MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Technical Workshop => Topic started by: Chris01 on October 28, 2013, 01:45:07 pm
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Hi, i'm new in this forum, but i've gone through a lot of threads as a guest. Reason being is that i'm looking to swap my midline instrument cluster with a GTI highline one. I've red hundreds of lines on this topic, and it seems that for every midline cluster theres an ideal highline p/n one to update to. However, when swapping from a 2006 Golf mk5 GT cluster (1k0..) to a GTI one (1k6..) things are not so straight forward, plus old clusters are harder to get. At this point i need to say that for some reason -probably stock fog lights- my Golf was equipped with a 21 bit highline CECM (3C0 937 049 E) during production, so theoretically it should support a highline MFD (?).
After a lot of browsing it seems i can get a GTI cluster with the following data:
Address 17: Instruments
Protocol: CAN
Part No: 1K6 920 873
Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT VDD 1610
Coding: 0005103
This is my cluster:
Address 17: Instruments
Protocol: CAN
Part No: 1K0 920 862 G
Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT VDD 4312
Coding: 0003103
So the question is will i be able to fit it, using Vag Com, and an e-bay Vag commander clone (not the insanely priced one) or is the new one an immo4c version which i wont be able to read/write? Any advice or comment on the topic is appreciated.
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yes that will work
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Thanks for the quick response! Does this mean the new cluster is immo4? Could someone confirm if this version of Vag commander (or another one) would do the job?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VAG-K-CAN-COMMANDER-V3-6-Audi-VW-Seat-Skoda-OBD-OBDII-/190916414312?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item2c73814b68&vxp=mtr
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Need some additional advice, is this normal for a cluster? Dials and clocks can move around like that or is it just broken?
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ff1712.mail.vip.ir2.yahoo.com%2Fya%2Fdownload%3Fmid%3D2%255f0%255f0%255f1%255f1029795%255fAIVUfbwAABAUUm7h%252bAAAANKfxT4%26amp%3Bpid%3D2.2%26amp%3Bfid%3DInbox%26amp%3Binline%3D1%26amp%3Bappid%3Dyahoomail&hash=a71758a370bf658e7c65abc1875210831304c4c6)
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if the needles are loose then they are broken
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Thanks again, i will check on that. The rpm clock also looks weird.
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I know this is a long shot, but has anyone managed to identify which byte in the Instruments tab controls the stock water temperature gauge (through Vag Com)?
The reason for asking is that in MK5 Golf GT's there's a boost gauge instead of water temp, and i would like to attempt to keep the boost controller while swapping the clusters. In Instruments, there are many byte entries that don't have a description. I'm guessing it should be one of those. If not it might mean that the controller is hardcoded in the cluster which would make it impossible to transfer the gauge in to a regular cluster.
Any information is greatly appreciated.
Here's a pic of a stock boost gauge.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.cnet.com.au%2Fstory_media%2F339290893%2Fvw-golf-gt-sport-tsi_9.jpg&hash=73acbf899d349e85ee3331b7290ef0bda582cac7)
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After 20 days i received a Vag commander version 5.1 from ebay and started the swap, only to find out that my copy does NOT feature the "Read/Write immo data" special function! It's not even on the interface. Only "Read/Write EEPROM" option which doesn't work. I have ordered another one (version 1.4) but it is going to take for ever. Has anyone got the correct version with the "Read/Write immo" option to share? I have tried some versions that i downloaded from the internet with no luck. The cable from this version hopefully works. By the way, to anyone that has done a swap, is it essential to remove the battery before swapping clusters? What's the point if i don't remove the airbag? Thanks.
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With that cable (whatever version) you will only be able to retreive the immo data from the 862 clocks but you will NOT be able to program this into 963 clocks using the clone.
What you are better off doing is trying to retrieve the immo data from your 862 clocks, email this and then post the highline clocks to Eddie-NL (above). He will put your immo info into the highlibe clocks and return them ASAP so your car is not off the road.
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Thanks for the suggestion! What i forgot to mention is that i didn't go ahead with the 873 clocks but got 862 clocks instead that match mine for the last 3 digits, only they are from a GTI (1k6920862). They are mid-line too, but i like the style on them, plus they were more likely to work. I would do that if only i was not so far away from the UK, so i'm not sure if this is an option. Plus, i would still need to read immo anyway for that. The ebay vag commander clones should work (for 2006 models) according to a couple of guides, i just got bad luck with mine, thinking that all versions can read/write immo data. I'll now have to sit and wait another 2-3 weeks which is driving me insane.
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Ah I see, but that makes a DIY easier then.
I have done cluster swaps using the clone I got many years back, they are only good for mk5 clocks between xx0-xx2.
They are definitely hit and miss.
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Haha I detect a tone of disappointment. Well right now easy is what I need since I could not find the same retrofit anywhere on the web. Plus I don't feel so comfortable messing with electronics i'm not specialized with, like immobilizers. By the way are you still using that old clone cable? I'm trying to get my hands on some other vag commander software to try out with the current cable, until the 2nd order arrives. After some more searching, it seems that the chip in the cable I got with the 1st vag commander (232R) is similar to -one of- the vag com cables.
Also I still can't seem to understand why in every cluster DIY, the battery must be disconnected. To force adaptation of the new modules? I might try without disconnecting it in the next round.
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Finally i got a working version of vag commander and did the swap. Everything works fine so far. Now i need to figure out how i can configure the stock temperature gauge to display boost instead of temp. Then i can swap the small boost gauge from the stock GT cluster with GTI's temp gauge. That seems tricky as Ross Tech support can't provide any info on this. For now i did a small test in vag com, changing the "Equipment number" field in Instruments with the one from the old cluster. Didn't work so i changed it back.
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i got eddie nl to supply & fit mine - good price decent bloke & road trip to great yarmouth :wink:
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Sweet, did you have the stock boost gauge installed from the Golf GT cluster, or was it a regular cluster swap?
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Some pictures before and after the swap. Nothing new for GTI folks : P I'm also liking the lit needles, it's a nice touch.
Old stock cluster
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg30%2F7315%2Frv61.png&hash=c435f292b0e813d68ccb325a3d47c0ad05e36dc7)
Christmas tree (pre-adaptation)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg59%2F2605%2Felg0.png&hash=54368c0c5626d2488e0e418a6ba3be9fbfc39ccf)
Working
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg577%2F3232%2F8urs.png&hash=a1f1564cdf2b380a87c444a81b5e1decd3901c8a)
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just a straight swap mid to highline for tdi
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So it seems that the boost controller is programmed in the EEPROM. Nothing Vag-Com can do. Now i need to find the address that controls the coolant temp in GTI's EEPROM and the corresponding address in GT's EEPROM (controlling boost pressure). Also, i should get the address that controls the warning LED or LCD message for coolant overheating, which is activated in the GT as there is no other way of knowing your coolant is too hot, but probably deactivated in the GTI. Any ideas on where i can get an EEPROM map or this specific info?
I could try to replace GTI's EEPROM with the one from GT cluster but there must be 0.001 chances of this working. Plus the dials would show wrong km/h in that case if they even worked.
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Not much progress here's a shot of the two EEPROMs side by side in a hex editor. There are too many differences to start taking shots in the dark.. :laugh: Anyone feeling lucky?
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg546.imageshack.us%2Fimg546%2F7753%2Ff2qt.png&hash=c6ef1594f667040b5688c353a8a4b2321429c125)
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Things should really just be a straight swap as long as you get all the old data over from the old cluster to the new one. Try to ask Spacewalker from vwvortex, he fitted a 2011 mfa premium into my 2006 golf, he really knows what he's doing!
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Appreciate the suggestion, the challenge here however is reprogramming the way the cluster translates the ECU signals. This is beyond the standard immo data that you need to swap in order for the cluster to work. Unfortunately, messing with the clusters EEPROM is not popular enough to produce solid information. Very specific functions are known -like making the needles light up without turning on the lights, and even that knowledge only applies to specific part numbers.
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If this was my problem I would move along these lines:-
Look for someone who does mileage correction on cars of different Marques!
They tend to look into what your interested in and have in-depth knowledge of both the clusters electronics and compatibility to chip modding and what address needs changed for your goals.
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Give up on the idea
fit a highline and get a polar FIS if you want to know what boost you have
messing with the eeprom if you don't know what it does could kill the dash
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Give up on the idea
fit a highline and get a polar FIS if you want to know what boost you have
messing with the eeprom if you don't know what it does could kill the dash
Ed's method would be quicker, cheaper and most likely easier to get your money back on!
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That could be an interesting approach, i would not hope for much though. Such people exist, but they mostly perform standard functions such as odometer changes like you mentioned and immo services. There might be someone who can go beyond the standard stuff but i'd be looking for a needle in the haystack most likely.
I reckon Eddie-NLs suggestion is the most sensible solution in case i need the extra functionality of the FIS. Making the boost gauge work in the GTI cluster would be a cool mod, that was the main reason of going for it. The information i'd get from it might be even less important than the coolant temperature (less boring though). The stock boost gauge doesn't show absolute numbers of pressure rather than a % of max pressure. And max pressure fluctuates in the twincharged engines. So it's more like a health monitor if anything.
Anyway, i've seen a modified cluster somewhere sometime, but i'm suspecting that the guy just used the clocks and front fascia from the GTI cluster but kept the PCBs from the GT cluster, which would mean wrong speedometer scaling, nothing extreme though. But i don't feel comfortable with that so i'll leave things be for now.
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Sweet, did you have the stock boost gauge installed from the Golf GT cluster, or was it a regular cluster swap?
hellow my friend chris..my name is dimitris and im from greece!
I have a question!
what program did you do and cable read/write immo data?
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hellow my friend chris..my name is dimitris and im from greece!
I have a question!
what program did you do and cable read/write immo data?
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Hey there, i used vag k+ can commander. Full versions 1.4, 2.5 or 3.6 should work for you as long as you have the appropriate cable. Win XP is advised but Win 7 worked fine for me. Happy swapping.
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Hey there, i used vag k+ can commander. Full versions 1.4, 2.5 or 3.6 should work for you as long as you have the appropriate cable. Win XP is advised but Win 7 worked fine for me. Happy swapping.
I bought this and it does not work in my car
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-Interface-VAG-K-CAN-Commander-Full-1-4-OBD-OBDII-2-/150622636631?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item2311cf0a57
my car is golf 5 tsi 8/2007
my tacho 1K0920863A new tacho 1K0920873A
WHAT IS THE CORRECT SOFTWARE IN LOW PRICE to work in my car PROPERLY?
THANKS!!
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Its trial and error with the chinese versions. Does yours have the Read/Write immo function? If not, you got the wrong software.
What error are you getting and at what point? The right version should work for up to 2006 models, but 2007 onwards is less likely cause the newer clusters used a different coding. I think Eddie-nl has got the right software for this but he's in England afaik.
I've heard about vagtacho and vagdashcom performing similar functions, never used them though.
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Hey there, i used vag k+ can commander. Full versions 1.4, 2.5 or 3.6 should work for you as long as you have the appropriate cable. Win XP is advised but Win 7 worked fine for me. Happy swapping.
I bought this and it does not work in my car
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-Interface-VAG-K-CAN-Commander-Full-1-4-OBD-OBDII-2-/150622636631?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item2311cf0a57
my car is golf 5 tsi 8/2007
my tacho 1K0920863A new tacho 1K0920873A
WHAT IS THE CORRECT SOFTWARE IN LOW PRICE to work in my car PROPERLY?
THANKS!!
That won't work on your car, only up to 2006. Only genuine works with your car, ££££.
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Hey there, i used vag k+ can commander. Full versions 1.4, 2.5 or 3.6 should work for you as long as you have the appropriate cable. Win XP is advised but Win 7 worked fine for me. Happy swapping.
I bought this and it does not work in my car
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-Interface-VAG-K-CAN-Commander-Full-1-4-OBD-OBDII-2-/150622636631?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item2311cf0a57
my car is golf 5 tsi 8/2007
my tacho 1K0920863A new tacho 1K0920873A
WHAT IS THE CORRECT SOFTWARE IN LOW PRICE to work in my car PROPERLY?
THANKS!!
cheap copy won't work with that
RSM on here is in Greece and can help you
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Thank you all for quick reply!
the 1.4 software not work in the car my choice read/write.
my cluster have chip MIRCONAS cdc 3797G C1 5622F
If you open a panel will look through two plaques
one has indicators kilometers and is empty
and another small on the back is the software of immo.
I want something cheap because you will make a time in my own car..HELP MEE FRIENDS!!
If we keep our own plate with the software and only change this indicators might happen Successfull;
We show photos of my own to see small and large plaque..
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg41.imageshack.us%2Fimg41%2F4489%2F1ft6.jpg&hash=bd3dc11aaf62314cf63802ce0ca243f0a17f931f) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/41/1ft6.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg707.imageshack.us%2Fimg707%2F382%2Fzdt3.jpg&hash=ec26fc2f40e710a9ea182eb454dd346a7f8a62b7) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/707/zdt3.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg138.imageshack.us%2Fimg138%2F2852%2Fgj8c.jpg&hash=32c11a3a4e06fa3e07421501b0a97763e1d9e32f) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/138/gj8c.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
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no, it won't work
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then what is the right software to work on my car?
have a shop; You can buy from you the right software and cable
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The genuine vag commander kit is crazy expensive. Somewhere in the 4 digits area if memory serves. It's not worth it if you plan to only use it a couple of times.
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somebody clonic ultimately can not work; and from being a cheap solution which to work; @chris how software WORKED;
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I agree:
othile clonic ekugcineni akakwazi ngomsebenzi; kanti kusuka ekubeni isixazululo eshibhile ukusebenza kuyo; @ chris indlela software wasebenza;
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I agree:
othile clonic ekugcineni akakwazi ngomsebenzi; kanti kusuka ekubeni isixazululo eshibhile ukusebenza kuyo; @ chris indlela software wasebenza;
WRITE english
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Yeah, my thoughts exactly. :laugh:
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nothing????????????????
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This clock swap is very easy but not with less than version 21 (genuine avdi) or similar tools. Cheapo eBay tools are bad news. I repaired a dash from a 2009 a3 today that was read with super vag. The dash was dead.
Where abouts are you Chris?
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The swap is pretty easy indeed granted you have the right equipment. I used 2006 clocks that matched mine and were also programmable with cloned software. What i haven't figured out is how to tweak EEPROM in order to make the coolant temp controller display boost. That said i've also got my eye on a 2008 cluster which won't be accessible by my current software. In case i got it, i'd need some help but i'm located in Greece, so unless you travel a lot, it's not going to work :laugh:. Dimitris is the one that needs help at the moment, but he's just as far.
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The swap is pretty easy indeed granted you have the right equipment. I used 2006 clocks that matched mine and were also programmable with cloned software. What i haven't figured out is how to tweak EEPROM in order to make the coolant temp controller display boost. That said i've also got my eye on a 2008 cluster which won't be accessible by my current software. In case i got it, i'd need some help but i'm located in Greece, so unless you travel a lot, it's not going to work :laugh:. Dimitris is the one that needs help at the moment, but he's just as far.
Thanks from the reply
What software WORKED you;commander 5.5?5.1?
chris You're from GREECE?
im greece
not understand not speak good English!
chris my mail : grigorosmb@hotmail.com
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Not much progress here's a shot of the two EEPROMs side by side in a hex editor. There are too many differences to start taking shots in the dark.. :laugh: Anyone feeling lucky?
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg546.imageshack.us%2Fimg546%2F7753%2Ff2qt.png&hash=c6ef1594f667040b5688c353a8a4b2321429c125)
This function is most likely to be coded in the flash memory, not the eeprom!
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This function is most likely to be coded in the flash memory, not the eeprom!
That's a good hint right there, thanks. The flash memory file is 512KB which makes it the largest file in the cluster, way larger than all the rest combined. Probably also the most complicated to work with. :rolleye:
I guess that was the final nail in the coffin for the boost gauge project. Assuming that clock assignment and staging are included in this file, along with other stuff, overwriting with the GT's ROM file will make the cluster display wrong km/h if it even works in the first place. The only thing i'd have to do is locate the part that controls the boost gauge in a 512kb file and then edit the GTI file accordingly.. piece of cake :jumpmove:
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Hey guys ,i'm new over here ,i have a 2004 mk5 1.6 fsi i'm searching for a maxidot for my car,not find anything ,i've understand that i need the a specific cluster fabricated before 31-05-2006. is that correct ? i've found this information on a other forum.
cheers !
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yes that will work
Hi there Eddie,
My '06 GTi with midline cluster's display is totally gone and I thought I might as well do a highland cluster retrofit. I am currently looking at this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222160209310?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT not sure if it's gonna work. My dealer said I have to get a particular cluster for my car and I'm sure that's gonna cost a lot! Your reply is much appreciated! Cheers.
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Thats expensive! You can get them for around £150 supplied and fitted. I have a set if you need one
Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk
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@Chris01 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=8881) any progress on the epprom for the boost controller instead of the temp?
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Can someone please post a BIN dump of their instrument cluster. I used VDO editor to do the MK6 temperature gauge as a boost gauge successfully, so I wanted to visually see if I have the same option for the MK5 cluster as well.