MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: berg on April 28, 2013, 03:45:48 pm
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I know Danish and Steve have the LO4xx on their cars but is anyone running the now re-badged L0400?
Curious to hear anyones experiences of the hybrid ko4- power, spool, etc.
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I know Danish and Steve have the LO4xx on their cars but is anyone running the now re-badged L0400?
Curious to hear anyones experiences of the hybrid ko4- power, spool, etc.
:popcornsoda:
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:popcornsoda: :wink:
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Will this LO400 make 400ps without WMI and on normal 99 ron fuel?
According to Statllers Steve his LO4xx Ed30 makes 400ps @ 1.7Bar on road fuel without WMI and 428 on pump fuel with WMI @ 1.7Bar.
If the Lo4xx is only making 400Hp on 99ron surely the LO400 will make less, especially when you consider it will run less boost.
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I.E. it should still be called the LO380? :innocent:
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Heard a rumour jbs have managed 410 from it. Not sure what fuel though. Apparently there big on loba stuff now. :popcornsoda:
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Will this LO400 make 400ps without WMI and on normal 99 ron fuel?
According to Statllers Steve his LO4xx Ed30 makes 400ps @ 1.7Bar on road fuel without WMI and 428 on pump fuel with WMI @ 1.7Bar.
If the Lo4xx is only making 400Hp on 99ron surely the LO400 will make less, especially when you consider it will run less boost.
hopefully, steve will be along to comment.
didn't the lo4xx run 475bhp on race fuel though or have i got that mixed up?
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is there revo software for it yet
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Custom-Code Phase 3
LOBA Motorsport GmbH LO400
Milltek Sport TBE
Uprated Clutch
HPFP
Stock Internals
Stock Manual Transmission
Tesco 99
410+ BHP and 560+ NM
Taken from there facebook page
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hopefully, steve will be along to comment.
didn't the lo4xx run 475bhp on race fuel though or have i got that mixed up?
He already has commented. 475hp with 50:50 WMI and 104 Octane race fuel and 400hp on pump fuel with no WMI)
Yes the run (LO4xx 475Hp) was on 104 octane with 50% WMI on direct port running a 3 year old Giac map
Think if most people are honest you'll find lots of them running fuel sweeteners at dyno days, with a specific dyno map in some cases
Everybody who needs to know knows the figures this motor runs without the WMI pumping, Just to re-cap this (LO4xx) runs 400hp on my dyno with no meth on a pump file at 1.7 bar (428 hp still in pump with single point WMI)
is there revo software for it yet
I was under the impression that REVO wouldnt be offering software for it, although Danish s using stage 3 or 4 software on his LO4xx so it can be made to work.
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:popcornsoda:
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hopefully, steve will be along to comment.
didn't the lo4xx run 475bhp on race fuel though or have i got that mixed up?
He already has commented. 475hp with 50:50 WMI and 104 Octane race fuel and 400hp on pump fuel with no WMI)
Yes the run (LO4xx 475Hp) was on 104 octane with 50% WMI on direct port running a 3 year old Giac map
Think if most people are honest you'll find lots of them running fuel sweeteners at dyno days, with a specific dyno map in some cases
Everybody who needs to know knows the figures this motor runs without the WMI pumping, Just to re-cap this (LO4xx) runs 400hp on my dyno with no meth on a pump file at 1.7 bar (428 hp still in pump with single point WMI)
is there revo software for it yet
I was under the impression that REVO wouldnt be offering software for it, although Danish s using stage 3 or 4 software on his LO4xx so it can be made to work.
no, i meant comment on any power runs from the Lo400. although, have to say dont have high hopes if only getting 400bhp from the LO4xx on pump fuel :sad1:
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Thats what i was getting at in post#3.
If the LO4xx is getting 400Hp at 1.7Bar on road fuel (which id assume is the maximum safe limit for boost on pump fuel with no WMI otherwise they would surely run it harder), then the LO400, which is a smaller turbo, thus more susceptible to high EGTs and wont be able to match the same boost characteristics as the LO4xx will surely make less than 400hp on road fuel.
Of course, throwing on Direct port WMI and race fuel will no doubt add another 30-40hp+ its not the turbo thats achieving it, its other mods. I've seen a fair few graphs on GIACs and Lobas FB page, but the majority of these LO400 power curves seem to run WMI.
Id like to see what R-Tec can do with these though :party:
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Thats what i was getting at in post#3.
