MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: vag12 on April 09, 2013, 02:31:30 am
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I changed by discs about two months ago from euro car parts and found out the are awful and judder violently when braking from high speeds, can anyone recommend me anything else that can actually handle the heat lol
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渵怋奷閹滀磠冱一絓赽倬姁仨峓屮，楢絭屮秅盻楀侘帄乇昍蓒袀圠坭。焥攽伓蕖瑂嶴价一菀淖悜侕玊氠乜，嫊嵉屮冼壴裬枍宄亍耵蝁毘夃岪。夃倧芢偤秏纗睟滏庄忔柧芅弢枌戺敯屮岝朅頏。尐淯姇婕砉瓥嫈獉阠伓峊杚泙芴狁蜌兀玢銙亃。覂一苠偢趄葔丌榤獥勼，埽兀侳袸惲鉯屮漰殳犰。埡一峈掑覕趎丌輍頲旡，梒乜玴偞湆搢乇牄仉刉。勼埒佶徖胘灠葙葅扤邔炟毐旻彾忺溳乜屇僓鉏。
!!!!!!!!!!
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渵怋奷閹滀磠冱一絓赽倬姁仨峓屮，楢絭屮秅盻楀侘帄乇昍蓒袀圠坭。焥攽伓蕖瑂嶴价一菀淖悜侕玊氠乜，嫊嵉屮冼壴裬枍宄亍耵蝁毘夃岪。夃倧芢偤秏纗睟滏庄忔柧芅弢枌戺敯屮岝朅頏。尐淯姇婕砉瓥嫈獉阠伓峊杚泙芴狁蜌兀玢銙亃。覂一苠偢趄葔丌榤獥勼，埽兀侳袸惲鉯屮漰殳犰。埡一峈掑覕趎丌輍頲旡，梒乜玴偞湆搢乇牄仉刉。勼埒佶徖胘灠葙葅扤邔炟毐旻彾忺溳乜屇僓鉏。
!!!!!!!!!!
I am sorry Dave, it does not matter one iota whether you prefer Chinese Lesbians to the European type. You can still only wear 6 inch heels when out on a date with either. Hope this helps. :happy2:
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What pads are you using?
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TC your mandarin needs looking at....
Was just explaining the warranty procedure.....
Allegedly the "Pagid" de-icer they sell isn't up to much either....
Think we'll have this branding arrangement for another 18 months yet
Back on topic..... As the good doctor says what pads are you using?
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I very much doubt it's the heat, have you checked your pistons to ensure they are free moving and not sticky?
Did you replace the pads at the same time?
Standard OE brake discs are the best and then some quality pads and fluid on top of that.
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Im not sure what discs mine are (daveb will be able to tell you). They are drilled and they have had tons of abuse on the road... and they have worn perfectly, no warping.
I presume the ones bought were cheapo discs... ?
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Go to VW/Audi and buy the OEM discs.
I currently have some drilled and grooved discs that DaveB supplied to the original owner of my brakes and with new pads and a slight skim have now lasted the best part of 2 years.
I know Jim @ JKM uses OEM discs on track just with a change of pads to something more exotic.
Yes they weigh the same as a small moon but they are more than capable of with standing some abuse.
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Generally they would have been Bremtech - green black box.
OEM would work also but only available plain discs of course.
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I've had trouble with 2 sets of ECP "pagid" discs and pads on my daily Bora TDI now, and won't be going near them again. Not sure if its warped discs or pad deposits causing bad vibration but I should have learnt the first time :smiley:
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If you really want something that's reasonably priced and work well, I've used M-tec brakes before, they provide discs, you can either have them plain, drilled, grooved, drilled AND grooved or slotted. Plus you can get some pretty funky coatings as well in terms of a black or silver coating, to prevent rust.
I think it's around £125 delivered for a set of pads with a coating. Not bad really, worked well on my old 280mm setup.. arguably under a lot more stress than my 345s.
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Nothing wrong with pagid infact If you compare the Pagid pad's to your OEM pads there exactly the same with all the same numbers on! What does that tell you?
Did you clean the hubs up before putting the new disk on?
Did you give them chance to bed in?
Are your sliders free?
:jumpmove:
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So someone's saying the pagid parts and OEM is the same with part numbers is that correct? And am using brembo sport pads and bought the discs at the same time, am sure the discs are the problem being cheap as I thought these were the OEM replacemts anyway.
So now I need to to get a proper good set where to?
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Whilst Pagid branded items did give some reassurance of oem equivalent quality a few years back sadly nowadays discs / pads via ECP are generic Chinese tat dressed up and sold under the Pagid brand name to which ECP have the sole rights to in the UK, as DaveB has already said they use the Pagid name on air freshener and screenwash too..
I've had juddering/fade issues with a set of EPC 'Pagid' discs for my S3 setup as have many others on here, before I threw them in the bin I googled the foundry casting marks on the discs and found they were proudly made in china.. No such problems with my 2 subsequent sets of OE discs via the dealer and only £106 inc vat a pair via TPS :happy2:
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Whilst Pagid branded items did give some reassurance of oem equivalent quality a few years back sadly nowadays discs / pads via ECP are generic Chinese tat dressed up and sold under the Pagid brand name to which ECP have the sole rights to in the UK, as DaveB has already said they use the Pagid name on air freshener and screenwash too..
I've had juddering/fade issues with a set of EPC 'Pagid' discs for my S3 setup as have many others on here, before I threw them in the bin I googled the foundry casting marks on the discs and found they were proudly made in china.. No such problems with my 2 subsequent sets of OE discs via the dealer and only £106 inc vat a pair via TPS :happy2:
Well that's excellent I will be getting my next set from dealers, other them OEM are there any updated options out there slotted/drilled and where to get them from?
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So what's the final verdict here, as it seems a little mixed to say the least :signLOL:
I'm probably going to be in the market as well soon for either new pads or discs, so has everybody agreed on OE ones?
It would be a bit nicer though to go for something a bit different like drilled or grooved :drool:
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I would avoid drilled. Get grooved.
And Mtec is your place if you want that... as I said, had them before, worked well and had no issues.
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Drilled are a pain in the ass..... sh*t out loads of brake dust
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But having drilled, do they not aid in stopping power, plus to help keep things cooler?
The Brake man Mr DaveB is needed for a debate.... :rolleye:
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Drilled and grooved are far noisier than just plain discs. Whether there is a huge increase in braking performance I can't say not having run them back to back.
Probably plain for me next time unless I can find someone local that can do J-hooks.
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Had a dig round and found these....
These are Brembo -11 castings which have been CNC'd drilled into the Vanes so not hotspots hence hence the curved pattern.
I honestly forgot I had them
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fw69%2Fdave_brown1970%2F180A315E-CAA7-4642-BA12-E8F57F80275F-2562-00000196F076CF2F_zps7efd4945.jpg&hash=fa6e7e0dfc2ce5750d44d85b0b3b3bf8b403c862)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fw69%2Fdave_brown1970%2FF9C14986-5716-4D5D-8A47-2E93221E25EB-2562-000001971D46DFE1_zpsaeaa1dc1.jpg&hash=12e9e70931490060e1e1f7c2ef1e3121db3e18fe)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fw69%2Fdave_brown1970%2FBF983612-7B46-465D-9C85-953F38523934-2562-000001973CDF1685_zps4eb12959.jpg&hash=3148ccd6640c5aac271e5561dcc39ba54c064508)
The -11's come with painted bells and edges courtesy of Brembo, the wear indicator, theyre also a higher carbon content and surpass OEm quality levels (according to the side of the box)
The pillar vane design is a lot lighter than standard discss too
You can do a search on here for drilled v grooved and amuse yourself all afternoon if you wish but you dont see many race cars with plain discs do you?
If you're doing track days then generally drilled isnt the way to go, depending on what pads you're using grooved isnt the way to go either. Seen DS2500 flattened in 8000 miles on a commuting TT with the tarox cheesegraters fitted
These were £250.....£200 buys them plus posting if anybodys interested
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But having drilled, do they not aid in stopping power, plus to help keep things cooler?
No they don't. They are primarily to reduce weight. Grooved can increase intial bite and reduce gassing however gassing is not really a problem with modern pads.
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But having drilled, do they not aid in stopping power, plus to help keep things cooler?
No they don't. They are primarily to reduce weight. Grooved can increase intial bite and reduce gassing however gassing is not really a problem with modern pads.
Drilled to reduce weight?
You sure? like really sure....like worthwhile drilling them to save like 30 Grammes tops?
Drilled discs can work well with certain pad compounds and they provide a gas path and is the only way to get cool air to the pad face if you thhink about it. promised myself this wouldnt turn into a drilled v grooved thread.
Modern pads dont produce gas - you got any data for that?
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No data, just from reading around. With certain compounds, perhaps.. on the road? Really? And drilled certainly does not increase "stopping power" which is limited by the tyres anyway.
http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/p/153276/1014271.aspx
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Ok mate
Theres a lot of duff info on that thread its far from definitive, cars are getting generally faster and the need to have a compound that works in Alaska in minus 20 conditions as well as trying to stop a 350HP TT or Focus in Dubai means that the compound people need to work much harder to keep up and provide a compound that is regulated and approved.
They can introduce friction levels chemically or physically Pagid RS and most other ceramic pads can add frictionisers to effect the behaviour either when hot or when cold, alternatively sintered pads generate huge heat and can be gassy as indeed can ceramic pads.
The release of vapour on the disc face will take away a lot of heat and therefore for the same car on the same disc and pads driven in the same way the plain discs generally will fade sooner, by how much who knows.
Interesting point. All ceramic discs are drilled due to their higher operating temps as an example.
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Not disagreeing entirely - I have not read up on Ceramic discs much because, well there's no need to, we know what they do!
But as general rule, most cars (eg Mercs) that come with drilled discs are for looks over performance - They will crack more easily unfortunately. I'm sure the plain discs would fade sooner, again as you said, how much sooner is unknown - But I've never found fade with my R32 setup with OEM discs/pads even when stopping from 140 to 30. :innocent:
But rather than buy silly discs, the money would be better invested in quality high performance pads and a suitable fluid. I will be fitting grooved/slotted discs when I come to replace my discs, but only because it's not any more expensive and I can get the coating on the discs to stop the rust :happy2:
In race cars they tend to use slotted/grooved discs rather than drilled because they crack. True even for Carbon/ceramic brakes as in the picture below.
http://cdn.speedhunters.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/IMG_0039_DeSs_3.jpg
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Not disagreeing entirely - I have not read up on Ceramic discs much because, well there's no need to, we know what they do!
But as general rule, most cars (eg Mercs) that come with drilled discs are for looks over performance - They will crack more easily unfortunately. I'm sure the plain discs would fade sooner, again as you said, how much sooner is unknown - But I've never found fade with my R32 setup with OEM discs/pads even when stopping from 140 to 30. :innocent:
But rather than buy silly discs, the money would be better invested in quality high performance pads and a suitable fluid. I will be fitting grooved/slotted discs when I come to replace my discs, but only because it's not any more expensive and I can get the coating on the discs to stop the rust :happy2:
In race cars they tend to use slotted/grooved discs rather than drilled because they crack. True even for Carbon/ceramic brakes as in the picture below.
http://cdn.speedhunters.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/IMG_0039_DeSs_3.jpg
Can you send me a link to the discs you bought? Am probably going to try your ones was it from mtech?
My discs defo go through tons of abuse and I mean running 340 bhp and constantly braking from 150 to 70-110 and then flooring to redline and then braking again :grin:
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I had the ones for 280mm applications, so wouldn't really help bud.
Currently with the 345 I have OE discs and pads
For R32 you'd be looking here.
http://www.mtecbrakes.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4&products_id=6696
http://www.mtecbrakes.co.uk/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&zenid=&drop_1=VOLKSWAGEN&drop_2=Golf+Mk+V+Hatchback+%281K1%29&drop_3=3.2i+R32+4-Motion+3189cc+Year%3A+05-08&keyword=VOLKSWAGEN+Golf+Mk+V+Hatchback+%281K1%29+3.2i+R32+4-Motion+3189cc+Year%3A+05-08&submit=Search
Both the same part number but yeah.
I will probably be going for grooved with the BLACK coating.
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Not disagreeing entirely - I have not read up on Ceramic discs much because, well there's no need to, we know what they do!
But as general rule, most cars (eg Mercs) that come with drilled discs are for looks over performance - They will crack more easily unfortunately. I'm sure the plain discs would fade sooner, again as you said, how much sooner is unknown - But I've never found fade with my R32 setup with OEM discs/pads even when stopping from 140 to 30. :innocent:
But rather than buy silly discs, the money would be better invested in quality high performance pads and a suitable fluid. I will be fitting grooved/slotted discs when I come to replace my discs, but only because it's not any more expensive and I can get the coating on the discs to stop the rust :happy2:
In race cars they tend to use slotted/grooved discs rather than drilled because they crack. True even for Carbon/ceramic brakes as in the picture below.
http://cdn.speedhunters.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/IMG_0039_DeSs_3.jpg
Not always the case mate, got some rally cars using drilled discs, also for endurance races some teams can run drilled to get the cooiling but without the wear rate. Matt Close case in point. 500HP TTRS exclusively drilled now. Especially after the only grooved set ive ever sent him he trashed on the parade lap at the F1 grand prix at Melbourne this year.
I'm looking at just over a million quids worth of AP Racing Discs out of my window i would probably say 80% are grooved 20% "other", short hot races like BTCC (who we supply) yes grooved generally but it depends on race length and pad material.
Those carbon discs arent grooved, besides theyre carbon/carbon the pad is the same material as the disc. Theyre VERY different from ceramic
And unless the car is regularly tracking I always reccomend the OEM fluid, its very good and the OEM stuff is the same as installed on a R8 GT - exactly the same part number.
What "High Performance" pads do you reccomend?
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Dave: For moronic simpletons such as myself, can you suggest one pad and disc that would be the best upgrade for the standard gti brakes? Even if that means sticking with OEM - tell me please!
I need to buy a set and can't be bothered trawling through millions of arguments.
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Not always the case mate, got some rally cars using drilled discs, also for endurance races some teams can run drilled to get the cooiling but without the wear rate. Matt Close case in point. 500HP TTRS exclusively drilled now. Especially after the only grooved set ive ever sent him he trashed on the parade lap at the F1 grand prix at Melbourne this year.
It's obviously down to certain applications as to what people choose to use. But as a general rule of thumb they are either plain or grooved
I'm looking at just over a million quids worth of AP Racing Discs out of my window i would probably say 80% are grooved 20% "other", short hot races like BTCC (who we supply) yes grooved generally but it depends on race length and pad material.
Well wasn't that what I was saying? That drilled discs don't do anything particularly good and on a road car are just another thing to go wrong.
Even on APs own website (http://www.apracing.com/products/race_car/formula_student/sae/brake_discs.aspx) it says that weight is an advantage of drilled disks - and also validates my saying that most race cars run grooved, if anything - Not forgetting unsprung weight differences of 2-3kg can make a massive difference, as I'm sure you're aware the 345mm units are bloody heavy!)
And unless the car is regularly tracking I always reccomend the OEM fluid, its very good and the OEM stuff is the same as installed on a R8 GT - exactly the same part number.
ATE Superblue is very highly rated, I don't have this in my own car (will do at next change though) but have driven a car with it, and seemed pretty good to me. Why would you not use a (supposedly) better fluid? OEM Fluid boils at what, 220 degrees? You can buy fluids which hold a higher boiling point and often for not much more than OEM?
What "High Performance" pads do you reccomend?
Probably ones different to what you'd recommend.
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:signLOL:
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Running S3 brakes front and rear.
MTEC Black Coated, Dimpled and grooved, F&R
Mintex M1144 Front Pads, Pagid OEM Rear.
Dave supplied braided lines and VAG Fluid.
Noisy... Yes
Fade... Not Yet. Even with sustained high speed braking.
What would I do again if I had the choice... Probably go plain and look for a set of pads that don't squeak. Think chamfered edges on the pads would help.
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Dave: For moronic simpletons such as myself, can you suggest one pad and disc that would be the best upgrade for the standard gti brakes? Even if that means sticking with OEM - tell me please!
I need to buy a set and can't be bothered trawling through millions of arguments.
:signLOL: :congrats: :signLOL:
+1 her for me as well please!!
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OE or good German made equivalents are perfectly fine. You don't need grooved, but they're nice. I don't like drilled, as they can/will crack.
Pads. Any of these with decent fluid will haul your car back properly and consistently without being too compromised day to day. Check to see if all mentioned are available. Cheaper ones may not have decent shims and will require a solution to avoid noise.
Pagid RS4-2/29
Carbon Lorraine RC6e
Mintex 1144/1155
Carbotech XP6/8
I'd buy RS4-2s.
I wouldnt touch EBC or DS2500s. Also be aware the likes of Euro are selling Chinese made parts under licence branded as Pagid, these are absolute sh*te, ensure what you buy is made in Europe.
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Wanna rty those Lorraines