MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Track Day Technical => Topic started by: Msportman on June 24, 2013, 10:59:27 pm
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Anyone had experience of both kits on their Mk5 gti?
Is there any difference in ride quality for the road? I previously found the CLubsports very comfortable but with my new ED 30 I would be interested from anyone who has had both. I was quoted £1400 for a B16 kit today all in. Only difference is you would be missing out on the camber adjustment which in my view if you fit either Tt wishbones or a WALK kit my be waste of money.
I will use it for track occasionally but mostly on the road.
Any opinions will be good.
Was also considering V3's but am told B16's are better?
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AST's :happy2:
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Must admit, I loved the ASTs on the APR demo Golf R. Eons ahead of the KWV3 IMO.
Reference the camber, you could just stick on the Superpro adjustable ball joints.
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Must admit, I loved the ASTs on the APR demo Golf R. Eons ahead of the KWV3 IMO.
Reference the camber, you could just stick on the Superpro adjustable ball joints.
In what respect do you mean EOns?
I'm quite convinced from suppliers and tuners that the BIlsteins are the way forward. I found the Vwr Demo car running their own suspension set up quite stiff compared to the KW's but it was also running quite stiff ARB's and from memory had poly bushes and updated engine mounts.
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Bilstein pss9's have soft spring rates so are a comfortable coilover kit but will bottom out if you are a hard track day driver.
Don't forget with the AST's you can choose your own spring rates.
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Pss10's are amazing. Springs are fairly hard compared to H&R with a much smoother ride than the KW's. Great for track and road use. AST's are great but loads more money.
Combine the B16's with ground control top mounts like myself and a few other members have for easy camber adjustability. AST and KW top mounts really need the dome cutting off the car to adjust them.
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Pss10's are amazing. Springs are fairly hard compared to H&R with a much smoother ride than the KW's. Great for track and road use. AST's are great but loads more money.
Combine the B16's with ground control top mounts like myself and a few other members have for easy camber adjustability. AST and KW top mounts really need the dome cutting off the car to adjust them.
Where did you get your's fitted? Have you a link to the ground control mounts. Is entail laser alignment ever time for camber adjustments?
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I can supply, fit and align them. Few pics in my build thread and on the aks tuning facebook page.
Everytime the camber is adjusted the toe will change.
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Alex fitted and setup my Bilsteins with ground control top mounts and superpro ball joints and Oh my god it handles superbly. :driver:
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I can supply, fit and align them. Few pics in my build thread and on the aks tuning facebook page.
Everytime the camber is adjusted the toe will change.
Where are you based?
Would you remmend a WALK kit or the Superpro with Bilsteins....just wondering if I go with camber djustment on the kit where toe is affected will I need the other kits to compliment....long term I'm thinking diff in any case.
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Where are you based?
If you click on the link in his signature, it will take you to his website where you can see where he works. :wink:
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Quick update:
Ordered my KW Clubsports via TSR in Somerset and down the road from me. I know the guys there and have a long history building my 16v with them. Hopefully will be fitted next week.
WALK ordered too together with quick shift and engine mount kit.
I had VW fit the Kenwood DAB DNX fitted but the glass mounted aerial didn't work very well so VW fitted a DAB shark fin which looks much better and more proffessional.
In discussion with APR VWR for stage 2+ with VWR intake clutch and diff kit. Wil put RSC and usual APR bi't and bobs on.
I am debating on putting the VWR brake kit and running a second set of wheels with Dunlop Dirreza's track rubber for next year.
Should be great when finished hopefully.
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Clubsports fitted in conjunction with WALK.
Running 2 degrees -ve at the mo which admittedly gives brilliant turn in and positive mid bend traction.
Using Continental Contact Sports but I intend to run Dunlop Direzzas.
Big brakes are on their way thanks to Daveb. Will be popping on AP's.
Next up will APR Stage 2+ (New Code) APR RSC and induction kit.....probably VWR kit.
This will I am sure lead to a clutch and diff.
I will post some pics up this week.
I take my hat off and certainly give the nod to the GTI Engineering / BBR map.....lovely and smooth and powerful. The guy I bought the car off works as a technician in F1 and works at the Mercedes Petronas factory in Brackley and knows his stuff and he had it mapped next door to the factory at BBR's premises.
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Have the S3 spindle, TT arms and adjustable OEM ball joints. Interested if the Superpro ball joints can still bring an improvement over my setup. What adjustability of camber do they bring and how much do they raise the roll center ? No info found on their website !
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Superpro adjustable ball joints fit stock Golf and S3 arms, but not TT arms. You certainly
know these have different style (two-piece) ball joints, mate. :wink:
Bilstein B16 compare to Sachs Performance and KW Variant 3. Stock-like soft spring rates,
but better dampers and adjustability. Get Sachs Performance if you want linear spring
rates. KW V1-V3 coilovers come with progressive front springs, Bilstein B14/B16 coilovers
come with progressive springs both front and rear (and also suffer from bearing noise).
KW Clubsports compare to Bilstein CSC Clubsports, H&R RSA Clubsports, AST and the new
Öhlins Road & Track. Don't get anything else before you haven't at least considered the
brand new Öhlins.
All these clubsport coilovers come with standardized 60 mm dia linear race-type springs,
hence easily swapping spring rates and lengths.
http://www.roadandtrackbyohlins.com/
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ebayimg.com%2Ft%2FOhlins-Road-Track-Gewindefahrwerk-VW-Golf-VI-GTI-%2F00%2Fs%2FNjQxWDkxNA%3D%3D%2Fz%2FEiAAAOxy14VRQuMn%2F%24T2eC16VHJHEE9ny2rS-4BRQuMmt%2528VQ%7E%7E60_35.JPG&hash=ab465c2b53e2bb6cfff2b5df614de15dbd50984c)
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I see Ohlins states their coilovers have 70n/mm (399lbs/in) springs on front and 60N/mm (342lbs/in) at the rear ! Are they linear springs ? (from the pics they look like they are) Price is around 3200-3500Euro, so even a litle less than Bilstein Clubsport (4000E) but more than KW clubsport (2500E)
PS : What were the spring rates for PSS9/10 ?
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Yes, Road & Track are linear only.
Bilstein B16 springs are rumored as:
B16 PSS10 Golf 5:
VA: E4-FD1-Y704A00 > progressive; rate from 32.8 N/mm to 43.4 N/mm; 39 N/mm static
HA: E4-FD1-Y754A00 > progressive; rate from 33.0 N/mm to 50.1 N/mm; 50 N/mm static
R32 B16: (very) slightly stiffer.
Conclusion:
Öhlins R&T springs form a compromise between most street coilovers and clubsports. As
these are linear 60 mm dia standard, it'd be easy to replace them with the rate you want.
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Hmm, if so, the Ohlins is noticeably stiffer...do they also have a camber plate ? (can't see that on the pics). I really wonder if these can bring a good improvement over my B16 so I can justify spending that much on them. Also concerned about reliability on bad roads (B16 is the king of reliability from what I've seen by now among progressive coilovers)
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"Use with original top mounts"
However, they come with their own aluminium upper spring perches.
See both the product sheet and installation manual:
http://www.roadandtrackbyohlins.com/
Regarding reliability, consider Öhlins are known for making great rallye car suspensions for ages.
:wink:
ps
I did write him an email, but still waiting for some feedback.
pps:
L.T.L. Sport
Str. Slatina nr. 1/18
Cluj Napoca 400597
Romania
Email: laszlol.tamas@gmail.com
Phone: +40 722344730
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Ha ha.. the town I live in...
I might pay him a visit :).
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Will be ordering the R&T at the beginning of next spring. Does anyone know if :
1) Are they willing to custom valve the dampers and deliver them with stiffer springs ? (say 90-100N/mm front and 75-80N/mm rear)
2) How much more spring rate does the damper as it is allow without ruining the superb balance ? (say mabe going from 70/60 to 80/70 is still safe for these dampers without revalving or losing some pf the 20 steps of adjustement)
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Did you write to Öhlins in Sweden? If so; I'd appreciate to read their answer.
Commonly, 30 % or even more increase should not be any great deal at all.
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I did write Ohlins on facebook but they've sent me to the Romanian dealer who was very expeditive with not too many details. 30% would be more than enough but I'd like to hear their answer, not some dealer that doesn't seem to know too much or is cheap on words !
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Swift springs answered my email >
"General rule of thumb that a lot of coilover manufacturers say is 2kg up and down. Most users we work with go as far as 4kg up and down without feeling extremely oversprung.
And in your case going 2kg up in rate will not be an issue at all. The Ohlin shocks tend to have a fairly big range in damping adjustment. The part numbers you found are correct for what you are looking for. For a track setup however especially on a GTI most people like the way the car feels with a slightly stiffer rear spring rate over the front. So I would suggest maybe a
f-8kg/R-9kg
f-9kg/R-10kg
Of course these are just suggestions, based off of what we see a lot of people running for their track setup."