MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: RetroRaz on September 07, 2013, 11:06:27 pm

Title: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: RetroRaz on September 07, 2013, 11:06:27 pm
Hi everyone, at the moment I have a 1.9 sport tdi 105bhp. Looking at something a bit more powerful.

Are there any common issues with the 140 and 170 gt sport models?

What power gains would I expect with a remap?

I know with my current model there are turbo problems

would get a gti but will miss the economy.

Any suggestions fellas?
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: Andy on September 07, 2013, 11:12:14 pm
if you a doing short journeys 140 doing journeys 170
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: RetroRaz on September 07, 2013, 11:15:47 pm
I'm starting a new job in a week and will have to use the train :(

So just using the car to go gym in evenings and weekend locally. And Once or twice a month drive from London to Nottingham . Confused now what to do lol.
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: sub39h on September 07, 2013, 11:28:01 pm
Silly question, but if that's all you need the car for why bother switching at all? Maybe get an EGR delete and remap?
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: RetroRaz on September 07, 2013, 11:50:01 pm
Silly question, but if that's all you need the car for why bother switching at all? Maybe get an EGR delete and remap?

Not a silly question mate :) , my car feels really sluggish, could remap it but just worried about the turbo as most of the 105 version have problems with them and getting bored of having a blue car now. Had too many blues lol .

Do you know if the 140 / 170 have a stronger turbo then the 105?
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: Andy on September 07, 2013, 11:54:19 pm
the early 140 had poor turbos and the 170 suffer from injector and dpf.If you are doing short trips the 170 will suffer from the dpf blocking up
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: dodds-gttdi on September 08, 2013, 12:25:31 am
You'll get the most gains out of a 140 tdi as well as having lower insurance and tax. The 140 remaps to 180-190 and is very torquey.

I have moved from the 140 (remapped to 182) to a 170 as I don't plan on doing as much tuning to this car.
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: sub39h on September 08, 2013, 12:40:08 am
early 140s also suffer with porous cylinder heads and problems with their starter motor. for cylinder heads you want cars with the C revision. the B revision is less likely to fail but it is not unheard of.

the later 170 PD engines had problems with injector looms causing injectors to fail. should be a warranty recall. this does not affect the CR engines (MY08 onwards i believe)
Title: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: skard on September 08, 2013, 07:20:58 am
Get the 105 mapped, it transforms it. We have it in an Altea.

The DMF failing and turbo wooing were common before mapping, same as my old 140.
Only £350 now for a Sachs clutch kit if needed.

Map it and see, not worth the extra getting another PD diesel, or even changing car.
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: Scottymon on September 08, 2013, 07:50:19 am
Why not a GTI?
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: AndrewJB on September 08, 2013, 07:59:01 am
You'll get the most gains out of a 140 tdi as well

Not really a true statement

Stage2 DPF Delete is a real 215bhp on a PD170, PD140 is Hybrid to get above 220bhp IIRC

Both can go too 300bhp+ with a GTB turbo, Injectors and some engine work
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: Nodz on September 08, 2013, 08:34:55 am
Me and the other half are looking at replacing here fiesta with a Rocco Tdi. Are the problems being raised here the same for 140 blue motion and the 170?

She will be doing 15 mile each way to work but then driving around in the community in that area so will be averaging 40 miles but some trips could be as short as a mile and oter about 5mile. I would like the 170 as its got more poke but the DPF issues put me off, especially with the shorter journeys.

Also insurance is not an issue with the 170 as it works out cheaper than the 140BM just the tax is better on the 140.

Sorry for hi jacking your thread but as its essentially the same engines thought there would be some comparisons
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: AndrewJB on September 08, 2013, 09:02:32 am
Correct me if i am wrong but the Rocco never came with a PD engine

So they will be CR140 and CR170, different engines not a problematic
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: doylebros on September 08, 2013, 09:03:35 am
Why not a GTI?

Doing less miles, more reason for a petrol - GTI ticks most boxes for most people!
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: Nodz on September 08, 2013, 09:23:57 am
Correct me if i am wrong but the Rocco never came with a PD engine

So they will be CR140 and CR170, different engines not a problematic

Cool, so just got to decide between mpg or power essentially
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: AndrewJB on September 08, 2013, 09:30:23 am
Both the CR140 and CR170 are good on MPG, not sure on the average difference between the two. If it was me i would go CR170 with DSG and then get it Stage2 DPF Delete by REVO
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: GTI5 on September 08, 2013, 09:56:24 am
Why not a GTI?

Doing less miles, more reason for a petrol - GTI ticks most boxes for most people!

Indeed.

OP - What's your mileage? If you commute by train to work I guess it won't be massive in which the case any saving by choosing a Diesel will be minimal.

Don't see the point of a 2.0l TDI to go to the local gym and shops.
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: prp74 on September 08, 2013, 01:48:35 pm
I would defo recommend changing to the GTI. It will put a smile on your face every time.  :happy2:
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: dodds-gttdi on September 08, 2013, 01:58:31 pm
You'll get the most gains out of a 140 tdi as well

Not really a true statement

Stage2 DPF Delete is a real 215bhp on a PD170, PD140 is Hybrid to get above 220bhp IIRC

Both can go too 300bhp+ with a GTB turbo, Injectors and some engine work

A remap and exhaust will bring the 140 PD up to 190 bhp (35% increase).

Remap and exhaust on the 170 PD will give you 210-220bhp (23-29% increase).

Fairly simple maths. Plus torque increase will also be greater on the 140. :confused:
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: AndrewJB on September 08, 2013, 02:18:45 pm
You'll get the most gains out of a 140 tdi as well

Not really a true statement

Stage2 DPF Delete is a real 215bhp on a PD170, PD140 is Hybrid to get above 220bhp IIRC

Both can go too 300bhp+ with a GTB turbo, Injectors and some engine work

A remap and exhaust will bring the 140 PD up to 190 bhp (35% increase).

Remap and exhaust on the 170 PD will give you 210-220bhp (23-29% increase).

Fairly simple maths. Plus torque increase will also be greater on the 140. :confused:

When talking about overall % gained over OEM power then yes the PD140 will be more because it started lower and essentially with a GTB turbo kit the PD140 and PD170 produce similar final numbers

But i wouldn't buy a PD140 just because you can get 6% more overall power from OEM figures over the PD170.

If the buyers overall plan is to tune the car past stage 1 then i would get the PD170 simply because its peak figures will be better. if his plan is just to do Stage1 then i would get the PD140 simply because of the DPF issues on the PD170.


Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: RetroRaz on September 08, 2013, 04:26:46 pm
some really good points here peeps, thanks for the replies,

GTI will double my insurance and plus with my wife on the policy when she passes will increase it even further.

ill probably be doing around 50 miles a week,  

only advantage i see of the 140 is the lower tax and insurance.

if i get the 170 surely an early model wont have the injector problems, and dpf could always be removed with a remap.

someone asked what mileage im on, im on 105k now

Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: AndrewJB on September 08, 2013, 04:34:20 pm
its the other way round the earlier the 170 the more likely to have the bad injectors, i had a 58 which was one of the last and SEAT still replaced mine.

The new injectors also make the DPF worse
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: RetroRaz on September 08, 2013, 04:39:53 pm
its the other way round the earlier the 170 the more likely to have the bad injectors, i had a 58 which was one of the last and SEAT still replaced mine.

The new injectors also make the DPF worse

Thanks,

What is the downside of a 140 then?  Weak turbo?
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: AndrewJB on September 08, 2013, 04:42:09 pm
Weak Turbo (IIRC) and porous head and 30bhp less

On the Leon at least dont know if the MK5 Golf is the same the 140 comes with 288mm brakes where as 170 comes with 312mm brakes aswell
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: Degudodger on September 08, 2013, 05:16:12 pm
I have had both the 140 and 170 GT (currently have the latter) and personally prefer the GT 170 and apart from failed injectors the day after i bought it i've not had many serious issues with it. If you do go for a GT 170 try and get a 2008-2009 CR engine or ensure the injectors have been replaced under warranty.

Regarding the DPF. With your predicted mileage it would be worth having the DPF deleted otherwise it's just going to block.
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: RetroRaz on September 08, 2013, 07:14:55 pm
I have had both the 140 and 170 GT (currently have the latter) and personally prefer the GT 170 and apart from failed injectors the day after i bought it i've not had many serious issues with it. If you do go for a GT 170 try and get a 2008-2009 CR engine or ensure the injectors have been replaced under warranty.

Regarding the DPF. With your predicted mileage it would be worth having the DPF deleted otherwise it's just going to block.

Thanks mate that really helps .

I've still got a few weeks to decide what one to get, right now it seems the 170 and dpf remove.

Just seen matto's video of his car and there's a lot of smoke coming out lol. But I think he mentioned its due to the car over fuelling.
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: GTI5 on September 08, 2013, 07:48:39 pm
some really good points here peeps, thanks for the replies,

GTI will double my insurance and plus with my wife on the policy when she passes will increase it even further.

ill probably be doing around 50 miles a week, 

only advantage i see of the 140 is the lower tax and insurance.

if i get the 170 surely an early model wont have the injector problems, and dpf could always be removed with a remap.

someone asked what mileage im on, im on 105k now and can hear the turbo wooing at low revs.



50 miles a week might give you DPF problems over time, you will probably end up driving around just to finish a regen after repeated short journeys.

A proper DPF delete is going to the cost the same as the extra cost to insure a GTI?
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: Scottymon on September 08, 2013, 08:09:44 pm
If I only drove that much I'd be looking at an Electric Car, zero tax, no visits to the tax pump - shame they look sh!te but the Nissan Leaf (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201308108257315/sort/default/usedcars/fuel-type/electric/maximum-age/up_to_4_years_old/make/nissan/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/page/1/postcode/ll182at/radius/1500/image-id/290562510?logcode=p) is quite nice inside - slam it, 18's, remove the backseats for another half tonne of batteries and instant 300whp :signLOL:

Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: AdeMcG on September 10, 2013, 06:58:40 pm
A GT 170 all the way........


But then,....................... I would say that ......wouldn't I.................... :happy2: http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,70077.0.html

 :innocent: :happy2:
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: Andy on September 10, 2013, 09:37:48 pm
End of the day either cars the 140 OR the 170 have had issues.It all depends if and how far you are going to mod it and what power your after reallly
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: nadlad on September 10, 2013, 09:48:24 pm
170s are wank on juice
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: RetroRaz on September 13, 2013, 03:25:32 pm
So ive had a look at the insurance for a GTI and my renewal came in cheap , so its not a lot to change from a tdi to gti, plus with the mrs n the policy.

Calculated that it would cost me just under £50 to go from nottingham to london and back, whereas before it was around £35 so I can live with that too.

Will sell my tdi soon and go GTI Hunting!
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: Degudodger on September 13, 2013, 08:44:26 pm
170s are wank on juice

I normally get 500 miles to a tank, i have once seen 540 but that was on a long drive from Winchester to Leeds and back.
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: brookesb32 on September 13, 2013, 08:47:54 pm
So ive had a look at the insurance for a GTI and my renewal came in cheap , so its not a lot to change from a tdi to gti, plus with the mrs n the policy.

Calculated that it would cost me just under £50 to go from nottingham to london and back, whereas before it was around £35 so I can live with that too.

Will sell my tdi soon and go GTI Hunting!

Shameless plug - my lovely GTI is for sale  :wink:

http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,72071.0.html

Title: Re: Re: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: RetroRaz on September 13, 2013, 09:05:17 pm
So ive had a look at the insurance for a GTI and my renewal came in cheap , so its not a lot to change from a tdi to gti, plus with the mrs n the policy.

Calculated that it would cost me just under £50 to go from nottingham to london and back, whereas before it was around £35 so I can live with that too.

Will sell my tdi soon and go GTI Hunting!

Shameless plug - my lovely GTI is for sale  :wink:

http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,72071.0.html

Thats perfect spec for me.  need to sell the tdi though first .

Thanks

Sent From My Samsung S3
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: Scottymon on September 13, 2013, 09:07:35 pm
£6,995 :happy2:
Title: Re: Re: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: RetroRaz on September 13, 2013, 09:10:29 pm
£6,995 :happy2:

Hehe just saw the price now in the title.  Price is right.  Just hope I can shift the tdi quick enough.

Sent From My Samsung S3
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: Scottymon on September 13, 2013, 09:13:43 pm
Sometimes: http://www.webuyanycar.com/ can be the right price, if the price to change ain't too bad... at the very least it'll give you an idea of the glass price.
Title: Re: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: RetroRaz on September 13, 2013, 09:22:02 pm
Had a look at webuyanycar, they offerred me a price which is around how much a mk4 tdi would cost lol.

I had a look at what car valuation and its around 5k for private good and 4700 as px good. So not too bad.

Once I get the seats back to standard ill stick it up for sale.

Sent From My Samsung S3
Title: Re: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: brookesb32 on September 14, 2013, 10:06:30 am
Had a look at webuyanycar, they offerred me a price which is around how much a mk4 tdi would cost lol.

I had a look at what car valuation and its around 5k for private good and 4700 as px good. So not too bad.

Once I get the seats back to standard ill stick it up for sale.

Sent From My Samsung S3

We buy any car are a joke, they offered £4,500 for mine  :mad:
Title: Re: GT TDi 140 or 170?
Post by: GTI5 on September 14, 2013, 11:06:07 am
Yeh they offer a semi-sensible web offer then turn up and start taking money off from there.