MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Simmo on January 26, 2014, 11:43:48 am

Title: DV D vs G debate
Post by: Simmo on January 26, 2014, 11:43:48 am
Right, I've read hundreds of threads on "which DV is best to replace when going to stage 1 or above" and they seem to be split down the line. In fact the tuners seem to be split down the line as well. I've also read R Tech have trialled modifying an OEM DV with different springs.

I'm going for stage 2 (standard gti not eddy) and really not sure which way to go.

D appears to be the latest with piston but leaks boost and G seems to be the last version before TSI engines which are diaphragm but hold boost. Both don't suffer from the earlier boost leaks. Or do they? In fact does the D leak and is this all rubbish!?

Can anyone advise, is there a specific DV out of D or G to go for or does it really not matter?
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: MC71 on January 26, 2014, 11:48:41 am
G.

Now delete this thread IMMEDIATELY before peeps start committing suicide!  :happy2:
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: GTI-Ross on January 26, 2014, 11:59:19 am
G.

Now delete this thread IMMEDIATELY before peeps start committing suicide!  :happy2:

^^^^as above, delete now - too too many times this had been done. G is best Fact!
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: Simmo on January 26, 2014, 11:59:48 am
 :smiley: thought that might be the case! Can't delete thread though doh!

Guess il have to sit back and watch the flames!
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: greygti on January 26, 2014, 12:06:35 pm
G
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: Human Joist on January 26, 2014, 01:08:35 pm
Mine is a K03 and factory standard original. Take it if mine needs replacing I should go g as well. Or is g better for modded.
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: will_15 on January 26, 2014, 02:01:03 pm
I replaced my B with a D and ran it for 6 months, now been running a G for a few months and it's so much better, more boooooost, better tsssshhhh noises, MPG gone up a bit too.
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: R-tech-Nick on January 26, 2014, 02:12:34 pm
I love debates..... Try the F :-)
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: R-tech-Nick on January 26, 2014, 02:22:32 pm
Lol pulling ur pissers sorry..



G all the way.  The springs are used for boost transition / reaction between manifold pressure and vacuume. Stronger the spring with higher boost the sharper the movements.   The electromagnet side of the DV body only "opens" up the piston it cannot add force to clamp the piston shut... Sounds strange??     The DVs use the basic physics of equal pressure on both sides of the pistion, in the centre of the pistons D and the G the is a hole which the boost pressure flows into resulting in the pistion being pushed hard closed shut to hold the boost back.     The G is fully air tight from day one and has a nice rubber ring to seal on to the alloy surface.    The D uses a plastic sealing on the piston body this is not an air tight seal even when brand new that seal leaks in most cases, if not then afters a few weeks the plastic ring becomes slack and leaks.


Treat the G DVs as a consumable item change every year and the rubber quality will degrade over time with the constant expansion, pressure heat, movement and oil..   For £35-40  it's worth doing every service along with the hpfp cam follower


Hope this make sense, lol Sunday pm trying to watch superman 3, kids running a riot around the house and trying to type on a iPhone with dog laying on my arm...
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: robern2 on January 26, 2014, 02:29:55 pm
Hi nick
What's your view on the forge dv. I've had mine fitted for 3 years with no issues thus far.
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: MC71 on January 26, 2014, 02:33:04 pm
G all the way.  The springs are used for boost transition / reaction between manifold pressure and vacuume. Stronger the spring with higher boost the sharper the movements.   The electromagnet side of the DV body only "opens" up the piston it cannot add force to clamp the piston shut... Sounds strange??     The DVs use the basic physics of equal pressure on both sides of the pistion, in the centre of the pistons D and the G the is a hole which the boost pressure flows into resulting in the pistion being pushed hard closed shut to hold the boost back.     The G is fully air tight from day one and has a nice rubber ring to seal on to the alloy surface.    The D uses a plastic sealing on the piston body this is not an air tight seal even when brand new that seal leaks in most cases, if not then afters a few weeks the plastic ring becomes slack and leaks.


Treat the G DVs as a consumable item change every year and the rubber quality will degrade over time with the constant expansion, pressure heat, movement and oil..   For £35-40  it's worth doing every service along with the hpfp cam follower

Can someone PLEASE make this a sticky!  :happy2:
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: R-tech-Nick on January 26, 2014, 02:36:19 pm
No issue you know of.... ;-).    I have yet to come across one which has not had issues.  On average 18-23bhp losses back to back vs the G.      The car drives ok with it fitted but back to back logging and dyno runs show its causing issue with peak flow /power.      Find a local dyno and run back to back with a G and see what happens.  

There was a dude (gaz i think)  on here with White S3 stage2+ map from awesome GTi, he had a Forge DV fitted and was convinced it felt slower, he came to me for a power run and logging session which he ended up leaving with 20hp more just by running a stock dv setup. 
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: robern2 on January 26, 2014, 02:38:41 pm
Thanks nick
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: xjay1337 on January 26, 2014, 02:41:57 pm
Great to see Niki up giving great info and advice to this forum :)
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: R-tech-Nick on January 26, 2014, 02:45:04 pm
Wish I had more time help out and join in like the old golfgtiforum days, but 4 kids take up all my spare time now
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: john87 on January 26, 2014, 03:34:45 pm
Maybe a daft question, but can I fit a 'G' version to my mk6 R? The D gives the occasional 'shudder' as it closes after pulling away, and it sounds crap through the EVOMS compared to the 'G' on my GTI!
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: GarethB on January 26, 2014, 04:40:14 pm
Maybe a daft question, but can I fit a 'G' version to my mk6 R?

Yes  :happy2:
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: john87 on January 26, 2014, 05:04:15 pm
muchas gracias  :happy2:
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: R-tech-Nick on January 26, 2014, 05:12:14 pm
I have another batch of 25% stiffer springs being made up. I might get a huge batch made up and get Ben to do them mail order to help people out.
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: xjay1337 on January 26, 2014, 05:20:24 pm
I have another batch of 25% stiffer springs being made up. I might get a huge batch made up and get Ben to do them mail order to help people out.

Would like!
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: robern2 on January 26, 2014, 05:36:37 pm
I have another batch of 25% stiffer springs being made up. I might get a huge batch made up and get Ben to do them mail order to help people out.
count me in
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: MC71 on January 26, 2014, 05:39:51 pm
I have another batch of 25% stiffer springs being made up. I might get a huge batch made up and get Ben to do them mail order to help people out.

 :popcornsoda:
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: Marshall on January 26, 2014, 05:41:09 pm
Nick do you have any views or experience with the GFB dv+?
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: xjay1337 on January 26, 2014, 06:08:58 pm
Nick do you have any views or experience with the GFB dv+?
ITS TERRIBLE I HATE THEM. I FITTED IT TO MY CAR AND AFTER 8 MONTHS IT WENT WRONG SO I PUT A REVO ONE IN AND IT WORKED.


 :signLOL: :signLOL:
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: Marshall on January 26, 2014, 06:26:02 pm
Nick do you have any views or experience with the GFB dv+?
ITS TERRIBLE I HATE THEM. I FITTED IT TO MY CAR AND AFTER 8 MONTHS IT WENT WRONG SO I PUT A REVO ONE IN AND IT WORKED.


 :signLOL: :signLOL:

Oooooh touchy
I was proved right in the end though!!!
Dodgy dealings and all that. Ha ha
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: mvb12 on January 26, 2014, 06:44:05 pm
Nick do you have any views or experience with the GFB dv+?
ITS TERRIBLE I HATE THEM. I FITTED IT TO MY CAR AND AFTER 8 MONTHS IT WENT WRONG SO I PUT A REVO ONE IN AND IT WORKED.


 :signLOL: :signLOL:


REVO DV  :confused: where do you get these REVO ones from , never knew REVO did DV's. any pics?
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: Marshall on January 26, 2014, 06:49:31 pm
Nick do you have any views or experience with the GFB dv+?
ITS TERRIBLE I HATE THEM. I FITTED IT TO MY CAR AND AFTER 8 MONTHS IT WENT WRONG SO I PUT A REVO ONE IN AND IT WORKED.


 :signLOL: :signLOL:


REVO DV  :confused: where do you get these REVO ones from , never knew REVO did DV's. any pics?
They don't exist mate.
It was just his attempt at humour towards me.
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: mvb12 on January 26, 2014, 06:55:13 pm
Nick do you have any views or experience with the GFB dv+?
ITS TERRIBLE I HATE THEM. I FITTED IT TO MY CAR AND AFTER 8 MONTHS IT WENT WRONG SO I PUT A REVO ONE IN AND IT WORKED.


 :signLOL: :signLOL:


i see  :happy2:
REVO DV  :confused: where do you get these REVO ones from , never knew REVO did DV's. any pics?
They don't exist mate.
It was just his attempt at humour towards me.

I see
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: vRSAlex on January 26, 2014, 07:04:00 pm
DV+ leaks just the same as a D.
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: Marshall on January 26, 2014, 07:14:10 pm
DV+ leaks just the same as a D.
Thank you
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: Hedge on January 26, 2014, 07:15:17 pm
Do those with BIG turbos need to run a double G?  :smiley:
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: rich83 on January 26, 2014, 07:16:03 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstream1.gifsoup.com%2Fview7%2F2623190%2Fmagic-roundabout-o.gif&hash=0d795eec1f091b966699e3b83f8f819049fb9f3e)
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: MC71 on January 26, 2014, 07:19:41 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1049.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs399%2Fmcaborn%2F5147f3d9583b94e0b0d6218524a743b4_zps68ada9b6.jpg&hash=ceebbc9a56d8196de8baf790128026645616772d)
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: MrJohnVas on January 26, 2014, 09:42:06 pm
A few questions here, which DV has the yellow ring for me to tell which I have?

Also, where is the best place to buy and is there a tutorial on replacing?
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: alexharvey on January 26, 2014, 09:58:32 pm
get the g revision from vw main dealer
fitting wont cost alot take half hour at most with ramp
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: MrJohnVas on January 26, 2014, 10:07:00 pm
get the g revision from vw main dealer
fitting wont cost alot take half hour at most with ramp

Brilliant - friend works for VW and my dads a mechanic with a ramp haha

I want to do it myself though so I'll use his ramp and have a play myself :)
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: alexharvey on January 26, 2014, 10:13:24 pm
good idea there about 35 to 40 quid at dealers it will be easy to do yourself if u have ramp n tools

vas u on dw aswell

Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: MrJohnVas on January 26, 2014, 10:17:11 pm
good idea there about 35 to 40 quid at dealers it will be easy to do yourself if u have ramp n tools

vas u on dw aswell



how weird I just replied to you on DW in the newbies section hahaha
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: alexharvey on January 26, 2014, 10:35:37 pm
lol funny

have u decided to map it at rtec !?
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: alexharvey on January 26, 2014, 10:38:06 pm
hey

just seen reply im in bush hill park and you ?

i think ive seen your car before not many that colour round here anyway!

u prob seen my black gti before running around at night mine has plasti dip gold alloys lol
cant miss it
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: MrJohnVas on January 26, 2014, 10:39:40 pm
hey

just seen reply im in bush hill park and you ?

i think ive seen your car before not many that colour round here anyway!

u prob seen my black gti before running around at night mine has plasti dip gold alloys lol
cant miss it

I saw a black one a few days ago, what year is yours? 54 or something?

I'm near Green Dragon pub if you know it :)
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: alexharvey on January 26, 2014, 10:41:46 pm
yeah green dragon just down rd from me! mines 05 plate gold alloys lol
if u ever wanna check r tec map no probs take u for spin before u get mapped!!

Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: MrJohnVas on January 26, 2014, 10:47:13 pm
yeah green dragon just down rd from me! mines 05 plate gold alloys lol
if u ever wanna check r tec map no probs take u for spin before u get mapped!!



Ha that's crazy you're so close! Definitely would be good to meet someone else with a gti! Got a DSLR and a gopro if you wanted to have a little shoot? Next weekends a bit hectic but maybe the sunday after or something...
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: alexharvey on January 26, 2014, 10:50:23 pm
i know how crazy like 2 mins away good to meet up one day and a shoot sounds good would like to get some decent shots of my car ! esp with gold alloys now lol and good to meet a fellow GTI nut , and u can see my car n the mods i have done!

be good to keep in touch should be ok sunday week!

Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: john a on January 26, 2014, 11:02:39 pm
What's a DV? Is it something else I can just write out a cheque for the newest, best thing?
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: Degudodger on January 26, 2014, 11:11:08 pm
What's a DV? Is it something else I can just write out a cheque for the newest, best thing?

This should help explain http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,44709.0.html (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,44709.0.html)
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: Scottymon on January 26, 2014, 11:12:59 pm
K04 - G all day
K03 - D possibly DV+ , diaphragms can be tested being so close to the Turbo... been through 3 diaphragm DV's in 40k on K03
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: alexharvey on January 26, 2014, 11:20:38 pm
D and DVplus leak boost

Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: Scottymon on January 26, 2014, 11:25:10 pm
D and DVplus leak boost



DV+ leak boost on K03?
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: alexharvey on January 27, 2014, 12:45:43 am
they leak boost on k03 and k04

not sure if a stadard non mapped car would leak boost but rev g doesnt so..................
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: Scottymon on January 27, 2014, 01:09:05 am
Love to see proof of this on K03.. all I know is the Rev G split after a while on a sustained tuned K03; useless for longevity
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: Wooosh on January 27, 2014, 01:57:16 am
G = More boost. :happy2:
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: Roadrebel on January 27, 2014, 12:03:48 pm
I assume my 05 has the original DV. I have a rev D to put in it. Are you all saying it is a waste of time?
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: Pikey Motorsports on January 27, 2014, 12:06:35 pm
R-tech why do you not like the forge unit?
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: vRSAlex on January 27, 2014, 12:21:20 pm
R-tech why do you not like the forge unit?

Another DV product that isn't needed and doesn't always function and seal correctly.
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: Pikey Motorsports on January 27, 2014, 12:32:22 pm
you think i should change mine on my gtx setup? i was thinking of changing to a forge supersize or tial recirc
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: xjay1337 on January 27, 2014, 01:44:39 pm
Love to see proof of this on K03.. all I know is the Rev G split after a while on a sustained tuned K03; useless for longevity

It's a £40 that can be changed on a jack in about 20 minutes.. I view mine as a part I just replace on a yearly basis with an annual service.
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: berg on January 27, 2014, 02:00:14 pm
mine made 361bhp with a Rev D, so wonder whether it could be stronger still with a G  :surprised:
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: Scottymon on January 27, 2014, 02:04:13 pm
It's inconvenient, I want to be able to rely on a part, not have to keep changing them (done 3 now)
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: Rob. on January 27, 2014, 02:50:25 pm
Arse. I just fitted a Rev D after reading some older arguments on here  :grin:
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: H17YD_L on January 28, 2014, 12:30:58 pm
I have both a G and a DV+ and I have done some logging with both, the the DV+ seems to meet requested boost ever so slightly earlier than the G I'm only talking 250-300rpm. I've got the graph from the DV+ here and I can get the G one when I get on my laptop at home:

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi810.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz21%2FH17YD_L%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2FDV_zpsc484f0f1.jpg&hash=4a3683a085ee91b46c215dc69fde50c0b7273506) (http://s810.photobucket.com/user/H17YD_L/media/Mobile%20Uploads/DV_zpsc484f0f1.jpg.html)
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: berg on January 28, 2014, 12:41:30 pm
Its a bit like the HPFP debate.

If you want to get the maximum with no/little boost leak and dont mind having to change a £40.00 part every 20,000 miles go for the G.

If you want a part that wont fail and wont need changing, but will potentially compromise performace somewhat go for the D.

I suppose the big question to ask Nick and Alex is - "How much extra boost (expressed as a %) does the typical D valve lose aginst the G? How much power/torque is typically lost in the same b2b runs"

If the answer is 2-5 bhp and 5-8lb ft then you might take the view that should stick with a D. If you are losing 20lb ft and 10bhp then I think you have to say, may as well keep chaning the G when I change cam follower because if you are going to great lengths to get the most out of your car and the best possible parts on it you dont want to compromise it by having a poorly performing DV losing you a lot of performance.  :popcornsoda:
Title: Re: DV D vs G debate
Post by: H17YD_L on January 29, 2014, 07:56:13 pm
If anyone was interested in the DV+ vs REV G logs I did here they are:

REV G:

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi810.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz21%2FH17YD_L%2FREVGtest_zps657369b3.jpg&hash=8531f3ba60af5c8fe58c1fef4be40616220a5c2c) (http://s810.photobucket.com/user/H17YD_L/media/REVGtest_zps657369b3.jpg.html)

DV+

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi810.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz21%2FH17YD_L%2FDVtest_zps4adc0bb8.jpg&hash=e9e00b2f6ad8892ccf4ad1e7cd8878089dd6314b) (http://s810.photobucket.com/user/H17YD_L/media/DVtest_zps4adc0bb8.jpg.html)