MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Phil Mcavity on September 03, 2009, 09:55:56 pm
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Has anyone with DSG and have or had stage 1 Bluefin, have a slight delay after gearchange going up the gears under hard accelaration. Under normal its fine but only when pushing on. Is it the Torque limiter cutting back on load on the gearbox, almost like a Pause for a spilt second before she goes really well.
After having it now for a good week or so, she certainly doesnt lack in power, and looking at the data from my data logging trip with Stu on boost, she's pulling over 1.8bar most of the rev range :surprised:.
Ive been watching lots of Youtube vids with people with stage 1/2 etc and all DSG cars dont seem to have this mometary pause after gearchange.
Any one hazzard a guess?
cheers
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Not a bluefin Phil but mine had this a bit with Revo stage one but disappeared when i went stage 2. :smiley:
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Phil, when you said about this the other day i replied and said i didnt know what you were talking about, however the last few days i have been really caining my car and in sport mode when flat out there is a slight pause at the gear change! I think it is something to do with the dsg limiting/pulling back the power in anticipation of the gear change, im sure somebody knows better and can explain, but i have noticed it now... You've cursed me lol
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Yep I am pretty sure your right, it's related to the torque limit of the box and the way it preps the clutches for the gear change.
What you need is a DSG remap now :wink: :grin: :grin:
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1.8 bar? :confused: not on the logs you sent me.
Did you deduct the ambient pressure?
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Yep I am pretty sure your right, it's related to the torque limit of the box and the way it preps the clutches for the gear change.
What you need is a DSG remap now :wink: :grin: :grin:
Did you mention that the dsg remap doesnt give the full benefit with the bluefin because they cant raise the rev limiter or something to that effect?
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Phil, when you said about this the other day i replied and said i didnt know what you were talking about, however the last few days i have been really caining my car and in sport mode when flat out there is a slight pause at the gear change! I think it is something to do with the dsg limiting/pulling back the power in anticipation of the gear change, im sure somebody knows better and can explain, but i have noticed it now... You've cursed me lol
Sorry , didnt mean too curse you!. Glad its not just me. Data logs show that my car is running very good on performance , but this momentary pause is a tad annoying!. So dare i say it , to stage 2 its, downpipe needed!!. FFS more expense!.
Who invented this slippery slope, dam them!! :signLOL:
There goes my smug advantage over manual boys :sad1:
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Lol, you ^^^ beat me to it... :happy2:
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1.8 bar? :confused: not on the logs you sent me.
Did you deduct the ambient pressure?
Ive most proberly read the columes wrong. What does it say Ian...... in english please mate :wink:
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Yep I am pretty sure your right, it's related to the torque limit of the box and the way it preps the clutches for the gear change.
What you need is a DSG remap now :wink: :grin: :grin:
Did you mention that the dsg remap doesnt give the full benefit with the bluefin because they cant raise the rev limiter or something to that effect?
Afraid so :sad1:
But it will still overcome issues like the torque limit, kickdown and forced change up :smiley:
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Cheers :happy2:
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But by putting on stage 2, aernt you then increasing the torque, so wouldnt the fault be worse??
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Lol, you ^^^ beat me to it Hedge... :happy2:
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But by putting on stage 2, aernt you then increasing the torque, so wouldnt the fault be worse??
But it delivers it much more smoothly so the effect is less noticeable.
What you really need is Stage 2+ :wink:
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But by putting on stage 2, aernt you then increasing the torque, so wouldnt the fault be worse??
What you really need is Stage 2+ :wink:
A thankyou given to that one steve :laugh:
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Ive most proberly read the columes wrong. What does it say Ian...... in english please mate :wink:
When they talk about actual and requested bost it is in millibars but you have to deduct the ambient pressure which is usually in the order of 1 bar or 1000 millibars. The ECU will also log the ambient so you can do the math yourself.
At 1.8 bar your K04 would last like a swan vesta. :wink:
Methinks your symtoms are caused because the box doesn't expect the torque. If I change on full throttle at 3-4k the car surges but if I go hunting the redline it is much smoother as there is less torque. My theory anyway.
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My sweet fellow. Thankyou kind sir for explaining.
Good point about the redline theory. No wonder you drive like a man possessed :wink:
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Good point about the redline theory. No wonder you drive like a man possessed :wink:
Nope not me. Just like to make steady progress where possible. :wink:
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Good point about the redline theory. No wonder you drive like a man possessed :wink:
Nope not me. Just like to make steady progress where possible. :wink:
oh of course :chicken:
One thing i have noticed is my average fuel consumption has dropped a few miles per gallon, but im sure to stick my neck out and say its all my fault :drinking:
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1.8 bar , I nearly split my lunch on that quote........... :laugh:
now youve started Phil its never gonna stop :pomppomp:
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Methinks your symtoms are caused because the box doesn't expect the torque. If I change on full throttle at 3-4k the car surges but if I go hunting the redline it is much smoother as there is less torque. My theory anyway.
Yep, agree totally .... I had this with the 'newer' Edition 30 DSG remap and put it down to the massive amount of extra torque this map delivered. It worked fine but was almost like someone with their favourite meal in front of them trying to take too much of a mouthful ... it all goes in but you have a bit of a struggle :laugh:
Everything worked fine but I didn't like the pause it seemingly created - and worried slightly that the gearbox wasn't totally enjoying it's new found freedom .... so went back to the older Superchips DSG remap which has about 350Nm as opposed to the 415 Nm of the newest map. Since going back to the 'older' map I may not have the massive mid range surge but I don't also have that 'pause' you refer to.
Their older map does not 'do away' with the gearbox torque limiter so I, for one, seem to get 5-6 bhp peak less with the older map on their RR .... though that may only be down to the petrol !
I did read somewhere that the box as standard copes well with torque levels up to 400 Nm but can get 'confused' when it sees levels over that ..... don't know how true but it explains the pause whilst it thinks about it ! The same article / thread said the gearbx can take the torque without issue - it is just the mechatronics unit isn't programmed to handle those levels ... thus the confusion / pause as it works it out !
I am sure Superchips wouldn't do something that could harm the car - it just seems a characteristic of the gearbox. I for one prefer the older map as a result .... though do miss that massive surge that surprises other drivers before they can react :evilgrin: That said, what I have is massively different to standard particularly at the top end :smiley:
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THANX EVERYONE :grouphug:
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Ok just wanted to update the progress on my Bluefin stage 1 remap.
Its been on for over 2 weeks and has you have proberly read, i wasnt very pleased on a couple of issues, 1 being that since the remap there was a sort of pause or delay when going up the gears when under throttle. The other complaint was in the rev range between 2400 to just under 3000 rpm, the car would never excellerate smoothly and felt quick lumpy at times.Also the fact my Data logs were not satisfactory with timing issues raised by some people from here.
Anyways this past saturday morning, got up nice and early for a quick quiet blast on the motorway, ideal conditions, blue skys, no traffic, damp air conditions. Ok sat doing 70mph in 6th gear, tried to pass a car in the middle lane under gental throttle, next thing i know the car is stuttering, like a lean sneeze at 2500rpm, rev counter needle is flicking up/down, no sign of engine warning lights, so first thought was get off the motorway soon as, and revert phylis back to stock, fortunatly, bluefin handset in the boot, reload map and codgitate what was wrong.
I couldnt find out from superchips being it was a saturday, as they are closed, so had to run the car for the rest of the weekend back on stock setting. I continued with the car for the rest of saturday/sunday, and car drove absolutley perfectly.
So come monday morning, gave superchips a ring to find out what map was installed on my car with its handset, to find out from their technical team, that a "Manual" map had been supplied and not DSG!!.
So i received my new map after putting the phone down and installed it on here early this morning, and all i can say is WOW!
Not only has the delay or flatspot area in 2-3000 rpm range disapeared, the gearchange on the DSG has returned to its normal, no pause self!!!, the car is running absolutley superbly, and a real joy to drive, totally changed the feel of the car, and she's as smooth as standard, even just with a couple of hours under its belt at this early stage with a new map.
Thanks for superships honesty in their genuine mistake, and if anyones thinking of going Bluefin, then from me, it now gets a huge thumbs up.
:drinking:
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That's great news Phil, I can imagine how pleased you feel. It's so annoying when something just doesn't seem to be working how it should but you can't source the fault or you are being told there is no fault.
Hallelujah moment :happy2:
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:pomppomp: :pomppomp: :happy2:
Glad it's all sorted Steve! :happy2:
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Hallelujah :pomppomp:
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That's great news Phil, I can imagine how pleased you feel. It's so annoying when something just doesn't seem to be working how it should but you can't source the fault or you are being told there is no fault.
Hallelujah moment :happy2:
:pomppomp: :pomppomp: :happy2:
Glad it's all sorted Steve! :happy2:
Hallelujah :pomppomp:
Cheers Guys...
and thanks to all the help from the people that ive been speaking to getting hints from. you can all sleep well :happy2:
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Glad its sorted. :smiley:
But i thought they dont have separate maps for the DSG anymore. :chicken:
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:surprised:
but glad uts fixed :happy2:
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Glad its sorted. :smiley:
But i thought they dont have separate maps for the DSG anymore. :chicken:
acoarding to superchips not the case :smiley:
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Glad its sorted. :smiley:
But i thought they dont have separate maps for the DSG anymore. :chicken:
Not quite sure about that.
I have had something similar in the past and tbh the car was undriveable.
Very sensitive throttle and horrendous mis-fire. I think it is something to do with the throttle position mapping but not sure.
After speaking to them I then got re-sent new maps and all was fine.
So I would have to say my Superchips support experience was top-notch.
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Maybez i am mistaken :ashamed:
but i seem to remember PG saying that after testing his and Naths car the one map now fits all. :smiley:
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Maybez i am mistaken :ashamed:
but i seem to remember PG saying that after testing his and Naths car the one map now fits all. :smiley:
Probably boost, fueling, timing, etc but I think that maybe the throttle positioning would be different. :smiley:
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The Performance difference now makes me think not to bother with the downpipe as the car absolutley flys now, and to save my pennies instead for some decent rubber. 4 new boots (either ps2's or Goodyear F1) .it would be expensive month ahead, car insurance renewel, miltek downpipe and 4 tires at once........... :ashamed:
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glad its sorted fella in time for rolling road day :happy2:
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glad its sorted fella in time for rolling road day :happy2:
hehehe - which one? They seem to be coming up in abundance :signLOL:
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glad its sorted fella in time for rolling road day :happy2:
hehehe - which one? They seem to be coming up in abundance :signLOL:
Cant make SCN's rolling road meet this saturday,as its My Baby daughters 2nd birthday!
Will be at Golfgti.co.uk's rolling road day on Saturday October 3rd at JKM instead. :happy2:
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Glad to see you are happy with the map now Steve and about time you came over to the dark side.. :jumpmove: Even if you did go with the wrong software.. :grin::P :grin:
If you are considering the DP, I still maybe persuaded to let mine go at the right price.. :wink:
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I assume there will be no DSG lag issues with a K03 remap as it won't be getting near 400 torques?
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Is it possible to filter thread on this site so I miss all the remap related ones :laugh:
After getting my RNS510/Bluetooth options sorted, Im sooooo tempted to part with the cash for a remap now.
Only thing really stopping me is ongoing warranty concerns (dealers down my way stick by the rule book!!!) and knowing which map to go with?? I spoke to Matt at VWR a couple of weeks ago and I know they are trying to get dealers to use their tuning packages while still offering VW warranty?
For once I'm gonna bide my time a little I think ....... but its getting so difficult :wink:
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For once I'm gonna bide my time a little I think ....... but its getting so difficult :wink:
Good luck with that one mate.. I lasted a whole week from picking my car up brand new.. But I did have a remap on my last car so knew what was to come.. :grin:
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For once I'm gonna bide my time a little I think ....... but its getting so difficult :wink:
2 and half years before i broke my risk assesment. You will love it.
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Glad to see you are happy with the map now Steve and about time you came over to the dark side.. :jumpmove: Even if you did go with the wrong software.. :grin::P :grin:
If you are considering the DP, I still maybe persuaded to let mine go at the right price.. :wink:
Which one do you have ben?, i know your centre rear section is not the 3" version is it. :happy2:
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Yaaaaaaaay :happy2:
Glad Phlyis is running well again.
You need to get some more logs done now, whilst she's in fine fettle :wink:
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Yaaaaaaaay :happy2:
Glad Phlyis is running well again.
You need to get some more logs done now, whilst she's in fine fettle :wink:
Definitely Steve, send me one to have a look at :happy2:
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Glad to see you are happy with the map now Steve and about time you came over to the dark side.. :jumpmove: Even if you did go with the wrong software.. :grin::P :grin:
If you are considering the DP, I still maybe persuaded to let mine go at the right price.. :wink:
Which one do you have ben?, i know your centre rear section is not the 3" version is it. :happy2:
No mate it's the 2.75" one, but as you know never did the car any harm at all.. :wink:
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Glad to see you are happy with the map now Steve and about time you came over to the dark side.. :jumpmove: Even if you did go with the wrong software.. :grin::P :grin:
If you are considering the DP, I still maybe persuaded to let mine go at the right price.. :wink:
Which one do you have ben?, i know your centre rear section is not the 3" version is it. :happy2:
No mate it's the 2.75" one, but as you know never did the car any harm at all.. :wink:
Same as mine. I didn't know there was a 3" option for a dp & cat on the Ed 30. :confused:
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i was under the impression, 2.75 was origonally Std GTi, whereas the Ed30 was 3". :confused:
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GTI
http://www.millteksport.co.uk/exhaust.products.cfm?variantid=159
Ed30
http://www.millteksport.co.uk/exhaust.products.cfm?variantid=275
I'll get me coat. :ashamed:
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GTI
http://www.millteksport.co.uk/exhaust.products.cfm?variantid=159
Ed30
http://www.millteksport.co.uk/exhaust.products.cfm?variantid=275
I'll get me coat. :ashamed:
Nice one Ian, so what size is yours Ben!!. if 2.75 is the norm for the Ed?
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May be completely wrong but -
The gti/ed30 exhaust is 2.5inch, milltek gti dp and cat is 2.75 and the milltek ed30 dp and cat is 3in...
Think thats right :rolleye:
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May be completely wrong but -
The gti/ed30 exhaust is 2.5inch, milltek gti dp and cat is 2.75 and the milltek ed30 dp and cat is 3in...
Think thats right :rolleye:
That was my 1st thought
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May be completely wrong but -
The gti/ed30 exhaust is 2.5inch, milltek gti dp and cat is 2.75 and the milltek ed30 dp and cat is 3in...
Think thats right :rolleye:
Spot on mate..
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Hi Phil...
Hows the car going.. im in two minds at the moment which remap to go for.. revo or bluefin?
Does the revo map cause the slight delay with dsg?
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My slight delay i was talking about was because superchips gave me the wrong map (manual one as against the DSG type) I now have no delay on gearchanges on stage 1 bluefin.
Revo i would guess will be the same. Revo is more agressive then bluefin, but i find the bluefin setup spot on now. Cant reccomend it enuff :happy2:
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Thanks for that phil.. Now in 2 minds wether to go bluefin or revo.. Added advantage with bluefin is that u get the unit.. Does this allow u to revert back to the original vw stock map or is it superchips own version of stock?
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Its original VW stock. :smiley:
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And it has its own Data log facility :wink:. very handy............. if you know how to use it :confused:
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....and code reader if you know how to use it. :wink:
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The fact it reverts to your actual VW map as opposed to say Revo or APR's "version" was what sold it for me. Once back to standard it is your very own map thats gone back on .... :smiley: