MK5 Golf GTI
General => Random Chat => Topic started by: golfman on March 04, 2014, 07:10:05 pm
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Why is it that people always want mods done cheap :stupid: :stupid:
i mean they just don't want to commit to buying something and always as soon as you tell them a price they go silent and don't get back in touch :fighting: :fighting:
im not saying i don't like a bargain but i mean come on if you send someone a message to say you are interested in getting something for there car then don't get back in touch its bloody annoying!!!!
the price that you get offered is way better than any dealer would charge so i just don't get it why people always expect to pay £20 or £30 :stupid: :stupid:
People also don't understand how much work is involved in doing these retro fits and yes they can take a while but thats also why the dealers don't do it they just can't price the job up!!!
we add these mods to our cars to make them better and to keep us happy with our pride and joys and especially when its genuine parts you are adding...
what is everyone's view on this
Ps this is not pointing the finger at anyone in particular
scott
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Scott you know the reason mate, the prices of whichever golf you own is falling, so the newer people buying them have probably barely got enough money to run it etc, so buying mods people think cos its older everything is cheap, oh how little they know and will soon learn its German so everything costs a premium.
Steep learning curve for some.
I've come across a few people recently that thought it was really pathetic that only 2 guys on here can program clocks up and moaned how expensive it is, really had to byte my tongue as wanted to let them know how tight and stupid there being, but that's there problem I thought!!
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I agree with you Scott
had a guy with a Scirocco ask me a price to fit a Highline, Cruise, Bluetooth and Mfsw. Gave him a price over a year ago. I didn't hear back from him till a few weeks back, told him that the price had gone up... guess what gone silent :fighting: (btw not anyone on here)
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Without taking sides, I am going to suggest that people who joint this (or other Golf) forums may have come from various car backgrounds. Both French and Japanese cars are very cheap to modify (please don't go into a debate why. We know!) so it comes as a bit of a shock when xenon headlights for a Peugeot cost £150 but up to £500 for a VW.
Also there are many examples of other forums where members gladly help out fellow members for free or very cheap (couple of bear tokens). Understandably if retrofitting VW parts is your day job, you need to charge a reasonable amount to cover costs, etc.
But when I meet up with a few local members (not a group meet) and do some VCDS scans and programming, DSG Resets, help folks with radio installs. I don't expect them to give me £50 for an hour of my time. I help them because I'm an enthusiast(ish) and so are they. I understand that if they use parts/materials then they need to pay for them but there is a line between helping out a fellow forum member and charging exorbitant prices for little work. E.g. quoting £80-100 to do a job that takes less than 2 hours. That is the cost of an independent garage!!
Si-R32, I totally agree on the amount of people that get annoyed because they/you can't do something to help them. VW tools do cost a fair bit of money, especially if your just doing something for a hobby. The fact that more than one guy on here can code in clocks could be celebrated!
Rant over, apologies, it's been a frustrating day at work. And don't get me started on grammar/spelling! :-P
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Without taking sides, I am going to suggest that people who joint this (or other Golf) forums may have come from various car backgrounds. Both French and Japanese cars are very cheap to modify
:surprised: Have you ever owned a Nissan Skyline GTR?? I think maybe not. :laugh:
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I feel a lot of peps don't seem to understand the basic fundamentals people like you offer "service and quality" at all hours!
They need to accept:-
1 Your not a charity and your services need to be paid for,at a fair rate, plus parts,whatever they are.
2 The advice and support installers like yourselves offer will not be duplicated by dealers etc
3 The customers must remember your not their friends or family.
4 They should do the research and see how much their wish list would cost from other sources dealers or independents etc.
Only then will you find your time not being wasted by dreamers.
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I gladly pay the asking price because if you want the mod doing then who else is going to do it not the dealers that's for sure...
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Without taking sides, I am going to suggest that people who joint this (or other Golf) forums may have come from various car backgrounds. Both French and Japanese cars (in the Golf category) are very cheap to modify.
:surprised: Have you ever owned a Nissan Skyline GTR?? I think maybe not. :laugh:
I was basing my comparison on like for like. Civics, Peugeot 306 GTI-6's, etc. Obviously Peugeot have been lacking in a Golf GTI contender for a while.
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3 The customers must remember your not their friends or family.
The customer?! Are you a shop/business? Do you declare tax on what you charge 'the customer'?
Get real mate! Garages/dealers charge £50+ an hour because they are a brand and have overheads to cover. Meeting someone on their/your driveway is not the same thing!!
I do agree that you don't seem to get the same advice/help from dealer/garage staff. But they're not interested in modifying your car (unless your paying). They Re paid to sell/service cars in their garage. Fellow enthusiasts ARE interested in the same car (Golfs/VAG) and so will be keen to help you.
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3 The customers must remember your not their friends or family.
The customer?! Are you a shop/business? Do you declare tax on what you charge 'the customer'?
Get real mate! Garages/dealers charge £50+ an hour because they are a brand and have overheads to cover. Meeting someone on their/your driveway is not the same thing!!
I do agree that you don't seem to get the same advice/help from dealer/garage staff. But they're not interested in modifying your car (unless your paying). They Re paid to sell/service cars in their garage. Fellow enthusiasts ARE interested in the same car (Golfs/VAG) and so will be keen to help you.
I pay tax on my profits so don't asume that it is cash in my back pocket
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I agree with most even tho if they aint doing it full time if there doing a few a hour here and a hour there soon adds up.
And i know for one my time is precious when im not at work so wouldn't want to be doing it all for free.