If the LO4xx is getting 400Hp at 1.7Bar on road fuel (which id assume is the maximum safe limit for boost on pump fuel with no WMI otherwise they would surely run it harder), then the LO400, which is a smaller turbo, thus more susceptible to high EGTs and wont be able to match the same boost characteristics as the LO4xx will surely make less than 400hp on road fuel.
Of course, throwing on Direct port WMI and race fuel will no doubt add another 30-40hp+ its not the turbo thats achieving it, its other mods. I've seen a fair few graphs on GIACs and Lobas FB page, but the majority of these LO400 power curves seem to run WMI.
Id like to see what R-Tech can do with these though :party:
Me too :notworthy:
Seriously though, how much power & torque do you want through the front wheels :confused:
James took me out in his K04, WMI R-Tech mapped CDL lump and it could spin the wheels in 4th gear in the dry - it was ONLY making 378bhp & 450lb ft then (I believe it has 404bhp potential - still on the K04). And is only drivable thanks too the 1-1 linear throttle map. He's now looking at a 4wd conversion to get the most out of it.
400+bhp is wasted on a FWD - especially for road use, even with LSD IMHO
You can get 400bhp with a stg2+ car with the addition of WMI and an uprated LPFP on pump fuel which seems a damn sight cheaper than the LOBA with a great curve as well.
Sorry guys, I just can't see the benefits of this turbo :stupid:
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yes would like to see what r-tech and statllers can do with them but certainly looks like may not be worth the outlay if only going to give 20 bhp over 2+ and no more or possibly less than 2+ with wmi
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The LO400 (AKA the LO380) makes sense for guys upgrading from the K03, but if your already K04, i dont think its worth the considerable outlay.
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The LO400 (AKA the LO380) makes sense for guys upgrading from the K03, but if your already K04, i dont think its worth the considerable outlay.
succinct summing up there, and unless we see some decent graphs to show otherwise looks like might be the case
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Statllers had an L0380 powered S3 in the other week. It went on the dyno and made...............less than my set up! I can't remember the tuner, but it wasn't GIAC, Revo or APR. it was running wmi too.
However, here is one with a better tune running without wmi.......
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This has just been posted on FB:
H.A.T S3 LO4XX 428PS 507NM Std pump fuel (no WMI Used)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2F217575_538132156227926_1296045704_n_zps71fe6fe2.jpg&hash=0a27a3fc554927d8d0492754ff9bfb8cce7504d1) (http://s715.photobucket.com/user/jakethemoss/media/217575_538132156227926_1296045704_n_zps71fe6fe2.jpg.html)
So there's more to the Lo4xx than "just" 400bhp, also when looking at the Lo400 remember to look at the overall graph and not just the figures. A stock K04 might make over 500Nm but only for at few rpm's as it overboosts, i will assume that the Lo400 will be able to hold that torque for longer making it more usable.
Just IMO :smiley:
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A stage 1 K04 makes about 200bhp at 3k... How much is that ^^^ making? :surprised:
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This has just been posted on FB:
H.A.T S3 LO4XX 428PS 507NM Std pump fuel (no WMI Used)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2F217575_538132156227926_1296045704_n_zps71fe6fe2.jpg&hash=0a27a3fc554927d8d0492754ff9bfb8cce7504d1) (http://s715.photobucket.com/user/jakethemoss/media/217575_538132156227926_1296045704_n_zps71fe6fe2.jpg.html)
So there's more to the Lo4xx than "just" 400bhp, also when looking at the Lo400 remember to look at the overall graph and not just the figures. A stock K04 might make over 500Nm but only for at few rpm's as it overboosts, i will assume that the Lo400 will be able to hold that torque for longer making it more usable.
Just IMO :smiley:
good point Jake, need to look past peak figures and look at the curves, hopefully there will be some more graphs (without wmi) knocking about
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So How should the perfect graph look :smiley:
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So How should the perfect graph look :smiley:
IMO up to the max. torque early and then stay flat all the way to redline, along with a nice gradually growing line for bhp also peaking at redline :happy2:
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So How should the perfect graph look :smiley:
IMO up to the max. torque early and then stay flat all the way to redline, along with a nice gradually growing line for bhp also peaking at redline :happy2:
With the torque kicking in early, do you not think it would be harder to drive. i.e. get of the line even with lsd?
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So How should the perfect graph look :smiley:
IMO up to the max. torque early and then stay flat all the way to redline, along with a nice gradually growing line for bhp also peaking at redline :happy2:
With the torque kicking in early, do you not think it would be harder to drive. i.e. get of the line even with lsd?
That's just my perfect graph, of course it will demand more of the cars setup and the driver.
Looking at the Lo4xx graph knowing mine is very similar i must admit that i really like the way the torque comes eventhough it comes later in the rev range, but it also stays there until redline unlike the std. K04.
But we need some Lo400 graphs to stick to topic, sorry for the diversion Berg :sad1:
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I'm truly torn between these turbos and the K04. The K04 spools well, yet the L0400 is supposed to spool slightly faster and give a better top end and then the L04XX has even more top end, but loses a little low down urge.i almost pulled the trigger on the L0400 a few months ago and several texts and messages went to and for between myself and Simon and then the R had a few running issues which made me hang back.. The L0400 I feel should give a good balance and it has made over 400bhp without WMI. It is the set-up that needs to be right to support them first.
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Here are a graph on a LO400, just posted today on FB:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=538540362853772&set=a.159939344047211.26960.156342304406915&type=1&theater
LOBA LO400 turbocharger
Milltek Downpipe
Forge Motorsport intercooler
autotech HPFP
Stock Injectors, Stock Exhaust, stock low pressure pump
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2F942719_538540362853772_1189130636_n_zps334dc9a8.jpg&hash=e574f1e23298b502a548a9d91715c34db4c8c34e) (http://s715.photobucket.com/user/jakethemoss/media/942719_538540362853772_1189130636_n_zps334dc9a8.jpg.html)
As i read it then it better at holding boost at the higher revs compared to the stock graph, no doubt it would benefit from an aftermarket exhaust system.
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I'm truly torn between these turbos and the K04. The K04 spools well, yet the L0400 is supposed to spool slightly faster and give a better top end and then the L04XX has even more top end, but loses a little low down urge.i almost pulled the trigger on the L0400 a few months ago and several texts and messages went to and for between myself and Simon and then the R had a few running issues which made me hang back.. The L0400 I feel should give a good balance and it has made over 400bhp without WMI. It is the set-up that needs to be right to support them first.
hi john,
have you plumped for the lo400 now then? what is the fitted price so you know? cant be done for under £2k can it - but presumably not much over?
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You will struggle to get everything for under £2k. I reckon this will be more like a £3k inc vat and fitting.
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if I was at home, I would buy one of these and give it a blast! would be interested to see what nick could do!
just need to book my flight home lol.
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You will struggle to get everything for under £2k. I reckon this will be more like a £3k inc vat and fitting.
Is that on top of a Stage 2 setup or stock?
Ideally ... LO400 setup + Stage 3 DSG Map for me
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You will struggle to get everything for under £2k. I reckon this will be more like a £3k inc vat and fitting.
Is that on top of a Stage 2 setup or stock?
Ideally ... LO400 setup + Stage 3 DSG Map for me
If you want a new L0400 it is €1,975, if you can get hold of a used K04 and send it off for conversion then that drops to €1,295 ( plus more shipping costs ). The GIAC map would be circa £500 unless you are already a GIAC customer and there would most likely be quite a bit off that. Then if you decide on GIAC you will require RS4 injectors as this is what their map requires. These are around £400. Then fitting on top.
So, the cheapest route would be for an existing GIAC customer using a refurbed K04 for just over £2k all in for the map, injectors, refurb turbo and fitting.
The most expensive route would be a new customer for around £3k.
An RS3 in tank pump or equivalent would be a good idea too and that would be another £400 ish.
:happy2:
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Wow, didn't realise the injectors and in tank pump were so much
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Is that on top of a Stage 2 setup or stock?
From stock you'd require......
Full turbo-back exhaust
Intercooler ( required at this level of tune )
Uprated in-tank pump ( recommended but not essential)
Uprated HPFP
Uprated intake with larger MAF housing ( if going GIAC )
Lower dogbone mount insert ( as a minimum )
Cooler sparkplugs
L0400 Turbo
Rs4 injectors (if going GIAC )
Appropriate remap.
Also I'd probably look at the E-Boost 2 upgrade, but that ain't cheap, but worth it. :happy2:
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Is that on top of a Stage 2 setup or stock?
From stock you'd require......
Full turbo-back exhaust
Intercooler ( required at this level of tune )
Uprated in-tank pump ( recommended but not essential)
Uprated HPFP
Uprated intake with larger MAF housing ( if going GIAC )
Lower dogbone mount insert ( as a minimum )
Cooler sparkplugs
L0400 Turbo
Rs4 injectors (if going GIAC )
Appropriate remap.
Also I'd probably look at the E-Boost 2 upgrade, but that ain't cheap, but worth it. :happy2:
I'm glad you like the Eboost so far Hurdy :happy2:
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Is that on top of a Stage 2 setup or stock?
From stock you'd require......
Full turbo-back exhaust
Intercooler ( required at this level of tune )
Uprated in-tank pump ( recommended but not essential)
Uprated HPFP
Uprated intake with larger MAF housing ( if going GIAC )
Lower dogbone mount insert ( as a minimum )
Cooler sparkplugs
L0400 Turbo
Rs4 injectors (if going GIAC )
Appropriate remap.
Also I'd probably look at the E-Boost 2 upgrade, but that ain't cheap, but worth it. :happy2:
I'm glad you like the Eboost so far Hurdy :happy2:
Yeah,
It is much better than I thought it would be. So, so clever little piece of kit.I'd have bought it just for the "Knightrider" boost lights alone. :laugh:
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I see Loba have a summer sale on and have knocked off 200 euro off the price of the LO400.
Roll up, Roll up.... :signLOL:
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How come you have not got one of these yet ???? :party: Now would be a good time! :driver:
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Nortech kits where it's at :laugh:
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Nortech kits where it's at :laugh:
Yeah. It's also 5000 minimum.
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Nortech kits where it's at :laugh:
Yeah. It's also 5000 minimum.
:scared:
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How much of a difference will this make over the KO4 turbo, will it sound different, spool different, pull harder, longer ? :party:
Would it show much over a well sorted KO4 set-up?
:popcornsoda:
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Well storted ko4 will do 370-380 with WMI.
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It spools the same as a K04. Loba claimed slightly better, but I didn't feel much difference on the butt dyno.
Mid range to top end it was better. On my set-up it was around 28bhp peak gain. Torque is slightly stronger and holds on longer at the mid to top end too.
To make the most from it you need a suitable map. A boost controller is also an option, but not a necessity. :)
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It spools the same as a K04. Loba claimed slightly better, but I didn't feel much difference on the butt dyno.
Mid range to top end it was better. On my set-up it was around 28bhp peak gain. Torque is slightly stronger and holds on longer at the mid to top end too.
To make the most from it you need a suitable map. A boost controller is also an option, but not a necessity. :)
John, as i think you are the only person to try this would you recommend giving it a go or as Sy said earlier in this thread is it only really worth it for people coming up from the KO3 by bypassing KO4 conversion and go straight for this? It seems to me that if you are expecting 400PS from it you may well be disappointed going off Statller's figures for the 4XX
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It spools the same as a K04. Loba claimed slightly better, but I didn't feel much difference on the butt dyno.
Mid range to top end it was better. On my set-up it was around 28bhp peak gain. Torque is slightly stronger and holds on longer at the mid to top end too.
To make the most from it you need a suitable map. A boost controller is also an option, but not a necessity. :)
John, as i think you are the only person to try this would you recommend giving it a go or as Sy said earlier in this thread is it only really worth it for people coming up from the KO3 by bypassing KO4 conversion and go straight for this? It seems to me that if you are expecting 400PS from it you may well be disappointed going off Statller's figures for the 4XX
Alternatively look at TTE 420, we (bnautoteknik.dk) will fit one on a cupra late august, i'll post the rr result when i have it should it have interest?
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We need a better manifold + hybrid combination. The oem manifold is fairly restrictive isn't it?
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It spools the same as a K04. Loba claimed slightly better, but I didn't feel much difference on the butt dyno.
Mid range to top end it was better. On my set-up it was around 28bhp peak gain. Torque is slightly stronger and holds on longer at the mid to top end too.
To make the most from it you need a suitable map. A boost controller is also an option, but not a necessity. :)
John, as i think you are the only person to try this would you recommend giving it a go or as Sy said earlier in this thread is it only really worth it for people coming up from the KO3 by bypassing KO4 conversion and go straight for this? It seems to me that if you are expecting 400PS from it you may well be disappointed going off Statller's figures for the 4XX
Alternatively look at TTE 420, we (bnautoteknik.dk) will fit one on a cupra late august, i'll post the rr result when i have it should it have interest?
yes please
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We need a better manifold + hybrid combination. The oem manifold is fairly restrictive isn't it?
Yes,when Aks showed me the ko4,it is very restrictive