MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: fuscobal on October 07, 2013, 08:01:29 pm
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Ok, so let's say I have some problems with my LPFP not providing enough fuel to the HPFP so I'd want to upgrade. Since my engine code is AXX from 2006, I definately have the first LPFP > 1k0 919 051 BH which from 01/01/2010 has been replaced by a newer code called 1k0 919 051 CL. Having a look in Etka at 2 R20 VINs, I see they have other 2 codes and a different controller. First one is 1k0 919 051 CN (from 02.02.2011) which has quickly been replaced by 1k0 919 051 DE from 01/05/2011. Looking at my logs, my LPFP starts from 5 bar and drops to 3.2bar at redline (3 years ago it was 3.6 bar but perhaps the age left it's mark). Looking at my R20 friend's logs with mods similar to mine, I see his pump starts from 5.8bar and only drops to 5 bar at redline. I said to myself I should simply order the latest R20 pump revision but I hear there are some mechanical differences between AXX FWD pump and AWD R20 pump (something having to do with the shape of the fuel tank). In this case I could go safe only with the revision that shows under my VIN and ends with CL but won't know if that's as good as my frien's R20. Now let's go to options :
1) OEM newer revision pump from my VIN or even R20 (even newer but can't know for sure if it works) > cost would be nearby 250Euros
2) USp motorsport OEM modified pump > http://www.uspmotorsports.com/USP-Motorsports-Low-Pressure-Fuel-System.html > costs 500$ + shipping and taxes to Europe > they say it gives an extra 50whp
3) USP modified OEM pump + upgraded control module > http://www.uspmotorsports.com/USP-Drop-In-High-Flow-Fuel-Pump-FSI-TSI.html > costs 1000$ + shipping and taxes to Europe > This is highly recommended for non US spec as some of these models will experience intermittent issues with the pump due to voltage fluctuations
4) APR > http://www.uspmotorsports.com/UpgradedIntankFuelPump.html > much cheaper at just 267$ but don't know what's the difference between this and 3) or 4) .I suppose this uses the OEM control module !
5) Other Walbro or Bosch options that I think are auxiliary pumps ?!?
I need the best option knowing I don't have a huge turbo (k04, max 380HP, 475NM) and I need reliability for the track !
3)
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Pm Alex:
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1981
He can supply a...(think) TTRS lpfp and the modification so it fits fwd.
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Noticed this but I'm not sure on the fitting!
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/parts-and-plates/parts-and-accessories/volkswagen/044-bosch-300lph-fuel-pump-0580-254-044/1741384
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it fits both the tt-rs pump and the usp intank solution ( i believe that it's an rs3 with block off) I'm currently running the usp stage 2 (rs3) pump and it has curred my dip at high rpms fuscobal :drinking:
I'm still on the stock AXX controller :happy2:
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Jake do you have some picture how block off looks like?
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I sell the pumps and have had blanks made up. Started to gather some group buy interest in them a while back.
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Jake do you have some picture how block off looks like?
The outtake for the extra pickup is melted for 2wd use, Alex' uses a proper block off plug :happy2:
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Danish, do you have a log with your OEM lpfp before the upgrade ? Do you think mine dropping to 3.2bar at redline can cause power loss ? Done some pulls recently and seems I can barely beat one of the fastest k03 around. Car makes 100-160km(60-100mph) in 6.7 secs wich is kinda slow knowing my car now has only 1450kg. 3 years ago it was doing 6.4secs while having 1670kg !!! Will log some more and also need to update my Revo software. A friend of mine tells me he has Revo version 12...I think I have 1 or 2 :)
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I can have new TTRS pump for £220 so thats why i am asking how plug looks like :happy2:
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TTRS from USP
http://www.uspmotorsports.com/USP-Motorsports-Low-Pressure-Fuel-System.html
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1205.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb434%2Frohecht%2F956a2e54-3108-4015-9497-04c3b26dccff.jpg&hash=274af03fa70cb6224dbb853c9c64e5f857b3057a) (http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/rohecht/media/956a2e54-3108-4015-9497-04c3b26dccff.jpg.html)
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If it's the same one, why buy it from USP for 500$ + taxes when we can have it here for about 250Euros ? After reading some reviews around the internet, including one from APR stating the pump alone works well on some cars but burns the controller on others, should I be thinking of getting the TT-RS controller also ? My car probably has the first and oldest pump and controller since it was made in late 2005 !
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If it's the same one, why buy it from USP for 500$ + taxes when we can have it here for about 250Euros ? After reading some reviews around the internet, including one from APR stating the pump alone works well on some cars but burns the controller on others, should I be thinking of getting the TT-RS controller also ? My car probably has the first and oldest pump and controller since it was made in late 2005 !
My controller same age as yours works with this pump :)
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I've not had any controller issues. The map can be to blame for the controller shutting down if the map requests too much pressure. Revo maps are fine.
Not sure what the arrow in the pic is pointing at? That tube is on all the pumps and is the return feed from the fuel filter. The blank I have goes into a tube that isn't in that pic.
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg854%2F3848%2Ft5hh.jpg&hash=16351321729b3ce643c2740601589e3f12b9dcb8)
:happy2:
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If it's the same one, why buy it from USP for 500$ + taxes when we can have it here for about 250Euros ? After reading some reviews around the internet, including one from APR stating the pump alone works well on some cars but burns the controller on others, should I be thinking of getting the TT-RS controller also ? My car probably has the first and oldest pump and controller since it was made in late 2005 !
My controller same age as yours works with this pump :)
Sorry, forgot you already answered this in an earlier post. This is good news...hopefully we've got the same controller (there can be changes to various parts under the same engine code)
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Alex, did u get my PM regarding the LPFP ?
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Forgot to come back with the results. The TT-RS pump install went fine with a minor mod to the floating mechanism as it was touching the wall of the tank (I suppose this was the cause for the fuel readings most guys have). Fuel reading is ok for me. After the install, car pulls much stronger but i see no more than 3.6-3.8bar although the requested is 4.5bar. Duty cycle is only 50-60% as opposed to 90-100% for the oem pump, which shows pump has plenty of capacity left but doesn't use it. May it be the oem controller limiting it ?
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Oem controller or your mapping, or both. I would have though. I have the TTRS pump too
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Forgot to come back with the results. The TT-RS pump install went fine with a minor mod to the floating mechanism as it was touching the wall of the tank (I suppose this was the cause for the fuel readings most guys have). Fuel reading is ok for me. After the install, car pulls much stronger but i see no more than 3.6-3.8bar although the requested is 4.5bar. Duty cycle is only 50-60% as opposed to 90-100% for the oem pump, which shows pump has plenty of capacity left but doesn't use it. May it be the oem controller limiting it ?
Did you do a basic setting for the pump after install?
Prerequisites:
Ignition ON
Engine ON
System voltage at least 11.0 V.
[Select]
[01 - Engine]
[Basic Settings - 04]
Group 103
[Go!]
Activate the Basic Setting.
[ON/OFF/Next]
Wait until Field 4 shows "ADP. O.K.".
[Done, Go Back]
[Close Controller, Go Back - 06]
Switch Ignition OFF.
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Forgot to come back with the results. The TT-RS pump install went fine with a minor mod to the floating mechanism as it was touching the wall of the tank (I suppose this was the cause for the fuel readings most guys have). Fuel reading is ok for me. After the install, car pulls much stronger but i see no more than 3.6-3.8bar although the requested is 4.5bar. Duty cycle is only 50-60% as opposed to 90-100% for the oem pump, which shows pump has plenty of capacity left but doesn't use it. May it be the oem controller limiting it ?
The TT-RS pump install went fine with a minor mod to the floating mechanism as it was touching the wall of the tank (I suppose this was the cause for the fuel readings most guys have)
Hey Matey
what was the minor mod to the floating mechanism? Did you remove the one from the old pump to fit to the new pump?
Thanks
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Having inaccurate readings Neil?
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Fuscobal, have you replaced your fuel filter? That has a pressure limiting valve for the low pressure side of the fuel supply. :wink:
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Several people have fallen foul of incorrect fuel winter.
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Several people have fallen foul of incorrect fuel winter.
Huh! Confused dot com.
Maybe diesel, but not petrol . . . :nerd:
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**Filter
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bacillus, I will do the adaptation asap, thanks. The mod for the floating mechanism consists of modifying the shape of the metal wire so that the floater comes closer to the pump's body and further away from the wall...you can see the pics on my install here > http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,12484.225.html
Teutonic, the fuel filter is 6bar if I recall correctly !
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Teutonic, the fuel filter is 6bar if I recall correctly !
Have you actually changed the filter? The filter itself has the pressure limiting valve for the low pressure side - and that may be foobar'd. If your ECU requests 6bar, the controller on your low pressure lift pump may well be delivering 6bar, but the pressure limiting valve in the filter might be knackered (say only allowing 3bar), and and sending excess pressure (and therefore volume) back to the tank.
A relatively simple job to replace, and even if it doesn't fix the prob of low pressure, at least you'll hopefully be getting a better fuel flow. :happy2:
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Replaced the filter 1 year ago and done like 3-4000miles since then. Should I replace it again wirh an identical one or can that pressure limiting valve be removed frim it ?
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Several people have fallen foul of incorrect fuel winter.
The TFSI's come with a 6.4bar filter IIRC. The latest part number is 6.6 bar :happy2: