MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => How to Guides / Troubleshooting => Topic started by: xjay1337 on June 21, 2013, 04:40:45 pm
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I went out for a random drive yesterday evening, thought I'd give it a proper run, some full throttle sort of action.
It was fine until about 5 minutes away from home (probably did a 50-60 mile drive at this point) - Oil pressure light came on, for around 3-4 seconds, and then went out. I continued home as I was so close but under light load/throttle openings.
Checked the oil, it was fine.
Today, drove to work, no problems - at lunch, drove to VW to purchase a replacement oil pipe (as I would guess it's that...?) and floored it up the dual carriageway. Slowing down for the roundabout, came to a stop as there was a car coming, oil pressure light came on again. VW was 200 yards away so nursed it there and shut it down.
No odd noises from engine (at the moment..)
Started it again, no oil light. Revved it to about 3500 and the light came on again. Shut it off and went inside for 10 minutes to buy what I needed.
Came out, started the car up again, no light, 200 yards away again, the light came on, but by this point I was down hill on the dual carriageway, so I shut the engine off and coasted down the hill.
At the bottom there is another roundabout so I started the car again, no light. Drove under light throttle openings (with windows down to be able to check for odd noises which weren't there) and 4 miles back to the office and no warning lights..
Am I right in thinking this would be an oil pick up pipe issue? The pick up pipe should be with me tomorrow fingers crossed. But unsure of when I can get it fitted.
I've only owned the car about a month, I changed the oil and filter about 2 weeks ago. The old oil was pretty clean, the filter was minging. I would say on average the oil had been changed every 12-15k from the service history.
I've been reading online this afternoon and it's either a faulty switch (which I am not going to rule out until we can properly test the oil pressure with a gauge), the pick up pipe, or the oil pump?
But as I said, it's intermittent so I don't think it's the pump.
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Edit 21st June
After resolving the problem I put a DIY together for anyone else wondering.
Here's my guide. Perhaps it can be made a sticky or something.
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Over the last few days I've been getting intermittent low oil pressure warnings on my dash. It would come on for a few seconds and then go out again, or it would come on after high revs/load situations. I panicked and haven't driven it.
After doing some research I found it could be the oil pick up pipe (thanks to Niki at R-tech for the thread he made which alerted me to the problem).
Had to buy the pick up pipe, oil and what not on my credit card :sad1: :sad1: but I was brought a Halfords professional tool kit which was great but has everything you need.
You will also need
At least 5.3 litres 5w/30 or 5w40 oil meeting VW specs. (buy a 5L tub and a 1L bottle)
Oil Filter
06F 115 251 A - Oil Pick Up Pipe (there is also a small seal but I didn't have the part number of this, the VW parts guy put it on, and my ETKA is quite old so doesn't have it
Loctite 5920 (Halfords stock this) or VW sealant (SD1 764 04A 2). The Loctite is 1/4 the price and the same stuff.
10mm socket, spanners
5mm ball headed allen key (quite long)
small flat blade screw driver
rubber mallet
razor blade
heavy duty degreaser (such as G101 or BH Surfex)
2x 500ml cans of brake cleaner (Halfords)
lots of tissue
hand sprayer or hosepipe
I have seen a few posts about this before but not very many and I personally think this issue should have more awareness than it already does. The cost of parts, including the sump sealant, new oil and filter is around £100.. the pick up and pick up seal itself are only £35 from VW.. so next time you change your oil you should consider removing the sump.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg259%2F9574%2Fwih0.jpg&hash=644efa2c8d0e79cd3d46994e12401328f063e145)
Car jacked up and all secured on axle stands with the jack on the suspension arm for extra safety. Ben (my mate lending me a hand!) looking a bit confused :signLOL:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg69%2F2710%2Flwg3.jpg&hash=22e2dacafc8ce9a1c94f86f7bbf2b71140624c8b)
Before Ben arrived I had drained all of the oil already.
Getting the sump off is not actually too difficult. Around 20 10mm bolts, with 3 larger bolts going through the bell housing into the sump. Three of the 10mm bolts were a pain in the arse due to them being angled. You either need a severely wobbly extension or you can use a 5mm ball headed allen key and a spanner, which is what we did. I would start on the 3 bolts that are awkward to get to first personally.
Then you have 2 bolts holding the turbo oil pipe on to the back of the sump. There is a metal gasket on this. As long as you don't bend it or crack it you can re-use it.
When everything is removed you scratch your head wondering why the sump is still magically staying on.. There's a tab on the passengers side which is just enough room to get a screw driver in, wiggle it about (use the shaft if you can not the head to avoid damaging the mating surfaces) and it will drop. Alternatively you can give it a few whacks with the rubber mallet.
The sealant on its own is enough to hold the weight of the sump.
It's not heavy but don't let it fall down.
And here is what you see afterwards..
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg21%2F3060%2Fmej7.jpg&hash=a430f01af69aab21e102a0c2ad5c00f073c0dcf0)
You can see my pick up is well and truly clogged.
The sump itself
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg10%2F3804%2Fbx8f.jpg&hash=96c566c08d66a0fb84aae1a8d286afc8149b61d0)
This is on a car with 86k and that had been previously on long-life oil services, between 12 and 15k. Not too bad but obviously bad enough. There were small grit-like particles all over the bottom of it and especially in the sections lower than the drain hole, obviously where it is not flushed out during a change.
After a thorough clean with brake cleaner, plenty of neat BH Surfex and warm water....much better!!
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg837.imageshack.us%2Fimg837%2F290%2Fy083.jpg&hash=6bb01cbd02a0565115638a16a229cf62aa4422e9)
So we cleaned the mating surface of any remaining sealant/gasket and put in the new oil pickup. The pickup pipe itself is a single bolt with a rubber o-ring seal on the back-side of it. From memory it's a 5mm ball head again.
When you are re-fitting it do not forget to oil the seal prior to installation!
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg13%2F5438%2F33yv.jpg&hash=5bf8737c47bd85bb966425bc5f8088a65ebb147c)
Ben has a much steadier hand than me so he did the application of the sealant. There is an official VW part for this but it's just a high temperature gasket sealant, after doing some research I found that Loctite 5920 (available from Halfords under £6) would be perfectly good. So that's what we used.
A very thin bead is required, 2-4mm, as applied in the picture. Any more than that and it could get sucked up into the oil pick up, pump, or into the turbo! :scared:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg22%2F7752%2Fjp1l.jpg&hash=9bc39b624f7786765c8bcc976374fd8a1d1ff9e7)
The sealant needs approx 30 minutes of "dry time" so don't put any oil in for approx half an hour.
In this time we changed the oil filter, and replaced it with a genuine VW one, complete with 5.3 litres of Mobil 1 5w/30 (what you needed to take you from dry sump and empty filter to max oil level) which left us with nothing to do other than tidy up.
Car started, given 2-3 minutes of idling followed by a few small blips. Engine off, check for any obvious leaks, re-check oil levels - and you are done :D
Sounded much better, idling happier. Gentle warm up drive followed by some blats up and down a dual carriageway revealed no problems! :happy2:
=====Footnote====
If you drive your car exceptionally hard or do lots of short journeys I would personally drop to a 7500 or even 5000 mile oil and filter service schedule. Another thing to avoid COMPLETELY is engine flush - unless you are prepared to do the engine flush and then possibly remove the sump again to inspect/clean out the pick up - A good mate of mine who works in a garage has seen this before as well, and nearly always a few thousand miles after doing a service with an engine flush. It's not something he recommends but unfortunately when you work for a company you have to do what they tell you.
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Also does anyone know what tools you need to remove the sump? I've done some reading and there seems to be 30 t30 pieces? but 3 others which are of unknown type..
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I would look at the pick up in the sump first as its a issue with them as you know
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Cheers Andy... Yeah hoping the part arrives at VW tomorrow.. we will get it done.
