MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: andybon on August 21, 2013, 08:20:15 am
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I've had this problem since I got the car and no mater what I do, It will not go away!
Here is a video of the problem.
Basically when it has been left stood for either the day on the works car park, Or overnight this is how it starts from cold.
So far I have replaced
- Fuel Filter, oil filter, air filter
- New battery with the correct cold cranking amps (Bosch silver one)
- Fuel/coolant temp sensors
- Serviced using correct oil grade/type(Castrol edge 5/30 fully synthetic)
- New timing belt and water pump with the timing checked using the pins and VCDS
- New starter motor
- Charge cooler pipe
- EGR valve and EGR system clean out
- New glow plugs (Replaced with BOSCH items)
Its driving me mad at the minute! Seems i'm throwing good money after bad and nothing is working!
Has anyone had a similar problem and if so what cured it?
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Is it not the injector loom that needs replacing to sort this?
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Just out of curiosity does it kick blue smoke out when initially started. If my car is stood it can occasionally present to a lesser degree a similar sort of start up with a puff of blue smoke very briefly. I've come to the conclusion mine could be valve stems (If its used for the rest of the day no smoke at all). Ive also found my car prefers to run on BP ultimate and starts and runs so much better using that over anything else including Shell V power.
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There is a slight puff of smoke but nothing bad, Plus it doesn't use any oil at all which sort of puts valve stem seals out of the question.
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Does it use water?
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Doesn't use any water at all, Coolant was changed with the timing belt and water pump and it still looks clean.
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PCV ... Injectors...
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pcv?
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I only say that because I've recently upgraded the pcv on an old freelander, was blocked and shooting oil back through the intake/egr bit of a mess. It had terrible cold start problems... Now its replaced and all cleaned up, it starts every time first time... And runs a lot better.
Does the VAG TDI not have a PCV?
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Also a lot of the freebies blank their EGR completely... For better economy and running...
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I had this problem and it was faulty glow plugs
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glowplugs or ignition timing imo...although unlikely to be glowplugs as they arent required as much as way back with more simple diesel engines..
pump timing can be checked on vcds...block 44 is i remember correctly
:happy2:
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Could be the fuel pump
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I've been thinking the timing, What should I be looking for on VCDS, Just need to find somewhere local who doesn't cost a bomb to do it, Spent way too much these last few weeks!
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Where abouts are you
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Oh St. Helens too far for me
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sounds like the timing is out
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Btw I thought the oil was supposed to be 5w40 for diesel -not that it will have anything to do with the problem though
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There's a couple of peeps near you in Lancashire on the vcds register
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Will have a look, Where do i find this register?
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I have vcds, I'm near Preston and have bkd engine too.
Jas
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There's a lad on TDI sport forum had cold start issues and thinks it was related to injectors not seated correctly or not setup correctly? That was the 170 bmn engine though.
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http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,120.0.html
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There's a lad on TDI sport forum had cold start issues and thinks it was related to injectors not seated correctly or not setup correctly? That was the 170 bmn engine though.
Jamie Kilner his name is facebook him
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Update.
Still got this problem, Have replaced the injector loom, had the timing checked and had it plugged into a computer which brought back nothing.
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Have you checked all your fuel lines sounds like there is air in the system to me and the fuel drains back to the tank. Worth checking the seal on the fuel filter and all the clamps on the fuel hoses.
Ps I use caastrol edge 5 30w oil as it say in the manual.
Dan
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I've had this or very similar and it was an air leak on the fuel side.
First start in the morning just as the video, after that perfect!
To find it I put a length of clear pipe in to see the issue - cure fuel filter housing - faulty none return valve.
The fuel filter housings has the part number on it (more than one type fitted) which is why there is more than one filter.
So if your going to try a second hand one look at your number.
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Would it be best to try a new o ring on the fuel filter housing?
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Yes,There's a video on YouTube which shows you one of the filter housings in question (if I remember correctly the unit with the olyimpic seal)!
The job is the same will check if the seal is sold separately and come back with the number!
Laptop flat battery Problem so no part number (for the seal only if any) but he's the link:-
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rE0tSZup0kM
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The filter in mine doesn't have the olympic style seal, It only has a single inlet. mine is similar to this one on the right.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthumbs4.ebaystatic.com%2Fd%2Fl225%2Fm%2FmmYkNUN2S2fvD71Rm4xW4EQ.jpg&hash=a09eb768a88808d4d1b0c2e4ed55bace1306d0e0)
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Your's is the easier of the two.
Remove the T25 bolts - "don't disconnect any pipes" - separate from the filter (to allow seal change)!
Notice how much fuel is in the housing (this is what empties) if that housing your fitting the seal too has a defective valve!
When refitting tighten each bolt evenly a "bit at a time and opposite position".
If the filter is black you have a problem with oil passing on the tandem pump.
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Just checked the fuel filter and this was how much fuel was in when i opened it up.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.corsasport.co.uk%2Fcarimages%2F10265%2FIMAG0457.jpg&hash=c428651b361cc15e764f1b5bdc275e2dcb8d8c2e)
And this was the colour of the filter, Only a few months old. Seemed to have oil in it when i ran my finger in it
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.corsasport.co.uk%2Fcarimages%2F10265%2FIMAG0458.jpg&hash=01f728dc27e9387ed988f2a05206869417a0bd46)
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Level should of been above the filter by 15 mm ish when put in the housing.
How many miles since the change not time is the issue?
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The pic showing the level was took just as I lifted the lid off.
Probably looking at around 1500 miles since it was last changed.
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Your's is the easier of the two.
Notice how much fuel is in the housing (this is what empties) if that housing your fitting the seal too has a defective valve!
Which valve could be defective?
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Injector seals...
The blackening of the fuel filter is gases blowing back into the fuel and clogging the filter.
Had same problem on my 1.9pd
Once the injectors were replaced after cleaning, new seals and torqued down, its been flawless for the last 35k
Injector specialist told me it was bad fuel,apparently supermarket fuel is good for causing this.
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I had a similar problem, I had a dti test done basically my injectors set up and they were way it, it helped a lot but its still a bit lumpy on start up
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The pic showing the level was took just as I lifted the lid off.
Probably looking at around 1500 miles since it was last changed.
Your photos show:-
The level you would expect if everything is working correctly so if the vehicle hasn't been started there's nothing wrong with the housing and valves!
However, the picture of the filter shows a rather black filter for so few miles!
This black indicates the oil seal behind the tandem pump is failing which contaminates the fuel lift pump in the tank - next stage is to confirm the condition of the pump in the tank by removing the rear seat to access the pump.
Just read Apples12 post and as he says, that is common but google both for further comments.
But as I originally said the fuel housing was my problem!
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Your's is the easier of the two.
Notice how much fuel is in the housing (this is what empties) if that housing your fitting the seal too has a defective valve!
Which valve could be defective?
The fuel filter head the part with the pipework attached as show in the photos!
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So the next place to look is the fuel pump in the tank and check for oil there too?
I take it the seal in question is the one between the actual pump and the engine block, if so are these cheap to buy/easyish to replace by myself or is it a case of going tho a garage/dealer to get it done?
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Yes, if that was the filter housing level from cold (as per the photo)!
However, that wouldn't normally just give one fault, if the tank pump is contaminated, you would get other symptoms - poor idle, light misfire etc.
Air in the system or lazy pump would and does give your fault, but it's more like a brown sludge on the filter than just blackening of the filter.
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That level was after been sat for 3 hours from last been tried (started then stopped when it started correctly)
So it's possibly a new pump that's needed?
Really am loosing faith with the car, been tempted to just trade it in all day and be done with it :(
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It's not easy when you lose faith in your motor but more testes are needed before parting with any money!
Tomorrow, before starting cycle the ignition key three times to position 2 counting to five then on the four go start the vehicle and see if that improves it - (it gives the tank pump more time and chances to purge air if that's the issue)!
So until tomorrow! :happy2:
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I will give that a go then go from there! Hopefully I will get to the bottom of it somehow!
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When you changed the seal today was there any water droplets or muck in the bottom of the filter housing?
Also when you had the timing checked with VCDS did they do a full scan or have you got access to VCDS Tool?
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There wasn't any water in there, just full of diesel.
When it had it's scan they had it for 2 days, they scanned it when it was hot, then again when it was cold after it did it's juddering.
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Tried it this morning with putting the ignition on and off a few times then starting it, still did it. Just tried it again but did it twice the amount of times and it was still the same.
Booked it in to a specialist at the weekend, just to see what they can find.
I ain't going to let this German win the war!
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My next move would be to clamp the return line on the filter housing to increase the system pressure, to eliminate the pump in the boot.
It's always difficult when your not seeing the whole picture,but for what it's worth the pumps are real common failure item!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUDI-A3-1-9TDI-MEYLE-FUEL-PUMP-FEED-UNIT-1K0919050J-1K0919050G-1K0919050AB-/251359379661?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3a862fc0cd
TPS price £ 175.69 full retail inc vat!
Then a compression test at the same time listening for an leakage on the injector seals!
So I will look forward to your next post on the repair!
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Just got it back, it's rebooked in for a fortnights time (only time I can get it too them due to work) they suspect the vacuum pump and the Egr valve may have something to do with the fault, as these where both reading incorrectly on a scan. They replaced the fuel filter and checked that and they said they couldnt see a problem with that.
Just need to wait and see if the faults they found can sort it out.
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Disappointed to see your repairer couldn't find the fault - was their scan with VCDS?
The two items showing fault codes are easy to check if you have the tools - this is what happens when the inlet manifold flap/ ERG valve fail.
http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-sportback-8p-chassis/58985-help-p3103-v157-motor-intake-manifold-flap-egr-valve-how-do-i-solve-4.html
For my money the faults shown would only cause it to run rough.
Would be checking the supply to the tank fuel pump or replacing the pump!
This chap is having similar problems
http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/278438-octavia-20-tdi-16v-diesel-2006-fuel-starvation-or-worse-128000-miles/
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one thing in the skoda post that intrests me is that he fuelled up at tesco. Thats the only place that I have filled up at since I got the car. Think I may try a simple task of trying another fuel station and go from there.
He scanned it with VCDS as it is a VW specialist I took it to, The only place I trust with my car.
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I run my 140 BKD on shell nitro, have no faults on VCDS but get hesitation on starting from cold, its as though the revs chug upto normal rpm and kick some blue smoke out of the exhaust. After thats its fine all day, no blue smoke, no start up hesitation until its started from cold again.
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one thing in the skoda post that intrests me is that he fuelled up at tesco. Thats the only place that I have filled up at since I got the car. Think I may try a simple task of trying another fuel station and go from there.
He scanned it with VCDS as it is a VW specialist I took it to, The only place I trust with my car.
You'll of used that tank of fuel since your problem started?
Do a bit digging you'll see that VW sell plenty pumps and associated relays which cause a range of problems before total failure.
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Ive used tanks and tanks of the stuff!
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What would prove the point that it's fuel issue is to spray easy start(small quantity)in the air filter housings when the vehicle is clay cold when someone goes through the normal starting procedure.
It's not a good practice and shouldn't be over used but would confirm its fuel supply at starting.
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_221705_langId_-1_categoryId_255221
Up to you!
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Think I will give it a go, After all it could be a relatively simple problem with a simple fix!
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Update.
Started to use non-supermarket fuel which improved it a little. Had it back in the garage and they diagnosed the fuel pump in the tank. Will be going in on monday to be replaced and see how that goes.
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hope this sorts the issue out once and for all
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Touch wood it does, if not I've got another car in the pipeline, won't be staying with vw, be moving over to the blue oval!
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Fuel pump seems to have sorted it, just got a slight hesitation on it from cold, but it doesn't shake rattle and bang!
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Pleased you've got it sorted :happy2:
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Spoke too soon. Still doing it :sick:
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Did you managed to get this sorted ?
Have you tried to change seal on tandem pump ?
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Yeah all sorted. Was the pump in the fuel tank. Replaced that along with the filter and all is well.
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glad to see you got it sorted