MK5 Golf GTI

General => Random Chat => Topic started by: GTI-Ross on December 04, 2013, 07:48:24 pm

Title: Listen to the chain rattle and tell me what you think (link on page 2)
Post by: GTI-Ross on December 04, 2013, 07:48:24 pm
Hey guys, ill try keep it quick and straight forward.

I bought a MK6 GTI from JCT600 Peugeot (in Hull) just because it was well speced and cheap. As some of you know the MK6 has a problem with the timing chain and if it slip it can cause serious damage, often needing new engine (FOC and 8 hours labour)

Mine has started to rattle for 3-5 seconds on cold start up which is a tell tail sign it might be on its way out. So I called Peugeot and told them i need it checking by VW as it still has 5 months approved used warranty on it. They agreed and VW called me an hour later to arrange  getting the car in for testing. Now even thought the fault has happend yet I can tell its not far away. Every morning i cross my fingers and hope the chain dont slip. (no way to live)

The main part i want help / advise with is the warranty part. They say i have Platinum Plus Warranty (no idea if that is good or not). Now im hoping VW can hear / feel the problem with the timing chain.

The thing i dont know is who makes the money on warranty, will my local VW want to do the work and charge 8 hours labour for strpping engine and fitting new tensioner and claim it back from VW HQ / Warranty company or will they try shy away from it and say there is no fault?

Anyone with any kind of info would be great.

Thanks fellas... :happy2:
Title: Re: Does anyone work for VW, Audi or Skoda - Need help
Post by: edd666999 on December 04, 2013, 08:55:49 pm
Approve used Vw warranty?
Title: Re: Does anyone work for VW, Audi or Skoda - Need help
Post by: GTI-Ross on December 04, 2013, 10:00:44 pm
Approve used Vw warranty?

Well approved used JCT600 warranty - not sure if its VW specific.
Title: Re: Does anyone work for VW, Audi or Skoda - Need help
Post by: MAT ED30 on December 04, 2013, 10:02:04 pm
well they have a vw dealer in the group
Title: Re: Does anyone work for VW, Audi or Skoda - Need help
Post by: tony_danza on December 04, 2013, 10:37:07 pm
One in Leeds iirc.

VW dealer will be all over that like a rash, that's easy money to them. I doubt they'll even bat an eyelid, just show you to the courtesy car.
Title: Re: Does anyone work for VW, Audi or Skoda - Need help
Post by: GTI-Ross on December 06, 2013, 10:15:56 am
One in Leeds iirc.

VW dealer will be all over that like a rash, that's easy money to them. I doubt they'll even bat an eyelid, just show you to the courtesy car.

I hope so, i dont want a silly bill for £90 for a quick diagnostic
Title: Re: Does anyone work for VW, Audi or Skoda - Need help
Post by: Hedge on December 06, 2013, 12:17:58 pm
The TSI timing chain problem is actually a tensioner fault.

Of all the instances I know there has been no signs of failure just the driver has shut the car down and the next morning on startup the chain jumps = engine for lunch.

They may change the tensioner as a precaution but it's still no guarantee it wont happen. I believe there has been 3 revisions so far.
Title: Re: Does anyone work for VW, Audi or Skoda - Need help
Post by: GTI-Ross on December 06, 2013, 12:22:04 pm
The TSI timing chain problem is actually a tensioner fault.

Of all the instances I know there has been no signs of failure just the driver has shut the car down and the next morning on startup the chain jumps = engine for lunch.

They may change the tensioner as a precaution but it's still no guarantee it wont happen. I believe there has been 3 revisions so far.

Correct on all of the above, i know as i have spent many hour reading and researching it. Just dont know what VW will do or say  :confused:
Title: Re: Does anyone work for VW, Audi or Skoda - Need help
Post by: Hedge on December 06, 2013, 12:27:24 pm
So you know everything that I wrote yet still write this.

Mine has started to rattle for 3-5 seconds on cold start up which is a tell tail sign it might be on its way out.

So yours is different as for the previous failures there has been no tell-tale signs.

Good luck with that one.  :happy2:
Title: Re: Does anyone work for VW, Audi or Skoda - Need help
Post by: GTI-Ross on December 06, 2013, 12:29:59 pm
So you know everything that I wrote yet still write this.

Mine has started to rattle for 3-5 seconds on cold start up which is a tell tail sign it might be on its way out.

So yours is different as for the previous failures there has been no tell-tale signs.

Good luck with that one.  :happy2:

There is tell-tails signs, most people report a rattle for around 4-8 weeks and then bang....

Its not nailed on, but most people experience it before it goes.
Title: Re: Does anyone work for VW, Audi or Skoda - Need help
Post by: Frodo-anni on December 06, 2013, 09:50:10 pm
Which dealership have you taken or are taking the car too?

Have you tried White Rose VW at crosshills, if they cant do anything themselves, im sure Ben on the service desk would help out with some info.  :happy2:
Title: Re: Does anyone work for VW, Audi or Skoda - Need help
Post by: B3n on December 08, 2013, 09:21:48 pm
One in Leeds iirc.

VW dealer will be all over that like a rash, that's easy money to them. I doubt they'll even bat an eyelid, just show you to the courtesy car.

+1 for this :happy2:
Title: Re: Does anyone work for VW, Audi or Skoda - Need help
Post by: Markyed30 on December 08, 2013, 11:22:46 pm
U got rid of ur mk5 as dsg problem and got a manual Mk6 and now this ur not doing well lol :fighting:
Title: Re: Does anyone work for VW, Audi or Skoda - Need help
Post by: GTI-Ross on December 09, 2013, 08:43:34 am
U got rid of ur mk5 as dsg problem and got a manual Mk6 and now this ur not doing well lol :fighting:

Yep - VW = sh*te build quality
Title: Re: Does anyone work for VW, Audi or Skoda - Need help
Post by: Snoopy on December 09, 2013, 09:10:04 pm
Rather than all the hassle just get an independent specialist to change it for £300 is it worth all the running around hassle and stress?

I havent found any failures yet with the latest revision tensioner and only a few world wide of 2011 cars with an earlier revision tensioner.

When you see them side by side anyone with any mechanical knowledge will understand why the earlier ones on 2009 early 2010 cars fail. Its a shocking design. The latest 2012 version is much superior..

The mk7 uses the next revision letter on again but I dont know if that wil fit the mk6.


Ps
Make sure then rattle is actually coming from the chain cover area. Mine sounded rattly at startup a year ago its why I brought this issue to light in the uk as I found it when trying to find out what mine was. When I listened at the cover with my ear when someone else started the car. It was actually further along the engine. Just noisy tappets or injectors but only happened if the car stood overnight.
Title: Re: Does anyone work for VW, Audi or Skoda - Need help
Post by: GTI-Ross on December 11, 2013, 02:32:44 pm
this is recording of the engine over the past few weeks, as you can tell its getting worse. YOu can clearly hear the 3-5 seconds sound very rattley 

Title: Re: Does anyone work for VW, Audi or Skoda - Need help
Post by: MAT ED30 on December 11, 2013, 02:38:49 pm
That sounds horrid don't think I would be starting that tell em to get it sorted ASAP
Title: Re: Listen to the chain rattle and tell me what you think (link on page 2)
Post by: Snoopy on December 12, 2013, 08:07:20 pm
Thats the worst ive heard. Seeing how it works If it was mine i wouldn't start it again. I would either play that to a master tech at a local dealer dont be fobbed off by the paper pusher service desk staff then trailer it to them to replace or do the same at a specialist to replace it.

That tensioner is faulty imo.
Title: Re: Listen to the chain rattle and tell me what you think (link on page 2)
Post by: candy turbo on December 12, 2013, 08:56:59 pm
Out of interest what year is your car ? When i was looking for mine a couple of vw guys i know told me to avoid 2009 and early 2010 cars for this reason unless it had documented proof it had the revised tensioner fitted i believe a revised tensioner came out in early 2010 then another mid 2010 since this no problems
Title: Re: Listen to the chain rattle and tell me what you think (link on page 2)
Post by: GTI-Ross on December 12, 2013, 11:15:48 pm
Out of interest what year is your car ? When i was looking for mine a couple of vw guys i know told me to avoid 2009 and early 2010 cars for this reason unless it had documented proof it had the revised tensioner fitted i believe a revised tensioner came out in early 2010 then another mid 2010 since this no problems

correct on all of the above, mine is a 2009 with 53k on it. Going in on Monday for a check. I have burn the audio clips on to a CD and will make sure they listen to it before starting it up.
Title: Re: Listen to the chain rattle and tell me what you think (link on page 2)
Post by: Hedge on December 12, 2013, 11:29:30 pm
Does the TSI have hydraulic tappets?
Title: Re: Listen to the chain rattle and tell me what you think (link on page 2)
Post by: candy turbo on December 13, 2013, 08:08:02 am
Out of interest what year is your car ? When i was looking for mine a couple of vw guys i know told me to avoid 2009 and early 2010 cars for this reason unless it had documented proof it had the revised tensioner fitted i believe a revised tensioner came out in early 2010 then another mid 2010 since this no problems

correct on all of the above, mine is a 2009 with 53k on it. Going in on Monday for a check. I have burn the audio clips on to a CD and will make sure they listen to it before starting it up.
To be honest id be getting the revised tensioner kit on your car now , if id have brought a 09/10 gti its the first thing id have done its apparently not a big or too expensive a job
Title: Re: Listen to the chain rattle and tell me what you think (link on page 2)
Post by: GTI-Ross on December 13, 2013, 10:07:00 am
Out of interest what year is your car ? When i was looking for mine a couple of vw guys i know told me to avoid 2009 and early 2010 cars for this reason unless it had documented proof it had the revised tensioner fitted i believe a revised tensioner came out in early 2010 then another mid 2010 since this no problems

correct on all of the above, mine is a 2009 with 53k on it. Going in on Monday for a check. I have burn the audio clips on to a CD and will make sure they listen to it before starting it up.
To be honest id be getting the revised tensioner kit on your car now , if id have brought a 09/10 gti its the first thing id have done its apparently not a big or too expensive a job

£300 all in mate. But im still under warranty, so trying to get VW to do it for free
Title: Re: Listen to the chain rattle and tell me what you think (link on page 2)
Post by: SkyJawa on December 13, 2013, 10:31:47 am
It doesn't matter what garage does the work on these warranty's they just have to be VAT registered.

They will diagnose the fault, work out the cost to change and then they will phone the warranty company for approval to complete the work.

Should be easy as pie.  Make sure when you get the car in to VW you give them the warranty details.
Title: Re: Listen to the chain rattle and tell me what you think (link on page 2)
Post by: candy turbo on December 13, 2013, 10:52:22 am
Out of interest what year is your car ? When i was looking for mine a couple of vw guys i know told me to avoid 2009 and early 2010 cars for this reason unless it had documented proof it had the revised tensioner fitted i believe a revised tensioner came out in early 2010 then another mid 2010 since this no problems

correct on all of the above, mine is a 2009 with 53k on it. Going in on Monday for a check. I have burn the audio clips on to a CD and will make sure they listen to it before starting it up.
I see what your saying , are you using the car ? £ 300 is nt much of a hit that the grief and cost if it goes pop
I listened to mine this morning and its possible the quietest vw petrol ive heard so some thing is mt right with yours mate
To be honest id be getting the revised tensioner kit on your car now , if id have brought a 09/10 gti its the first thing id have done its apparently not a big or too expensive a job

£300 all in mate. But im still under warranty, so trying to get VW to do it for free
Title: Re: Listen to the chain rattle and tell me what you think (link on page 2)
Post by: GTI-Ross on December 13, 2013, 01:39:38 pm
It doesn't matter what garage does the work on these warranty's they just have to be VAT registered.

They will diagnose the fault, work out the cost to change and then they will phone the warranty company for approval to complete the work.

Should be easy as pie.  Make sure when you get the car in to VW you give them the warranty details.

May as well get VW to do it if possible, then if anything related to it goes wrong i will have some ground to stand on.

PS: Warranty company hasnt approved it yet, want VW to go "Yep - theres a problem here, lets get it fixed"
Title: Re: Listen to the chain rattle and tell me what you think (link on page 2)
Post by: Snoopy on December 13, 2013, 04:51:41 pm
Out of interest what year is your car ? When i was looking for mine a couple of vw guys i know told me to avoid 2009 and early 2010 cars for this reason unless it had documented proof it had the revised tensioner fitted i believe a revised tensioner came out in early 2010 then another mid 2010 since this no problems
one came out may 2010 another in 2011 and another end 2012. The mk7 has the same part number just a letter difference so maybe a new revision just out. The may 2010 is better but still failures too.
Title: Re: Listen to the chain rattle and tell me what you think (link on page 2)
Post by: GTI-Ross on December 13, 2013, 07:05:28 pm
Out of interest what year is your car ? When i was looking for mine a couple of vw guys i know told me to avoid 2009 and early 2010 cars for this reason unless it had documented proof it had the revised tensioner fitted i believe a revised tensioner came out in early 2010 then another mid 2010 since this no problems
one came out may 2010 another in 2011 and another end 2012. The mk7 has the same part number just a letter difference so maybe a new revision just out. The may 2010 is better but still failures too.


Hopefully they will stick the latest 2012one in if they choose to replace it
Title: Re: Listen to the chain rattle and tell me what you think (link on page 2)
Post by: candy turbo on December 13, 2013, 08:07:01 pm
Just how common is this fault ? Surely if there had been lots of failures it would have become a re call ? Is it just a handfull of cars or what ?
Title: Re: Listen to the chain rattle and tell me what you think (link on page 2)
Post by: GTI5 on December 13, 2013, 09:27:44 pm
Well maybe VW knows for sure but the numbers have been increasing and you can see a number of threads on Golf GTI UK and Briskoda. Also a long running thread on the MK6 forum for US owners.

As mentioned on the other thread on Golf GTI UK your engine sounds like mine did before it failed and it's possible it will happen in by the time you hit 60k.

You may observe a noticeable deterioration in the days leading up to total failure.
Title: Re: Listen to the chain rattle and tell me what you think (link on page 2)
Post by: candy turbo on December 13, 2013, 09:43:56 pm
Gti5 whst year was/is yours ?
Title: Re: Listen to the chain rattle and tell me what you think (link on page 2)
Post by: GTI5 on December 13, 2013, 09:46:55 pm
59 plate (Still got it), have you bought one?
Title: Re: Listen to the chain rattle and tell me what you think (link on page 2)
Post by: candy turbo on December 13, 2013, 09:56:06 pm
Yes mines an 11 plate was warned about the 2009 early 2010 cars was led to believe from mid 2010 the problem was sorted , not too worried mine sounds sweet as a nut but is it worth getting the latest tensioner fitted ?
Title: Re: Listen to the chain rattle and tell me what you think (link on page 2)
Post by: GTI5 on December 13, 2013, 10:02:14 pm
11 plate should have one of the later revisions, if you start hearing what sounds like a slack chain/rattle in the future then you could have it inspected but I don't think you will need to pay for a new one to be put on.

Whats the mileage?
Title: Re: Listen to the chain rattle and tell me what you think (link on page 2)
Post by: candy turbo on December 13, 2013, 10:09:51 pm
16k miles , read that clean oil may help and its had 3 oil changes already last owner was an enthusiast ( suffered ocd ! ) same as me lol so hopefully be ok
Title: Re: Listen to the chain rattle and tell me what you think (link on page 2)
Post by: Snoopy on December 13, 2013, 10:35:29 pm
Just how common is this fault ? Surely if there had been lots of failures it would have become a re call ? Is it just a handfull of cars or what ?
As ive pointed out a gazillion times on the other forum VW dont like to admit they make mistakes.
If its a saftey related item they will eventually do a recall. It took them public humiliation and a death in Australia before they did with the dsg box.
The sad thing is the tensioner is NOT classed as a saftey related item because its only the ratchet that fails.  It only uses the ratchet when oil pressure is not present in the tensioner. Therefore the tension only fails after the car stands for a while turned off. Then when you start it the tension is slack due to the weak ratchet design. The chain jumps a few teeth. The oil pressure builds. The chain tentions with oil pressure. The ecu trys to keep the car running by playing with cam timing and in the process the engine makes metal on metal contact. Pistons meet valves and a number of other issues if your really unluckie.
VWgmbh know theres an issue its why when they see the engine code for mismatched timing they supply a new engine free of charge without argument.
What the issue then is which is the not nice part is VWuk and their dealers charge for fitting and could be 2k most have got this down to around 500 with so called good will HA! But thats still alot for something thats down to a badly designed weak weak part ie a design issue!

As for the question about what tensioner will be used to fix a car. ]tensioner supplied now HAS to be the latest one as the parts disc states in red to never use the old part even if in stock. In ither words they know there an issue too!

The way Im looking at it is if it was a mk5 I would have had to pay for a cambelt change after 4 years. Paying a specialist similar money to change the chain tensioner isnt too much of a hardship. Ill just have to get my ass into gear and get it done.

Ps I just read above the comment about frequent oil changes helping. This is untrue. Its the mechanical ratched the tensioner drops back onto when the car is turned off and oil pressure falls off. Its the ratchet part that fails nothing to do with oil or oil quality.
Title: Re: Listen to the chain rattle and tell me what you think (link on page 2)
Post by: candy turbo on December 14, 2013, 03:00:43 am
^^^^^^ great post , thanks
Id read about the follower being " gunked " in sludge in some engines that had failed surely this would nt help
Title: Re: Listen to the chain rattle and tell me what you think (link on page 2)
Post by: Snoopy on December 14, 2013, 10:04:47 am
^^^^^^ great post , thanks
Id read about the follower being " gunked " in sludge in some engines that had failed surely this would nt help
Different part different issue. Its the mecanical ratchet inside the tensioner that fails due to poor weak design if you physically see the tensioner and have any mechanical knowledge its easy to see why it fails its shocking peace of design imo. The current latest tensioner is far better but im still not a fan of this design.
Its just a shame I like the rest of the car so much. I plan to changing the tensioner every 3 to 4 years unless mine goes bang in that time if that happens the cars going and its the end of me and my family with Volkswagens after 25 years years in my case and even longer with other members of the family.
Title: Re: Listen to the chain rattle and tell me what you think (link on page 2)
Post by: candy turbo on December 14, 2013, 10:31:28 am
Ok so its pot luck really then , got to be treated as a service item really then , i might get mine looked at at next service to check i have the latest version of the tensioner!