Needs to be done before Sunday really as some special parts are getting fitted and I'd need to drive 30 miles to Maidenhead which I don't want to do with an iffy oil system.
Checked in the oil cap and there are little bitty things all over it and in the tube - so imagine the pick up is whats blocked. Possibly due to the longer interval services, then me putting high quality new oil and filter in has started to flush things through...
Touch wood no damage was done but cannot guarantee that's the problem till we drop the sump tomorrow.
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Fingers crossed you find the solution tomorrow
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Hi mate
Have a read of my thread. Link below
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,68307.0.html
I had the same problem. Change of oil feed pipe and good clean of the sump did the job. Also i can find out what tool you need to open the sump.
How u get gey it sorted.
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Regarding removing the sump, you will need 5mm hex or allen key. The bolts around the sump are easy to get to apart from 2 near the gearbox/flywheel. They are at an angle. Try removing these before attempting to remove the rest.
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I did a guide of how to do this when I did the work, I'll post it up in this thread soon, maybe it can be stickied to help other people.
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^^ Good man. :smiley:
That will be extremely useful (and cost saving) if anyone has the same issue. It's great to see members helping each other out!
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*edit, removed and put at end of the first post*
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Oil pickup issues we're prevelant on the Trionic 7 SAAB's... after cleaning / replacing the pickup, lots of turbo's died :confused: Simply because they had been starved for so long, weakend and then experience full boost... not sure if this will be an issue on the K03, but it was always an annoying preventative maintenance issue on the T7's.
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I can't believe how bad your pick up was. Whipped my sump off last week and after 72k was still mint.
Worth checking at service intervals at higher mileage for sure :happy2:
One thing to note is that the turbo oil pipe bolts are spline and don't come in the halfords set (not in my 170pc one anyway) closest thing was T40, that I used to undo them but realised when it came to tightening them back up
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If it helps anyone I've got a pick up pipe in the classifieds :happy2:
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,83849.0.html (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,83849.0.html)
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After reading all these oil pick up threads I changed mine 3 weeks ago to be on the safe side :happy2:
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After reading all these oil pick up threads I changed mine 3 weeks ago to be on the safe side :happy2:
For the cost of it, it's certainly worth checking at service time.
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That's what I said to the garage as they said what's the point yours looks fine, I just said the sumps out now and the new ones in your hand so just change it anyway. plus I got my sump blasted out so looked brand new before it got sealed back together and filled with oil lol
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To be honest I would've re fitted my old one as it was mint but I'd already paid for the new one. Like you say, it's there so may aswel fit it lol
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:happy2:
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Great post, anyone else not able to see the images though :(
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Yeah, imageshack have moved them and I don't have the pictures anymore.. not that important anyway, it's all basic :happy2:
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Just to add to this guide. The tool you need to get to the three f*cking bolts is a 5mm ball headed hex. At least 100mm long and 3/8" drive. You'll struggle with a regular 5mm ball headed Allen key
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Just to add to this guide. The tool you need to get to the three f*cking bolts is a 5mm ball headed hex. At least 100mm long and 3/8" drive. You'll struggle with a regular 5mm ball headed Allen key
I did manage with a regular ball headed allen key but i think i was just lucky. Did you get the sump off?
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Yes. Pita. Rounded one bolt nearly. Need to have the right tools
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Yes. Pita. Rounded one bolt nearly. Need to have the right tools
The good thing about these is you can use an allan or socket. Was the pipe clogged?
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You can only use a socket on some of them. The twat bolts need and Allen. The pick up was annoyingly clean.
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You can only use a socket on some of them. The twat bolts need and Allen. The pick up was annoyingly clean.
Well its good to know its done. Have you put the sump back on? If not do a few test fits first without the sealant.
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Rich very kindly guided me through the removal and replacement of my sump yesterday!
I did some of the donkey work - loosening and removing the 20 or so bolts, cleaning the sump pan and replacing most of the bolts again but I certainly wouldn't have done it without Rich's reassurance and total confidence. Big thank you!
Kind of annoyingly (but fortunately), the sump was surprisingly crud free and the pick up pipe or suction pipe as VW likes to call it, was almost totally clean save for a few bits of muck at the very edges.
Having done it now I think trial fitting the sump without any sealant is a very good idea. We had a problem with one or two bolts that wouldn't bite cleanly which added time and a little frustration to what had been a pretty seamless operation. 3 of the sump bolts are quite awkwardly placed and only accessible using the long allen key with a ball head so any misalignment is especially frustrating. A trial fit may have prevented this. A bungee is useful too; keeps the turbo oil return from fouling as the sump pan is removed and re-attached.
We lucked out with the weather, the 5mm ball headed long reach Allen key bit being available at Rich's local parts shop(a must have) and I especially lucked out having a patient pal like Rich to direct sump removal operations and the kind use of his driveway, ramps and tools.
I think we'll be doing Rich's sump and pick up next!
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Rich's total confidence from him texting me all morning :signLOL: :signLOL:
He's alright our big chinned barstewards :)
Pickup being clean is good, means the car has been well serviced and looking after.
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I wont text you again then.....
I would have rung you but lisps don't translate down a phone line very well. :P
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Genius test your DIY skills on a members car first. :evilgrin:
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Genius test your DIY skills on a members car first. :evilgrin:
:signLOL:
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I was witness to a bit of big chin scratching and a tad of swearing but I motored home to SW London in half the time it took me to get to Hemel and oil level is still good today! Thanks Jamie for your test bed and advise by text. Think Alex should get a mention too!
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Alex did f-all... including not answering the bloody phone. :signLOL:
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I think before I do mine im gonna make some M7x1mm 6" studs to help align the sum when refitting. Although having seen the cleanness of Pauls, I am in 2 minds whether to do mine.
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I think before I do mine im gonna make some M7x1mm 6" studs to help align the sum when refitting. Although having seen the cleanness of Pauls, I am in 2 minds whether to do mine.
I spent about 10 mins on my back with the cleaned sump working out the best way to get it back in without disturbing the sealant. My arms were fooked.
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Yeah.. not easy when the turbo return pipe is flapping around, and the front aux water pump gets in the way too.
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@rich83 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=709) you done your cam chain yet? Maybe @galaxie500 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=4344) will let you do his first. :party:
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:signLOL: :signLOL: :signLOL: no not yet
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Sump - not a major problem..... AND I got home the same day in my own car.
Chain cam. In Hemel Hempstead. I'll pass thanks!
Come on Wales!!
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I think before I do mine im gonna make some M7x1mm 6" studs to help align the sum when refitting. Although having seen the cleanness of Pauls, I am in 2 minds whether to do mine.
I spent about 10 mins on my back with the cleaned sump working out the best way to get it back in without disturbing the sealant. My arms were fooked.
I don't see the difficulty.
Just hold it out the way and lift it on.
Eaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasy.
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I wont text you again then.....
I would have rung you but lisps don't translate down a phone line very well. :P
Oi you cheeky c@nt!!!!! :signLOL: :signLOL: :signLOL: :signLOL:
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:love:
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Apologies for adding to old thread, but seemed best place for a little good news re oil pickup pipe?
My 207, 118k mls Ed30 about to go 2+, and probably a keeper for a couple of years yet???
As a company car from new, and on extended intervals service scheme, (what bollox..!.) And with a slightly "sketchy" service history, I decided to get this potentially major issue resolved.
Over past 3 years has ben run on Shell Helix Ulta 5-40W, changed at 5-6k miles, mostly long runs.
Good news!
Sump found clean and bright, oil pickup appeared to be as clean as new; however already had a new pipe (£35!) so replaced anyway - I don't plan on opening this up again!
Hope this report helps someone prioritise their budget, perhaps better spent than mine?