MK5 Golf GTI
General => Random Chat => Topic started by: berg on November 11, 2013, 10:11:22 pm
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Been browsing through these on the net and you can get a mint RS4 Avant on a 57 plate for £21495 but some M3's on an 08 plate starting at £18450.
Think article in Evo about 2 months ago was about cars that were either going to appreciate or bottom out in value and the RS4 was in list as not going to depreciate much further and M3 although a great car might continue to depreciate as the new model will just be better.
Just seems a bit mad that you can get a very nice 4.0 M3 for less than 20k... 50% off sale!
Anyway am not sure what the point is I am trying to get across here other than its hard to look at some other cars when you see these two in the above bracket but I guess the list price is only half the story with these two....
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Wait until you get a BMW invoice it starts "once upon a time" and every bill reads like a best seller!
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Still rather the M3. And they were way more than £40k new.
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RS4 all day, at least you can use the power, albeit deleted due to choking - the M3 is daft in the UK wet weather/winter... had an E46 all over the place yesterday, LOL!
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M3 for me and I want to own a B7 RS4 one day as well, current market is in favour of the E92 though it seems.
And an E92 M3 on four winter tyres would be perfectly capable, and: fun.
No doubt about it.
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No chance. Winters aren't THAT good. Pepsi challenge an RS4 vs M3 on UK roads now... the M3 driver would have to be VERY talented to keep up.
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Oh - definitely not, you'll be stuck in slush and everything :grin:
There's plenty of evidence to suggest a car like an M3 is absolutely fine in the UK on winter tyres. Quattro isn't the only savior.
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Winters on both cars obviously.
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No chance. Winters aren't THAT good. Pepsi challenge an RS4 vs M3 on UK roads now... the M3 driver would have to be VERY talented to keep up.
4WD would be more capable but a decent set of winters should stop you getting stranded in the M3.
A worn suspension and budget tyres or run flats will make matters worse.
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Id take the M3.
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I really cant decide, I think I would have to drive both.
So then I think ahhhh the safe option a 3.0 v6 S4!
But then you look at the Q car styling and its a bit mehhhhh
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M3s depreciation is simply down to numbers, they sold a hell of a lot if them, and with good reason.
Both special in their own right, I'd find it hard to choose. M3 is a technically better car, an RS4 Avant however is a great all-rounder. Both are rotten on spares and consumables.
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Both of these are 2 of the cars I am thinking of buying next
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Both of these are 2 of the cars I am thinking of buying next
ahhhh me too :star: but I am scared! Can I afford the fuel? Do i need to sell a bollock to pay for new brakes and tyres?
Am also looking at S4 and 335i, and then further down the line are Focus ST estate and Octavia vrs estate
Anyway what are your thoughts Matt? M3 looks like a hell of a lot of car for the money but the RS4 avant just looks :sick: in the right colour combo and presumably will have more cubic footage of load capacity? (off to check parkers site)
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Both of these are 2 of the cars I am thinking of buying next
ahhhh me too :star: but I am scared! Can I afford the fuel? Do i need to sell a bollock to pay for new brakes and tyres?
Am also looking at S4 and 335i, and then further down the line are Focus ST estate and Octavia vrs estate
Anyway what are your thoughts Matt? M3 looks like a hell of a lot of car for the money but the RS4 avant just looks :sick: in the right colour combo and presumably will have more cubic footage of load capacity? (off to check parkers site)
Both models will suffer from the 'RS' and 'M' Tax on parts and servicing I suspect. The 335i would be the more sensible option, Manuals are rare.
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I also looked at a e90 m3 saloon dct bk in the summer & nearly brought one but thinking of fuel bills & servicing costs will kill me so brought a golfR instead...my mate has a 335i & they are rapid
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I also looked at a e90 m3 saloon dct bk in the summer & nearly brought one but thinking of fuel bills & servicing costs will kill me so brought a golfR instead...my mate has a 335i & they are rapid
is the 335i stock? Stage 1 will be close to M3 performance I guess with Stage 2 quicker as far more torque?
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I've driven both, the M3 at great length, I prefer the RS4.
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I also looked at a e90 m3 saloon dct bk in the summer & nearly brought one but thinking of fuel bills & servicing costs will kill me so brought a golfR instead...my mate has a 335i & they are rapid
is the 335i stock? Stage 1 will be close to M3 performance I guess with Stage 2 quicker as far more torque?
It's a stg1+ on Cobb software & alpina transmission software too
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A 335i should average late 20s, an M3 low 20s.
Running costs of a 335i aren't too steep at all, 20k servicing, few hundred for discs and pads, tyres are reasonably common sizes. A later N55 engine'd one won't be a worry, as they've ironed out the N54's failings.
They are indeed very fast once played with, handle better than most others in class, but obviously not like an M3 and it has no diff.
Depreciation does hurt them, I'd look carefully at whether a dearer to run M3 may work out the same in the long run as its price bottoms out.
Maybe watch the episode of TopGear again with the AMG/RS4/M3.
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20k between oil changes seems a bit long. I think this has changed for the F series.
There are some shabby looking E90's for sale...
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A 335i should average late 20s, an M3 low 20s.
Running costs of a 335i aren't too steep at all, 20k servicing, few hundred for discs and pads, tyres are reasonably common sizes. A later N55 engine'd one won't be a worry, as they've ironed out the N54's failings.
They are indeed very fast once played with, handle better than most others in class, but obviously not like an M3 and it has no diff.
Depreciation does hurt them, I'd look carefully at whether a dearer to run M3 may work out the same in the long run as its price bottoms out.
Maybe watch the episode of TopGear again with the AMG/RS4/M3.
I owned a 335i for 12 months and sold it for my third gti, this time an edition 30 due to the mileage I was covering I needed something more sensible.
Real world economy was 21mpg day to day 2,500 miles a month it stings! And if I reset it on a run I could squeeze 26mpg on the motorway. The auto box was amazing, much better than the VW dsg in the edition 30. Servicing costs were 'reasonable' for a premium car (around £300 for filter and oil from BMW) and tyres were £350 a corner. I sold it to release funds and bought a golf for half the value, is the BMW double the car and double the fun of the golf? HELL NO! Still it's a beautiful car!
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Like the 335i, very smart and classy. But £350 a corner for tyres, ouchhh. :grin:
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What on earth were you doing wrong?
My old 135i did a solid 28-30 on average and it's tyres were 130 front 160 rear for 18" GY A2s, runflats ruin them. You don't need to service it at a dealer either.
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28-30, that's impressive. I suppose I didn't really care/look at mpg that often and just enjoyed the power most of the time, 70mph + is addictive!
Mine were 19's, can't remember what size but they were eagle f1's
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What on earth were you doing wrong?
My old 135i did a solid 28-30 on average and it's tyres were 130 front 160 rear for 18" GY A2s, runflats ruin them. You don't need to service it at a dealer either.
Doesn't sound unrealistic...I looked into an N54 335i and the feedback was expect an average of around 26 mpg. So if one uses the power low 20's is expected.
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Like the 335i, very smart and classy. But £350 a corner for tyres, ouchhh. :grin:
Expensive Run Flats can be deleted.
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I've driven both, the M3 at great length, I prefer the RS4.
can you say what you liked more about the RS4?
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What on earth were you doing wrong?
My old 135i did a solid 28-30 on average and it's tyres were 130 front 160 rear for 18" GY A2s, runflats ruin them. You don't need to service it at a dealer either.
Doesn't sound unrealistic...I looked into an N54 335i and the feedback was expect an average of around 26 mpg. So if one uses the power low 20's is expected.
Im getting 26 out of my Eddie at mo
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What on earth were you doing wrong?
My old 135i did a solid 28-30 on average and it's tyres were 130 front 160 rear for 18" GY A2s, runflats ruin them. You don't need to service it at a dealer either.
For some reason... BMW drivers seem to like spunking stupid money on runflats, no matter what you tell them about ride quality and non RF tyre options.
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£350 a corner!!!! :signLOL: Jesus mate, where did you take it for new rubber, BMW? :confused:
Like Mike says, tyres and servicing can be done for a sh*te sight less than that. I only pay £110 for fronts and £130 for rears on my 135i albeit 18's mind. Sounds like you liked the loud pedal too judging by your mpg figure.. :wink:
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What size tyres?
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my mate runs 265 & 235 in 19"s & get them from camskill for around £900 for all four corners
Ps2s...he ditched the run flats as soon as he got the car..
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What size tyres?
I think a 3 series is 225/40 and 255/35 in 18s. Mine runs 225/245 in Supersports at £128/163 looking at Camskills site as an example.
I had Bridgestone runflats on the old car when it arrived. They were frankly sh*t scary in the cold and wet, and probably why people think RWD is dangerous.
As I'm sure Beddie will testify, mine in the pouring rain around Oulton last week was completely unphased & fantastic.
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Yer my 3 series is 255/35/18.
Been quoted £872 for 4 run flats.
gonna ditch them I think, the ride isnt brilliant.
I know this ia a golf forum lol, but seeing as theres a few bmw owners on here, has anyone forked out for winter tyres?
Ive been quoted £550 for 4 kumos tyres.
Anyone have any advice?! Just want to know whether its worth it or should I preapre to leave it on the drive. Bearing in mind I live on a hill and my drive to work is mainly un gritted roads!
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Personally I grudge the tax for these cars, despite the money I generally spend on cars a £ 200 tax premium is really a drop in the ocean, but It really would feel like a swift boot to the baws for me !
I'm feeling drawn to the CSL at the moment cheap tax and last time I looked it was the second fastest m car round the ring.
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Mines a 320hp 3.0 6 turbo, with £220 road tax. I think that's pretty low considering!!
Rachel, I've got winters and despite what people say, they make the car perfectly usable in the snow. Everyone in Europe doesn't pack their BMW/Merc up for the winter, they just get the right tyres and get on with it.
Continentals always come highest in tests, by some margin. Have a look and see how those Khumos fare, but I'm sure they'll be fine.
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My 330D is still on Run Flats and I dont mind them tbh, had the car since February and drove to the Austrian Alps in April, the only snow on the roads was up the mountain roads, I was fully laden with luggage and 4 up and had had the sense to make sure that the "Snow Socks" were the last thing packed, they only went on for the last 3 miles and were absolutely fine. Every BMW I saw out there was wearing Winter tyres and they were overtaking me going up the mountain with snow on the road :happy2:
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Did I read somewhere it's illegal (with hefty fines) for wearing summer boots in the winter on the continent?
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Yep. Das Germans will lynch you for being on summers. I'll bet their winter accident rates are significantly lower than ours too, even with them having a far harsher climate.
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Mines a 320hp 3.0 6 turbo, with £220 road tax. I think that's pretty low considering!!
Rachel, I've got winters and despite what people say, they make the car perfectly usable in the snow. Everyone in Europe doesn't pack their BMW/Merc up for the winter, they just get the right tyres and get on with it.
Continentals always come highest in tests, by some margin. Have a look and see how those Khumos fare, but I'm sure they'll be fine.
whats the tax on a 335i? A nice one up for sale on SSC website - saloon - 58 reg - £18995 - cant get a good, late RS4 avant or S4 for that price but can get an M3 for that price!
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Seems very strong money?
Crossover year, so either J or I, I think. Single N55 or twin turbo N54 engine?
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Mines a 320hp 3.0 6 turbo, with £220 road tax. I think that's pretty low considering!!
Rachel, I've got winters and despite what people say, they make the car perfectly usable in the snow. Everyone in Europe doesn't pack their BMW/Merc up for the winter, they just get the right tyres and get on with it.
Continentals always come highest in tests, by some margin. Have a look and see how those Khumos fare, but I'm sure they'll be fine.
whats the tax on a 335i? A nice one up for sale on SSC website - saloon - 58 reg - £18995 - cant get a good, late RS4 avant or S4 for that price but can get an M3 for that price!
335i tax is around £265 a year, not bad considering!
My rims were 19's, big and wide! And yes i'm afraid they were £350 a corner from BMW. A common problem on 3 series with 19's is cracked rear rims. I was in a situatiion where BOTH my rears had hairline cracks and needed replacing. BMW agreed to pay for new rims but the tyres were undriveable and I had no choice to pay for new rims :sick:
If i was buying one again with 19's i'd have the wheels off and check for hairline cracks because you have to fight tooth and nail for BMW to change them under warranty.
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£350 a corner!!!! :signLOL: Jesus mate, where did you take it for new rubber BMW? :confused:
Like Mike says, tyres and servicing can be done for a sh*te sight less than that. I only pay £110 for fronts and £130 for rears on my 135i albeit 18's mind. Sounds like you liked the loud pedal too judging by your mpg figure.. :wink:
Your correct, it was flat out most of the time :evilgrin:
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Seems very strong money?
Crossover year, so either J or I, I think. Single N55 or twin turbo N54 engine?
dunno will look into it
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Mines a 320hp 3.0 6 turbo, with £220 road tax. I think that's pretty low considering!!
Rachel, I've got winters and despite what people say, they make the car perfectly usable in the snow. Everyone in Europe doesn't pack their BMW/Merc up for the winter, they just get the right tyres and get on with it.
Continentals always come highest in tests, by some margin. Have a look and see how those Khumos fare, but I'm sure they'll be fine.
This.
I read those Bridgestone's don't have a good reputation. Weren't the cracks associated with the Run Flats too?
As for the VED, the system doesn't really reflect who might pollute the most. 'Steve the Salesman' in his Rep-Mobile doing 30k might pollute more than a 335i doing 12k...
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Thanks for the repliea guys.
Just my luck, the khumos have sold out!
so now going to be £720 on falkens (after a £300 discount lol).
If im getting round though I suppose money's well spent!
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What sizes are you after?
www.oponeo.co.uk (http://www.oponeo.co.uk) have some great offers at the moment.
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Mines a 320hp 3.0 6 turbo.........
Stopped reading there. Nodded and thought about my M135i in the garage. :notworthy:
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What sizes are you after?
www.oponeo.co.uk (http://www.oponeo.co.uk) have some great offers at the moment.
thankyou soo much! Has definetly saved me a fair bit. Thanks :happy2:
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No problems!
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If you're tempted by the M3 e90, then make sure (if possible) you test drive it back to back with the M135i ...
I know which one left the best impression on me.
...terrible thing - buyers remorse
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If you're tempted by the M3 e90, then make sure (if possible) you test drive it back to back with the M135i ...
I know which one left the best impression on me.
...terrible thing - buyers remorse
Hi Nige,have a new project car yet?
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Spot the hint.... :grin:
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I averaged 16 ish MPG in my RS4, only getting 21 in the RS3, however most of its driving is town and school run with my wife :happy2:
The RS4 was a phenomenal car, very competent in all areas's, except economy. Ive only driven an M3 round Brands, which was nice, but the RS always felt more special.
I think I just like the safety and usability of 4wd, without get a 4x4 (if that makes sense). My Kombi is 4 motion :happy2:
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I averaged 16 ish MPG in my RS4, only getting 21 in the RS3, however most of its driving is town and school run with my wife :happy2:
The RS4 was a phenomenal car, very competent in all areas's, except economy. Ive only driven an M3 round Brands, which was nice, but the RS always felt more special.
I think I just like the safety and usability of 4wd, without get a 4x4 (if that makes sense). My Kombi is 4 motion :happy2:
16! :scared: was hoping 20 would be achievable unless caning it :sad1:
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Was doing 18-22 average in the rs4 cab I had for a while. As above a competent all rounder, engine sounded nice, but it didn't exactly blow my socks off.
From a purely performance and fun point of view I preferred my stage 2 plus K04 car, as imho it was a more involving drive and I preferred the explosive power delivery.
You will find a lot of 2.0tfsi drivers who make the jump to the m3/rs4 but will always come back to the humble hothatch 12-24 months later. Usually that or moving on to a Porsche lol.
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Turbos and torque have ruined people's perception of a good engine, sadly.
Where a 2.0TFSI is starting to tail off from 6k, these N/A V8s are only just getting going. People aren't prepared to wring a car's neck to see the best of it.
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Turbos and torque have ruined people's perception of a good engine, sadly.
Where a 2.0TFSI is starting to tail off from 6k, these N/A V8s are only just getting going. People aren't prepared to wring a car's neck to see the best of it.
roads are so busy though guess is hard to stretch the legs of a high revving n/a engine.
from my own point of view have never driven one so want to experience one whilst still can
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Turbos and torque have ruined people's perception of a good engine, sadly.
Where a 2.0TFSI is starting to tail off from 6k, these N/A V8s are only just getting going. People aren't prepared to wring a car's neck to see the best of it.
I dunno, I prefer a good NA engine to the point I think the twin turbo gallardo and r8 v10 conversions spoil the character of the car.
The trouble I think with the rs4 and E92 m3 is that they are just too heavy IMO for the power output and dulls the engine/experience. Only the C63 AMG has got the balance right, that v8 has the necessary grunt for the lard it's gotta shift.
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Yep, those conversions don't interest me in the slightest. Much the same as I'd take a GT3 over a Turbo any day of the week.
I think on some ways you're right:
The RS4 is superb in the slower stuff but its weight and trans loss hurt it elsewhere.
The M3 has such a good chassis, you lose the sensation of speed in it a bit.
The C63 is a bit on the edge of lunacy, so the noise and willingness to light its back end up add to the occasion.
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Yep, those conversions don't interest me in the slightest. Much the same as I'd take a GT3 over a Turbo any day of the week.
I think on some ways you're right:
The RS4 is superb in the slower stuff but its weight and trans loss hurt it elsewhere.
The M3 has such a good chassis, you lose the sensation of speed in it a bit.
The C63 is a bit on the edge of lunacy, so the noise and willingness to light its back end up add to the occasion.
so if you were going to get a performance estate which would you go for out of these three - rs4 avant, 335i touring or s4 3.0v6 avant?
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Ive changed my mind.... i would get the RS4 avant. Saw one today in dark grey... :love:
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I'd probably scratch that RS4 itch. But shop very carefully.
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Its a nice itch to scratch :wink:
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Brothers work colleague has a tuned RS6 4F, I've not been in it, but Bro reports it's insane... this would suggest it probably is:
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Brothers work colleague has a tuned RS6 4F, I've not been in it, but Bro reports it's insane... this would suggest it probably is:
F@@kinghell...that Audi is rapid man
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Haha, yeah, love the 4.4V8 Twin Turbo 550HP Alipna though (so rare).. even though it got seriously tramped here.
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I'd probably scratch that RS4 itch. But shop very carefully.
n
right, so one that has no issues with the DSC, is not coked up, does not need a new clutch, brakes or tyres and a full service history - anything else :rolleye:
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Yeah get a e63 estate instead lol?
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How much is a de-coke about £400, every 50k miles, not something to put you off the RS4 imho.
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How much is a de-coke about £400, every 50k miles, not something to put you off the RS4 imho.
thats if it need doing that often, surely our Gti engines would need it also wouldn't they? I suppose you just srick a bore scope down to see the extent of any carbon build up and then go from there?
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Turbos cars don't lose as much power from coked valves as NA cars
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For the initial money (high specification), performance and running costs, I really cannot say anything bad about my 335i................
My ED30 was tremendous value at £12500 bought 3 years ago, but I wouldnt by a newer MK6 ED35 or R over the beemer. In day to day driving the torque more than makes up for the 100 less horses the M3 offers also and then there is always a remap if you want it....
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^^^^ As much as I agree with what you're saying about the 335i, its a stunning car for the money, it is neither an M car or RS. They will ultimately feel that more special.
(Nice looking 335i by the way :happy2:)
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^^^^ As much as I agree with what you're saying about the 335i, its a stunning car for the money, it is neither an M car or RS. They will ultimately feel that more special.
(Nice looking 335i by the way :happy2:)
Yup that seems to be the general consensus and also that the 335i is better to drive than the S4. I suppose a stg 2 335i should see an M3 off on the straight but would the chassis still be left wanting on the twisties/track? Had a look again at all 4 of the above mentioned cars 335i best value, nice M3's and RS4 avants are roughly the same money and then nice s4 avants are about £3k more.
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^^^^ As much as I agree with what you're saying about the 335i, its a stunning car for the money, it is neither an M car or RS. They will ultimately feel that more special.
(Nice looking 335i by the way :happy2:)
Yup that seems to be the general consensus and also that the 335i is better to drive than the S4. I suppose a stg 2 335i should see an M3 off on the straight but would the chassis still be left wanting on the twisties/track? Had a look again at all 4 of the above mentioned cars 335i best value, nice M3's and RS4 avants are roughly the same money and then nice s4 avants are about £3k more.
TOTALLY agree with all of that. The key thing is though you can buy a 335i knowing that you arent going to have supercar tag running costs. And you can mod it for £3k to have 95% of the performance and handling of a M3 if you wish.
I almost bought an M3 but despite earning ok money now I still don't want to be splashing out $$$$$ every year maintaining it and filling it up... :laugh:
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A 335i is still a fine handling car, certainly the best in its class of that era.
You've obviously got to weigh up head over heart. Hating a car because it isn't an M3/RS4 or hating an M3/RS4 because to some it can be crippling to run.
If you accept something for what it is, then you'll enjoy any.
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One thing that is putting me off getting a Beemer is I have no idea where I will take it for servicing? Dont mind driving up to Sedox for a map but not going up there for all servicing and dont know anyone in the North West area who is a BMW specialist? Whereas with VAG got Pipewerx in walking distance, BCS and ADS 20 minutes drive away.
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Votex in Congleton did a fine job with my old 135i.
Lohan surely have the requisite kit/skills too?
Google seems to think there's a few autotecnik for example
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Votex in Congleton did a fine job with my old 135i.
Lohan surely have the requisite kit/skills too?
Google seems to think there's a few autotecnik for example
And of course GNJ is now running a 335i although again he is about 40 min drive away