Ive had some clocks programmed by eddie this week and happily paid the price because its a service and im paying for his gear to do it but more than that the knowledge that he holds.
Im guessing anyone with abit of cash could buy the kit to do it, but its the knowledge to me that is more important knowing it will be done right, and the help he has given me tracking down some clocks and telling me which model i want.
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3 The customers must remember your not their friends or family.
The customer?! Are you a shop/business? Do you declare tax on what you charge 'the customer'?
Get real mate! Garages/dealers charge £50+ an hour because they are a brand and have overheads to cover. Meeting someone on their/your driveway is not the same thing!!
I do agree that you don't seem to get the same advice/help from dealer/garage staff. But they're not interested in modifying your car (unless your paying). They Re paid to sell/service cars in their garage. Fellow enthusiasts ARE interested in the same car (Golfs/VAG) and so will be keen to help you.
I pay tax on my profits so don't asume that it is cash in my back pocket
Eddie-NL I'm aware this is probably your full time job. However you are the only exception (I'm aware of) on this forum.
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Scott you know the reason mate, the prices of whichever golf you own is falling, so the newer people buying them have probably barely got enough money to run it etc, so buying mods people think cos its older everything is cheap, oh how little they know and will soon learn its German so everything costs a premium.
Steep learning curve for some.
I've come across a few people recently that thought it was really pathetic that only 2 guys on here can program clocks up and moaned how expensive it is, really had to byte my tongue as wanted to let them know how tight and stupid there being, but that's there problem I thought!!
Completely agree Si.
As the cars get older, the peeps who can afford them get younger and/or with less disposable income and there in lies the problem.
These VAG cars are NOT cheap to mod (if done probably) and using the skills and knowledge of peeps such as Ed or Scott is a blessing and whatever they charge is cheap at half the price, I know this as I've used Ed for various bits on several occasions and will be doing so again in the future.
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You got pay to play :driver:
That is all
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Yeah your right arris. For Eddie, someone who has gone into business we (members) need to pay the proper price. After all if he is a fully fledged business he will bound to offer a guarantee/warranty on his work.
Test question: If an enthusiast member has carried out some mods to his car (therefore knows how to fit/code them) what price would you say if fair for him to meet up with a newer member, fit some parts (code them if needed)? The work will take less than two hours, require the basic screwdriver/spanner set (provided by either person) and parts will be supplied by the newbie.
All in, he's paying for the member's time and know-how.
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Plus many people on this forum, for example Eddie, will happily provide advice free of charge, without which many people could have bought incorrect items or done things incorrectly. I for one have sent many a question to Ed and always get a helpful answer :happy2:
It does usually end with me spending more money with him though - he just knows his stuff :grin:
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You got pay to play :driver:
That is all
So true...nobody is pressured into modding their car.
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i had an offer on something today from here and had to check that the date wasn't April 1st :grin:
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3 The customers must remember your not their friends or family.
The customer?! Are you a shop/business? Do you declare tax on what you charge 'the customer'?
Get real mate! Garages/dealers charge £50+ an hour because they are a brand and have overheads to cover. Meeting someone on their/your driveway is not the same thing!!
I do agree that you don't seem to get the same advice/help from dealer/garage staff. But they're not interested in modifying your car (unless your paying). They Re paid to sell/service cars in their garage. Fellow enthusiasts ARE interested in the same car (Golfs/VAG) and so will be keen to help you.
You pay for someones skill.
At the end of the day people think things don't cost money.
My normal VCDS rate is £10 per car.. that's plug on, full scan, faults emailed to you, and any other tweaks etc that you want. Road tests are normally £20 and I will log the session and provide a write up eg in cases of overboost, lack of vacuum, stuck VNTs or whatever (mainly TDI cars).
And yet some people are like, well it's only 10 minutes on a laptop can't you do it for free sort of thing?
Well, not really no. My tools cost money, etc.
Yet saying that, most of the time I do things for free as I like to help people out.. if people want to give me a few drink tokens then that's great but if they don't I'm not going to get mad at them for it.
I do part time detailing for friends, mainly in the VW scene, and I charge around £120 for a 2 stage correction, I do believe that I am capable within my own capacity to work as a professional detailer should the opportunity present itself - currently it does not , and with my own work commitments I'm lucky to find time to do the 1 or 2 cars a month that I do currently.
People try to barter you down, and it reaches a point where it's not worth it - in materials that you use, equipment, machinery and not only that but your time.. plus fuel costs if you're travelling.
It's all very well saying, well you don't have the overheads of a unit/garage/workshop but the point being that you're paying the end result and the skill of the person doing whatever, whether it be retrofits, detailing, mechanical work, blowjobs... if you want to take it to a garage or someone else then go ahead!
Most of the time people who ask me for help doing things I will only ask for them to cover fuel, and buy me Pizza. It's very rare I ever make actual money out of people, for friends I don't mind so much, favours and exchanged all the time, but for strangers, they need to appreciate that gratitude doesn't pay a mortgage.
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Fair enough if you've got a lot of spare money to spend on what you want for your car . Nothing wrong with enquiring to see how much something will cost , I actually got a price for fitting a mfsw, highline and stock controls and it was cheaper than I expected ! Shame I've still got too much stuff to buy first .
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3 The customers must remember your not their friends or family.
The customer?! Are you a shop/business? Do you declare tax on what you charge 'the customer'?
Get real mate! Garages/dealers charge £50+ an hour because they are a brand and have overheads to cover. Meeting someone on their/your driveway is not the same thing!!
I do agree that you don't seem to get the same advice/help from dealer/garage staff. But they're not interested in modifying your car (unless your paying). They're paid to sell/service cars in their garage. Fellow enthusiasts ARE interested in the same car (Golfs/VAG) and so will be keen to help you.
You pay for someones skill. Agreed
At the end of the day people think things don't cost money.
My normal VCDS rate is £10 per car... Fair enough, but all I've mentioned is people charging ridiculous prices that's plug on, full scan, faults emailed to you, and any other tweaks etc that you want. Road tests are normally £20 and I will log the session and provide a write up eg in cases of overboost, lack of vacuum, stuck VNTs or whatever (mainly TDI cars).
And yet some people are like, well it's only 10 minutes on a laptop can't you do it for free sort of thing? Some folks are generous and do these sort of things for free!
Well, not really no. My tools cost money, etc. I agree, tools costs money (i.e. Laptop and VCDS) but you bought these to enable yourself to do mods. Helping others and making some money back is a bonus (we'd all like). But you cannot say every member on here bought their equipment with the sole purpose of using it to recoup it's cost. Unless they truly are a business e.g. Eddie-NL
Yet saying that, most of the time I do things for free as I like to help people out.. (:happy2:) if people want to give me a few drink tokens then that's great (this is the level of repayment I (and a lot of others) deem acceptable. I am definitely not advocating anything has to be free.) but if they don't I'm not going to get mad at them for it.
I do part time detailing for friends, mainly in the VW scene, and I charge around £120 for a 2 stage correction, I do believe that I am capable within my own capacity to work as a professional detailer should the opportunity present itself - currently it does not , and with my own work commitments I'm lucky to find time to do the 1 or 2 cars a month that I do currently.
People try to barter you down, and it reaches a point where it's not worth it - in materials that you use, equipment, machinery and not only that but your time.. plus fuel costs if you're travelling.
(I agree with your point above, but that's not anything to do with what I've mentioned so far. :stupid: )
It's all very well saying, well you don't have the overheads of a unit/garage/workshop but the point being that you're paying the end result and the skill of the person doing whatever, whether it be retrofits, detailing, mechanical work, blowjobs... if you want to take it to a garage or someone else then go ahead! Correct, you are paying for their skill, experience, etc, etc. But you shouldn't be paying garage prices for it!!!! If you did take it to a garage you will get a guarantee/warranty, maybe a courtesy car, etc. Which is why you pay garage/dealer prices!! :surprised:
Most of the time people who ask me for help doing things I will only ask for them to cover fuel, and buy me Pizza. It's very rare I ever make actual money out of people, for friends I don't mind so much, favours and exchanged all the time, but for strangers, they need to appreciate that gratitude doesn't pay a mortgage. (Proper jobs pay mortgages, not favours for members/mates)
You come across as the type of person I am describing the typical forum member here to be: into their cars (Golf/VAG), happy to help out, especially advice, part numbers, etc. And willing to practically help someone (do work on their car) for beer/pizza tokens or a reasonable amount (£10/£20 for small things, more for bigger/longer work). And yeah, all of your costs should be covered by the paying person, especially any materials you provide and use. Your prices for a stage 2 detail sound excellent! :happy2:
What I was pointing out above is that some members think it is acceptable to perform a job on their own driveway and charge £50/hour. With no material/fuel costs involved. Not for me mate. Just paying for a few of these mods would be the same money as buying your own VCDS Hex Cable, Laptop and more
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I gladly pay the asking price because if you want the mod doing then who else is going to do it not the dealers that's for sure...
seconded
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I gladly pay the asking price because if you want the mod doing then who else is going to do it not the dealers that's for sure...
seconded
Playing the devil's advocate here...
So if I asked for £200 to fit your CAN Gateway you would both be happy to pay this amount? And come to my house so I can do the work here?
If so, then form an orderly queue cos I am open for business!! :surprised:
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I think how much you charge is how much you value your time at.
Also jay I wish you lived closer so would detail my car :signLOL:
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Scott
Its so easy to pm and nine times out of ten people do not know the work involved.
A good way to filter the real ones I think is to say call you.
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Have to say reading this, I agree with the current mentality of some people wanting mods overall. Cant expect to do supply and fit service and struggle to break even.. no point offering the service in the first place.
Did retrofits in London and the North-East for nearly 4 years before a career curve-ball, but Iv seen this all myself. Having a good knowledge of VAGs therefore, I do a lot of work to my own cars myself but members still offering services are very much a credit to the VAG scene and I myself have tapped into the contacts, parts and knowledge of people like Eddie on many things and cant put a price on this info. Hell, dealers the total opposite of helpful, its like black and white compared to a knowledgable member.
A final word on charges. I feel retrofitters have a right to charge what they wish, especially supply and fit. But buyers have the power of the internet and a bit of research to know how much parts go for and the price to fit etc.. If you dont like the price, dont go for it and look elsewhere but its disrespectful to waste time my reserving parts etc for work and going quiet and then having a rant on prices. People invest a lot of time and money and effort into providing these services to clients and enthusiasts, and recommendations go a long way to show these members know what they are doing and do it well.
Having done retrofits for such a long time thats my view. Rant OVER!! :innocent: !!
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I have experienced this a lot with mountain biking. People will expect second hand parts for nothing.
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I love a bargain but when you put something up for sale with a specific fixed price and people say "Whats your lowest price" my piss instantly boils.
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Having said all that, i do remember a time not long ago when all this stuff got done free of charge at meets and it was polite to offer a twenty which more often than not was refused....
Alternatively "the favour" got exchanged and occasionally cashed in...
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I gladly pay the asking price because if you want the mod doing then who else is going to do it not the dealers that's for sure...
seconded
Playing the devil's advocate here...
So if I asked for £200 to fit your CAN Gateway you would both be happy to pay this amount? And come to my house so I can do the work here?
If so, then form an orderly queue cos I am open for business!! :surprised:
only if yours are made of gold :grin:
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I gladly pay the asking price because if you want the mod doing then who else is going to do it not the dealers that's for sure...
seconded
Playing the devil's advocate here...
So if I asked for £200 to fit your CAN Gateway you would both be happy to pay this amount? And come to my house so I can do the work here?
If so, then form an orderly queue cos I am open for business!! :surprised:
only if yours are made of gold :grin:
Sorry mate, only a quote for fitting. You need to supply the CAN Gateway AND meet me at my house so I can fit it. See my previous points/posts for explanation. Which everyone else seems to fail to answer, directly.
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Having said all that, i do remember a time not long ago when all this stuff got done free of charge at meets and it was polite to offer a twenty which more often than not was refused....
Alternatively "the favour" got exchanged and occasionally cashed in...
My point exactly.
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Dodds, i cba to go through your whole post.
But you say one thing
"Fair enough, but all I've mentioned is people charging ridiculous prices"
at the end of the day people charge what they like and it's whether people use it or not.
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Dodds, i cba to go through your whole post.
But you say one thing
"Fair enough, but all I've mentioned is people charging ridiculous prices"
at the end of the day people charge what they like and it's whether people use it or not.
Second that
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No bother, I couldn't be bothered going through your post either, or highlighting my point so that even the visually impaired can read them! Wasn't getting paid to do it.
My point in brief: people should not come on here moaning, "So many people ask me to do stuff for/help them. But as soon as I mention I take £100 to fit a radio they run away."
Eh, hello. Of course they run away. Scared that that's what everybody charges! Where the friendly spirit, helping others out in your spare time?
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People who do the jobs for anyone should be able to charge what the hell they want!!!
if you don't like the price then don't get the job done and take it to a dealers instead
but don't get in touch with someone only to go silent on them just because you are not happy with the price :stupid:
any jobs i have done for people i have never had one person come back to me with something thats not working correctly,and if they did i would try my damnedest to fix it!!!
its like insurance companies they just make up a price as they go along,one minute they give you a price and then half an hour later the price changes so what is the right price?????
scott
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The spirit of helping each other is seen in plenty of posts on this forum, takes hardly any time to reply and costs nothing.
Should you do a scan or fit a part it is only fair to ask for payment. How much is classed as fair will obviously be open to debate.
As said above if you don't like the price go elsewhere
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so what if you set fire to a car you're charging £100 to do a job to....
"sorry mate"..........
With capability comes culpability, if you want to charge slightly less than the dealers then thats all well and good, in addition consider theres a whole Independent network of non dealer specialists who strictly speaking need the work to feed the kids..
I must say Im a little uncomfy with IT specialists with VAGCOM cables charging decent money and justifying it by saying its less than the dealers and go there if you don't like it...to be honest if I had a mod friendly dealer thats probably what Id do if there was little in it.
That said I remember Ben from Shark buying Vag Commander for about £2.5 k and I thought we was bonkers and I told him, he's doing alright now though of course
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I usually call it a tenner for a scan/code clear or changing code, which i think is fair enough. Ive helped a couple of other people on here retro fitting stuff. I did galaxie500s xenons and didnt charge him, but he bought me the first season of breaking bad :notworthy:
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A bit like when someone goes to get a remap done on there car and a couple of days later the engine or the turbo goes bang!!!!!
do the tuners replace the engine or turbo-no they say it was entirely at your own risk!!!!
the same when someone gets a mod done to there car
scott
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A bit like when someone goes to get a remap done on there car and a couple of days later the engine or the turbo goes bang!!!!!
do the tuners replace the engine or turbo-no they say it was entirely at your own risk!!!!
the same when someone gets a mod done to there car
scott
if i lived nearer you Scott or Ed my car would always be round gettin stuffed fitted :happy2:
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The unwritten rule is
Breaking parts during removal customer pays - breaking on refitting the installers pays.
If a person is going to let someone work on their expensive vehicle they should undertake all the necessary checks to see the installer is competent to undertake the job required,at the price their happy to pay!
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A bit like when someone goes to get a remap done on there car and a couple of days later the engine or the turbo goes bang!!!!!
do the tuners replace the engine or turbo-no they say it was entirely at your own risk!!!!
the same when someone gets a mod done to there car
scott
if i lived nearer you Scott or Ed my car would always be round gettin stuffed fitted :happy2:
Don't know if i could give you a price though Andy i would maybe have to ask if its ok to charge you a certain price first or even better just come down to you to do it free :grin: :grin:
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The unwritten rule is
Breaking parts during removal customer pays - breaking on refitting the installers pays.
If a person is going to let someone work on their expensive vehicle they should undertake all the necessary checks to see the installer is competent to undertake the job required,at the price their happy to pay!
:congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats:
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Thing I'm finding funny about this is most Retro fitters are not asking for the earth just a normal amount for there time and skill, far to many people want everything for free or for peanuts, welcome to the real world, if you want a mod and can't do it yourself be prepared to pay or not get it done, very simple.
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in fairness - thats nothing like it at all....
You're not upping performance when fitting xenons,heated seats, a RNS510, replacing a CM.... technically a main dealer can do it and when these technologies were first brought in they were the only option......so the main dealer "bricks" the car or does wiring damage and immobilises it.
1. Does he
A) tell you to come and get it with a shrug of the shoulders
B) repairs it at his own cost
C) if its really bad claim on his garage insurance
If you want to charge handy money then protect yourself with Public Liability.....if you don't then by definition its an amateur job everybody is wide open and you should charge accordingly.
Everybody in business would be really wealthy if it wasn't for expenses such as rates/lighting/insurance for business use.
If there was a nasty incident when somebody was charging for a (lord knows I hope it never happens) then it would certainly be like chucking a brick in the mill pond thats for sure
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A bit like when someone goes to get a remap done on there car and a couple of days later the engine or the turbo goes bang!!!!!
do the tuners replace the engine or turbo-no they say it was entirely at your own risk!!!!
the same when someone gets a mod done to there car
scott
if i lived nearer you Scott or Ed my car would always be round gettin stuffed fitted :happy2:
Don't know if i could give you a price though Andy i would maybe have to ask if its ok to charge you a certain price first or even better just come down to you to do it free :grin: :grin:
so to put xenon lights in and the self levels is all free fittting after you have spend 6hrs doing it and supplied the tea and sandwichs,when can you do it :signLOL:
Thing I'm finding funny about this is most Retro fitters are not asking for the earth just a normal amount for there time and skill, far to many people want everything for free or for peanuts, welcome to the real world, if you want a mod and can't do it yourself be prepared to pay or not get it done, very simple.
x2
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Thing I'm finding funny about this is most Retro fitters are not asking for the earth just a normal amount for there time and skill, far to many people want everything for free or for peanuts, welcome to the real world, if you want a mod and can't do it yourself be prepared to pay or not get it done, very simple.
Good shout Si totally agree :drinking:
its like if you had a plumber at your house to do a job(homer) and you said i know your name from a forum I'm on and he said yes thats me does that mean he will do the job for free or that you will do him a favour sometime and you drive a lorry for a living(what can you do for him)
scott
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I'm not going to lie, i came from modding a corsa and pretty much everything was relatively cheap. It was very naive of me to think that it would be the same when i got my golf but i do now know that parts and everything else is way more expensive. I can understand why though, and i appreciate why it is. I'd very happily pay the asking price for people services ect.
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Everything is down to what people are happy to pay - not unusual for Cuban cigars to sell for $1.1m but Asda sell cigars at their price.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/01/havana-cigar-festival-cuba-tom-jones
So if your happy to pay "get the work done and enjoy the mod" and remember to thank the installer!
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Thing I'm finding funny about this is most Retro fitters are not asking for the earth just a normal amount for there time and skill, far to many people want everything for free or for peanuts, welcome to the real world, if you want a mod and can't do it yourself be prepared to pay or not get it done, very simple.
Good shout Si totally agree :drinking:
its like if you had a plumber at your house to do a job(homer) and you said i know your name from a forum I'm on and he said yes thats me does that mean he will do the job for free or that you will do him a favour sometime and you drive a lorry for a living(what can you do for him)
scott
If the plumber is at your house - he's probably time served with a van outside he's paying business use insurance on, he needs to pay to be corgi registered, he needs to buy tools and materials and consumables, he needs to do a tax return and probably pay an accountant, he may have premises that need rates/lighting/heating, he needs to pay for public liability insurance....
Not exactly the same than somebody fitting/selling you a convenience module they bought used and cheap on ebay is it........
Now theres some very reputable guys on here.... Im citing Eddie as case in point, theres a knowledge and skill thats been demonstrated many times and he's all over the recommended vendor bit. But for every Eddie theres lots of people who are looking to practise on people who think they know what they're doing but to what degree???????, these people used to be part of a scene who used to offer to do things for free or beer vouchers and pi$$ about with peoples cars at meets and pub car parks, nowadays its have vagcom cable/will travel/will charge whatever that can be got away with because the people who have proper infrastructure and culpability have overheads....
Just my 0.02p apologies if it doesnt tie in with the accepted view......
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Golfman are you a registered business like Eddie-NL?
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I have to admit, as an outsider it is quite strange to see. My last car was a ford, at various stages I've had 2 intercoolers, 3 induction kits, painted engine parts, eibach springs, coilovers, bushes, downpipes, stereos etc fitted for no more than the cost of a round of bacon butties.
To see people charging garage rates of labour is very strange, and for most people its a 'cost vs. value' decision, as much as i'd like highline clocks and VALEO rear lights theres better things to spend £750+ on.
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No bother, I couldn't be bothered going through your post either, or highlighting my point so that even the visually impaired can read them! Wasn't getting paid to do it. [
My point in brief: people should not come on here moaning, "So many people ask me to do stuff for/help them. But as soon as I mention I take £100 to fit a radio they run away."
Eh, hello. Of course they run away. Scared that that's what everybody charges! Where the friendly spirit, helping others out in your spare time?
Personally speaking I have had no spare time at all. Since the 6th of January I've had 2 days (over the collective weekends) to do what I need to do.
I have had today off work... my first day of the year.. guess what, I was doing a detail on a friends car, and arrived at his house (an hours drive away) before I'd even be up for work normally. That's just me personally however.
DaveB is partly right. However as per Rich most people charge about £10 to plug on. Vagcom is NOT hard to use. Anything I do I take coding backups of, you're only ever doing run of the mill stuff, cruise control, etc so you're not going to brick an ECU. I've never found someone who charges more than that on this board at least.
If you want to pay main dealer £100 to enable anti hijack then that's the persons choice. If I didn't vcds i'd rather pay Richard £10 or £20 or even £99 because it's still cheaper...
The problem is when people EXPECT things for free. When in reality people's expectations need to change. Everyones time is money.
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I must say Im a little uncomfy with IT specialists with VAGCOM cables charging decent money and justifying it by saying its less than the dealers and go there if you don't like it...to be honest if I had a mod friendly dealer thats probably what Id do if there was little in it.
My point exactly. Before knowing much about VCDS (and purchasing a cable) members on here, including me, have only dealers and experienced members to turn to.
Now that I have a VCDS Cable and a little experieince/practice my thinking hasn't changed to, "I must recoup the cost of my investment in this equipment, therefore I will charge circa £50/hour or more. That way I won't be out of pocket."
I don't expect to earn a living by doing VCDS/retro-fitting jobs on the side. Sometimes I will do things for free (little things, or something that is very easy or takes little time). Other larger work, I will ask for some money. Probably £10-20 for fitting a radio, £50 for a CAN Gateway, etc.
My point throughout this whole thread is not that people expect thing for free. But some people who can do the work, charge (or quote) really high prices, just to be greedy! :fighting:
I usually call it a tenner for a scan/code clear or changing code, which i think is fair enough. Ive helped a couple of other people on here retro fitting stuff. I did galaxie500s xenons and didnt charge him, but he bought me the first season of breaking bad :notworthy:
This here, is what I'd call reasonable service between members. Not the Xenon's for free (that's a HUGE favour) but to plug your laptop into someone's car, read/clear codes, make back-ups and tweaks. Well done that man, someone charging an honest rate. :happy2: :happy2:
Don't know if i could give you a price though Andy i would maybe have to ask if its ok to charge you a certain price first or even better just come down to you to do it free :grin: :grin:
Don't be an idiot Scott, No one is advocating you slave away on somebody's car for free. Just a reasonable amount that doesn't rival dealer prices! :scared:
I'm not going to lie, i came from modding a corsa and pretty much everything was relatively cheap. It was very naive of me to think that it would be the same when i got my golf but i do now know that parts and everything else is way more expensive. I can understand why though, and i appreciate why it is. I'd very happily pay the asking price for people services ect.
Naive to think that VW parts cost the same as Vauxhall parts, yes. I was the same going to BMW from Peugeot. But should the price of a local member helping you out also increase relative to the price of the car parts? I don't think so. I'd hate to see circumstances where a member on here (well, only some members) was forced into less fortunate finances and moved down to a 'lesser' marque. They would be laughed out of the forum for quoting ridiculously high prices!! :fighting2: :scared:
Thing I'm finding funny about this is most Retro fitters are not asking for the earth just a normal amount for there time and skill, far to many people want everything for free or for peanuts, welcome to the real world, if you want a mod and can't do it yourself be prepared to pay or not get it done, very simple.
That's good to hear Si. I don't think retro-fitters, who charge a reasonable amount, are being bashed in this thread. Only those who expect/quote obscenely high charges. Nor is anyone demanding that someone else do the work for free for them. :confused: :stupid: I agree, things that cost someone time, effort, parts/materials do have to be paid for.
Golfman are you a registered business like Eddie-NL?
Well, are you? Should the taxman know about your lucrative side-business? Will you get a knock on the door from MR HMRC?
:stupid:
I don't think so as no-one on here is horrible enough to do such a thing
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Just to throw my 2p's worth into all of this. I have VCDS and have never charged anyone to scan or code bits on their car.
In some cases I have asked them to donate to the Vulcan to the Sky charity but that is still down to them.
Before anyone starts shouting about me not charging I look at it this way. Back in '06 people did stuff for me for free and when I bought my cable and became able to help folk I decided I would "pay it forward" as people had done for me. Simples really and stops everyone getting upset. :smiley:
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Spread the love hedge! :happy2:
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Absolutely Rich. :love: :happy2:
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Always happy to pay Ed what he asks for. You can't really put a price on his knowledge.
6/7 hour round trip but I still wouldn't take the car anywhere else.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Well, are you? Should the taxman know about your lucrative side-business? Will you get a knock on the door from MR HMRC?
:stupid:
I don't think so as no-one on here is horrible enough to do such a thing
Nope, I don't even own a vcds cable, I wouldn't even know where to plug it in :grin:
My point was that for the guys who do own vcds and are not a registered business an just do it as a hobby to help fellow members out then a £10 or £20 donation or a few beers etc for there time seems fair if they feel they have to charge, if they help out fellow members gratis then it's nice to see the spirit of helping each other out staying alive and this is what makes a great a great community.
It's a shame some vcds cowboys feel the need to charge huge rates, when as you say they have a little IT knowledge and a vcds cable therefore they feels their prices high prices are justified as a slight mark down from dealer prices makes them a great second option in their opinion.
I agree with your points in this thread and hopefully the positive ito come from it is that more people will go to the reputable and knowledgeable diagnostic guys like Eddie Nl whom have years of experience.
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Just to throw my 2p's worth into all of this. I have VCDS and have never charged anyone to scan or code bits on their car.
In some cases I have asked them to donate to the Vulcan to the Sky charity but that is still down to them.
Before anyone starts shouting about me not charging I look at it this way. Back in '06 people did stuff for me for free and when I bought my cable and became able to help folk I decided I would "pay it forward" as people had done for me. Simples really and stops everyone getting upset. :smiley:
Excellent motto Hedge. :notworthy: :notworthy: This is my view on things as well, helping out people who are less clued up, because once upon I was that person (still am for a lot of things). :laugh:
Well, are you? Should the taxman know about your lucrative side-business? Will you get a knock on the door from MR HMRC?
:stupid:
I don't think so as no-one on here is horrible enough to do such a thing
Nope, I don't even own a vcds cable, I wouldn't even know where to plug it in :grin:
My point was that for the guys who do own vcds and are not a registered business an just do it as a hobby to help fellow members out then a £10 or £20 donation or a few beers etc for there time seems fair if they feel they have to charge, if they help out fellow members gratis then it's nice to see the spirit of helping each other out staying alive and this is what makes a great a great community.
It's a shame some vcds cowboys feel the need to charge huge rates, when as you say they have a little IT knowledge and a vcds cable therefore they feels their prices high prices are justified as a slight mark down from dealer prices makes them a great second option in their opinion.
I agree with your points in this thread and hopefully the positive ito come from it is that more people will go to the reputable and knowledgeable diagnostic guys like Eddie Nl whom have years of experience.
Exactly what I said, just you've put it in a better nutshell. :happy2: I definitely don't want to slate Ed, I've had nothing but excellent advice from him. I hope that those who genuinely are gurus/geniuses at this stuff (and charge reasonably) get recognised for it, and those who are cowboys (taking a stab in the dark) and daylight robbers (almost dealer prices for 'mates rates') are kept at bay. :happy2:
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Just to throw my 2p's worth into all of this. I have VCDS and have never charged anyone to scan or code bits on their car.
In some cases I have asked them to donate to the Vulcan to the Sky charity but that is still down to them.
Before anyone starts shouting about me not charging I look at it this way. Back in '06 people did stuff for me for free and when I bought my cable and became able to help folk I decided I would "pay it forward" as people had done for me. Simples really and stops everyone getting upset. :smiley:
Excellent motto Hedge. :notworthy: :notworthy: This is my view on things as well, helping out people who are less clued up, because once upon I was that person (still am for a lot of things). :laugh:
Well, are you? Should the taxman know about your lucrative side-business? Will you get a knock on the door from MR HMRC?
:stupid:
I don't think so as no-one on here is horrible enough to do such a thing
Nope, I don't even own a vcds cable, I wouldn't even know where to plug it in :grin:
My point was that for the guys who do own vcds and are not a registered business an just do it as a hobby to help fellow members out then a £10 or £20 donation or a few beers etc for there time seems fair if they feel they have to charge, if they help out fellow members gratis then it's nice to see the spirit of helping each other out staying alive and this is what makes a great a great community.
It's a shame some vcds cowboys feel the need to charge huge rates, when as you say they have a little IT knowledge and a vcds cable therefore they feels their prices high prices are justified as a slight mark down from dealer prices makes them a great second option in their opinion.
I agree with your points in this thread and hopefully the positive ito come from it is that more people will go to the reputable and knowledgeable diagnostic guys like Eddie Nl whom have years of experience.
Exactly what I said, just you've put it in a better nutshell. :happy2: I definitely don't want to slate Ed, I've had nothing but excellent advice from him. I hope that those who genuinely are gurus/geniuses at this stuff (and charge reasonably) get recognised for it, and those who are cowboys (taking a stab in the dark) and daylight robbers (almost dealer prices for 'mates rates') are kept at bay. :happy2:
:drinking:
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Just to throw my 2p's worth into all of this. I have VCDS and have never charged anyone to scan or code bits on their car.
In some cases I have asked them to donate to the Vulcan to the Sky charity but that is still down to them.
Before anyone starts shouting about me not charging I look at it this way. Back in '06 people did stuff for me for free and when I bought my cable and became able to help folk I decided I would "pay it forward" as people had done for me. Simples really and stops everyone getting upset. :smiley:
+1 If only we had more people who are on the same wavelength, this is exactly the community spirit that forums thrive on.
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I feel like I've short changed myself few times I've done VCDS for people as never charged.
Tho should be owed a few beers :drinking:
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Most of the time people who ask me for help doing things I will only ask for them to cover fuel, and buy me Pizza. It's very rare I ever make actual money out of people, for friends I don't mind so much, favours and exchanged all the time, but for strangers, they need to appreciate that gratitude doesn't pay a mortgage.
Agreed, I think pizza/beer money should always be offered to someone who helps you with your car. Unless it's your full time job, helping a fellow member out should not be paying your mortgage!! :fighting:
Sounds like most people are agreeing to this:
Members can become like mates you met on the internet. So if you become freindly with some of them (locals I presume) then 'mates rates' should be the norm; favours, food/drink or money for pizza/beer.
Here, here!! :party: :drinking:
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Reading the OP the question is... why do people go silent and not commit to buying?
Well, I for one would never get a quote from one person and not shop around (I would hope most of us are the same).
Maybe people have received a price, shopped around and decided to go elsewhere.
some comparisons have been made to dealers, plummers and insurance companies, which i'm not sure is relevant to this thread as all are companies and not "a guy on a driveway" cashing in AND NOT declaring additional earnings to MR HMRC. ka-ching!!!
If your running the retrofitting as a business like Ed, you can expect to be charged a premium. However, I don't find Ed charges ridiculous sums for his installs AND you know he knows his shizzle. lol
I'm actually now wondering who the extortionists are on the forum. :laugh:
End of the day I don't think people should give a price for an install and automatically expect to get the job.
My 2 pennies :happy2:
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I'm with mvb 12 On this, OP said people go quiet... maybe they are just doing a bit of shopping around to see what the work is going to cost them and if they can afford it... I would imagine most people on here do it when buying things, Bikes, Cameras, tyres etc so why not this. Maybe it's just me but I feel like I cant mail some of you good guys on here for mods that I may want doing without feeling like I should say yes straight away ...
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Reading the OP the question is... why do people go silent and not commit to buying?
Well, I for one would never get a quote from one person and not shop around (I would hope most of us are the same).
Maybe people have received a price, shopped around and decided to go elsewhere.
When shopping around anywhere else you choose the option that suits you best (often cheapest). You don't go back to all the companies/shops that didn't get your business and say sorry but I found better/cheaper. People who commit to buying/paying are customers. Prostective buyers are only looking. Simples :smiley:
If your running the retrofitting as a business like Ed, you can expect to be charged a premium. However, I don't find Ed charges ridiculous sums for his installs AND you know he knows his shizzle. lol I think the same about Ed, reasonable prices and very helpful. :happy2:
I'm actually now wondering who the extortionists are on the forum. :laugh: Do you really want names?! I can give you one for a start... :surprised:
End of the day I don't think people should give a price for an install and automatically expect to get the job. Correct, my thoughts too!
My 2 pennies :happy2:
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Your sig is highly amusing. :signLOL:
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You will find that the guys with little knowledge and high prices get found out in the end, but guys like eddie that charge reasonable prices for their undoubted skill will always be busy.
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Think EddieNL's gonna make more money as a sperm donor than making sh1t fit......
Feeling the love...... :notworthy:
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Most of the time people who ask me for help doing things I will only ask for them to cover fuel, and buy me Pizza. It's very rare I ever make actual money out of people, for friends I don't mind so much, favours and exchanged all the time, but for strangers, they need to appreciate that gratitude doesn't pay a mortgage.
Agreed, I think pizza/beer money should always be offered to someone who helps you with your car. Unless it's your full time job, helping a fellow member out should not be paying your mortgage!! :fighting:
Sounds like most people are agreeing to this:
Members can become like mates you met on the internet. So if you become freindly with some of them (locals I presume) then 'mates rates' should be the norm; favours, food/drink or money for pizza/beer.
Here, here!! :party: :drinking:
you miss my point (again).
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I usually call it a tenner for a scan/code clear or changing code, which i think is fair enough. Ive helped a couple of other people on here retro fitting stuff. I did galaxie500s xenons and didnt charge him, but he bought me the first season of breaking bad :notworthy:
10 pounds to clear a code that's gonna pop back up again. I like your business acumen :signLOL:
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I usually call it a tenner for a scan/code clear or changing code, which i think is fair enough. Ive helped a couple of other people on here retro fitting stuff. I did galaxie500s xenons and didnt charge him, but he bought me the first season of breaking bad :notworthy:
10 pounds to clear a code that's gonna pop back up again. I like your business acumen :signLOL:
Thanks.... Time for a quick dip in the 30m heated pool. :wink:
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Mr brown hit the nail on the head, when I used to do the retro fitting I was always told I massively undercharged people? At the end of the day I wasn't a business and I did it to help the guys on the forum. I think I used to take donations of beer money:D but I stopped it all after getting folk always texting and emails pms...I worked nights and was getting up very early to accommodate other peoples needs. My misses was getting on at me all the time so in the end I had to slow it down and just go to doing the satnavs.
Scott and ED do an amazing job has per there recommendation on the forum, I wish people where more in the know of there work and what it involves? I have trouble with my back and shoulder these days so only do things on my own car knowing I can bugger it off at any time and go and have a cuppa and sit on my jacksy :)
Good on Ed for having the balls to go at it full time I wish I'd had the opportunity to do it.
And Scott don't worry about it mate plenty more forumites that will come and use your services but has has been said people do shop around and get quotes all the time just wait for them to come back when they realise the cheapest is not always the best route.
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Darren = Yoda
Eddie = Skywalker
Can't remember how long we took trying to get that bloody passat rear view camera to work in the Rocco Daz! LOL....
PS that's the royal "we" I think I was keeping my hands warm on a mug of tea you'd made....
Hope you're well Mate.
Edit........Always had to chase Daz down the road tucking 20's in his t shirt, always very modest and fair. Alternatively he'd supply and fit for fixed pricing always very reasonable
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:signLOL:
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Darren = Yoda
Eddie = Skywalker
Can't remember how long we took trying to get that bloody passat rear view camera to work in the Rocco Daz! LOL....
PS that's the royal "we" I think I was keeping my hands warm on a mug of tea you'd made....
Hope you're well Mate.
Edit........Always had to chase Daz down the road tucking 20's in his t shirt, always very modest and fair. Alternatively he'd supply and fit for fixed pricing always very reasonable
Good at the moment mate, cheers
I'm sure your very busy all the time but need to pm or email you if that's okay Dave? Just about discs/pads for my focus.
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Call any time Daz
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"I do part time detailing for friends, mainly in the VW scene, and I charge around £120 for a 2 stage correction, I do believe that I am capable within my own capacity to work as a professional detailer should the opportunity present itself - currently it does not , and with my own work commitments I'm lucky to find time to do the 1 or 2 cars a month that I do currently."
£120 for a 2 stage!!! That's bloody cheap! How long would you normally take to do that?
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Two days. You physically can't correct a car (to my standard at least) in one day. :signLOL: :signLOL: :signLOL:
Prices do vary depending on location, and condition of the paint...... but as a rough guideline figure for me staying at someones house an hour drive away doing 2 days work
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Two days. You physically can't correct a car (to my standard at least) in one day. :signLOL: :signLOL: :signLOL:
Prices do vary depending on location, and condition of the paint...... but as a rough guideline figure for me staying at someones house an hour drive away doing 2 days work
Yea I would of said at least 2 days. It makes me laugh when people say they do a 2 stage correction in 5-6 hours :stupid: