MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: TH3_FRB on October 21, 2013, 05:39:30 pm
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Just gave DM a shot and showing me what they can do with the K04. I've had APR tuning since Stg 1 and never had any issues - no mis-fires and very good fuel trims. There was a local dyno day coming up so I had a chance to get some cheap pulls in and do a back to back comparison. I did baseline runs with APR on Friday afternoon and had them flash me back to stock. Then I flashed the initial DM K04+ file that night and went out to collect some logs early Sat morning. DM turned around a couple of revisions within 30min on Sat morning and I went back to dyno around noon.
Here is the dyno chart with my best baseline run on APR tuning and a good run with DM. My first DM run hit 316WHP but it had some issues (maybe clutch slip) so Bronson thinks it's best to toss that one out. I P-chopped the lines off the chart. My goal was to make this as fair a comparison as possible of what APR's off the shelf tune does compared to what DM can do with some customization. The only hardware difference is a 3bar MAP sensor ($40) that I swapped in 20min. Same dyno, same temp, same tank of gas, just slightly more humid for the DM pulls because it was overcast and we had some light rain. if anything the humidity would have hurt the DM results slightly.
For reference, here are my mods.
S3 K04
S3 injectors
APR HPFP
Eurojet FMIC with turbo discharge and throttle body pipes
BSH intake
BSH catch can
Milltek TBE with hi-flow cat
So...the results: +29WHP, +45TQ
APR K04 - 275WHP, 280TQ
DM K04+ - 304WHP, 325TQ
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fs64%2FTH3_FRB%2FAPR-DM-K04copy_zpsb6c8e12f.jpg&hash=7c7fd0c83a06d2e599bb6f860ce9fccd93c2e54d)
And here's the actual boost from logs of APR and DM. You can see that there is more at work in the DM log than just cranking up the boost. I got 29whp and 45wtq with only 1.5psi additional boost in the mid-range.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fs64%2FTH3_FRB%2FAPR-DMboost_zpsaa667594.png&hash=84ed25077b8909ad6981add42facd237d9078cfb)
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Is it available in the UK?
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Sure. You get a small programmer unit and do all of the flashing yourself. Initially you send a copy of your stock file to DM (programmer extracts this from the ECU) and then they email you a new tune. It's only about a 2MB file. That means you don't have to screw around with any shops, scheduling, labor fees, etc. They will also make revisions to optimize the file after you provide logs back.
http://www.drivermotorsport.com/Volkswagen.html
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Do you working for DM then? :innocent:
One thing you can never trust is figures when a tuner is comparing x or Y tuners software against their own software on their own Dyno. Many easy ways to fluff results to make yourselves look better.
SHould have dne it an independant dyno IMO.
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I'm pretty sure APR don't use the same tune in the US as they do in the UK, what makes DM think they could produce the same power difference over here?
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I'm not sure where you got the impression that this wasn't an independent dyno
I have no affiliation with Driver Motorsport...aside from now being a happy customer. This data is from dyno runs I paid for out of my pocket at a local shop I picked. The shop I ran on the dyno at is local to me and had never heard of DM before I came in but they were pretty damn impressed with the results and asked me to put them incontact with DM to tune an Audi RS6 for them. They happen to be an APR dealer which was nice because they flashed me back to stock after my baseline runs on Friday so I could be back Sat to run again with the DM tune.
Full disclosure - DM offered me a trial of sorts - I pay for the programmer up front. After getting the tune I can either decide I'm not satisfied and send the programmer back for a refund and go back to my APR tune or pay the remaining balance and keep the DM tune. This was all knowing that I was planning a dyno comparison and was going to post results on some forums. They obviously felt confident in their product. They were actually a bit anxious after I send initial logs from my APR tune because it runs great - said itr was the best APR K04 logs they've ever seen.
Do you working for DM then? :innocent:
One thing you can never trust is figures when a tuner is comparing x or Y tuners software against their own software on their own Dyno. Many easy ways to fluff results to make yourselves look better.
SHould have dne it an independant dyno IMO.
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I have no idea what DM thinks they can do compared to a Euro APR tune. I was simply trying to let you guys know about another tuning option that produced solid results for me. Honestly, I'm prety damn impressed. I always though APR was solid, and they probably are considering it's an "off the shelf" tune that has to work across a broad range of hardware configurations. The big difference here IMO is the customization based on my specific logs. I just loaded my 3rd revision last night and already have a new file waiting for me when I get home.
I'm pretty sure APR don't use the same tune in the US as they do in the UK, what makes DM think they could produce the same power difference over here?
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Are you using a powergate programmer?
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I'm not sure where you got the impression that this wasn't an independent dyno
Apologies, i misread the OP.
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I have no idea what they use to write the tune files but this is what they sent me to load them onto my ECU:
http://www.drivermotorsport.com/Driver%20Data.html
Are you using a powergate programmer?
:notworthy:
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I have no idea what they use to write the tune files but this is what they sent me to load them onto my ECU:
http://www.drivermotorsport.com/Driver%20Data.html
Are you using a powergate programmer?
:notworthy:
Same unit Shark Performance use.
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Are these stage 1 maps? Usually when running TBE and HPFP they will use stage 2 maps which ordinarily in APR tune are pushing 350-360hp +.
APR are trialing a new K04 file for stage 2+ cars which I'm hoping to have installed.
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This to the wheels for a 2008 FSI, not TSI, not R.
Are these stage 1 maps? Usually when running TBE and HPFP they will use stage 2 maps which ordinarily in APR tune are pushing 350-360hp +.
APR are trialing a new K04 file for stage 2+ cars which I'm hoping to have installed.
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Here is the latest DM K04+ graph
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1205.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb434%2Frohecht%2Fdumb%2520forum%2520stuff%2FScreenshot44.png&hash=414355fb616d027e3d1404eb1a7af51e8d7fa9ae) (http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/rohecht/media/dumb%20forum%20stuff/Screenshot44.png.html)
My programmer is on its way...I can't wait to get it and load one of the two files. One is a delayed boost and torque file keeping boost and torque flat up to redline, and the other brings on torque quite early in the revs...do not know which one I will like best for DDing, but once I get a good amount behind the wheel with it I will post my thoughts. Dm would likely sell these in the UK, but best to email them or message through facebook. They are the best at communication and get right back to you in most cases to chat. One huge reason I decided to switch from giac to DM beside the huge power gains was that they also customize your tune to your own set up and send you your retune via email and then you just load the improved version yourself ;p
DM facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DriverMotorsport
DM email: engineering@drivermotorsport.com
DM web page: http://www.drivermotorsport.com/Home.html
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BTW, you need a 3.1bar Golf R MAP sensor for the K04+ file:
http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/038906051C/
http://www.idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=655
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Here is the latest DM K04+ graph
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1205.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb434%2Frohecht%2Fk04graph.jpg&hash=39b91f3d63258edfdc93525f2860c552da9c0397) (http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/rohecht/media/k04graph.jpg.html)
My programmer is on its way...I can't wait to get it and load one of the two files. One is a delayed boost and torque file keeping boost and torque flat up to redline, and the other brings on torque quite early in the revs...do not know which one I will like best for DDing, but once I get a good amount behind the wheel with it I will post my thoughts. Dm would likely sell these in the UK, but best to email them or message through facebook. They are the best at communication and get right back to you in most cases to chat. One huge reason I decided to switch from giac to DM beside the huge power gains was that they also customize your tune to your own set up and send you your retune via email and then you just load the improved version yourself ;p
DM facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DriverMotorsport
DM email: engineering@drivermotorsport.com
DM web page: http://www.drivermotorsport.com/Home.html
Something isn't right there. Did they extrapolate to crank hp/tq for those charts? Both files were updated based on my recent dynos and logs. The aggressive file was my second revision and made 304whp/325wtq. The "linear" file (5th revision) made 301whp/280wtq. I'm switching back to the aggressive tune but have both available.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
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Looks like a remote tuner rs tuning use on Renault
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Something isn't right there. Did they extrapolate to crank hp/tq for those charts? Both files were updated based on my recent dynos and logs. The aggressive file was my second revision and made 304whp/325wtq. The "linear" file (5th revision) made 301whp/280wtq. I'm switching back to the aggressive tune but have both available.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
Yes. Are you back onto the higher tq file now? I would hope one of the two will provide a nice high TQ deliverance as well. He's sending me a race fuel file for each of the two versions as well...that made my day for track days ;p
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Something isn't right there. Did they extrapolate to crank hp/tq for those charts? Both files were updated based on my recent dynos and logs. The aggressive file was my second revision and made 304whp/325wtq. The "linear" file (5th revision) made 301whp/280wtq. I'm switching back to the aggressive tune but have both available.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
Yes. Are you back onto the higher tq file now? I would hope one of the two will provide a nice high TQ deliverance as well. He's sending me a race fuel file for each of the two versions as well...that made my day for track days ;p
I switched back to the midrange torque version but I have both available.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
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...and you liking it better? I'm certain it is the one I'll run mostly ;p
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I like knowing I have 325 ft/lbs :(
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I stayed with the midrange as well...my old giac K04 HO tune did 0 to 120 mph in 15.8 sec's:
&feature=youtu.be
The new DM K04+ tune did it in 13.3 seconds:
New DM boost:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1205.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb434%2Frohecht%2Fdumb%2520forum%2520stuff%2Fnewpluggapboostgraph.jpg&hash=d43a6db752c4187fd63da7403389ee89237cbc16) (http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/rohecht/media/dumb%20forum%20stuff/newpluggapboostgraph.jpg.html)
old giac ho boost:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1205.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb434%2Frohecht%2Fnewboost.jpg&hash=7267454b8eeced3326636ac2a2cc07e3db6852d4) (http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/rohecht/media/newboost.jpg.html)
Going to get on the RR within a month :happy2: