MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: john_o on August 17, 2009, 11:55:13 am

Title: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: john_o on August 17, 2009, 11:55:13 am
lots of talk and pictures on various threads of the state of our inlet valves due to breathing all the fumes....
1. golfmkv.com + using seafoam to clear
2. jonnyc's S3 rebuild thread

Im coming from the position that it does happen btw.
So cmon knowledgeable people what can we do?

I think we should also consider the cars mileage at point of change and any remedial measures you may be able to take before changing the breathing?

what Im looking to do is clarify the possible stages we can apply.
List the change and the approx cost, is it MOTable , any downsides ?
e.g. simple venting , BSH kits, catchcan .....
intention is to add data to the FAQ  :happy2:
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: tony_danza on August 17, 2009, 12:00:16 pm
EuroJet PCV fit.  (http://www.20squared.com/product_p/5.1.025.htm)

Basically an uprated check valve & hose in the OEM location - certainly uses a hell of a lot less oil that before, and cheap too.

£40-ish
No issues with emissions for MOT
No downsides as far as I can tell after 6 months.
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: joesgti on August 17, 2009, 12:27:46 pm
id want mine to be clean then do the fix!!..............
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: Hurdy on August 17, 2009, 12:40:25 pm
Mike (T-D)

Does the Eurojet get any issues with recirculating moisture into the engine?

From what I have heard, the catch can system tends to capture a fair amount of moisture as well as oil and crud :sick:

I may well go this way if it is a sure fire way of passing emissions without having to empty a can every month or so. Also with the catchcan I've heard reports that the entry pipe can get blocked as well as issues with freezing in cold weather.

I'll not have any deposits in the engine ports, valves inlets etc once I've swapped the block over to the new one and so will be starting from scratch so to speak. :smiley:
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: SteveP on August 17, 2009, 12:55:23 pm
^^^ Mine had lots of moisture/condensation in the can as well as foamy oil.

This was the content of mine after less than 2k miles running the BSH Stage 2 Fix: -

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fkk207%2FStevep_010%2Fphoto-4.jpg&hash=c44f965b8e7b3ab26f5b5ecc31c63c89e0aa3d77)
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: Hurdy on August 17, 2009, 01:04:28 pm
^^^ Mine had lots of moisture/condensation in the can as well as foamy oil.

This was the content of mine after less than 2k miles running the BSH Stage 2 Fix: -

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fkk207%2FStevep_010%2Fphoto-4.jpg&hash=c44f965b8e7b3ab26f5b5ecc31c63c89e0aa3d77)

OMFG :surprised: :scared:

How on earth does the car cope with all that sh*t without a catch can then?

I gather the result of not having a catch can is inevitably baked deposits in the intake area.

The only other viable option would be to vent to air then and when MOT time comes around move back to the PCV. Assuming you can put up with the oily smell :sick:
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: tony_danza on August 17, 2009, 01:06:24 pm
Mike (T-D)

Does the Eurojet get any issues with recirculating moisture into the engine?

From what I have heard, the catch can system tends to capture a fair amount of moisture as well as oil and crud :sick:

I may well go this way if it is a sure fire way of passing emissions without having to empty a can every month or so. Also with the catchcan I've heard reports that the entry pipe can get blocked as well as issues with freezing in cold weather.

I'll not have any deposits in the engine ports, valves inlets etc once I've swapped the block over to the new one and so will be starting from scratch so to speak. :smiley:

I don't see how it could, as it is a completely closed system from the atmosphere, just like the OEM one - it just has a much stronger check valve to cope with the increases in pressure seen from mapping. I certainly don't have any mayo in my oil/on my cap/on the dipstick

I was chewing through a litre of oil a track day, doesn't touch a drop now and I've had it on for a 'Ring trip & 2 track days.  Maybe the simple things just work well?
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: bacillus on August 17, 2009, 01:58:12 pm


Does the Eurojet get any issues with recirculating moisture into the engine?

What you see being caught in the catch can will recirculate into your engine with the EJ fix.

Quote

From what I have heard, the catch can system tends to capture a fair amount of moisture as well as oil and crud :sick:

I may well go this way if it is a sure fire way of passing emissions without having to empty a can every month or so. Also with the catchcan I've heard reports that the entry pipe can get blocked as well as issues with freezing in cold weather.

If you don't want the catch can for whatever reason then I suggest your get the BSH revamp in preference to the Eurojet fix. Either of those two will pass the MOT.
http://www.bshspeedshop.com/store/product.php?productid=16937&cat=1011&page=1

Should you decide that the revamp isn't enough after buying it then you can upgrade to include the catch can without paying the full cost of the stage 2 catch can kit.
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: bacillus on August 17, 2009, 02:19:36 pm
As for the "I've heard reports that the entry pipe can get blocked as well as issues with freezing in cold weather" I wouldn't worry as a) in the UK we don't experience the prolonged sub zero temperatures where this issue occurs and b) the BSH catch can has been redesigned without the steel wool  plus the port flow has been reversed from version 1.

hth
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: Deako on August 17, 2009, 02:24:28 pm
With the BSH Stage 1 fix, all that mayo gunk is just going to get blown back into the rocker cover isnt it?
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: tony_danza on August 17, 2009, 02:35:39 pm
The mayo is a result of being exposed to a damp atmosphere, vapour condensing in the catch can. There's no mayo with the OEM system, so how can there be with the other sealed ones?

Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: RedRobin on August 17, 2009, 02:46:00 pm

id want mine to be clean then do the fix!!..............


....A good point but, as I understand it, you'd have to remove the head and clean the (?)valves(?) - Either not for the faint hearted or expensive.

Perhaps it's rather like giving up smoking - I gave up about 20 years ago and understand that my lungs will have 'self-cleaned'.
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: joesgti on August 17, 2009, 02:50:41 pm
yea, but i doubt you car engine has 'self-cleaning' in it!!  :signLOL:
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: RedRobin on August 17, 2009, 03:17:56 pm

yea, but i doubt you car engine has 'self-cleaning' in it!!  :signLOL:


....Doubtful perhaps, but if V-Power really does have 'cleaners' it's logical that some 'self-cleaning' might occur.

It's a valid question though because most of us won't be removing our heads (the engine's heads that is).
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: tony_danza on August 17, 2009, 03:23:16 pm
I used to run Forte treatment through my diesel MK4, I know there's a petrol version of the stuff too - I usually laugh at stuff like that, but it really did strip all the crap out of my motor.
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: john_o on August 17, 2009, 03:34:38 pm
going well so far  :happy2:

remember that the engine direct injects petrol into the cylinder so any 'treatment' would have to go through the intake side... (e.g. why the seafoam idea raised its head)
fuel additives be it in the petrol from the pumps or via addition by bottle will have no effect on the specific deposits we are talking about will it?
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: SteveP on August 17, 2009, 03:40:02 pm
^^^ What is this seafoam you speak of Mr John_o  :confused:
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: john_o on August 17, 2009, 03:45:01 pm
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81247 (http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81247)

I would be very cautious about attempting it! its just worth reviewing and talking about....
The best thing may be to add a fix of some sort and leave the existing intake deposits well alone........
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: joesgti on August 17, 2009, 03:50:13 pm
i think im just more confussled!!! 

 :popcornsoda:
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: tony_danza on August 17, 2009, 03:52:47 pm
Check out Troy McLure explaining it....  :surprised:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6187290865726229173
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: Deako on August 17, 2009, 04:05:16 pm
The mayo is a result of being exposed to a damp atmosphere, vapour condensing in the catch can. There's no mayo with the OEM system, so how can there be with the other sealed ones?



Thats good then. Im just going to go for the BSH Stage 1 fix and not have to worry about emptying the catch can.  :happy2:
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: tony_danza on August 17, 2009, 04:06:52 pm
Does look a much better made product to be fair, Deako - I'm sure you'll not go wrong with it.
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: joesgti on August 17, 2009, 04:17:15 pm
Check out Troy McLure explaining it....  :surprised:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6187290865726229173

so who wants a go on mine??  :innocent:

i really want it clean as i dont see the point in doing the fix when its already dirty!!
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: john_o on August 17, 2009, 04:22:41 pm
it is worth it joe at virtually any point (a PCV fix of some sort)  :happy2:, but I guess if it gets to 100,000 miles maybe not!  :signLOL:

and keep in mind we cant add it to the fuel (as shown in that vid ) for it to work at the worst bit.................
no way Id add it to the oil!
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: joesgti on August 17, 2009, 04:32:10 pm
well mines got 45k on it so they will be BAKED in the sh*te!!!!!!!

need more ways of knowing how to clean if that seafoam stuff doenst work on ours.
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: Deako on August 17, 2009, 04:42:14 pm
It'll mostly be on the inlet valves, so a good start would be getting the inlet manifold off and just getting your hands dirty with some cleaner.
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: snapey on August 17, 2009, 04:55:10 pm
I'm not convinced that the sea foam will do a lot let alone anything. There’s no way that any amount of fluid left to its own accord will shift the baked on carbon around the valves. It'll take some serious pressure and for it to be directed at a precise point to even shift it.

Easiest comparison that I can think of making is by taking a car that’s done 40K miles and hasn't ever had the exhaust cleaned, is spraying it over with some shampoo going to do anything? No you need to scrub the git back to get it back to its best.

In theory I'd love to say it'd work but without actually seeing any evidence of it doing anything I'm not convinced.

Luke
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: candy turbo on August 17, 2009, 05:01:52 pm
in my mk2 rs escort days i used to use holts engine flush before an oil change and tbh it worked really well , dont know if you could use it in a modern engine though ? :wink:
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: BMX on August 17, 2009, 05:53:52 pm
pardon my ignorance but is this why my ed30 has oil round the cap regularly, if so could you just buy a catch can and make your own tap offs etc would be alot cheeper
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: candy turbo on August 17, 2009, 06:05:42 pm
^^^^^^^^ the kit is only £100 cant be worth trying to make your own ???
    SO , I VE BEEN LOOKING AT THIS FOR A WHILE NOW , WHICH IS THE BEST SET UP TO GO FOR ??????
 my cars only done 7 k miles so should not be too messed up  :happy2:
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: BMX on August 17, 2009, 06:29:52 pm
^^^^^^^^ the kit is only £100 cant be worth trying to make your own ???
    SO , I VE BEEN LOOKING AT THIS FOR A WHILE NOW , WHICH IS THE BEST SET UP TO GO FOR ??????
 my cars only done 7 k miles so should not be too messed up  :happy2:

where is it £100?
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on August 17, 2009, 06:30:45 pm
^^^^^^^^ the kit is only £100 cant be worth trying to make your own ???
    SO , I VE BEEN LOOKING AT THIS FOR A WHILE NOW , WHICH IS THE BEST SET UP TO GO FOR ??????
 my cars only done 7 k miles so should not be too messed up  :happy2:

where is it £100?

I think that is for the revamp without the catch can...
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: BMX on August 17, 2009, 06:35:46 pm
^^^^^^^^ the kit is only £100 cant be worth trying to make your own ???
    SO , I VE BEEN LOOKING AT THIS FOR A WHILE NOW , WHICH IS THE BEST SET UP TO GO FOR ??????
 my cars only done 7 k miles so should not be too messed up  :happy2:

where is it £100?

I think that is for the revamp without the catch can...

yep £180 plus delivery or try your luck on ebay auction
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: DanGB on August 17, 2009, 07:00:22 pm
I got mine for £112 off ebay. from the UK distributor.
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: bacillus on August 17, 2009, 07:35:52 pm
I got mine for £112 off ebay. from the UK distributor.

That's quite a bargin...    :happy2:
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: cmdrfire on August 17, 2009, 07:41:33 pm
I imported my BSH stage one from BSH direct for around £100.
Worth it in my opinion... I've been thinking about the catch can for a long time but meh.
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: candy turbo on August 17, 2009, 08:32:33 pm
yep , latest version with catch can from uk importer on ebay is £108  :happy2:
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: Top Cat on August 17, 2009, 09:06:02 pm
yep , latest version with catch can from uk importer on ebay is £108  :happy2:

Link please  :happy2: i have bid on two of these over the last week after PG got his for £100 and they have both gone for over £150  :sad1:
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: SteveP on August 17, 2009, 09:07:08 pm
Edit was just above to post the same as TC,  as he says the starting price is £100 for the Stage 2 kit, the latest one to finish in 2 hours is already at £146.

I was lucky to get mine when they first started selling them so got it for £100 as no one else bid on it  :smiley:
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: Deako on August 17, 2009, 09:08:20 pm
I bought the stage 1 fix on the buy it now earlier for £76 inc P&P. Watched all the stage 2 fixes lately, but everyone has cottoned on, and they dont go cheap any more.
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: john_o on August 20, 2009, 02:11:10 pm
ok , quick summary so far

in the meantime a  BSH PCV fix possible ebay / group buy thread... (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=7001.0) has popped up...

MOT compliant options

EuroJet PCV valve (http://www.20squared.com/product_p/5.1.025.htm)
uprated check valve & hose in the OEM location
£40

 Forge oil seperator manifold and catch tank   (http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/content.asp?inc=blog&i=27)
(not yet available but coming soon)
          
 BSH Stage 1  (http://www.bshspeedshop.com/store/product.php?productid=16937&cat=1011&page=1)
no can , oil fumes still circulate

BSH Stage 2  (http://www.bshspeedshop.com/store/product.php?productid=16952&cat=1011&page=1)
(note there is an upgrade kit available from stage1 , which I presume adds a modified 'plate' and a catch can)

(there also appears to be a high capacity catch can with dipstick measure (from 7 to 32 floz) kit available , those above use the small catch can)


Non MOT compliant

 BSH Race version  (http://www.bshspeedshop.com/store/product.php?productid=16997&cat=1011&page=1)

or DIY vent to air!

General Info

General BSH PCV page
http://www.bshspeedshop.com/store/home.php?cat=1011      

seafoaming info : http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81247
           : http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6187290865726229173

add RR great pic link
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.carbing.co.jp%2Fenglish%2Fproducts%2Fcatch%2Fimage%2Ftheory_oil.gif&hash=59e3c160a905d65a260f86c3f57b142558740927)
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: bacillus on August 20, 2009, 02:21:15 pm
Just be careful if you want to purchase the larger size can as I'm pretty sure it won't fit on the driver's side with the charcoal cannister in situ. It should fit on the passenger side though.
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: DanGB on August 20, 2009, 02:35:27 pm
for the guys who have these installed, whould the tap at the bottom be screwed in at all times or open up, as ive been running mine for over 500miles and nothing has collected in there yet..
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: john_o on August 20, 2009, 02:35:52 pm
cheers bacillus  :happy2:
would you consider the 'small' catch can to be sufficient?
and if it fills up fully is that an issue?
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: bacillus on August 20, 2009, 02:55:46 pm
cheers bacillus  :happy2:
would you consider the 'small' catch can to be sufficient?
and if it fills up fully is that an issue?

I think the smaller can is more than adequate for most folk provided you drain it every 1500 miles or so initially.
What's captured in the can really varies from car to car, what type of driving you do and time of year (you collect more during the colder months vs summer). You should get a feel after 2-3 draining on how much "stuff" you're collecting though I do wish the can came with a view window.

If the can fills up then only the excess collection after that point will go back through the return hose to the inlet valve port but hopefully with due diligence it should never get to that point.
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: RedRobin on August 20, 2009, 02:59:05 pm
^^^^
IIRC, the Forge offering has a view 'window'.
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: Deako on August 20, 2009, 03:01:02 pm
You might also have to sell a kidney to buy one.

To be honest though, if you didnt like the standard catch can offered in the Stage 2 fix, you could easily buy a £20 one from ebay that will do the job perfectly.
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: bacillus on August 20, 2009, 03:03:33 pm
for the guys who have these installed, whould the tap at the bottom be screwed in at all times or open up, as ive been running mine for over 500miles and nothing has collected in there yet..

You want the tap closed at all times except when draining and else you'll experience a boost leak.

I wouldn't worry about the lack of condensed gunge in the can atm as the weather is good. When it turns colder the can will start filling at a greater rate.
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: RedRobin on August 20, 2009, 08:33:07 pm

I wouldn't worry about the lack of condensed gunge in the can atm as the weather is good. When it turns colder the can will start filling at a greater rate.


....Are we about to stumble on the secret recipe for Coca-Cola? :evilgrin:
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: john_o on August 21, 2009, 12:03:14 pm
^^^^^
you can be the first honorary taster RR  :signLOL:

appreciate the responses everyone  :happy2:

I have added a new thread in FAQ section and moved all the info across
 2.0TFSI : PCV / Intake valve clogging : what/why/common solutions (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=7040.msg108924#new)
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: candy turbo on August 21, 2009, 04:48:57 pm
when i come to fit this will me having the forge dv affect fitting ???????????? :confused:
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: candy turbo on August 21, 2009, 05:05:39 pm
just looked on forge and bsh web sites , i dont think it will cause dv uses different hose for vacume i think can some one confirm this ?????
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: bacillus on August 21, 2009, 05:15:51 pm
when i come to fit this will me having the forge dv affect fitting ???????????? :confused:

No, not in the slightest...   :smiley:
Title: Re: lets discuss 2.0TFSI crankcase ventilation : PCV options etc
Post by: SteveP on August 21, 2009, 07:12:33 pm
for the guys who have these installed, whould the tap at the bottom be screwed in at all times or open up, as ive been running mine for over 500miles and nothing has collected in there yet..

It should be screwed all the way out, as the value is at the top of the thread inside the can so is closed when the screw is out  :happy2: