MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Crispo on October 07, 2013, 01:51:57 pm
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Looking at my first set of winter tyres and looking for recommendations from people who use them. Done some searching on here and other forums and I'm looking at the Vredestein Wintrac xtreme. A lot of people seem to recommend these. I'm just slightly confused by the Wet Grip rating of 'E' as I hear people say the braking performance of winter tyres in the wet are much better than summer tyres. I know it's more to do with temperature but I would of thought winter tyres would have higher wet grip ratings than they do.
Any help or recommendations on this subject would be awesome, looking for 4 to fit to my original 17"" monza's then will be buying new wheels and tyres for summer next year.
Cheers guys
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I'd say it's down to temperature.
A winter boot at 20C in the wet will be worse than summer tyre in the wet at that temp... however remove 15C off that; at 5C and the winter tyre will become a lot better in the wet.
Winter boots start making sense around ~7C and below... in the slush/ice and snow there is simply no comparison the winter boot is far, far superior.
I think you will notice the biggest difference simply moving from summer to winter tyres in those conditions, the difference between brands you won't be able to tell because you cannot compare them.
I've personally used Dunlop 3D's, GY Ultragrips and this year I'll be trying the Continental TS 830P or possibly 850p if I can find them, on the fronts (still have plenty of tread on the GY's for the rear).
Makes winter driving much more pleasurable. What I find interesting about the 17 inch vs 18 inch winter tyres is the speed rating the 18's are V rated and the 17's H. But as long as your not doing over 130MPH in the snow, you should be ok. :laugh:
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There are lots of threads on here about the pros and cons of winter tyres.
Personlly cannot recommend them highly enough.
Bought 18" Conti TS830P winters in 2010. And in a couple of months they'll be going on for their 4th winter season.
Exceptional in cold weather. Sublime in snow/ice. Well worth the peace of mind for me.
The only cons really are cost/storage/hassle of swapping them over. But all the cons are far outweighed by the pro points.
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Looking at my first set of winter tyres and looking for recommendations from people who use them. Done some searching on here and other forums and I'm looking at the Vredestein Wintrac xtreme. A lot of people seem to recommend these. I'm just slightly confused by the Wet Grip rating of 'E' as I hear people say the braking performance of winter tyres in the wet are much better than summer tyres. I know it's more to do with temperature but I would of thought winter tyres would have higher wet grip ratings than they do.
Any help or recommendations on this subject would be awesome, looking for 4 to fit to my original 17"" monza's then will be buying new wheels and tyres for summer next year.
Cheers guys
This is exactly what I'm doing... My summer tyres are nearing 3mm so as soon as they get to 2mm or the weather dips into singles... I'll by putting winters on and buying myself some pescaras ready for summer :drool: just need to find somewhere to store them.....
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Thanks for the replies guys! :happy2:
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Check out tyrereviews.co.uk , I remember looking at the tyres you mentioned for my wife's car and they had good feedback.
Most winter tyres don't score highly on the new scale. I did watch a tv programme that said the A-G scale is quite misleading and shouldn't be relied upon alone in tyre choice.
You will notice any premium or mid range winter tyre gives a huge gain over summer tyres when the temperature drops. I ran Hankook Icebear W300 last year, the grip on cold water, ice and snow was amazing.
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I've got some Vredestein Wintrac Xtreme sitting in the garage to go on when the temp drops. Cheers for the reply though
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How much did you pay and where did you get them from?
I'm having a nightmare getting a set for my wife's car from the local place I usually use.
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Bought them off Oponeo at £111 a tyre. 225/45/17 94V
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Thanks I'll take a look, not heard of that site before.
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Winter tyres are only really worthwhile in the snow. Even at 2 or 3 degrees so long as there is no snow on the ground then your high performance summer tyre will be better than your winter tyre.
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/All-Season-Tyres-How-Do-They-Stack-Up.htm
Around 7 degrees in those tests, in all apart from the snow test, the summer tyre was best.
Last year on my TDI I ran my Vredestein Sessantas and managed to get up a hill on my way to work, where some woman was spinning all 4 wheels in her Q7 in her ultimately unsuccessful attempt to get up the hill.
That being said tyre tread pattern plays a large part. The Sessantas have a nice chunky pattern with large gaps between the tread blocks allowing the snow to be grabbed , where as your asymmetric tyre like the Eagle F1 would struggle more.
The biggest factor in winter is driving habits and technique. I'm going to be running Sessantas again over winter.
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Winter tyres are daft.... Ive coped ( and so have millions of other people) without them. Save yourselves £450 and keep your summer tyres on. :happy2:
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I used to think that too and, in defence of that, I've always used summer tyres without too much difficulty. Last year I put a set of Nokian WR-A3 on for winter and the difference was like night and day. Mine will be going on again when the morning and evening temps start hovering around 5 degrees.
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I ran Hankook Icebear winter tyres for the first time list year after driving a crappy hire car on a skiing holiday in Canada that had winter tyres and being so impressed.
My GTi was flawless in the snow, ice, flooded roads. On snow the grip is amazing and the car is easily drivable while every once else is sliding around. On untreated icy roads, which I have a lot of round here, the car grips as if it's dry. You don't realise how good they are until you drive them and then get in a car with summer tyres again.
If you are serious about driving safely without compromise and risk then buy winter tyres, they really aren't that expensive. Your tyres are the only thing keeping your car on the road, it's the last thing you should be tight about.
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On untreated icy roads, which I have a lot of round here, the car grips as if it's dry.
Well that's a lie now isn't it :happy2:
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Money is obviously playing a factor in people's decision to fit the safest tyre for the conditions here, as long as they are consistent and dont travel when there's snow/ice on the ground then it won't endanger others.
After an horrendous accident here a few years ago... No snow on the ground but patches of ice, 4 cyclists were killed in a pack of 12 as a driver crossed lanes out of control wiping them all out, summer tyres in low temps, he wasn't speeding. On that same stretch of road a little earlier, a colleague fully wintered up didn't even mention the road when he came in to work....
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnewsimg.bbc.co.uk%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2F41194000%2Fjpg%2F_41194468_cyclingcrashwide203pa.jpg&hash=cfa8ae7481f1d3b15aa162f2625b3144da9c2d3f)
If the guy had winter tyres on, then maybe, just maybe, those 4 souls would still be here. RIP.
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Nope, I genuinely couldn't tell that the road was icy as there was zero slip, slide or skidding, until I got out the car and slipped over! :laugh:
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Nope, I genuinely couldn't tell that the road was icy as there was zero slip, slide or skidding, until I got out the car and slipped over! :laugh:
To be fair then you're probably not the best person to explain how tyre grip is effected by ice and show. It's completely different.
Scotty who's to say the guy isn't on budgets, or whos car wasn't otherwise in bad condition.
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The guy didn't get prosecuted so everything must have been legal.
Personally, I will do everything in my power to make sure that my vehicle is the safest it can be for the conditions, if that means winter tyres at low temps and when there's a snow/ice risk, then so be it, at least I know I've done what I can to keep myself and others safe; do you not think the same?
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On untreated icy roads, which I have a lot of round here, the car grips as if it's dry.
Well that's a lie now isn't it :happy2:
:laugh:
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Nope, I genuinely couldn't tell that the road was icy as there was zero slip, slide or skidding, until I got out the car and slipped over! :laugh:
To be fair then you're probably not the best person to explain how tyre grip is effected by ice and show. It's completely different.
Scotty who's to say the guy isn't on budgets, or whos car wasn't otherwise in bad condition.
That was said in jest.... :sad1:
I've never claimed to be an expert in tyre design and there are plenty of videos of experiments/tests online if people want to read them .
All I know from personal experience last year that when I drive to work at 7am on untreated roads when it's 0c outside my summer tyres were very twitchy, you get wheel spin with not much throttle, slide on cornering and slipping under braking. I changed my wheels over at the weekend and drive the same journey in the same weather conditions the next week and the car doesn't have any of those problems. It genuinely feels like normal road conditions, obviously I'm not driving very fast as I know it's still icy out!
I think the point is that if you only drive during the middle of the day when the temperature creeps up then no you don't need winter tyres. But if you drive to work before 10am when it's below 3 or 4c then you will defintely notice the difference and be a lot safer.
I 100% agree with Scottymon, I'm prepared to spend the money the myself and other road users safer.
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The guy didn't get prosecuted so everything must have been legal.
Personally, I will do everything in my power to make sure that my vehicle is the safest it can be for the conditions, if that means winter tyres at low temps and when there's a snow/ice risk, then so be it, at least I know I've done what I can to keep myself and others safe; do you not think the same?
I don't think a tyre can make up for drive skill deficiencies (not saying that you are a crap driver).
Just that a good driver who understands the physics of his car and the surface on his regular quality "summer tyres" will do better than any old idiot who thinks he can drive like he would normally just because he has winter tyres (which is a bigger danger IMHO).
I maintain in the UK you do not NEED winter tyres.
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oh no mate don't get me wrong I agree on snowy, icey roads snow tyres make a HUGE difference. I ran them the year before last.
However on non-icey roads there is not a large difference.
It's all good. :wink:
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Depends where you live bud, anything with a bit of elevation your not getting home on the summers, doesn't matter how good a driver we think we all are. :happy2: TBH, sometimes it's all a bit academic because clearance becomes an issue too; the GTI makes a good snow plough though.
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I live in sunny Cumbria!
My tyres are nearly done for now so will be putting winters on within the next fortnight.. It's a no brainer when I'm buying some new wheels in the new year... May aswell keep the standards with winters on...
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I maintain in the UK you do not NEED winter tyres.
Thats right you don't need them, just as you don't need a warm coat when its freezing outside, however, if you do have one you'll enjoy going out more as your prepared - same with winter tyres.
I know some people take an umbrella out with them in case it rains, its a good precaution - you've prepared well, just in case
It really depends on where you live and what the weathers doing, which we know is very unpredictable in the UK, that said we do get regular frost in the winter
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Someone was asking me about winter tyres other day.
From what I read tho as I don't commute in my car if it's stupid weather I'll just stay in and save myself the hassle :laugh:
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I'm running these
Goodyear Ultragrip 8 Performance 225/40 R18 92V XL M+S Winter Tyre
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I'm running these
Goodyear Ultragrip 8 Performance 225/40 R18 92V XL M+S Winter Tyre
I'm going for these on the front this year, I've had Goodyear Ultragrip Performance 2 over past winters and they've been great.
How have you found them?
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I think location plays a big factor, winter in one area can be completely different to another as well as how the council treat the roads during winter times. I live in the South Wales valleys and to get out of my street either way involves going up steep inclines. The mrs uses the car for work so will feel a lot more comfortable knowing she's running on good tyres for her and the car's sake.
Main reason I'm buying winters is the fact I have a nice bit of disposable income, all 4 tyres on my monza's need replacing and it created a good story to the mrs as an excuse to run 2 sets of wheels so I could buy some nicer summer wheels.
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Winter tyres are daft....
Which ones did you try, Rich?
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Winter tyres are daft....
Which ones did you try, Rich?
None. Don't need to.
I'm running a048s at the moment in the rain, and they are fine.... Ok maybe a little slippy at times.
I've driven thru 8/9 winters on summer tyres and I'm still here.
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Honestly, I'd suggest trying them. I was skeptical but took the plunge a couple of years ago when it started snowing. There's a gentle sloping road near me and where other cars were spinning their wheels to get up, I managed to go up the slope without a hitch. Even in cold weather, I've noticed a difference in grip and performance.
In fact, the only time I've had problems is where the road is so thick with snow, I couldn't travel down it due to clearance issues.
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I'm not doubting that they work jaz! :happy2:
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:wink:
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You might not need them per se - I was of this opinion too.
...Until I tried some Nankang SV-2s last winter, £100 a corner. Just the two up front. The difference was night and day. They make snow an absolute ease to drive through and ice/black is no longer the hazard it could have been. I didn't get stuck once and I followed Defenders and Discoveries up an A road that was closed locally. The copper assumed I had Quattro, but I don't and didn't want to argue it so I left it at that :laugh: :grin:
To do it properly I'd recommend four, but even with just the two there's no doubt the car felt safer and more planted in all areas. The back slides out more with two winters and two summers on the rear, but that was a nice side effect for an empty car park in the snow :evilgrin:
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Every winter these threads pop up and every winter the camp divides! :grin:
I ran my first set 3 winters ago and never bothered with them before that. I was happy enough without but I prefer to have them now I've had a taste of the benefits.
To those considering running 2 on the front only instead of 4...don't. You'll be asking for trouble. If you have a tyre bay whose advice you trust just ask them. If you don't like the advice you can always convince yourself they were trying to sell you 2 tyres you don't need. :P
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Well... quite frankly if you fit just 2 to the front, then you are very very silly indeed! Youll be going backwards in no time at all!
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just leave your car in the garage when it snows :innocent:
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Guaranteed with all this talk of snow we'll have the hottest winter on record. :party:
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The missus reliably informs me that this will be the coldest winter in 100 years. Some French meteorological website she was on claims low sunspot activity as the root cause.
:smiley:
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The child in me loves snow...especially that moment when you throw open the curtains and there it is. Then there's that special silence you get when nothing's moving. Love it. Bring it on! :jumping:
I never liked sun spots anyway. :laugh:
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The missus reliably informs me that this will be the coldest winter in 100 years. Some French meteorological website she was on claims low sunspot activity as the root cause.
:smiley:
If that's the case I'm buying me one of these:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.totaldiscountseamlessgutters.com%2Fimages%2Fcanada_goose_citadel_parka_4567m_black.jpg&hash=4bbe58262e96952dfbe7eb873a37787ca471c71f)
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The child in me loves snow...especially that moment when you throw open the curtains and there it is. Then there's that special silence you get when nothing's moving. Love it. Bring it on! :jumping:
I never liked sun spots anyway. :laugh:
I agree flash. It's ace when it snows, I love it :jumping:
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Snow + S6 was epic.
Not sure if the kids walking to school mere inches from me doing my Hannu Mikkola impression appreciated it or not though. Quattro FTW! :evilgrin: :ashamed:
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I love the snow.. Plenty of empty car parks around me, with raised kerbs which makes things more interesting....
I did go around a round about and come out the other side facing backwards when I had the Polo though... Hence my reasoning for winters this year!
70bhp with 195/45 = loss of control
200bhp with 215/45 = I need winters
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215/45?
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Within Tolerance, about 1.4% off 225/45/17
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215/45?
Knew it was one or the other... Took a guess as I haven't changed tyres on my gti as of yet! Knew I'd choose the wrong size to write! hahah
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Well... quite frankly if you fit just 2 to the front, then you are very very silly indeed! Youll be going backwards in no time at all!
I wouldn't recommend it to others Rich, no, but daft as it may seem on paper I got on absolutely fine in a car with 350NM torque before my Stage 1 map on them. I never had a problem where the car was out of control because of the tyre setup and the two up front simply meant I never got stuck.
It simply meant if you pushed for stupid inevitable oversteer, it came more controllably with a bit more weight but made fun time (off road) a lot more enjoyable :party:
Hill starts weren't a problem in fairly thick snow and I could snow plough through fresh snow when it was over a foot high, so job done.
But for peace of mind, four winters' would indeed be the wise mans game :happy2:
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Is it too early to get them on now? They won't wear down before I want them taken off in march will they??
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I would wait until temps are regularly below 7*C which is when they benefit over summer tyres.
Personally, I wait until temps start to hit around 5*C.
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I'll check my tread in the morning and make the judgement call then... Not getting another set of summers just for a few weeks though haha
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They do wear quicker at higher temps... the performance versions aren't too bad even at the temps we have now but don't go thinking they are AS2's :happy2:
Auto Express reckons we'd benefit from winter tyres over summer tyres for about 6 months; when the temps are averagely below 7*C
Once you've made the inital plunge (buying second set of wheels/tyres) it's nice to know you've got them to go on when you see fit.
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Everyone who has owned a set loves them and most likely has a set ready, everyone who deems them as not necessary seems not to have driven on them or owned them.
Go figure. :signLOL:
My wife has a colleague who's husband has retired from the Met Office after 40 years service. He still analyses his own logs and trends and his observations are that so far this year our weather has a similar pattern to that of 1962.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20785406 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20785406)
Guess we'll see in time!
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I want loads of snow!
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Everyone who has owned a set loves them and most likely has a set ready, everyone who deems them as not necessary seems not to have driven on them or owned them.
Go figure. :signLOL:
My wife has a colleague who's husband has retired from the Met Office after 40 years service. He still analyses his own logs and trends and his observations are that so far this year our weather has a similar pattern to that of 1962.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20785406 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20785406)
Guess we'll see in time!
Except for a small minority that's definitely the case.
Re: Harshness of the winter, a lot of peeps are suggesting the same, be interesting to see the price of winter tyres if we do have crazy snow falls.
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Just ordered some uniroyal MSPlus66 getting them fitted on Wednesday.
225/44/R17 94V
These will be sufficient for the Golf GTI won't they?
http://www.camskill.co.uk/m97b0s637p97668/Uniroyal_Tyres_Winter_Snow_Car_Uniroyal_MSPlus66_Uniroyal_MS_Plus_66_-_225_45_R17_94V_XL_FR_TL_Fuel_Eff_%3A_F_Wet_Grip%3A_C_NoiseClass%3A_2_Noise%3A_71dB
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I know you mean 225/45/17 so that's fine and the load 94 and speed rating V is all good. :happy2: As far as performance of the tyre is concerned I've no idea, any reviews?
I used to swear by Uniroyal Rainsports for wet weather driving... that's the only Uniroyal tyre I've used.
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Yeah, iPhone and fat thumbs haha.
Just checked the hand book and it says just put a speed warning on if you out a lesser speed rating on... So the insurers can't used it as an excuse..
Cheers :happy2:
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Yeah, most winter boots are a lot lower speed rating, but "V" is about 150MPH iirc. :laugh:
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I've got V rated winters so I didn't bother with the speed warning either.
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Just bought some continental winter contact TS830P 18s so will be getting them on the car shortly. First time using them so will be interested to see how they perform
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Tyres fitted today at CamSkill.
Massively impressed with the wet grip! Doesn't pull when going over standing water. Corners are a bit rolly cause of the soft tread though!
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Auto Express Winter Tyre Test published today. 1, 2 & 3 were Nokian D3s, TS850s and GY Ultragrip 8s, in that order but separated by 1.1% points between 1st and 3rd. I've been happy with my Nokian A3s
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Just bought some continental winter contact TS830P 18s so will be getting them on the car shortly. First time using them so will be interested to see how they perform
You'll like these winter tyres. Really good. My 830P's are about to go on for their 4th season.
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I'm not sure whether to go with some Ultragrip 8 Performance or the Continentals 830P for my fronts, can get the former in 225 40 18 for £128 delivered.
Seems the 830P's are a better allrounder but the 8P's (if the Performance 2's were anything to go by) slightly better in the snow, which I'd prefer tbh. 830p's are much more expensive atm too.
At what tread depth do you guys bin the winter tyres? I've got 2x at around 4mm and 1x at around 5mm.
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Auto Express Winter Tyre Test published today. 1, 2 & 3 were Nokian D3s, TS850s and GY Ultragrip 8s, in that order but separated by 1.1% points between 1st and 3rd. I've been happy with my Nokian A3s
WOW, just saw that... the Nokian's blow the 2 big boys for the last few years off top spot! And the cheapest to boot!
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Hold on, The Nokian WR D3 came 4th in 2012 (with poor snow performance) and 1st in 2013 (with the best snow performance), the tread design is the same... what gives?
2013: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/66646/nokian-wr-d3
2012: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/wheels-and-tyres/60716/nokian-wr-d3
:confused:
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Just bought some continental winter contact TS830P 18s so will be getting them on the car shortly. First time using them so will be interested to see how they perform
You'll like these winter tyres. Really good. My 830P's are about to go on for their 4th season.
Winner! Got a Stella deal on them so very happy hearing this :happy2:
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Hold on, The Nokian WR D3 came 4th in 2012 (with poor snow performance) and 1st in 2013 (with the best snow performance), the tread design is the same... what gives?
2013: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/66646/nokian-wr-d3
2012: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/wheels-and-tyres/60716/nokian-wr-d3
:confused:
Different compound?
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Hold on, The Nokian WR D3 came 4th in 2012 (with poor snow performance) and 1st in 2013 (with the best snow performance), the tread design is the same... what gives?
2013: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/66646/nokian-wr-d3
2012: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/wheels-and-tyres/60716/nokian-wr-d3
:confused:
Different compound?
Check out the comments, people are calling bullsh*t, lol:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/66646/nokian-wr-d3#disqus_thread
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Winter wheels and tyres going on tomorrow at 3pm
18" matt black monzas with 225/40/18 Nexen wingaurd sport (£65 each delivered) v rated
Would normally use Nokian wr or vredenstein wintrac extreme
But car only needs to go to he shops and back without getting stuck so cheap ones will do this year.
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Not putting my Winters on until I have to swipe away the snow for the jack. :evilgrin: :happy2:
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Will be putting my summer tyres back on next week!! :signLOL:
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Will be putting my summer tyres back on next week!! :signLOL:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthehyperioneffect.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F09%2Fthe-day-after-tomorrow-5056eba7597ba.jpg&hash=8b90b8ee1967c4c11a319ec7ada9c31769a6b6e9)
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I hope not... Im in Scotland over xmas!!! :signLOL:
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Yokohama W Drive 225/40R18 92 V XL on mine. £128 each from oponeo.co.uk £512 for 4 with free delivery.
used these for 2 years and very impressed. both wet grip and snow is excellent!
Vredestein Xtreme Wintrac 225/40 R18 92 W XL £119 4 for £476 and free delivery.
used these too also excellent.
would recommend either really, i think i paid £600 2 years ago for the Yokohamas and I've still got many years ahead to go!
haven't tried the Continentals 830P but was considering them when i was shopping about. i think they were slightly more expensive at that point so went for the Yokos, but I'm very happy with my choice.
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I hope not... Im in Scotland over xmas!!! :signLOL:
You not seen the film, that's where the Super Cell is. :scared: