 83.72 99.6 19.5 0.51 6 6.09 53.3 0.63 129.77 135.97 -6.2
0.76 3200 114.69 99.6 14.3 0.89 6 6.13 57.3 1.02 129.96 134.97 -5.01
1.14 3520 156.89 99.6 6 1.27 6 6.03 64.3 1.41 129.99 127.19 2.79
1.54 3880 173.06 99.6 2.3 1.66 6 6.08 67.5 1.78 129.99 127.24 2.75
1.93 4200 186.17 99.6 3 2.05 6 6.11 70.2 2.17 129.99 130.28 -0.29
2.3 4560 199.53 99.6 8.3 2.44 6 6.11 69 2.56 129.99 131 -1.01
2.69 4880 213.33 99.6 5.3 2.81 6 5.98 74.1 2.95 129.99 135.13 -5.14
3.08 5240 221.36 99.6 9.8 3.2 6 5.99 74.5 3.32 129.99 134.05 -4.06
3.47 5560 231.72 99.6 10.5 3.59 6 5.97 75.3 3.72 129.99 134.92 -4.93
3.85 5880 242.36 99.6 10.5 3.98 6 5.91 80 4.1 129.99 134.77 -4.78
4.23 6160 250.31 99.6 11.3 4.36 5.85 5.83 71.8 4.49 129.99 135.29 -5.3
4.62 6440 253.03 99.6 9.8 4.74 5.63 5.69 62 4.87 129.99 137.12 -7.13
5.02 6720 255.83 99.6 12.8 5.14 5.41 5.08 71 5.27 129.99 140.14 -10.15
122.78 2080 45.47 99.6 6.8 122.92 6 6.23 48.2 122.65 110.58 111.39 -0.81
123.16 2240 50.25 99.6 5.3 123.29 6 6.2 48.6 123.04 115.76 116.62 -0.86
123.56 2400 54.14 99.6 6.8 123.68 6 6.16 49 123.43 121.62 122.96 -1.34
123.95 2560 63.67 99.6 6 124.07 6 6.13 50.2 123.8 127.14 127.62 -0.48
124.32 2720 80.89 99.6 11.3 124.46 6 6.1 52.2 124.19 129.65 131.53 -1.89
124.71 2920 102.81 99.6 10.5 124.83 6 6.07 55.7 124.58 129.95 131.37 -1.42
125.1 3200 132.75 99.6 6 125.22 6 6.05 58.8 124.97 129.99 131.31 -1.33
125.49 3480 159.03 99.6 3.8 125.61 6 5.92 64.3 125.35 129.99 128.57 1.42
125.87 3840 175.92 99.6 3 126 6 5.94 70.2 125.74 129.99 127.67 2.32
126.25 4080 179.14 99.6 6 126.37 6 6.12 67.8 126.13 129.99 128.4 1.59
126.65 4400 190.83 99.6 5.3 126.77 6 6.15 66.7 126.52 129.99 131.69 -1.7
127.04 4680 204.08 99.6 6 127.15 6 6 72.5 126.9 129.99 131.99 -2
127.41 4920 209.31 99.6 8.3 127.55 6 6.03 71 127.28 129.99 131.18 -1.19
127.8 5240 203.5 99.6 9.8 127.92 6 6.02 71 127.68 129.99 133.49 -3.5
128.19 5440 216.06 99.6 12 128.31 6 6.03 70.6 128.07 129.99 134.22 -4.23
128.58 5720 230.39 99.6 11.3 128.7 5.9 5.9 67.8 128.43 129.99 130.38 -0.39
128.95 5960 241.11 99.6 11.3 129.09 5.72 5.73 62 128.83 129.99 133.02 -3.03
129.34 6200 247.28 99.6 12 129.47 5.54 5.19 72.9 129.21 129.99 135.83 -5.84
129.73 6440 252.44 99.6 12.8 129.85 5.36 5.23 62.7 129.6 129.99 132.3 -2.31
Friday 2 November 2012 18:39:27:32573 VCDS Version: Release 11.11.4 (x64) Data version: 20120807
1Z0 907 115 A 2.0l R4/4V TFSI 0040
Group A: '004 Group B: '020 Group C: '031
Engine Speed Voltage Supply Coolant Intake Air Cylinder 1 Ignition Cylinder 2 Ignition Cylinder 3 Ignition Cylinder 4 Ignition Lambda Sensor Lambda Sensor
TIME Temperature Temperature TIME Angle Delay Angle Delay Angle Delay Angle Delay TIME Current Value Specified Value
Marker STAMP /min V °C °C STAMP °KW °KW °KW °KW STAMP
0.25 1600 14.1 79 25 0.04 0 0 0 0 0.13 1.04 1
0.64 1680 14.194 79 25 0.39 0 0 0 0 0.51 1.11 0.95
1.03 1800 14.194 79 25 0.76 0 0 0 0 0.9 0.96 0.91
1.43 1960 14.194 79 25 1.15 0 0 0 0 1.28 0.91 0.91
1.8 2080 14.288 79 24 1.54 0 0 0 0 1.67 0.89 0.91
2.19 2240 14.194 79 24 1.93 0 0 0 0 2.06 0.89 0.91
2.57 2400 14.1 79 24 2.31 0 0 0 0 2.45 0.88 0.9
2.97 2560 14.1 79 24 2.7 0 0 0 0 2.82 0.86 0.88
3.34 2720 14.194 79 24 3.09 0 0 0 0 3.21 0.87 0.88
3.73 2960 14.194 79 24 3.48 0 0 0 0 3.6 0.86 0.86
4.12 3240 14.194 79 24 3.85 0 0 0 0 3.99 0.85 0.84
4.51 3520 14.194 79 24 4.24 0 0 0 0 4.37 0.79 0.79
4.88 3800 14.1 79 23 4.63 0 0 -3 0 4.76 0.77 0.78
5.28 4120 14.194 79 23 5.02 0 0 -3 0 5.15 0.75 0.77
5.67 4440 14.1 79 23 5.4 0 0 -3 0 5.54 0.76 0.77
6.05 4720 14.1 79 23 5.79 0 0 -3 0 5.91 0.77 0.79
6.43 5040 14.1 79 23 6.18 0 0 -2.3 0 6.3 0.78 0.8
6.82 5320 14.1 79 23 6.57 0 0 -1.5 0 6.69 0.81 0.82
7.21 5600 14.1 79 24 6.94 0 0 -1.5 0 7.08 0.81 0.82
7.6 5880 14.194 79 24 7.33 0 0 -1.5 0 7.46 0.8 0.82
7.97 6160 14.1 79 24 7.72 0 0 -0.8 0 7.85 0.8 0.82
8.36 6400 14.194 79 24 8.11 0 0 0 -0.8 8.24 0.81 0.82
8.75 6640 14.1 79 25 8.49 0 0 0 -0.8 8.63 0.8 0.82
9.15 6880 14.1 79 25 8.87 0 0 0 -0.8 9 0.8 0.82
52.03 1640 14.1 77 25 52.15 0 0 0 0 52.28 0.98 1
56.29 1840 14.194 77 25 56.41 0 0 0 0 56.16 1.12 0.97
56.68 1920 14.194 77 24 56.8 0 0 0 0 56.55 0.95 0.91
57.07 2040 14.194 77 24 57.19 0 0 0 0 56.92 0.91 0.91
57.44 2160 14.194 77 24 57.58 0 0 0 0 57.31 0.89 0.91
57.83 2320 14.194 77 24 57.95 0 0 0 0 57.7 0.89 0.91
58.22 2480 14.1 77 24 58.34 0 0 0 0 58.09 0.87 0.89
58.61 2640 14.1 77 24 58.73 0 0 0 0 58.47 0.85 0.88
58.98 2840 14.1 77 24 59.12 0 0 0 0 58.85 0.87 0.87
59.38 3080 14.1 77 24 59.5 0 0 0 0 59.25 0.84 0.85
59.77 3400 14.1 77 24 59.88 0 0 0 0 59.64 0.8 0.78
60.16 3680 14.1 77 24 60.28 0 0 0 0 60.01 0.8 0.79
60.53 3960 14.1 78 24 60.67 0 0 0 0 60.4 0.77 0.79
60.92 4280 14.1 78 24 61.04 0 0 0 0 60.79 0.77 0.78
61.31 4600 14.1 78 23 61.43 0 0 0 0 61.18 0.79 0.8
61.7 4880 14.1 78 23 61.82 0 0 0 0 61.56 0.77 0.77
62.08 5200 14.1 78 24 62.21 0 0 0 0 61.94 0.78 0.8
62.46 5440 14.194 78 24 62.59 0 0 0 0 62.34 0.8 0.82
62.85 5760 14.1 78 24 62.98 0 0 0 0 62.73 0.8 0.82
63.24 5960 14.006 78 24 63.37 0 0 0 0 63.1 0.81 0.82
63.62 6200 14.1 78 25 63.76 0 0 0 -0.8 63.49 0.8 0.82
102.29 3160 14.1 74 20 102.43 0 0 0 0 102.56 0.96 0.93
102.68 3280 14.1 74 20 102.8 0 0 -3 0 102.94 0.84 0.83
103.07 3400 14.194 74 21 103.19 0 0 -3 0 103.31 0.79 0.8
103.46 3600 14.1 74 21 103.58 0 0 -3 0 103.7 0.77 0.77
103.84 3760 14.194 74 21 103.98 0 0 -3 0 104.1 0.77 0.78
104.22 3920 14.1 74 21 104.34 0 0 -3 0 104.48 0.75 0.77
104.61 4080 14.1 74 21 104.74 0 0 -2.3 0 104.86 0.79 0.8
105 4240 14.006 74 21 105.12 0 0 -2.3 0 105.25 0.79 0.79
105.38 4400 14.1 74 21 105.52 0 0 -1.5 0 105.65 0.79 0.8
105.77 4560 14.1 74 21 105.89 0 0 -0.8 0 106.04 0.8 0.8
106.16 4720 14.1 74 21 106.28 0 0 -0.8 0 106.4 0.8 0.81
106.55 4920 14.1 74 22 106.67 0 0 0 0 106.79 0.8 0.81
106.93 5040 14.1 74 22 107.07 0 0 0 0 107.19 0.81 0.82
107.31 5200 14.1 74 22 107.43 0 0 0 -1.5 107.58 0.8 0.82
107.71 5360 14.1 74 23 107.83 0 0 0 -1.5 107.95 0.81 0.82
108.09 5480 14.006 74 23 108.22 0 0 0 -1.5 108.34 0.87 0.9
108.47 5480 14.1 74 23 108.6 0 0 0 0 108.73 0.95 0.98
108.86 5440 14.1 74 21 108.98 0 0 0 0 109.12 0.95 1
109.24 5360 14.1 74 20 109.37 0 0 0 0 109.49 1.06 1
109.64 5320 14.1 74 20 109.76 0 0 0 0 109.89 1.27 0.95
110.02 5280 14.1 74 20 110.15 0 0 0 -0.8 110.27 0.92 0.88
110.4 5320 14.1 74 20 110.52 0 0 0 -2.3 110.67 0.8 0.8
110.79 5440 14.1 74 21 110.92 0 0 0 -2.3 111.04 0.8 0.81
111.19 5560 14.1 74 22 111.3 0 0 0 -1.5 111.43 0.79 0.81
111.56 5720 14.1 74 23 111.7 0 0 0 -1.5 111.82 0.81 0.82
111.94 5840 14.006 74 23 112.07 0 0 0 -0.8 112.21 0.8 0.82
112.33 5960 14.1 74 24 112.46 0 0 0 -0.8 112.58 0.8 0.82
112.73 6080 14.006 74 24 112.85 0 0 0 -0.8 112.97 0.81 0.82
113.1 6200 14.1 74 24 113.24 0 -0.8 0 0 113.36 0.82 0.82
113.49 6360 14.1 74 25 113.61 0 -0.8 -0.8 -0.8 113.75 0.8 0.82
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whats the part number im asking audi for? :smiley:
:happy2: ?????
All you need is a pump and a blanking plug when running it in a fwd car. Ive had some cnc plugs made for the job.
Can the blanking plugs still be got ok Alex
thanks
Neil
Blanks are in stock.
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Here's the deal. The TTRS pump does not work on all cars that it fits into.
The problem is the pump controller.
The TTRS pump can burn up the pump controller on most models. So far, only Golf R, some S3's and some SLCR's are verified to work with the standard pump controller.
However, you can buy this and know that it will work no matter what. :driver:
"Low Pressure Fuel Pump System
The APR Low Pressure Fuel Pump System is a complete, OEM style, PWM controlled drop in fuel pump and controller solution designed to fit cleanly in the OEM location. The upgraded pump provides adequate low-pressure fuel to the APR High Pressure Fuel Pump to support the power levels produced by the APR Stage III Turbocharger System."
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.goapr.com%2Fincludes%2Fimg%2Fproducts%2Fstage3_20t_ea113_awd_lpfp_system.jpg&hash=ab0352d34b143b49dd408e5b53abe17cea1056e2)
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oh !
how much is the next Q?
and how much of a difference will the apr one make :happy2:
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oh !
how much is the next Q?
and how much of a difference will the apr one make :happy2:
Give me a week and I'll have the pricing. You can buy the entire kit with the intank pump and controller or just the controller separately.
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what is the difference, between the 2 pumps
or with just the controller.
:drinking:
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what is the difference, between the 2 pumps
or with just the controller.
:drinking:
If you have an uprated intank pump already like a TTRS one, you can buy just the controller so the TTRS one will work properly. If you don't have a TTRS one already, you can buy our complete kit. Our pump does not flow more than a TTRS one and both are plenty for upwards of 600BHP or more.
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:happy2:
cheers Keith
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so the pump controller in a Golf Mk5 could fail.
has anyone got the TTRS lpfp in a Golf as Alex's is a Skoda, Mike's a Seat...
alex, have you had any issues with oem pump controllers?
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I have one in BWA Seat Leon, Golf R and SLCR currently and they seem to be ok so far. I know the Golf R and SLCR should be good but we've found that in China for example, it won't work on the Golf R's there.
We've done a Scirocco R and it burned up the controller in about 5k miles.
The issues we've seen are that some cars won't even idle correctly immediately after install, some cars will burn up their standard controller in less than 50 miles and others will burn it up in 5k miles.
Instead of playing the game of who has a controller that will work, we decided to make one that we know will work for all.
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so the pump controller in a Golf Mk5 could fail.
has anyone got the TTRS lpfp in a Golf as Alex's is a Skoda, Mike's a Seat...
alex, have you had any issues with oem pump controllers?
I have the TTRS in my golf on stock controller, so far no issues related to controller IMO, but are upgrading to the USP intank solution soon :happy2:
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so the pump controller in a Golf Mk5 could fail.
has anyone got the TTRS lpfp in a Golf as Alex's is a Skoda, Mike's a Seat...
alex, have you had any issues with oem pump controllers?
I have the TTRS in my golf on stock controller, so far no issues related to controller IMO, but are upgrading to the USP intank solution soon :happy2:
The TTRS isn't enough for you? Or why are you changing?
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so the pump controller in a Golf Mk5 could fail.
has anyone got the TTRS lpfp in a Golf as Alex's is a Skoda, Mike's a Seat...
alex, have you had any issues with oem pump controllers?
I have the TTRS in my golf on stock controller, so far no issues related to controller IMO, but are upgrading to the USP intank solution soon :happy2:
The TTRS isn't enough for you? Or why are you changing?
I want a bit more headroom, and i also want to see how much more the USP solution offers compared to the TTRS. I must say that your solution seems well thought out, any insights as to the difference between the controller supplied by you and the stock one that are supposed to fail/fails in certain vehicles? :drinking:
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so the pump controller in a Golf Mk5 could fail.
has anyone got the TTRS lpfp in a Golf as Alex's is a Skoda, Mike's a Seat...
alex, have you had any issues with oem pump controllers?
I have the TTRS in my golf on stock controller, so far no issues related to controller IMO, but are upgrading to the USP intank solution soon :happy2:
The TTRS isn't enough for you? Or why are you changing?
I want a bit more headroom, and i also want to see how much more the USP solution offers compared to the TTRS. I must say that your solution seems well thought out, any insights as to the difference between the controller supplied by you and the stock one that are supposed to fail/fails in certain vehicles? :drinking:
More headroom than 600BHP of flow?
From what I understand, we've made one that has stronger electrical components that are needed to keep them from burning up. Which components I do not know. The uprated intanks draw more current on the controller and the controllers that fail weren't strong enough to cope with the extra current demands.
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Then a price for your controller would be nice :happy2:
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Then a price for your controller would be nice :happy2:
about £500.00 i think (for full package)
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Then a price for your controller would be nice :happy2:
about £500.00 i think (for full package)
I believe he mentioned the controller would be able to be bought as a stand alone item :happy2:
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Then a price for your controller would be nice :happy2:
about £500.00 i think (for full package)
I believe he mentioned the controller would be able to be bought as a stand alone item :happy2:
That's just the controller.
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Then a price for your controller would be nice :happy2:
about £500.00 i think (for full package)
I believe he mentioned the controller would be able to be bought as a stand alone item :happy2:
That's just the controller.
:laugh: