MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => How to Guides / Troubleshooting => Topic started by: Dal on July 16, 2013, 06:22:41 pm

Title: Lack of boost
Post by: Dal on July 16, 2013, 06:22:41 pm
Hi. The boost seems to have dropped on my GTI. I had the diverter valve checked at a dealer and he said it was fine. However he also said that they had never seen a problem with these valves and that it was just forum hysteria. I'm guessing he was talking crap. Does anyone have any other suggestions as to why the power is down?
Cheers
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: Tortaruga on July 16, 2013, 10:23:10 pm
Could be an intercooler pipe has disconnected.
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: Dal on July 16, 2013, 10:29:49 pm
Thanks for the advice, I'll check that out tomorrow  :happy2:
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: BalanceMotorsport on July 17, 2013, 03:42:51 pm
Hi. The boost seems to have dropped on my GTI. I had the diverter valve checked at a dealer and he said it was fine. However he also said that they had never seen a problem with these valves and that it was just forum hysteria. I'm guessing he was talking crap. Does anyone have any other suggestions as to why the power is down?
Cheers

It is certainly not forum hysteria! The OE Diaphragm valve splits after a very short lifecycle. The replacement plastic valve doesn't split but by design even when new, leaks boost. Luckily there is a now a solution to this problem from GFB. They have just released (as of last night I was the first uk dealer briefed on this new product) a patented replacement valve that keeps all the advantages of  solenoid operation but will last indefinitely and hold as much boost as you throw at it.

I'm hoping someone would like to try one of these valves free of charge and report on the outcome?


At the risk of having this post removed here is a link to a page with more information on the new valve.

http://www.balancemotorsport.co.uk/main.asp?sitepages=GFBPlusVAGTSIFSI

thanks
Julian
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on July 17, 2013, 08:19:25 pm

1st volunteer here!!!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on July 17, 2013, 08:20:35 pm

1st volunteer here!!!  :laugh:

If it helps Ive had a WALK & Bump steer kit from you in the past  :innocent:   haha
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: Top Cat on July 17, 2013, 08:46:15 pm

1st volunteer here!!!  :laugh:

If it helps Ive had a WALK & Bump steer kit from you in the past  :innocent:   haha



Yes! That will defo help.    :laugh:  he also drove it once as well I seem to remember, so as long as this valve won't turn to dust for lack of use, Mike would be a great test mule.
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on July 17, 2013, 08:55:06 pm

Chortle  :grin:

Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: BalanceMotorsport on July 17, 2013, 10:16:48 pm

1st volunteer here!!!  :laugh:

Excellent! please can you drop me an email and I will get one to you . Please email the address on my homepage
They reckon this valve will last a lifetime - the "new"  factory plastic one leaks so badly you can blow past the seal. Finally an aftermarket part for those into tuning and performance and those who just want longer life and lower cost who don't want to "modify" their car. This is the dumpvalve equivalent of a cotton gauze airfilter!
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on July 17, 2013, 10:32:57 pm


Email inbound.  Julian is it?
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: BalanceMotorsport on July 17, 2013, 11:37:25 pm


Email inbound.  Julian is it?

yes indeed. 10 years next year, and still just moi doing everything (looks for headbanging smiley)
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: galaxie500 on July 17, 2013, 11:44:03 pm
Is there any indication of price for the valve?
I'd be very interested to try one out. I've recently changed my DV from the rubber diaphragm variety to the newer 'G' and
believe throttle response has become less crisp with the new valve. Perhaps this new addition is the long term answer.
Look forward to seeing a review at least.
PR
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: BalanceMotorsport on July 18, 2013, 05:09:03 pm
Hi
yes £97.80 inc - £104.99 delivered.
http://www.balancemotorsport.co.uk/products.asp?recnumber=133090
thanks
Julian
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: sanj on July 18, 2013, 05:23:54 pm
Is it the same for the Edition30?
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: MC71 on July 18, 2013, 05:31:29 pm
Interesting.  :popcornsoda:
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: Baz300 on July 19, 2013, 07:02:23 pm
£105 and you still have to use half of your original divertor valve and assemble it yourself :laugh:
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: galaxie500 on July 19, 2013, 08:32:25 pm
Seems a little dear..... :confused:
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: RENNTAG on July 19, 2013, 08:52:59 pm
MMMM thin I would be interested in this. I think my revision D is rubbish. Am I correct in thinking the revision D cracks so you end up with the same problem as the diaphragm splitting?
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: bennibGTI07 on July 19, 2013, 11:12:54 pm
Hi. The boost seems to have dropped on my GTI. I had the diverter valve checked at a dealer and he said it was fine. However he also said that they had never seen a problem with these valves and that it was just forum hysteria. I'm guessing he was talking crap. Does anyone have any other suggestions as to why the power is down?
Cheers

It is certainly not forum hysteria! The OE Diaphragm valve splits after a very short lifecycle. The replacement plastic valve doesn't split but by design even when new, leaks boost. Luckily there is a now a solution to this problem from GFB. They have just released (as of last night I was the first uk dealer briefed on this new product) a patented replacement valve that keeps all the advantages of  solenoid operation but will last indefinitely and hold as much boost as you throw at it.

I'm hoping someone would like to try one of these valves free of charge and report on the outcome?


At the risk of having this post removed here is a link to a page with more information on the new valve.

http://www.balancemotorsport.co.uk/main.asp?sitepages=GFBPlusVAGTSIFSI

thanks
Julian

If still need testers il try otherwise I need tomdomsomething about mine
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: BalanceMotorsport on July 23, 2013, 07:46:43 am
Is it the same for the Edition30?

yes all TFSI and FSI 2.0 use the same design. I think it's excellent value for money as every other solution costs more and delivers less. There has been a lot of design over many years and tooling to bring this to market and I think the price point is less than any regular piston type valve. When you buy the new valve from  VW you get the solenoid as well but seeing as this doesn't wear it seems rather wasteful.

Dyno reports are showing more torque across the rev range - if this is taken into account it seems like even better value. After all it's only about the same as one tank of petrol.  :driver:
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: MattPoss on July 23, 2013, 09:32:25 am
I could be interested aswell depending on feedback, I'm having boost issues at the minute and this could be one factor contributing to it

Any chance of a group buy on them?!

Matt
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: rich83 on July 23, 2013, 08:58:16 pm
More torque.... i just dont believe this ONE bit!

Send me one Julian.. and ill take my car on a RR at my cost and get some conclusive evidence. (mikes car will be sat at AKS for the next 6 months...... oh wait, someone made that joke already? )
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on July 23, 2013, 09:30:28 pm

Driven Cadwell Park, Oulton Park & 3k miles on the road since collecting my car in March / April. 
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: rich83 on July 23, 2013, 09:30:59 pm

Driven Cadwell Park, Oulton Park & 3k miles on the road since collecting my car in March / April. 

 :love:
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: BalanceMotorsport on July 24, 2013, 01:58:39 pm
More torque.... i just dont believe this ONE bit!

Send me one Julian.. and ill take my car on a RR at my cost and get some conclusive evidence. (mikes car will be sat at AKS for the next 6 months...... oh wait, someone made that joke already? )


thanks for the feedback. Clearly if compared a valve that isn't leaking it's unlikely  to make more torque. The OE diaphragm valve if not split was probably not what was used as a comparison (i don't have the results yet from this German RR test). The plastic valve though does leak all the time so clearly replacing it with one that doesn't is going to yield more torque...
I'm sorry but it was first come first served and Mike got in their first. At present I am not sure there will be group buys as they are already struggling to get production to meet the initial orders placed by dealers and distributors. I am hoping to get my stock soon. I know the valve for Mike is here this week but I am not sure about stock yet still possibly 2 weeks away. I am taking advance orders though.
thanks again
Julian
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on July 24, 2013, 03:10:18 pm

I'll endeavour to RR. Or at least log the results.  Then test at Cadwell or blyton park
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: BalanceMotorsport on July 24, 2013, 04:46:05 pm
there may not be any outright gain but it might spool a bit quicker. Will be interesting to see the comparison.
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: rich83 on July 24, 2013, 04:49:45 pm
I just dont see how that can be the case..... I will be (as always) sceptical until facts are presented.
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: BalanceMotorsport on July 25, 2013, 08:53:54 am
if the DV releases boost faster than a factory valve under a closed throttle and then seals more efficiently and faster,  then peak boost can be returned more quickly through the gears - something a WOT pull in one gear on RR won't demonstrate but which can certainly be felt.
e.g this is how their TMS valve works and this image compares the TMS valve to factory valve on a 200SX
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgfb.com.au%2Fimages%2Fstories%2Ftms-respons%2Ftms-respons-image-2.jpg&hash=e0f01cf533f64ef0619fc64f06900a4df015eae4)

The DV+ wont make the solenoid move any quicker but the seal is more effective than any of the OE valves
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: Scottymon on July 25, 2013, 09:44:59 am
Shame about the price point, if it was closer to the existing cost of a DV these would sell very well.

I made the same amount of boost on the Rev D as the Rev G... g replaced d.
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: rich83 on July 25, 2013, 10:25:58 am
if the DV releases boost faster than a factory valve under a closed throttle and then seals more efficiently and faster,  then peak boost can be returned more quickly through the gears - something a WOT pull in one gear on RR won't demonstrate but which can certainly be felt.
e.g this is how their TMS valve works and this image compares the TMS valve to factory valve on a 200SX
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgfb.com.au%2Fimages%2Fstories%2Ftms-respons%2Ftms-respons-image-2.jpg&hash=e0f01cf533f64ef0619fc64f06900a4df015eae4)

But the DV+ wont make it operate any quicker..... as the actuator/solenoid in the DV is not being altered. It may seal better yes....
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: cloggie on July 25, 2013, 07:02:21 pm
Long time lurker here. I have now got the GFB DV+ as the guys from GFB were at the shop when I was there
I got it fitted at JD Engineering in the Netherlands. The rolling road comparison showed a marginal increase in torque of a few N/m.

What is more important to me is reducing leakage. I had the latest plastic piston type valve in my car. They fitted my valve to a alloy block they had made up to check valve leakage. I wasn't aware that it leaked so much. Taking the piston apart I suppose I should have known. The plastic 'sealing ring' seems to have at least a mm tolerance. The guy from JD engineering said it was like having a 6mm hole in the intercooler.

So while power might be marginal (but measurable) what was more important to me was leak reduction which will reduce turbo rotational speed and therefore reduce heat.

Well, put it this way, if you had a small intercooler leak, you would fix it. So why not fix the diverter valve leak? The GFB parts has life long warranty, so it was a no-brainer for me...
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: MC71 on July 25, 2013, 07:09:33 pm
^^^^ Very good write up and description of the DV+ plus points.  :happy2:

(although it does sound like you work for them  :laugh:)
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on July 25, 2013, 07:20:17 pm

Thanks for sharing your findings.

I would trust JD, they have some mega performance engineering under their belt!  The guys responsible for the twin charged blue Mk4?
Title: Re:
Post by: vRS Carl on July 25, 2013, 08:20:38 pm
Sold here too.

http://www.amdtuning.com/news.read.cfm?articleid=3201

However I still think it's in the realms of plasma coils and astronomically expensive especially when you need to strip your existing DV to fit this. I didn't pay too much more for a full DV relocation kit!

I'm happy to be proved wrong about it. But I could replace my existing DV twice for one of those and probably more if I was to buy the diaphragm type.

I wonder if it overcomes the problem that the forge one suffered in needing a service to stop it sticking open after a while.
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on July 25, 2013, 08:29:40 pm

I never had any dramas with my Forge one.  I'm back on a G version at the moment.  Sold my forge to try the forge  super size but but car didn't agree with the supersize valve at all

I plan to fit the valve upgrade at blyton park to do a before & after
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: Scottymon on July 25, 2013, 08:34:12 pm

I never had any dramas with my Forge one.  I'm back on a G version at the moment.  Sold my forge to try the forge  super size but but car didn't agree with the supersize valve at all

I plan to fit the valve upgrade at blyton park to do a before & after

Real world test... be good to hear your thoughts on it.  :happy2: I seem to have a fair few DV's laying about the place, so stripping one to use with this kit isn't a prob.
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on July 25, 2013, 08:36:59 pm

Lee Maylon (Silver Cupra K1) has tried one from Amd.

"They did a RR before and after fitting, but won't tell me results til I've fed back to them. He said the results were good :P
Drive home was busy but I had a few blasts. Noticeable improvements in throttle response, I think it improves the reaction of my linear throttle.
Good quality kit too.
Not sure if there is more power but it feels like it pulls stronger to the redline."
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: vRS Carl on July 25, 2013, 08:49:22 pm
Just to clear something up. The DV's go, in order

Diaphragm Type

06F 145 710 A > B > C >G

They then switched to the piston type which was a replacement for all diaphragm types (It came after G Rev diaphragm type).

06H 145 710 D

They have a new piston type which is fitted to the TSi engines. The part no. for which is 06H 145 710 C. This has the outer cone from the D version removed. No idea why as any other revision fits the IHI Turbo on the TSi.

The C Version is on the left

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fbb371%2Fs3kel%2F9eb86f12.jpg&hash=22c0a6f1dc0153c6b3f520dda0be1d6decf40712)

All 3 side by side

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg580.imageshack.us%2Fimg580%2F3264%2Fimg0660ur.jpg&hash=4f948bfa2dbd5a51cb0735be53a3aea3fb60b19d)

You could have 3 Rev G DV's for the price of this new fancy DV+. You might as well just use either one of these for it. No worries about any boost then and they are about £15. But i wouldn't recommend it  :laugh:

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.atpturbo.com%2Fmm5%2Fgraphics%2F00000001%2FCatalog%2520Images%2FVehicle%2520Specific%2FATP-VVW-172_450-1.jpg&hash=ed088409ab88a5197ed4df9476390e59e736aba4)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.atpturbo.com%2Fmm5%2Fgraphics%2F00000001%2FCatalog%2520Images%2FVehicle%2520Specific%2FATP-C30-010_450.jpg&hash=c5355b974d97079d528ff4a7ba9c30205a44efb7)
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: BalanceMotorsport on August 01, 2013, 08:19:38 am
Just to clear something up. The DV's go, in order

Diaphragm Type

06F 145 710 A > B > C >G

They then switched to the piston type which was a replacement for all diaphragm types (It came after G Rev diaphragm type).

06H 145 710 D

They have a new piston type which is fitted to the TSi engines. The part no. for which is 06H 145 710 C. This has the outer cone from the D version removed. No idea why as any other revision fits the IHI Turbo on the TSi.

The C Version is on the left

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fbb371%2Fs3kel%2F9eb86f12.jpg&hash=22c0a6f1dc0153c6b3f520dda0be1d6decf40712)

All 3 side by side

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg580.imageshack.us%2Fimg580%2F3264%2Fimg0660ur.jpg&hash=4f948bfa2dbd5a51cb0735be53a3aea3fb60b19d)

You could have 3 Rev G DV's for the price of this new fancy DV+. You might as well just use either one of these for it. No worries about any boost then and they are about £15. But i wouldn't recommend it  :laugh:

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.atpturbo.com%2Fmm5%2Fgraphics%2F00000001%2FCatalog%2520Images%2FVehicle%2520Specific%2FATP-VVW-172_450-1.jpg&hash=ed088409ab88a5197ed4df9476390e59e736aba4)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.atpturbo.com%2Fmm5%2Fgraphics%2F00000001%2FCatalog%2520Images%2FVehicle%2520Specific%2FATP-C30-010_450.jpg&hash=c5355b974d97079d528ff4a7ba9c30205a44efb7)

so if you go into a VW dealer they will supply a piston type but the diaphragm type is still available? One thing is for sure with all these revisions they know there is a weakness. What is the aluminiun ATP product at the bottom of the post? I suppose the key thing is in time the diaphragm type will split and leak and you may not realise for some time whereas the DV+ is a fit and forget part. Unless you just put the diaphragm type in as a service item to change with your airfilter and oil for example. Then many of course fit cotton gauze type air filters at 10 times the price of OE paper for the same reasons. Better performance, longer life.
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: rich83 on August 01, 2013, 08:36:49 am
I've had my rev G. On for about 2 years now running about 1.3bar. No issues what so ever

It's not a service item than needs replacing every 10k. It just something that needs checking once in a while.


Any feedback from mike yet?
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on August 01, 2013, 10:29:11 am
I've had my rev G. On for about 2 years now running about 1.3bar. No issues what so ever

It's not a service item than needs replacing every 10k. It just something that needs checking once in a while.


Any feedback from mike yet?

Been chasing my tail with a steering electronics fault. Think I've gotten to the bottom of it.  Just need to pick up some different MFSW buttons tonight.

My car boosts quite hard with no noticeable Ill effects on my RevG but am keen to see if there's a noticeable difference
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: rich83 on August 01, 2013, 10:55:35 am
What was the Elec fault mike?  :sick:
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on August 01, 2013, 11:00:13 am

Horn & MF buttons packed in.

Tried New buttons, new loom, CH controller, new slip ring.

The new buttons I tried turned out to be faulty  :fighting:

Put some different buttons in last night, got my horn & buttons back....

However, lost access to my menus on MFD  :grin:
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: rich83 on August 01, 2013, 11:02:52 am
If its not one thing.....  :laugh:
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: BalanceMotorsport on August 06, 2013, 06:42:40 pm
I've had my rev G. On for about 2 years now running about 1.3bar. No issues what so ever

It's not a service item than needs replacing every 10k. It just something that needs checking once in a while.


Any feedback from mike yet?

Hi Rich
I think you want one of these but don't want to buy one. The man from GFB said he'll give you one to trial
For everyone else if we can sell 5 then I can offer 5% off - I expect I can also save on shipping - just need to get a quote from the post office - special delivery is £8 but signed for will be about £6
For 10 or more then we can do 10% off the the price
cheers

Julian
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on August 07, 2013, 08:26:36 am
If its not one thing.....  :laugh:

Don't I know it!  :sick:
Title: Re: Lack of boost
Post by: rich83 on August 10, 2013, 08:19:56 am
I've had my rev G. On for about 2 years now running about 1.3bar. No issues what so ever

It's not a service item than needs replacing every 10k. It just something that needs checking once in a while.


Any feedback from mike yet?

Hi Rich
I think you want one of these but don't want to buy one. The man from GFB said he'll give you one to trial
For everyone else if we can sell 5 then I can offer 5% off - I expect I can also save on shipping - just need to get a quote from the post office - special delivery is £8 but signed for will be about £6
For 10 or more then we can do 10% off the the price
cheers

Julian

Sounds good to me. Who do I contact?