MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Msportman on September 27, 2009, 08:40:49 pm
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Had a phone call from a good friend of mine who runs a local Ford garage near where I live.
He was keen to see how his new Ford RS Focus would shape up against my Edition 30 with all of the added APR bits and bobs.
Like me he's a petrol head with an open mind and TBH he had not been in the Edition 30 but he has sampled a stock MK5 GTI.
I went over to the showroom to see their new RS blue demonstrator.
I would have to say I did like some aspects of the car on intially seeing it parked up but my overall impression is that parked side by side my car was so much more understated and low key. German engineeing at it's best the Golf is the Kings Road car to own.
The interior in the RS is a big step forward and is more Msport orientated but having said that the quality and originality of the Golf seats are a boon.
We both went out in my car first and the sound and performance of my Golfy took John by surprise...he could not believe it's delivery and tractibilty even without a diff. He reckoned I'd be dissapointed with the RS even before I drove it!
Out we went in the RS. First thing I noticed is the initial low down oomph but the noise was cultered and had the lovely warble but didn't rock my boat comparing the two.
As we progressed along some A roads and B roads I noticed how flat the car felt in the middle. Now I know my car is at stage 2 but this is a £28k car with the extra bits but the mid range punch was nowhere near as exciting as the Golf. The diff on uneven roads seemed to get confused pulling and tugging on the worst of the off camber sections especially the B roads.
Brakes were excellent but overall the car would not pusuade me from getting out of my car! :grin:
It's not a bad car but it's not a great step forward over the Golf and in the long run I wonder how many they will sell and how the residuals will stand up!
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Interesting :smiley:
How many miles are on your Golf versus the Focus RS ?? If it's very new and tight (ie. under 5K miles at least) it won't give a good account of itself just yet .....
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Had a phone call from a good friend of mine who runs a local Ford garage near where I live.
He was keen to see how his new Ford RS Focus would shape up against my Edition 30 with all of added APR bits and bobs.
Like me he's a petrol head with an open mind and TBH he had not been in the Edition 30 but he has sampled a stock MK5 GTI.
I went over to the showroom to see their new RS blue demonstrator.
I would have to say I did like some aspects of the car on intially seeing it parked up but my overall impression is that parked side by side my car was so much more understated and low key. German engineeing at it's best the Golf is the Kings Road car to own.
The interior in the RS is a big step forward and is more Msport orientated but having said that the quality and originality of the Golf seats are a boon.
We both went out in my car first and the sound and performance of my Golfy took John by surprise...he could not believe it's delivery and tractibilty even without a diff. He reckoned I'd be dissapointed with the RS even before I drove it!
Out we went in the RS. First thing I noticed is the initial low down oomph but the noise was cultered and had the lovely warble but didn't rock my boat comparing the two.
As we progressed along some A roads and B roads I noticed how flat the car felt in the middle. Now I know my car is at stage 2 but this is a £28k car with the extra bits but the mid range punch was nowhere near as exciting as the Golf. The diff on uneven roads seemed to get confused pulling and tugging on the worst of the off camber sections especially the B roads.
Brakes were excellent but overall the car would not pusuade me from getting out of my car! :grin:
It's not a bad car but it's not a great step forward over the Golf and in the long run I wonder how many they will sell and how the residuals will stand up!
When I test drove the RS this is exactly what I thought, especially about it tugging the car all over the place, I thought it was horrendous in fact!
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The RS can be alot more and I think people are getting in standard RS's and not seing the full picture...Ive heard alot of people say the engine is at its limits with the spec Ford have put into it :innocent: The RS with the amount of mods that some one can put into any other car will be phenominal! Dont forget this car is STILL watered down to pass euro emissions.
Any ill say it again I used to own a Focus ST225 and got rid of it for its drinking problem I will NOT own another for that simple reason.
or yeh! forget to say I dont think id get back out of a VW now :happy2:
Darren
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Interesting :smiley:
How many miles are on your Golf versus the Focus RS ?? If it's very new and tight (ie. under 5K miles at least) it won't give a good account of itself just yet .....
It's done the rounds at 9800 miles! :scared:
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I agree it's the OE watered down variety that will always be some way off our expectations from a modded car.
The straightline performance and mid range oomph are some way off my car....the RS will certainly need a map and exhaust to match or better the Ed30.
think what it does say is what good value a used Edition 30 is against the new RS. Even a good stock Ed30 at 15k plus mods at 4k still is 7-8k under the new RS!
The mid range thump is nowhere near the levels of a stage 2 mapped car!!
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Good comparison :happy2:
I don't want an RS, but I wouldn't mind trying one just to see how much it lacks> I know it does lack oomph as I've played against one before. :innocent:
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think what it does say is what good value a used Edition 30 is against the new RS. Even a good stock Ed30 at 15k plus mods at 4k still is 7-8k under the new RS!
See what your getting at now Ive seen Ed30 for under £15 so to even spend £10k on it it would be some beast and be still cheaper than an RS.
Darren
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Once again everyone compares their stage 2 ED 30 to standard cars. Surely to have a comparison thats worth reading you need to give the RS a 100 more BHP.
I can fully understand people putting there views and opinion's forward. But you are first comparing it against your own personal choices so straight away there is going to be bias and secondly everyone in the world knows the ED 30 lump lends itself beautifully to a re-map.
My car feels nimble and and much faster than a standard ED 30. but you would all laugh at me if i posted this. :rolleye: :driver:
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Once again everyone compares their stage 2 ED 30 to standard cars. Surely to have a comparison thats worth reading you need to give the RS a 100 more BHP.
I can fully understand people putting there views and opinion's forward. But you are first comparing it against your own personal choices so straight away there is going to be bias and secondly everyone in the world knows the ED 30 lump lends itself beautifully to a re-map.
My car feels nimble and and much faster than a standard ED 30. but you would all laugh at me if i posted this. :rolleye: :driver:
Totally agree with ya TC. but there will always be these kinda threads/posts. Remapped vs standard is unfair. Remap the FRS and i bet the results are rather different. and remaps are what....£500???
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When I test drove it I 'compared' it to my standard RS4 avant, that I had at the time!! It still torque steered like fcuk!
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Residuals on the RS will be great, and a stage 2 plus RS runs 375hp and 80lbft more torque than a stage 2 plus ed30, so a stage 2 plus RS will be the quicker car by some margin unless the golf has a diff fitted.
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Residuals on the RS will be great, and a stage 2 plus RS runs 375hp and 80lbft more torque than a stage 2 plus ed30, so a stage 2 plus RS will be the quicker car by some margin unless the golf has a diff fitted.
I'll believe the output figures, but I need to see actual speed figures :wink:
I've yet to see a well modified, remapped ST (that is lighter than the RS) make better than 14 seconds on a qtr strip.
I partially agree with TC, in that there will always be an unfair STD v's Modified comparison, but it does still make sense when you look at the costs of both to do the comparison. :smiley:
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Residuals on the RS will be great, and a stage 2 plus RS runs 375hp and 80lbft more torque than a stage 2 plus ed30, so a stage 2 plus RS will be the quicker car by some margin unless the golf has a diff fitted.
I'll believe the output figures, but I need to see actual speed figures :wink:
I've yet to see a well modified, remapped ST (that is lighter than the RS) make better than 14 seconds on a qtr strip.
I partially agree with TC, in that there will always be an unfair STD v's Modified comparison, but it does still make sense when you look at the costs of both to do the comparison. :smiley:
On the strip there will be not much in it imo, but out on the track the RS will make a ed30 or leon cupra look silly, nless the k04 car has diff fitted also.
Quite alot of scooby guys have traded theirs in for RS's so hopefully one of them will mod theirs soon. If not a fella from my way is gonna mod his one up.
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As said previously you can't compare the OE output of the ED30 against the RS.
It is useful to know however how your own car stacks up against the new kid on the block and it's also fait to say what good value the Ed30 is even with just a light re map.
I'm sure the RS would be quicker with a properly done map exhaust and induction but there again you're probably looking at over 30k. Would that be worth over 10-12k over a properly sorted ED30....probably not in my view.
I wouldn't turn one down though.
Interestingly Evo and Drivers Replublic tested the RS against the R26 on track....the Renault was quicker. Probably weight and tyre issues were to account for this. As an everyday car the RS would win was everyone's consensus.
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Are the diff issues (pulling/tugging) mentioned in the original post what can be expected if a Peloquin/Quaife is put in a high powered Golf?
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Residuals on the RS will be great, and a stage 2 plus RS runs 375hp and 80lbft more torque than a stage 2 plus ed30, so a stage 2 plus RS will be the quicker car by some margin unless the golf has a diff fitted.
I'll believe the output figures, but I need to see actual speed figures :wink:
I've yet to see a well modified, remapped ST (that is lighter than the RS) make better than 14 seconds on a qtr strip.
I partially agree with TC, in that there will always be an unfair STD v's Modified comparison, but it does still make sense when you look at the costs of both to do the comparison. :smiley:
Totally agree with John. Whilst (like TC says) it's unfair to compare modded vs standard, when you look at the money involved it can still be used as a comparison IMO (standard RS, or near new ED30 with a few mods and a lot of change). I suppose a better test will be the Golf R vs RS. As they will be similar money and similar in performance judging by the figures.
I myself am more interested in a battle between a modded ED30 and a modded RS. Yes the RS will always be fancied on track (although it would be interesting to see a diff equipped ED30 compete against one), but I don't go on track so doesn't really bother me :rolleye:. Also, other than Jamsport's own claims of 375bhp from THEIR demo RS. I have yet to see these figures supported. But if some of the ST's so called 300 & 330 conversions are anything to go by then it won't be anywhere near.. :grin:
I know one thing though and that is I wait with anticipation to see a well driven one run at the Pod. Just can't see it's heavy ass getting anywhere near the 12's :P If it does I will be the first to give it respect..
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power isnt everything though. dont dforget when perfomance car did the feature with the new RS and the Revotechnil Leon. the leon absolutley annihalated it in every acceleration increment by a huge amount. the available torque was letting it put identical times to the focus when using one gear ratio higher than the RS which is testement to the setup.
But on the track, with a 60bhp deficit and an a big difference in torque the RS still beat the leon by a second. It might have the diff but its still on std suspension, the leon has KW V3 coilovers, and ARBs fitted.
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Theres a big meet at crail raceway this weekend - Fastford day but theres a little comp goin on where the mk2 rs boys are winding the mk2 s3 boys up saying their 350bhp 400lb rs's will be humping the audi's up the 1/4 i have ran a few times my best being a 13.6sec and yes i have yet to see the 300/330bhp st boys break into the 13's but there is still a little worry there with the rs being a whole new (lardy) ball game!
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Theres a big meet at crail raceway this weekend - Fastford day but theres a little comp goin on where the mk2 rs boys are winding the mk2 s3 boys up saying their 350bhp 400lb rs's will be humping the audi's up the 1/4 i have ran a few times my best being a 13.6sec and yes i have yet to see the 300/330bhp st boys break into the 13's but there is still a little worry there with the rs being a whole new (lardy) ball game!
Good luck lads, you guys are gonna need it, but should still pip those RS's.
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But on the track, with a 60bhp deficit and an a big difference in torque the RS still beat the leon by a second. It might have the diff but its still on std suspension, the leon has KW V3 coilovers, and ARBs fitted.
for a track weapon, no doubt the RS has a newer generation of fancy bits, but on the street where the real day to day usage and comparison is made, there will be no difference large enough to justify the gap in cost.
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Theres a big meet at crail raceway this weekend - Fastford day but theres a little comp goin on where the mk2 rs boys are winding the mk2 s3 boys up saying their 350bhp 400lb rs's will be humping the audi's up the 1/4 i have ran a few times my best being a 13.6sec and yes i have yet to see the 300/330bhp st boys break into the 13's but there is still a little worry there with the rs being a whole new (lardy) ball game!
Ooooh, keep us posted :happy2:
Think we ought to drag Jonnyc back from the USA for this :laugh:
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Theres a big meet at crail raceway this weekend - Fastford day but theres a little comp goin on where the mk2 rs boys are winding the mk2 s3 boys up saying their 350bhp 400lb rs's will be humping the audi's up the 1/4 i have ran a few times my best being a 13.6sec and yes i have yet to see the 300/330bhp st boys break into the 13's but there is still a little worry there with the rs being a whole new (lardy) ball game!
Ooooh, keep us posted :happy2:
Think we ought to drag Jonnyc back from the USA for this :laugh:
4 wheel drive FTW! :happy2:
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Theres a big meet at crail raceway this weekend - Fastford day but theres a little comp goin on where the mk2 rs boys are winding the mk2 s3 boys up saying their 350bhp 400lb rs's will be humping the audi's up the 1/4 i have ran a few times my best being a 13.6sec and yes i have yet to see the 300/330bhp st boys break into the 13's but there is still a little worry there with the rs being a whole new (lardy) ball game!
Ooooh, keep us posted :happy2:
Think we ought to drag Jonnyc back from the USA for this :laugh:
4 wheel drive FTW! :happy2:
oh really? do i need to read into that any further mr impulse buyer?! ;)(
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I actually think it would be more evenly matched by rating a stage 2+ k03 GTI against the std RS. They will be much more closely matched engine wise.
the mountune ST(id say this was the main competitor for a stage 2+ gti) beat the RS in the acceleration tests so id bet the GTI in stage2+ guise could as well.
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Theres a big meet at crail raceway this weekend - Fastford day but theres a little comp goin on where the mk2 rs boys are winding the mk2 s3 boys up saying their 350bhp 400lb rs's will be humping the audi's up the 1/4 i have ran a few times my best being a 13.6sec and yes i have yet to see the 300/330bhp st boys break into the 13's but there is still a little worry there with the rs being a whole new (lardy) ball game!
Ooooh, keep us posted :happy2:
Think we ought to drag Jonnyc back from the USA for this :laugh:
4 wheel drive FTW! :happy2:
oh really? do i need to read into that any further mr impulse buyer?! ;)(
Nope! :innocent:
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think its problem is competition, if you want a fast well built road car you would get the ed30, cupra, s3, if you want track action r26r, if you want a bag of pump an st, oops did i just say that? :signLOL:
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I'm not sure I get the "RS vs ED30" comparison, as far as to suggest you could buy a 3 year old ED30 and spend £x,xxx modding it to beat a standard car. What does that prove?
Think back to what an ED30 cost new, spec it accordingly, adding whatever Recaro CSs were as an option on R32s and then the cost of all the parts and fitting to make an ED30 go, stop and corner - you're WAY over £30k.
1/4 mile action means cock all to me. The fact the standard RS was a second quicker round a track than Revo's Leon means everything. The Leon is at the top of its game power wise on a KO4, suspension, brakes & other mods... the RS still has masses of headroom for improvement.
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I'm not sure I get the "RS vs ED30" comparison, as far as to suggest you could buy a 3 year old ED30 and spend £x,xxx modding it to beat a standard car. What does that prove?
Think back to what an ED30 cost new, spec it accordingly, adding whatever Recaro CSs were as an option on R32s and then the cost of all the parts and fitting to make an ED30 go, stop and corner - you're WAY over £30k.
1/4 mile action means cock all to me. The fact the standard RS was a second quicker round a track than Revo's Leon means everything. The Leon is at the top of its game power wise on a KO4, suspension, brakes & other mods... the RS still has masses of headroom for improvement.
The leon didn't have a quaife diff fitted though. I'd personally like to make a bet that an Ed 30 with uprated springs, revo stage 1, a quaife and an r32 brake upgrade would be faster than a stock RS on a track. :innocent:
So that would be £2.5k of mods on a car that was £22.5k when new.
Seems a good comparison.
Most of all "you don't end up with a Ford!" :laugh:
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1/4 mile action means cock all to me. The fact the standard RS was a second quicker round a track than Revo's Leon means everything. The Leon is at the top of its game power wise on a KO4, suspension, brakes & other mods... the RS still has masses of headroom for improvement.
Because it had no diff... 360bhp through a Leon front wheels when exiting a slow corner in 2nd on standard rubber is going to be pretty useless without a diff. I agree the RS is better set up for the track, but it is also over 2 years newer development wise too. Diffs are becoming more of a common fixture in new hot hatches at the min (albeit a electronic diff in the new Golf R) as the power is rising but not all are having to go with 4wd (namely the RS) as chassis and suspension development has come on no end in the past few years.
I feel it's down to the individual on what he wants more from a motor. I personally prefer to have a car that handles well but rips when coming off a RA, slip road etc and can stick with 95% of the cars I meet on the road, rather than a car that isn't as quick in a straight line, but can take on the Stelvio Pass with ease.. :wink: Where as I know there are many on here who are the complete opposite.
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Theres a big meet at crail raceway this weekend - Fastford day but theres a little comp goin on where the mk2 rs boys are winding the mk2 s3 boys up saying their 350bhp 400lb rs's will be humping the audi's up the 1/4 i have ran a few times my best being a 13.6sec and yes i have yet to see the 300/330bhp st boys break into the 13's but there is still a little worry there with the rs being a whole new (lardy) ball game!
That sounds like a right blast mate.. Love a good old friendly shoot out, nothing better.. Where have the RS boys being winding up the S3 boys, ASN?
I personally think a Stage 2 + S3 would rip the RS a new arse up the strip mate.. Less weight, more power and the added bonus of a 4wd head start if launched properly.. :wink:
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Ahh, I thought the Leon had a diff.
My only point was you've got to compare apples with apples - the only way you're ever going to compare the two is if the ED30 came standard with a diff and it had exactly the same power to weight ratio and torque as the RS. Then you take off your badge head and just see which is best.
Oh, and you forgot £1500 for the Recaros, then xenons.. etc etc - exact same spec, I bet they'd be similar money at least.
It makes for good reading, it's interesting, it's a laugh, but it's as uttery worthless as the RS v R26R comparison too.
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Just in our home town vtec, some good banter and then some not so good banter some right good hatred fuelled grudge matches! :wink:
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Be very interested to see the results mate, so let us know how you boys get on.. :jumping: Come on you TFSI boys :pomppomp: :pomppomp: :pomppomp:
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Here's hopin a certain white s3 comes back with a few blue oval doors :evilgrin: :booty:
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All I can say to this is ask RS09MAT how the ED30 vs RS Focus battle went at the Nurburgring 2 weeks ago..............
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All I can say to this is ask RS09MAT how the ED30 vs RS Focus battle went at the Nurburgring 2 weeks ago..............
It was 'NAT' chief, you know i love to nit-pick lol :wink:
Doesn't change the ass kicking he got though :laugh: :evilgrin:
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So if mine runs rings around yours, Stevey - that means even a working class GTI can beat an RS...
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Round the ring is driver dependant though. Put me in a clio sport and any of my mates in a stage 2 plus ed30 and Id still work them all over the track
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Round the ring is driver dependant though. Put me in a clio sport and any of my mates in a stage 2 plus ed30 and Id still work them all over the track
See, this is the point - all the comparisons so far have faaar too many variables to be of any meaningful use.
If you're going to drive an RS, just empty your brain and take it for what it is as an 'out of the box' car. Drawing comparisons just complicates what should be a simple enjoyment/capability test.
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i think the RS is a very capable car but for me and probably most on here it just isnt that much of a step up (if any), even at stage 2 to justify swapping too imo.
If i was coming from say a derv astra to a hot hatch on the other hand, then you would obviously have to consider the RS along with the ed30/cupra/s3 and you wouldnt have a slightly biased opinion either because anything would be better than an astra :signLOL:.
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So with all the talk of modding on here is anyone coming to the Autometrix trackday at Combe on the 10th of October?
I'll be there giving the car a trip around track...should be able to give the Audi chaps a run for their money!
So much better than 1/4 sprinting in my view :drinking:
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So with all the talk of modding on here is anyone coming to the Autometrix trackday at Combe on the 10th of October?
I'll be there giving the car a trip around track...should be able to give the Audi chaps a run for their money!
So much better than 1/4 sprinting in my view :drinking:
Quite a few of us will be suffering from post Nurburgring coitus interruptus from the previous weekend :laugh:
I'll also be in Leeds at RS tuning on a RR day. :wink:
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So with all the talk of modding on here is anyone coming to the Autometrix trackday at Combe on the 10th of October?
I'll be there giving the car a trip around track...should be able to give the Audi chaps a run for their money!
So much better than 1/4 sprinting in my view :drinking:
Hmm.. Combe's a bloody long way from me and I'm doing Anglesey and Cadwell in the coming weeks. I'll go down as a 'possible'. :happy2: