MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: lee_plum on March 05, 2014, 07:06:15 am

Title: Water/meth
Post by: lee_plum on March 05, 2014, 07:06:15 am
Hi guys, who's running water and meth will good results? and who would you recommend for tuning this, I am based in London but don't want to travel too far

Cheers
Title: Re: Water/meth
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on March 05, 2014, 07:31:36 am
Hurdy is (or at least was) running it on his R.

Only James was running it on his GTI that I know of. Think he's sold it now.

WMI works with Revo maps but to get the best benefit you should get it mapped properly for the WMI. Niki @ R-Tech has got 400+ BHP out of a K04 with WMI (with the right hardware). Not seen any other tuner get close  :happy2:

It's a bit of a trek out of London, but imagine how much fun the drive home will be  :driver:
Title: Re: Water/meth
Post by: Hurdy on March 05, 2014, 10:28:04 am
I'm running over 500bhp using WMI. The WMI on my car is primarily used to aid cooling and keep the engine clean and so isn't tuned specifically to make more power. On my K04 it made more torque midrange and around 5-10bhp at the top end without specifically tuning for it.

If you tune to get the most power out of WMI then you will need to run it all the time and could have issues when you run out of WM mix.
Title: Re: Water/meth
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on March 05, 2014, 12:27:49 pm
I'm running over 500bhp using WMI. The WMI on my car is primarily used to aid cooling and keep the engine clean and so isn't tuned specifically to make more power. On my K04 it made more torque midrange and around 5-10bhp at the top end without specifically tuning for it.

If you tune to get the most power out of WMI then you will need to run it all the time and could have issues when you run out of WM mix.

Over 500bhp??

have you built the engine now?? Update time John. . . . :drool:
Title: Re: Water/meth
Post by: cuprajake on March 05, 2014, 12:54:00 pm
Badger5 bill runs it on his, using the washer bottle.

I've been tempted myself you know.
Title: Re: Water/meth
Post by: Nodz on March 05, 2014, 12:54:07 pm
Wasn't Geordie running it on his Rocco?
Title: Re: Water/meth
Post by: cuprajake on March 05, 2014, 01:04:53 pm
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=386863&page=3
Title: Re: Water/meth
Post by: lee_plum on March 05, 2014, 01:55:37 pm
I think I would be happy to drive up to Leicester if I was to return with 400bhp, currently got a k04 setup, uprated hpfp, fmic, s3 injectors. Currently enquiring about a k04 hybrid and engine is coming apart next month for head decoke and forged rods and pistons, think 400 bhp will be possible with this? Don't mind running water and meth the whole time
Title: Re: Water/meth
Post by: dan930 on March 05, 2014, 02:24:06 pm
If u don't mind running Wmi all the time then def think about going to rtech
Title: Re: Water/meth
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on March 05, 2014, 04:01:31 pm
To get 400bhp you need the same hardware that James had on his GTI.

As Niki would say "it's all about the flow" - that's air in, air out, fuel in. . . There is no limits to the mapping, it's the hardware that holds up the figures  :happy2:

His build thread is a great read start to finish:

http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,43854.0.html

From being a passenger in this, it's absolutely mental!
Title: Re: Water/meth
Post by: Hurdy on March 05, 2014, 04:15:29 pm
I'm running over 500bhp using WMI. The WMI on my car is primarily used to aid cooling and keep the engine clean and so isn't tuned specifically to make more power. On my K04 it made more torque midrange and around 5-10bhp at the top end without specifically tuning for it.

If you tune to get the most power out of WMI then you will need to run it all the time and could have issues when you run out of WM mix.

Over 500bhp??

have you built the engine now?? Update time John. . . . :drool:

Still stock internals!

465whp=511bhp

(https://v4s2.yimg.com/so/7393/12933718045_079d8bf577_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/119406035@N07/12933718045/)
image (http://www.flickr.com/photos/119406035@N07/12933718045/) by john.hurditch (http://www.flickr.com/people/119406035@N07/), on Flickr

Title: Re: Water/meth
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on March 05, 2014, 04:20:20 pm
 :congrats: :notworthy:
Title: Re: Water/meth
Post by: cuprajake on March 05, 2014, 04:33:16 pm
Hurdy.

What turbo you running. Still spools quickly for the power
Title: Re: Water/meth
Post by: Hurdy on March 05, 2014, 04:36:55 pm
:congrats: :notworthy:

Forged internals come Autumn.....unless it pops before! :scared:

Hurdy.

What turbo you running. Still spools quickly for the power

It is a Motorsport spec HTA 3071R, Turbosmart wastegate, Eboost 2 controller, custom tubular manifold and 3.5" downpipe
Title: Re: Water/meth
Post by: gigolo456 on March 05, 2014, 10:46:29 pm
Hi Guys, thought i'd come 'back to the fold' so-to-speak, as haven't been active on this forum for a while!! Ive been spending too much time AND MONEY on my other Golf passion, you know, the one where you are meant to whack a little ball around some muddy fields, lol!!  :fighting:

Anyway, i have a 05 plate GTi (from new) and had WMi installed by Statllers last March, amongst many other costly things!! I have been very pleased with the results thus far! I have also an R Tech Stage 1.5 (Stage 2 to us lot), so Nick did tune to accept the WMi about a week after i had the kit fitted!! I wont kid you, it aint the cheapest mod in the world, but if like me, you like hard acceleration and plenty of torque, yes, this is the dogs b*llox!! The WMi alone only added perhaps another 20 bhp and torques, but as John (Need for Speed) 'Hurdy' pointed out, it's the area under the curve that came out most interesting!! My GTi now (well last April anyway) came away with about 283bhp and 335 lbs of torque, not bad for a pawltry ko3!!  :congrats:
It isn't the most expensive thing to maintain either, in 11 mths, i've gone through about 30-35 litres of methanol and perhaps slightly less in distilled water, (well that at first but then went for demineralised water as quite a bit cheaper!!) I think John actually brews his own distilled, so even cheaper again!! There is a but here, i've noticed that over the past few mths that my WMi tank isn't going down any where nearly as much as it was doing, but i think this is down to a build up of lime-scale in the nozzle, something i am having replaced in a few weeks, then the fun will start again (and water/methanol reserves dwindling)!! Mix that with the WMi 'farts' coming out of my BCS Powervalve exhaust and many heads will turn, believe me!! :party:
Nick at R Tech claims his map against my WMi kit is built in such a way that it will distinguish if no water/methanol is present and just run off the map, and who am i to argue!! Even though i am clearly not having WM sprayed here there and everywhere in large amounts at the moment, Nick's remap is still bringing a smile to my face each and every day, but yes, can't wait to have a new nozzle fitted!!
Basic forumla is mix Statllers with R Tech, in many different possible combinations and you have something to behold and brag about!!  :evilgrin:

Andrew
Title: Re: Water/meth
Post by: MC71 on March 05, 2014, 11:08:28 pm
mmm interesting!




................goes off so research WMI kits  :nerd:
Title: Re: Water/meth
Post by: vRSAlex on March 05, 2014, 11:22:11 pm
Niki maps in the meth so when the intake temps drop, the ignition advances. When the temp raises then the advanced timing drops off.

I've fitted kits on loads of different cars over the years with good results.
Title: Re: Water/meth
Post by: lee_plum on March 06, 2014, 04:24:31 am
What's the best kit to go for?
Title: Re: Water/meth
Post by: MC71 on March 06, 2014, 09:00:32 am
^^^^ Best ask Hurdy but it looks like Devils Own are the main peeps. As to which kit (and/or extra parts) you'll need, I'm not sure.

~~ Clicky here ~~ (http://www.methanol-injection.co.uk/index.php?cPath=21)

 :happy2:
Title: Re: Water/meth
Post by: gigolo456 on March 06, 2014, 09:35:10 am
Mine is Devils Own, the tank sits nicely in my boot!! I also had a new throttle body pipe, so as to properly accommodate the WMi!! I'm sure John has the same setup, amongst countless other mods!! :popcornsoda:
Title: Re: Water/meth
Post by: vRSAlex on March 06, 2014, 01:25:17 pm
AEM for me.  Great kit.
Title: Re: Water/meth
Post by: Hurdy on March 06, 2014, 03:30:04 pm
Can't fault AEM. Devils own is good too but their progressive controller isn't the best quality. The base controller isn't progressive but is fault free on the DO kit. :happy2:
Title: Re: Water/meth
Post by: gigolo456 on March 06, 2014, 04:02:24 pm
Hi John, hope you're well, I take it I do not have the DO kit??

Andrew
Title: Re: Water/meth
Post by: gigolo456 on March 06, 2014, 04:43:47 pm
Oops, DO means Devils Own no doubt, which of course i have lol!! I meant, will i just have the base controller??

Cheers
Title: Re: Water/meth
Post by: dokez on March 06, 2014, 06:04:09 pm
AEM +1

(Revo) Can run upto timing 7 maybe even 8 without no timing pull with the large nozzle in throttle body. A/F/R all good also.

Will be doing a second nozzle just after the intercooler.

You can upgrade to APR 100 octane map if you have WMI installed  :happy2:
Title: Re: Water/meth
Post by: Hurdy on March 06, 2014, 11:24:22 pm
Oops, DO means Devils Own no doubt, which of course i have lol!! I meant, will i just have the base controller??

Cheers


Steve usually fits the base controller as it is simple and effective. :smiley:
Title: Re: Water/meth
Post by: Scooby mic on March 16, 2014, 11:38:37 am
As above in my post
Why don't you just add it to fuel?
Water meth old hat really isn't it?
15/20% gets better hp and torque
Title: Re: Water/meth
Post by: whitettpet on April 09, 2014, 11:22:05 pm

I’m running devils own kit for over a year now, excellent kit, fitted it myself didn’t take more than half a day to do.
The map is for borderline in terms of advanced timing without water meth literally just before detonation and i use the meth to make sure everything is safe. On a normal ko4 set up i was running 378BHP but I’m rebuilding my engine so i may try for more....

you need a flex fuel sensor to run meth directly to your tank which you can only get so far on a standalone ecu.

The other difference is that Meth benefits us byallowing meth to mix with the water and air in the inlet to proceed to the cylinder, this start the cooling process, however with direct port injection which is what we have the injector will not achieve this as the fuel is pumped in practicly on spark. so directly putting it in the fuel will not get you the same effect in theory.