MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: wodder42 on January 08, 2014, 11:08:20 pm

Title: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: wodder42 on January 08, 2014, 11:08:20 pm
Hi guys
Looking at getting a mk5 diesel...which is the best engine? Might end up modding....so bear that in mind for re mapping etc
Cheers in advance?
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: Scottymon on January 08, 2014, 11:15:34 pm
170, early 140's were gay, CR are best... A puppy dies
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: marko on January 08, 2014, 11:32:06 pm
Think I'm right in saying the 140 is more tuneable than the 170.
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: Andy on January 08, 2014, 11:35:17 pm
170, early 140's were gay, CR are best... A puppy dies
early 140 are gay  :surprised:
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: Scottymon on January 08, 2014, 11:38:01 pm
Yeah they have porous backsides
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: Andy on January 08, 2014, 11:50:16 pm
nothing wrong with my back side :signLOL:
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: Scottymon on January 09, 2014, 12:16:43 am
I ain't sayin nuffin.
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: Andy on January 09, 2014, 12:17:58 am
I ain't sayin nuffin.
:grin:
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: xjay1337 on January 09, 2014, 01:04:29 am
PD170 engines are TERRIBLE.
They do not work with the DPF at all.
the BKD 140 engine is actually better and what I would go for...
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: Alzak on January 09, 2014, 05:18:02 am
PD170 engines are TERRIBLE.
They do not work with the DPF at all.
the BKD 140 engine is actually better and what I would go for...

OP want to get it modded so I would go for PPD170, with a DPF off and remap you should get 205-210 without crazy amount of smoke try to get this just with remap from 140...

I bought Leon FR more than 3 years ago and if I ever have to sell it it will be a sad day for me ...
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: xjay1337 on January 09, 2014, 09:14:18 am
What's wrong with the BKD140 for tuning? If I was buying another TDI to be tuned I would get a BKD 140 engine. Darksides Jetta got over 310bhp and could make more.

Outside of the turbo (which is only slightly difference) and the injectors having slightly larger nozzles, they are no different to the PD170 engine
 
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: Viking on January 09, 2014, 09:25:06 am
Don't forget that DPF is now a visual inspection on MOTs, so if you're gonna remove it then make allowances for this.
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: xjay1337 on January 09, 2014, 09:50:32 am
170, early 140's were gay, CR are best... A puppy dies

CRs are gay
The head design is crap and a major bottleneck once you approach 260bhp.
The BKD head will flow to 330-340.

Marko is right! :D

Don't forget that DPF is now a visual inspection on MOTs, so if you're gonna remove it then make allowances for this.

Be the same "issue" with De-cats lol, we all know "a mate"
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: Viking on January 09, 2014, 10:06:06 am

Don't forget that DPF is now a visual inspection on MOTs, so if you're gonna remove it then make allowances for this.

Be the same "issue" with De-cats lol, we all know "a mate"


Yep, but just in case someone goes charging off and gets it riven off and then fails an MOT... forewarned etc.  :happy2:

Besides, the fact that they're unable to remove anything for an mot would mean that any "heatshield" fitted would hide the presence ( or absence) of a DPF or CAT.  Shouldn't be too hard to knock one up from sheet aluminium. :wink:
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: Scottymon on January 09, 2014, 11:35:11 am
PD170 engines are TERRIBLE.

Outside of the turbo (which is only slightly difference) and the injectors having slightly larger nozzles, they [140] are no different to the PD170 engine
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: xjay1337 on January 09, 2014, 12:00:57 pm
PD170 engines come with a DPF which does not work well with the engine design, as it's not designed to - so they clog up. Their crystal controlled injectors are sh*te and break constantly.
Pistons, heads, comp ratios etc are all pretty much identical between the engines as well.

But as I said what's the point of getting a PD170 lump when it is identical aside from crap injectors and a DPF. If you remove the DPF you do end up with the whole MOT issue (while we all may know a mate we do need to bear that into consideration) where as the PD140 does not have that problem to begin with.... PD140s are a good few grand cheaper as well meaning you can save the money, buy a bigger turbo (as the stock PD140 turbos are fairly weak) and any other mods or tuning you want.




Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: Andy on January 09, 2014, 12:12:27 pm
or don't mod it and keep it standard :innocent:
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: Scottymon on January 09, 2014, 12:12:51 pm
Porous heads, weak turbo's why aren't the CR's a better investment again?
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on January 09, 2014, 12:18:29 pm
170's have stronger internals.

As you can see by the posts in this thread so far. Both arent exactly super reliable though  :laugh:

The Mk6 TDI's onwards are all Common Rail (CR) and MUCH more relaible. No DPF worries, injector issues etc.
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: Andy on January 09, 2014, 12:31:31 pm
vw reliable  :evilgrin:
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: paulw123 on January 09, 2014, 01:39:02 pm
Don't al diesels come with DPF's on today, to meet emissions?
Surprised the Mk6's do not have them......
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: xjay1337 on January 09, 2014, 01:42:25 pm
Mk6 bluemotions and 2.0 tdis have them I believe.


Porous heads, weak turbo's why aren't the CR's a better investment again?
Porous heads on Revision A models.
No reported revision C failures.
Turbos which can be easily replaced...


PD170 let's say 6k
PD140 is let's say 3.5k

Darkside budget turbo kit is like £1800+ vat (GTB1756vk taking you to around 230-240bhp that's the same turbo I had on my old car)
Replacement head (if it happens) can be done for around £800 fitted. Very unlikely to happen on a 06 onwards car.

So let's say your turbo blows up and your head fails you replace them yourself knowing you have a decade or more of good reliable motoring ahead of you still ofr no more than the cost of a PD170...


170's have stronger internals.



Stronger internals how exactly?  :wink:
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: paulw123 on January 09, 2014, 03:30:05 pm
Is my MK5 08 gt tdi sport a Cr engine?
Don't you tell by the shiny 4 aluminium tubes running along the camshaft cover when you take engine cover off?   which mine has...
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: Matto on January 09, 2014, 03:31:27 pm
Stronger internals how exactly?  :wink:

A forged crank to start with.
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: rich83 on January 09, 2014, 03:35:41 pm
Is my MK5 08 gt tdi sport a Cr engine?
Don't you tell by the shiny 4 aluminium tubes running along the camshaft cover when you take engine cover off?   which mine has...

the cr started in the mk6 i belive.
i dont think they put them in the mk5

chris

Correct... CR are MK6 onwards
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: Viking on January 09, 2014, 04:22:44 pm
Stronger internals how exactly?  :wink:

A forged crank to start with.

VW have been using forged cranks for many years in TDI engines, at least as far back as the ALH 90bhp engine. I'm not sure they'd suddenly start making cast cranks for the 2.0ltr 140 engine and keep making forged ones for the 170 engine, while giving both different crankshafts the same part number.
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: xjay1337 on January 09, 2014, 04:57:24 pm
Stronger internals how exactly?  :wink:

A forged crank to start with.

Incorrect.
They are the same crank.
The crank is shared between many vehicles.
Pistons, rods, crankshafts are all the same. Both have all the same amounts of cooling internally, the only difference worth noting is the cams have a different PROFILE (this does not make them stronger)

I don't know why or where people think 170s have stronger internals but they really don't.  :scared:
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: Scottymon on January 09, 2014, 05:07:33 pm
I'd prefer not to replace a turbo or head and buy a more reliable version to start with... aren't the CR's much quieter too?

It's all pie in the sky anyway, I want a Rocco R. :party:
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: GTI5 on January 09, 2014, 05:09:37 pm

The Mk6 TDI's onwards are all Common Rail (CR) and MUCH more relaible. No DPF worries, injector issues etc.

This is the better option.
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: xjay1337 on January 09, 2014, 05:21:47 pm
I'd prefer not to replace a turbo or head and buy a more reliable version to start with... aren't the CR's much quieter too?

It's all pie in the sky anyway, I want a Rocco R. :party:


CRs are better engines yes.
However for TUNING a BKD is the best option.
CRs heads are very restrictive as I mentioned previously. If you want a big BHP TDI build a BKD is the place to start.
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on January 09, 2014, 07:46:18 pm
I'd prefer not to replace a turbo or head and buy a more reliable version to start with... aren't the CR's much quieter too?

It's all pie in the sky anyway, I want a Rocco R. :party:


CRs are better engines yes.
However for TUNING a BKD is the best option.
CRs heads are very restrictive as I mentioned previously. If you want a big BHP TDI build a BKD is the place to start.

True - if you want to go more than 250bhp but most settle for a remap & DPF delete.. A CR170 Octavia with those mods gave RichWig a run for his money  :grin:

The CR's are a world away from the PD's with almost petrol-like throttle response making for a much better drive
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: Andy on January 09, 2014, 08:09:05 pm
This thread is going into a which is the better sooty engine of which is not what the op asked and he is after advice on the 140 or 170 on a 08 reg or there bouts.. yes the cr engine is a quiter engine but less tuneable than the bkd engine but all depends how far you want to take it
Title: Re:
Post by: jason_rmh on January 09, 2014, 08:22:18 pm
I love my bkd 140. Had it for nearly 3 years, remapped, 132,000 miles and still going.
Turbo sounds like a police siren though... On my to do list along with a load of other mods :-)
A great engine to mod.

Jas
Title: Re: which is best? 140 or 170 PD
Post by: joshua_mk5 on January 15, 2014, 04:38:00 pm
Ive got a bkd140 08 plate with a map, decat and turbo back exhaust system.... Pulls like a train never had a problem with it however been unlucky with my mk6 the egr valve has just gone. In my opinion a bkd149 you cant go wrong with! Easily tuneable and it is only he turbo and dpf filter that is the difference with the pd170