MK5 Golf GTI
General => Random Chat => Topic started by: chungster on June 12, 2013, 12:46:40 pm
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New 2.0 TFSI motor with 300ps / 280 lb ft of torque
3 door from £30,640 OTR
5 door from £31,260 OTR
Competitive!
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Want!!! :drool:
Can't have!! :sad1:
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How much is the saloon variant?
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Be very interesting to see whether these map at all well on Stage 1... as on the face of it, it's already a Stage 1 K04 2.0 TFSI.
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Completely different cylinder head turbo combo.
No longer turbo and manifold in one setup.
Turbo had t3 style flanges on the manifold.
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Completely different cylinder head turbo combo.
No longer turbo and manifold in one setup.
Turbo had t3 style flanges on the manifold.
Good to hear - So perhaps standard RS3 power is on the cards with an ECU flash.
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Yep could flash straight to 340-350hp, but I still think the rs3 engine will have the legs at higher speeds.
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S3 is up on the Audi configurator. I just specced mine to £38,175. :sad1:
I didnt even add magnetic ride or some of the other options.
£36,200 without B&O and S-Tronic.
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Bare bones and I still got to £35k.
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Bare bones and I still got to £35k.
= M135i still a better buy
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Over £2k for Sprint Blue :surprised:
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and who was saying the AMG was expensive!!
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To be fair I did spec one with Nav, S-Tronic, parking camera, bose and a few other bits for under £35k, so it's not THAT bad. I bet the Merc will be Mission Impossible to spec with any must have options for under £40k. I dare say those lush seats will be gulp worthy on their own..
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Merc is £38k+ base spec, £1500 aero, £531 AMG exhaust, so thats already £40k without even looking at tasty options.
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Got mine to £35,325 for a car i would be happy with. Went for a manual rather than S-Tronic and base paint rather than any "fancy" paint. Still a long way off the initial £29,820 it started at though and not sure i would actualy go and pay that much for an S3, can get much more for your money i feel.
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Not much in the price of an S3 specced up and the M135i i would want.
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As already mentioned (on every forum probably LOL)
BMW M135i fully loaded and discounted to £30,500 with 5 year service pack makes it seem very expensive! Especially when it consistently beats the RS3 in tests yet alone S3.....
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Anyone been given any prices on the Audi pcp deals yet on the S3 for the std car with no extras
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As already mentioned (on every forum probably LOL)
BMW M135i fully loaded and discounted to £30,500 with 5 year service pack makes it seem very expensive! Especially when it consistently beats the RS3 in tests yet alone S3.....
Are those prices still achieveable?
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As already mentioned (on every forum probably LOL)
BMW M135i fully loaded and discounted to £30,500 with 5 year service pack makes it seem very expensive! Especially when it consistently beats the RS3 in tests yet alone S3.....
Rs3 is old chassis, s3 is new like the 1 series. Not exactly a fair comparison. And it only beats the rs3 on "steering feel, and driver enjoyment" it's still a slower than the rs3.
If steering feel and driver enjoyment is what you want from your car, and practicality isn't an issue buy a cayman.
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As already mentioned (on every forum probably LOL)
BMW M135i fully loaded and discounted to £30,500 with 5 year service pack makes it seem very expensive! Especially when it consistently beats the RS3 in tests yet alone S3.....
Are those prices still achieveable?
Yes I was going to place an order last month and was getting 10% off list and 5 year service pack :)
Decided to save £10k in the end though and went for the facelift 335i coupe instead
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As already mentioned (on every forum probably LOL)
BMW M135i fully loaded and discounted to £30,500 with 5 year service pack makes it seem very expensive! Especially when it consistently beats the RS3 in tests yet alone S3.....
Rs3 is old chassis, s3 is new like the 1 series. Not exactly a fair comparison. And it only beats the rs3 on "steering feel, and driver enjoyment" it's still a slower than the rs3.
If steering feel and driver enjoyment is what you want from your car, and practicality isn't an issue buy a cayman.
Having driven both I would say the 1 series is darn near as fast as the RS3 once moving and lets not forget its RWD ;) Cayman would be my choice though for sure if practicality wasnt an issue :happy2:
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It only beats it on steering feel and driver enjoyment? I'd say that's 2 very important aspects to be better on, we're hardly talking radio reception and brightness of indicators!!
The M135i has pretty much won every 'best' award this year. The S3 hasn't exactly been well received, the MK7 seems to be the better buy from the VAG camp...
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I would just say that they are all awesome cars. Take value for money out the equation and the fact that most will only get driven at 8/10th's and its horses for courses really.
Be boring world if we all liked the same :laugh:
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It only beats it on steering feel and driver enjoyment? I'd say that's 2 very important aspects to be better on, we're hardly talking radio reception and brightness of indicators!!
The M135i has pretty much won every 'best' award this year. The S3 hasn't exactly been well received, the MK7 seems to be the better buy from the VAG camp...
It's important depending on who you are and what you want from your car! Haven't seen many car reviews of the s3 but tbh do we really need to read them to know what the magazines will write? It's always gonna be the same, a BMW has to drive like a BMW and a Audi has to drive like a Audi.
Both are high sellers, both have different reciepe for success.
This brings to mind my friend who traded in his TTRS for a new M5, his wife lost the back end on it and now refuses to drive it so he's got her another Audi to drive the kids around in. It works for some it doesn't for other.
I wouldn't blanket one as being better than the other, they are just different
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I agree with TD. The three most important apects of an sports car or hot hatch are performance, steering feel and driver enjoyment.
The M135i trumps the RS3 on 2 of these and does this for over 10k less!! Look how unhappy CH was in that review, he said he didnt care if the BMW was slower than the RS3 because irrelevant of its time, it was an unpleasent chassis and whilst it might have been quikcer than the M135i on a lap, it was still slower on the drag race, despite having to the advantage of the laucnh control and traction, so give it a rolling start, i reckon it would be beaten by a larger margin. Its going to be embarrassed bigstyle when the 1M is released.
On the subject of the new S3, i highly doubt it will be in the same league as the RS3 performance wise, and no doubt handling as well, so the difference between the M135i I expect will be huge. Especially considering the S3/M135i are direct competitors.
Previously VAG had the trump card on tunability over the BMW range, now i dont think they have that anymore. :grin: Some people get hung up on VAG being superior to everything else on the market. There is life outside of VAG :innocent:
Look at how much money we all throw at VAGs to make them handle well, with the BMW, you dont need to waste that money.
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This brings to mind my friend who traded in his TTRS for a new M5, his wife lost the back end on it and now refuses to drive it so he's got her another Audi to drive the kids around in. It works for some it doesn't for other.
So are you sayingthat if your a girl drive a TTRS, if your a man drive a BMW?
Ill get my coat :innocent: :evilgrin:
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This brings to mind my friend who traded in his TTRS for a new M5, his wife lost the back end on it and now refuses to drive it so he's got her another Audi to drive the kids around in. It works for some it doesn't for other.
So are you sayingthat if your a girl drive a TTRS, if your a man drive a BMW?
Ill get my coat :innocent: :evilgrin:
TBH I feel like more of a girl in my BMW coupe than I have in any previous car :grin: Not really sure I am a BMW person but I can appreciate the engineering and performance and look past the image (I think...... :signLOL:)
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To be fair to the rs3 Chris Harris was driving it like a cock, and the 1 series was on much superior rubber, near enough a semi slick and it was still slower. In the real world I reckon the rs3 would demolish especially with British weather.
I agree what you say about hot hatches etc and I can't understand why some people just buy VAG's all their life. Boring!!!
Porsche for next I think, they just feel so alive when you drive them, in comparison to a vag, it's like you are going from black and white TV to 3d HD, it's just another world
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A bit off topic but does can anybody confirm if the enigne in the new S3 is the same as the new golf MK7 GTI? And if so does this mean there is good tuning potential for the mk7?
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S3 engine manifold integrated into the cylinder head so it might not tune aswell or atleast not at higher power levels with a bigger turbo.
Not sure if the engine will be the same
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This 'real world'' it would demolish it in, what is this?
You've got an S3 class car costing £10k less beating an RS3. It's 2 seconds faster around the Ring than the RS3 and .3 slower around Hockenheim. That's not tyres, it's the Haldex getting out of 2nd gear bends fractionally quicker.
The previous 1M was 5 seconds and 1.3 seconds faster than the RS3 respectively.
If being faster in the rain, or launching off inner city roundabouts is important to you, then yes, it'll be faster.
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This 'real world'' it would demolish it in, what is this?
You've got an S3 class car costing £10k less beating an RS3. It's 2 seconds faster around the Ring than the RS3 and .3 slower around Hockenheim.
The previous 1M was 5 seconds and 1.3 seconds faster than the RS3 respectively.
If being faster in the rain, or launching off inner city roundabouts is important to you, then yes, it'll be faster.
Come off it tony.
You don't buy a s3, rs3 or BMW 1 series for the racetrack do you. They are road cars. We both know that those 3 cars would cost a fortune to track every other week, never mind them not even being up for the task. If you are serious about going around the nurburgring, hockeheim etc you will buy a proper track dedicated toy. You can get something seriously competent from anything between 2k-10k.
And therefore I don't see the logic behind lap times.
Also why compare the 1m to the rs3? Ones a coupe, the other is essentially a estate. Compare it with the TTRS not the rs3.
But back in the real world, where these cars spend the majority of the time the rs3 is a quicker point to point car than the new s3 and the new 1 series in the majority of situations.
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The real world has traffic, speed limits, obstacles, pedestrians....
The lap times show what each car is capable of in a controlled environment, like for like. It's the only way to compare, even if it's not comparable with day to day life.
You do 1/4 miles at the Pod.
You do 30-130's at Brunters.
What's the difference?
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Come off it tony.
Who is Tony? :signLOL:
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The real world has traffic, speed limits, obstacles, pedestrians....
The lap times show what each car is capable of in a controlled environment, like for like. It's the only way to compare, even if it's not comparable with day to day life.
You do 1/4 miles at the Pod.
You do 30-130's at Brunters.
What's the difference?
30-130 is achievable in the real world, same as the 1/4 mile sprint, track times still have wayyyyyyyy too many variables, never mind the fact that the average driver will most likely be quicker in a powerful 4wd car than a powerful rwd.
We have all seen the rear end of a powerful BMW or merc squirm or fishtail under power at which point the driver loses his balls and backs off, this is mostly a non issue for 4wd cars.
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Will definitely be getting a test drive in the new S3 to see what Audi can offer.
In the mean time whilst my car is on for some minor work, I'm conducting some major hoonage in this.. :driver:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fw6%2FCUPRA270%2F29774753-c3cd-4ff3-b8b1-f5216b43b5c2.jpg&hash=7b013427e082fbf4425a902d7e3c5e0f4a7f6ca6)
By god it's good fun - even on the optional wankflats that it unfortunately cam with..
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The real world has traffic, speed limits, obstacles, pedestrians....
The lap times show what each car is capable of in a controlled environment, like for like. It's the only way to compare, even if it's not comparable with day to day life.
You do 1/4 miles at the Pod.
You do 30-130's at Brunters.
What's the difference?
30-130 is achievable in the real world, same as the 1/4 mile sprint, track times still have wayyyyyyyy too many variables, never mind the fact that the average driver will most likely be quicker in a powerful 4wd car than a powerful rwd.
We have all seen the rear end of a powerful BMW or merc squirm or fishtail under power at which point the driver loses his balls and backs off, this is mostly a non issue for 4wd cars.
But it isn't legal, so you go to a controlled environment. Or, at least you should.
I do agree most people lack the knowledge or balls to drive RWD fast, but 4WD isn't without its problems or limitations, you make it sound like it's the answer to everything. Certainly in Haldex format, it is not.
Track times don't have variables when it's the same person driving the car. I have no doubt in my mind that HVS or Rohrl are capable of putting a car around a track in fast and consistent times.
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What I'm saying is that track times when done by none pro's.
Just look at the Porsche vs GtR debates.
Unless rohrl is driving most people can't beat GTR's in their Porsches. The GTR is just more accessible for ordinary folks
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I'm not a advocate of 4wd for track driving in any shape or form btw, I don't even like turbos on a track car, but for the road, give me 4wd and turbos.
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Pointless, the bm is faster on a track and on the road you would never notice. The s3 looks like a really nice car to me but if your buying a performance car you buy the one with the best chassis IMO and track it of course, even if its just 3 times a year.
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And it only beats the rs3 on "steering feel, and driver enjoyment" it's still a slower than the rs3.
I would say the bold part is rather important, wouldn't you? I think you missed out price, as well...
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Pointless, the bm is faster on a track and on the road you would never notice. The s3 looks like a really nice car to me but if your buying a performance car you buy the one with the best chassis IMO and track it of course, even if its just 3 times a year.
Rubbish,
When me and my mates go for a run the tuned evos,my TTRS and the GTR, always have to eventually slow down and wait for the rwd cars to catch back up. Even the 650hp G-power m3, it just can't utilise it's power even in a straight line until silly speeds.
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And it only beats the rs3 on "steering feel, and driver enjoyment" it's still a slower than the rs3.
I would say the bold part is rather important, wouldn't you? I think you missed out price, as well...
Price between the s3 and 1 series is the same.
Price between the rs3 and the amg a45 is the same...
Yes it's important, but how important depends on the driver. If it ranks really highly for you why are you driving a VAG?
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I'm not a advocate of 4wd for track driving in any shape or form btw, I don't even like turbos on a track car, but for the road, give me 4wd and turbos.
Pretty much nails it.
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Pointless, the bm is faster on a track and on the road you would never notice. The s3 looks like a really nice car to me but if your buying a performance car you buy the one with the best chassis IMO and track it of course, even if its just 3 times a year.
Rubbish,
When me and my mates go for a run the tuned evos,my TTRS and the GTR, always have to eventually slow down and wait for the rwd cars to catch back up. Even the 650hp G-power m3, it just can't utilise it's power even in a straight line until silly speeds.
Have you heard yourself? If your going so fast that a 650bhp m3 can't keep up on the road your going too fast, have you ever been on a track? Does that not get rid of the need to drive like that on the road!
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Have you ever been to one of the piston heads early morning Sunday meets? If not have a look on their forum and that will answer your question.
Plus it has nothing to do with it being 650hp and not being able to keep up more as such that its got 650hp and it doesn't have the traction to keep up.
It's not as if we are doing 130, as at that point traction isn't all that much of an issue for an m3 me-thinks so no need to play the going too fast for the road thing.
As for track days they bore me unless you have the right kind of car. I prefer to do go kart events with proper wheel to wheel racing.
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So no then, u can't drive a Clio anywhere near its limits on the road so how you can any of the cars u mention is beyond me, as for pistonheads hoons no I never have.
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The pro-driver track times and the opinions of people like Monkey are important, despite whatever you think of them compared to the real world.
Joe Public buys cars on the strength of these reviews, because you can't trust a manufacturer to tell the truth. These are the only way of knowing what a car is really capable of, and whilst your average Joe might not be able to get the same results, it matters.
Of course if you're looking for a shopping kart, then the tests are pointless. It's all about context.
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I agree you can't drive these cars near their limits on the roads which is why lap time figures for a car are largely pointless and meaningless, especially if they are roughly the same.
My whole point is that on the road though in the real world 4wd is always quicker than rwd/fwd in 90% of British conditions.
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My whole point is that on the road though in the real world 4wd is always quicker than rwd/fwd in 90% of British conditions.
As we are stiring the hornets nest, I would say the above although true also means driving boredom.... Audi could make their 4wd cars more exciting (and has on some models) however they keep making the junior Audi's far too safe. If you want a good looking car to do the school run in then you should buy an A3 2L S-Line be it diesel or petrol. If you want a performance car then you should be able to buy an S3/RS3 with some true driver involvement
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Well audi's argument is that even the hot models still need to drive like a Audi, and stay true to the marquee. Personally the TTRS bores the utter day lights out of me on track for example, but on the right roads it makes me smile, and it still does the day to day well. I don't think it's ever going change, unless perhaps they expand the R-range, but then again Audi have bought Porsche now. Want a track oriented VAG, buy Porsche is the simple answer.
And to stir further, in every class of the Tuner GP of which a VAG and a BMW was in the same class the VAG beat it...
Anyhow, I fancy a Dax rush and a Porsche next, then my life is complete.
Ok maybe a big v8 amg too.
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I can say with some confidence that on a UK road, given an S3 and a MK7 mapped to give equivalent power:weight/torque - I'd be faster point to point in the GTI in anything other than rain or snow.
Who get's up and says 'oh great, it's pissing it down, let's go for a thrash!'.....
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I don't think you would, I used to think that aswell, but I know for a fact, unless speeds are kept up above 50mph throughout the "run" you wouldn't stand a chance.
I learned that in my 360hp Cupra vs my mates 400hp Evo. In a straight line, there was nothing in it, throw in some roundabouts on the dual carriage way we were on at the time and I was left for dead like seriously left behind.
Infact I can back this up further with a example of track driving.
Millteks 400hp time attack golf mk6 vs the 420hp mk6 golf R of rothe Motorsport. Both had pro drivers, both on direzzas, but the golf R was 0.6 of a sec quicker around hockeheim even though it was 220kg heavier.
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That's a lot of apples and oranges there. EVO has very sophisticated 4WD, Haldex isn't.
Race cars? Whole different kettle of fish.
I tried to pick 2 cars with essentially the same DNA, I maintain me in an S3 and similar power GTI as above, GTI quicker.
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Blimey lot of bickering going on here. I may be to help or (stir) things up a little. It all depends on the car setup aswell as weight not just this 4wdnonsense on track. As proved with the spectators being milltek and kpm racing on track at castle combe. I was up against a fully loaded 650bhp gtr with go pro footage and just kept reeling it in lap after lap with no issues, mainly down to the traction and weight of my car. Its all about this imho not just about what power you have and how many wheels are being driven. Thats my (facts) and its as simple as that no arguments or whos bigger than who just proven recorded stats. :happy2:
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What has all this got to do with the New S3 pricing? :laugh:
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I've quickly re-read the whole thread and the answer is...
Badger.
HTH :laugh:
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I'll do the lot of ya in my ed35, I has supper chips... :laugh:
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What has all this got to do with the New S3 pricing? :laugh:
I don't know :confused:
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I don't think you would, I used to think that aswell, but I know for a fact, unless speeds are kept up above 50mph throughout the "run" you wouldn't stand a chance.
I learned that in my 360hp Cupra vs my mates 400hp Evo. In a straight line, there was nothing in it, throw in some roundabouts on the dual carriage way we were on at the time and I was left for dead like seriously left behind.
Infact I can back this up further with a example of track driving.
Millteks 400hp time attack golf mk6 vs the 420hp mk6 golf R of rothe Motorsport. Both had pro drivers, both on direzzas, but the golf R was 0.6 of a sec quicker around hockeheim even though it was 220kg heavier.
I am not getting involved in this discussion because i have not driven a S3 or a RS3, but your track/ race car example doesnt stand up. about 2 months ago some one posted up a fully race prepped TTRS for a Nurburgring event and the 4 wheel drive system had been removed. Obviously we can conclude from this the benefit of the 4wheel drive system was not great enough to beat a lap time of the same car without the weight of the system, no apples and oranges, just one plum. :happy2:
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To sumarise Haldex is a little bit sh*t. The end. :wink: If the S3 handled like an Evo which I have had there wouldn't be a problem. Trouble is Haldex feels boring when ur not trying (or cant be bothered to try) which is fine :smiley: BUT when you are trying its still sh*t (unlike the Evo) which is bad and sad..... And back on topic the S3 is overpriced as a performance car but about spot on as a WAG chariot :wink:
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Thought Gen 5 Haldex was pretty good; developed by SAAB before GM killed them and given to VAG in 2012 for the new AWD program. Not sure they developd the swiss cheese RS3 propshafts though, lol.
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Well said TC i for one seen that article and conclusivley agree with you pal! End of! :happy2:
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I was recently looking at the whole Mk7 gti / RS3 / M135i marketplace and ever since the first press videos of the RS3 I really wanted one.
I had the chance to drive one and was disappointed, then we started getting them in for tuning and had the opportunity to drive them a LOT more, but they never really exited me. But as a 4 door practical family car it was ideal.
I waited as they were still to pricy for my pocket and along came the M135i. Coming from a 500+bhp 135i coupe I really wanted one. Then I saw a 4 door with all the spec I wanted, ex demo M135i and bought it, without even driving one! And it's simply brilliant at everything, massive boot, comfy, quick, fun, very subtle and sounded easily as good as the Audi 5pot. Drives very much like an E92 M3 on the road and very revvy, doesn't feel like a turbo engine.
Then a customer with an RS3 we had previously tuned came back in for a remap re-install after a dealer visit had flashed to stock, what the new Audi software install had achieved was to shift even more power to the front wheels as a lame fix for the propshaft issue, this thing at stage 1 under steered badly enough, with Audis 'fix' it was even worse.
The M135i is far from perfect, steering feel isn't typical BMW brilliance, it's artificial and personally I don't like the brakes, but nothing some pads won't sort. I also think there's some electronic intervention in the braking before the ABS cuts in as I feel the braking being controlled at times, and not by my foot. (Still better than the over servo'd VAG feel)
As a tuner people would expect me to have gone wild with my M135i, but I haven't. It's not yet been tuned in any way, and a weekend drive recently made me think twice about tuning it for loads more power as it doesnt need it (others will want more, but not me. On the dyno it makes 350+bhp and 380ftlb already, I have suspicion it has a bmw software 'upgrade'of sorts anyway) maybe some work on throttle mapping (will try and make a linear map) and to smooth out a few niggles in the power curves.
But if the new S3 is similarly priced to the M135i, I can see it selling a lot, many people don't care about feel and fun but more about the other features that a 4wd car offers.
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I don't think you would, I used to think that aswell, but I know for a fact, unless speeds are kept up above 50mph throughout the "run" you wouldn't stand a chance.
I learned that in my 360hp Cupra vs my mates 400hp Evo. In a straight line, there was nothing in it, throw in some roundabouts on the dual carriage way we were on at the time and I was left for dead like seriously left behind.
Infact I can back this up further with a example of track driving.
Millteks 400hp time attack golf mk6 vs the 420hp mk6 golf R of rothe Motorsport. Both had pro drivers, both on direzzas, but the golf R was 0.6 of a sec quicker around hockeheim even though it was 220kg heavier.
I am not getting involved in this discussion because i have not driven a S3 or a RS3, but your track/ race car example doesnt stand up. about 2 months ago some one posted up a fully race prepped TTRS for a Nurburgring event and the 4 wheel drive system had been removed. Obviously we can conclude from this the benefit of the 4wheel drive system was not great enough to beat a lap time of the same car without the weight of the system, no apples and oranges, just one plum. :happy2:
That's because there are restrictions on the car (TTRS) in that race series if they keep 4wd. It is therefore faster with fwd and non of the restrictions which the regulations would place on it of it remained 4wd.
BTCC Audi a4, Audi imsa GTO, and r32 skyline all 4wd and all banned from race series due their 4wd system being deemed an unfair and dominating advantage.
P.s
I've seen the Audi literature on the haldex update. It only alters the load shift on launch, therefore it cannot be any worse than how it was under normal driving.
TTRS users who have had the updated say they haven't noticed any real difference either.
The Audi memo states that the power shift under launch is just less aggressive. I'll see if I can find the exact wording tomorrow.
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The btcc a4... Rear wheel drive afaik.
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http://jalopnik.com/5958856/this-is-audis-insane-front+wheel-drive-tt+rs-racecar (http://jalopnik.com/5958856/this-is-audis-insane-front+wheel-drive-tt+rs-racecar)
Built for the VLN race series whic allows 4wd setups
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http://jalopnik.com/5958856/this-is-audis-insane-front+wheel-drive-tt+rs-racecar (http://jalopnik.com/5958856/this-is-audis-insane-front+wheel-drive-tt+rs-racecar)
Built for the VLN race series whic allows 4wd setups
Yes but there are different classes.
If they kept 4wd and gave it more power it would be in the same class as the r8 gt lms, why compete against yourself. Leave it fwd with less power and compete in class below
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The btcc a4... Rear wheel drive afaik.
You are thinking too modern. I'm talkin B5 Audi, with the factory Audi effort with frank biela driving iirc.
Quattro got banned.
It might also be worth noting that in the targa Tasmania Tarmac rally the top 3 cars of the last 3 years have all been 4wd. Gallardo, GTR and TTRS dominating.
The porka GT2 RS, GT3's etc can't get close. I can only imagine that's due down to the fact the 4wd gives those 3 a big advantage with all the lower speed corners and hairpins. Oh and the Evo's can't match the pace of the TTRS either, so much for their superior 4wd system, and the evos are waaaaay waaaay more developed in terms of aftermarket race parts than the TTRS.
But back to s3 pricing now.
I think 30k isn't bad, that's not including any options, of course, but it doesn't include the dealer discount you are going to inevitably negotiate either.
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Ok.... My mistake. In all honesty I don't think that a 4x4 would be that much of an advantage in btcc...... We digress.
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Ok.... My mistake. In all honesty I don't think that a 4x4 would be that much of an advantage in btcc...... We digress.
Ok quick history lesson on the b5 A4.
it was banned in BTCC ( british touring car campionship) after Frank Biela literaly destroyed the rest of the field with 1995 A4 touring.In 1996,when audi won 7 out of 7 championships
(germany,sweden,UK,South Africa,Italy,Belgium,Spain,New Zeland) the quattro was banned in any touring or supertouring competetition in 1998, even after the continues increases of weight penalties against them.
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Ok.... My mistake. In all honesty I don't think that a 4x4 would be that much of an advantage in btcc...... We digress.
Ok quick history lesson on the b5 A4.
it was banned in BTCC ( british touring car campionship) after Frank Biela literaly destroyed the rest of the field with 1995 A4 touring.In 1996,when audi won 7 out of 7 championships
(germany,sweden,UK,South Africa,Italy,Belgium,Spain,New Zeland) the quattro was banned in any touring or supertouring competetition in 1998, even after the continues increases of weight penalties against them.
Cool story bro....
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Back to the S3...
I'm not keen that there are so many options for wheels, especially as they are all the same size. In my opinion this loses model identity. There should be two options, 18" and 19".
I think the saloon as a better styled car, although an S3 coupe to rival the 135i coupe would even better
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Or.... a really nice 2nd hand Boxster for 30K. I know where my money would be going.
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Not really fair comparing second hand cars, who wants a coxster anyway?
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Interesting debate this - even if it has gone a bit OT.. :grin:
Quich question though... Why are F1 cars rear wheel drive if 4WD is meant to be better road AND track?
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Or.... a really nice 2nd hand Boxster for 30K. I know where my money would be going.
2nd hand vs new, sports coupe vs a family hot hatch.. Different markets entirely.
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This could go on forever! Fan boys arguing each corner :signLOL: awd is great providing its split more to the rear :laugh: but I would agree that awd as a family car in uk is prob more useful, and lots will buy the s3 because of this as apposed to the bm. As for price we all moan about new car prices these days as they all seem overpriced really.
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I thought awd was 50/50 like a Scooby and 4x4 is 40% front 60% rear?
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2
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Interesting debate this - even if it has gone a bit OT.. :grin:
Quich question though... Why are F1 cars rear wheel drive if 4WD is meant to be better road AND track?
Its banned, got banned around the 80's i think. Think it all stems from when teams tried cars with six wheels but not 100% sure.
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I thought awd was 50/50 like a Scooby and 4x4 is 40% front 60% rear?
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2
No, S3s use a haldex system so the majority of the time they are only FWD until slip is detected on the front wheels :happy2:
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I thought awd was 50/50 like a Scooby and 4x4 is 40% front 60% rear?
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2
By awd I meant all four wheels driven, not any particular system
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Interesting debate this - even if it has gone a bit OT.. :grin:
Quich question though... Why are F1 cars rear wheel drive if 4WD is meant to be better road AND track?
4WD in f1 was banned in 1969. Alot of the top teams flirted with the 4wd system, although its was really under-developed, no one put their full weight behind it, a bit like the turbo era, until renault did and after a few dismal years started to dominate and everyone followed suit. Porsche f1 had a system in 1948 in which the driver could switch from 2wd to 4wd from corner to corner.
Having said all that, im not sure F1's current age of super aero development would benefit from 4wd, its definetly alot more applicable to cars that dont benefit much from aero downforce.
Audis lemans hybrids are technically 4wd under max power also as the motors are fitted to the front axle
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Interesting debate this - even if it has gone a bit OT.. :grin:
Quich question though... Why are F1 cars rear wheel drive if 4WD is meant to be better road AND track?
4WD in f1 was banned in 1969. Alot of the top teams flirted with the 4wd system, although its was really under-developed, no one put their full weight behind it, a bit like the turbo era, until renault did and after a few dismal years started to dominate and everyone followed suit. Porsche f1 had a system in 1948 in which the driver could switch from 2wd to 4wd from corner to corner.
Having said all that, im not sure F1's current age of super aero development would benefit from 4wd, its definetly alot more applicable to cars that dont benefit much from aero downforce.
Audis lemans hybrids are technically 4wd under max power also as the motors are fitted to the front axle
Lotus had a 4wd F1 car sometime in the 70's and it was williams 6 wheeled car in the 80's that got 4wd banned.
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I still prefer the mk2!
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All I have to say is .....R32...... Fastest car in the known universe....and 4WD. :innocent:
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Interesting debate this - even if it has gone a bit OT.. :grin:
Quich question though... Why are F1 cars rear wheel drive if 4WD is meant to be better road AND track?
4WD in f1 was banned in 1969. Alot of the top teams flirted with the 4wd system, although its was really under-developed, no one put their full weight behind it, a bit like the turbo era, until renault did and after a few dismal years started to dominate and everyone followed suit. Porsche f1 had a system in 1948 in which the driver could switch from 2wd to 4wd from corner to corner.
Having said all that, im not sure F1's current age of super aero development would benefit from 4wd, its definetly alot more applicable to cars that dont benefit much from aero downforce.
Audis lemans hybrids are technically 4wd under max power also as the motors are fitted to the front axle
Ahh, they ban the fun... didn't they have a NO LIMITS Boosted engine in F1 at one point... and the Rally ERA of Audi Quattros kicking out 6/700bhp. :driver: :jumping:
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1400bhp, back in the 80's in qualifying trim.
Of course the engine would only last around 3 hours, much like APRs work.
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Interesting debate this - even if it has gone a bit OT.. :grin:
Quich question though... Why are F1 cars rear wheel drive if 4WD is meant to be better road AND track?
4WD in f1 was banned in 1969. Alot of the top teams flirted with the 4wd system, although its was really under-developed, no one put their full weight behind it, a bit like the turbo era, until renault did and after a few dismal years started to dominate and everyone followed suit. Porsche f1 had a system in 1948 in which the driver could switch from 2wd to 4wd from corner to corner.
Having said all that, im not sure F1's current age of super aero development would benefit from 4wd, its definetly alot more applicable to cars that dont benefit much from aero downforce.
Audis lemans hybrids are technically 4wd under max power also as the motors are fitted to the front axle
Ahh, they ban the fun... didn't they have a NO LIMITS Boosted engine in F1 at one point... and the Rally ERA of Audi Quattros kicking out 6/700bhp. :driver: :jumping:
Yeah all the best racing was in the 80's and early 90, when it was less aero dependent, and the tree huggers/red tape police weren't so heavily involved. Audi apparently even had a 1000hp mid engine Quattro prototype in development until group B was scrapped.
If only there was a return of the glory days.
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All I have to say is .....R32...... Fastest car in the known universe....and 4WD. :innocent:
He speaks the truth. :notworthy:
1400bhp, back in the 80's in qualifying trim.
Of course the engine would only last around 3 hours, much like APRs work.
:surprised: :laugh: