MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Hootz on November 13, 2013, 12:03:17 pm
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Guys
I have a few questions, and am after a bit of advice really...hope you can help.
My Ed30 is stage 1 which I am quite content with at the moment. I want to sort the handling/suspension set up before moving on to stage 2+.
The car will be used on track, but is also my daily, and needs to be good for some B-road bashing.
I have the following on my list, but I am keen to get an understanding of the 'best' order to do these things, and laso the best products to go for.
ARBs: Probably going to just do the rear to begin with. Autotech (25mm) or APR (really thick) any advice?
Coils: Ultimate choice would be the Bilstein B16 PSS10s, but at c£1450, can I really justify these? I've heard that KW quality isn't great, but keen to hear of any other that would suit road and track for around the £1000-1500 mark. GAZ? KW V2s? Any others?
WALK/Supepro Control Arms: Do I go for WALK/SALK, or do I go the whole hog and get the alloy control arms too? Advantages? Noticeable difference between the two?
Other than the above and an LSD is there anything else I should be considering doing?
Any advice would be great chaps...and chappesses.
Hootz
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I'd get the ARBS and SALK and Mounts done first. Huge difference. Then Coils.
Get your ARB (or ARB's) from Alex, he's just started running a GB for H&R stuff. He's also got a cracking price on the H&R Monotube Coilovers.......
~~ Clicky here ~~ (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,75129.0.html)
I'd go for the Superpro ALK and front wishbone bushes along with engine mounts, at least the lower engine mount. Look at Vibra-Technics or THS.
Chuck on some light weight wheels, such as OZ or Team Dynamics.
Also have a look at the Unibrace products, they do 3 braces/brackets. Apparently they make a noticeable difference.
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So....just the Superpro ALK and the bushes, not the alloy wisbones as well? Not necessary?
Anyone got the H&R ARBs to comment? I've heard non-hollow ones are super-heavy, and is 24mm going to make a noticeable difference over the 20.7mm standard rear ARB?
I'm keen to do the cheaper bits first and see how it goes. Are H&R monotubes really a fast road/track orientated coilover, or more of a street coilover for lows?
I just missed out on the Revo engine mounts that were for sale on here recently, keen to do these too.
Like the look and idea of the unibraces too....thanks for the reply.
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Unless you already have them budget for the best road/track tyres first,mich ss, 888's or yokys, all other changes are pretty pointless unless decent rubber is used.
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It's all down to cost at the end of the day I think?
I'd go with fully Polybushing the whole car. Definitely go for ARB's too, 28 front and 24 rear is meant to be a really good set up.
As for suspension, Gaz are really good, I know they can build you pretty custom stuff with custom spring rates etc, they even offer external res stuff too and I don't think it's proper expensive. Deffo one to consider.
Engine mounts would help and adjustable top mounts too then obviously a proper set up.
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Sizes of ARBs is redundant.
Some are solid, some are hollow, some alloy, some steel, so a 28mm hollow bar made from steel will behave very differently to a 28mm solid bar of alloy.
I had Whiteline F&R ARBs, they were 3 way adjustable. With the fronts on Soft and the rears on Medium is was VERY tail happy.
28mm rear bars would be a death wish for the inexperienced.
I'd buy some AP coilovers, fully powerflex the whole car, WALK kit, super pro ball joints... there's going to be little difference between a set of decent coilovers like KW V1 or APs, and Bilstien whatevers at £150500505005
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Hi mate,had F&R H&R arbs & springs combo from the Aps groupbuy for my ed30...I'm so impressed that I did the same to my golfR....
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Thanks for the replies. It does come down to cash at the end of the day. It is 90% daily driver with the occasional track day.
Is it worth considering Bilstein B14s instead? Or a higher end spring and damper combo?
I think i'll jump on the GB for the H&R ARBs, get SALK and either Spring and Dampers of Coils. Then add some lightweight wheel with Yoko AD08s for summer rubber.
Just need to decide on these darn coils!
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Or you could go for billy B12 kit ,with the money you save over decent coilovers would pay for arb and walk.
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I've set my car with a lot of advice from Jim at JKM. He is well regarded as both a driver and a mechanic and I've got mine configured with the hardware you'll see in my signature. I still plan on light weight wheels as per earlier post, but I've found some Federal track tyres which seem to be OK. Not as good the usual suspects by a small margin, but massively cheaper and far better than road tyres. http://www.camskill.co.uk/m118b0s669p64176/Federal_Tyres_Trackday_Track_Day_Federal_595RSR_Federal_595_RSR_-_225_40_R18_88W_TL_ (http://www.camskill.co.uk/m118b0s669p64176/Federal_Tyres_Trackday_Track_Day_Federal_595RSR_Federal_595_RSR_-_225_40_R18_88W_TL_)
17"s: http://www.camskill.co.uk/m117b0s665p64169/Federal_Tyres_Trackday_Track_Day_Federal_595RSR_Federal_595_RSR_-_225_45_R17_94W_XL_TL_ (http://www.camskill.co.uk/m117b0s665p64169/Federal_Tyres_Trackday_Track_Day_Federal_595RSR_Federal_595_RSR_-_225_45_R17_94W_XL_TL_)
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I've set my car with a lot of advice from Jim at JKM. He is well regarded as both a driver and a mechanic and I've got mine configured with the hardware you'll see in my signature. I still plan on light weight wheels as per earlier post, but I've found some Federal track tyres which seem to be OK. Not as good the usual suspects by a small margin, but massively cheaper and far better than road tyres. http://www.camskill.co.uk/m118b0s669p64176/Federal_Tyres_Trackday_Track_Day_Federal_595RSR_Federal_595_RSR_-_225_40_R18_88W_TL_ (http://www.camskill.co.uk/m118b0s669p64176/Federal_Tyres_Trackday_Track_Day_Federal_595RSR_Federal_595_RSR_-_225_40_R18_88W_TL_)
How do you rate the B12 kit?
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I'm finding my way with the car still on track, but I have track days under my belt from both Goodwood and Castle Combe. The car is better than I am if I'm honest and I'd like to think I have some idea of what's going on, I'm not the slowest round a track. It drives far far better than it did as standard and if driven correctly rather than in a ham-fisted manner you'll find the capability high, I'm a novice and as I said, it's better than I am. I only plan on 4/6 track days a year so I didn't want to go too far the other way. I will say that a high quality set of coilovers designed for race use that have been set with corner weighting etc and all the other appropriate hardware will be hard to be beat if you're on track frequently.
Driven in a regular manner I would say it's a noticeably firmer ride than stock but not hard. Stock suspension is hard by comparison and has poor control but suits most people most of the time. With the B12 kit you are still aware of imperfections but they are well controlled. You will feel everything, but in a fully controlled and communicative way. You will get down the road quicker and more confidently I guarantee you that. I shan't talk about what I can do if I choose for fear of starting a road safety debate but it is most definitely not the same car now.
Most dramatic change comes in wet weather. Turning traction control off and getting the diff to do it's thing is reveals a now remarkable drive. Again, you can (if you choose) do things that were previously not possible.
Hard suspension can sometimes give the impression of 'sports handling' particularly to the car buying masses and it's in VW's best business interests not to exclude those who may have been customers by focusing the car too much the other way. The GTI has a reputation of a capable all rounder and fortunately the Mk5 has a great chassis that's easy to sharpen up for the likes of us! :party:
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Thanks for all the responses chaps.
Still not sure whether to snap up the H&R 28/24 kit (solid bars) or go for the lighter Autotech kit. I see Hurdy had Autotech on his awesome Ed30 and this is swaying me towars Autotech, despite them being slightly more £££s.
Mounts and SALK will definitely be done, going to get those ordered this week. No one has managed to answer if I should get the alloy TT type wishbones too, so I'll probably just not...save some money.
Coils Vs B12 kit or similar...still not sure. Considering some KW V2s now...the car will eventually become a track toy/weekend blast around when it's price depreciates enough....I'll get something boring and frugal as a DD.
If anyone has any other thoughts to add, they would again be greatly appreciated.
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^^^^ I have the Autotech on mine and am more than impressed. If you get that one I'd throw away the bushes and brackets supplied with it and get the Super bracket/bush kit. Not heard anything good about Autotech bushes so even before I had put mine put on I bought the Superpro bracket/bush kit, although that will add another £40 an ARB.
TBH for the price Alex is doing the H&R's for I'd get those if I were you.
Loads of peeps have run (and still do) the TT (or Cupra) Wishbones, I'm sure someone with them on will comment. A fair few threads on here, use "Search".
Superpro also do a Control Arm, ALK with bushes kit.....
~~ Clicky here ~~ (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-Golf-Mk5-Alloy-Front-Control-Arm-Wishbone-Bush-Kit-SuperPro-Supaloy-/231079759555pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Model%3AGolf%7CPlat_Gen%3AMK+V&hash=item35cd6d4ec3)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1049.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs399%2Fmcaborn%2F1c5b662006a64c440335a45757a448d6_zpsf72da58e.jpg&hash=2545c84e1cdb4392aba3af37b525339f9e920a8d)
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^^^^ I have the Autotech on mine and am more than impressed. If you get that one I'd throw away the bushes and brackets supplied with it and get the Super bracket/bush kit. Not heard anything good about Autotech bushes so even before I had put mine put on I bought the Superpro bracket/bush kit, although that will add another £40 an ARB.
TBH for the price Alex is doing the H&R's for I'd get those if I were you.
Loads of peeps have run (and still do) the TT (or Cupra) Wishbones, I'm sure someone with them on will comment. A fair few threads on here, use "Search".
Superpro also do a Control Arm, ALK with bushes kit.....
This is the kit I was on about....just not sure it's worth the extra c£300 over just the SALK.
~~ Clicky here ~~ (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-Golf-Mk5-Alloy-Front-Control-Arm-Wishbone-Bush-Kit-SuperPro-Supaloy-/231079759555pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Model%3AGolf%7CPlat_Gen%3AMK+V&hash=item35cd6d4ec3)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1049.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs399%2Fmcaborn%2F1c5b662006a64c440335a45757a448d6_zpsf72da58e.jpg&hash=2545c84e1cdb4392aba3af37b525339f9e920a8d)
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I've had a mk5 gti, a vRS and another vRS - all with various chassis mods.
I've run: eibach, koni, weitec, bilstein and h&r.
The setup I have on my current car is by far the best for my needs. I don't do track days but i drive the car pretty hard but it also has to be comfy enough for family duties.
My setup: s3 wishbones, superpro camber adjustable ball joints (allows some neg camber on the front) autotech hollow rear bar, light wheels, light brakes, h&r monotubes, goodyear assymetric2s.
The car rides as good if not better than stock and handles very nicely - a masive improvement over stock imo.
:driver:
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Ok, so I've decided to get a RARB and the anit-lift kit, either WALK or the super pro alternative.
Should I buy the Whiteline RARB or hop on the H&R Group buy?
WALK or SALK?
Thanks
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H&R ARB and SALK. IIRC there have been a few cases of the poly bush failing on the WALK.