MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => How to Guides / Troubleshooting => Topic started by: edpower on April 07, 2014, 04:33:07 pm

Title: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: edpower on April 07, 2014, 04:33:07 pm
Hello.
I have a Edition30 GTI with 50.000 miles on it.Engine code BYD
It missfires in idle and when i pull of in first gear.Sometimes it missfires going from first to second gear.
Spark plugs are new less than 2000 miles.
Coil pack changed with Okada ones.Nothing changed, still missfires.

Any idea?

Thanks !
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: Saintsteve on April 07, 2014, 04:59:02 pm
Hello.
I have a Edition30 GTI with 50.000 miles on it.Engine code BYD
It missfires in idle and when i pull of in first gear.Sometimes it missfires going from first to second gear.
Spark plugs are new less than 2000 miles.
Coil pack changed with Okada ones.Nothing changed, still missfires.

Any idea?

Thanks !


Injector  :happy2:
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: edpower on April 07, 2014, 05:04:43 pm
Hello.
I have a Edition30 GTI with 50.000 miles on it.Engine code BYD
It missfires in idle and when i pull of in first gear.Sometimes it missfires going from first to second gear.
Spark plugs are new less than 2000 miles.
Coil pack changed with Okada ones.Nothing changed, still missfires.

Any idea?

Thanks !


Injector  :happy2:

Hello !
It missfires in all cylinders but mostly on second one.
Sometimes throws and error "system too lean"
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on April 07, 2014, 05:37:17 pm
Injector failure on BYD's is getting more common. Could be carbon buildup on the inlet valves as the valves aren't washed by fuel with these engines being direct injection.

If it's more than once cylinder it's more than likely carbon buildup. From what I've been reading, it's quite common for these to miss a little bit on idle
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: Markyed30 on April 07, 2014, 05:47:26 pm
I had multiple cylinder misfires and only resolved it at weekend but was on wot  around 5.5 revs from 3rd gear changed plugs coils and dv and never fixed it I had a boost leak from a pipe going in to the intercooler
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: edpower on April 07, 2014, 06:33:53 pm
Hello.It missfires when idle only and never on wot driving !
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: Markyed30 on April 07, 2014, 06:35:02 pm
Carbon build up?
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: edpower on April 07, 2014, 06:36:42 pm
So i have to remove the valves  and clean ?
Its a big problem ?
What do u guys suggest to do ?
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: Saintsteve on April 07, 2014, 07:29:31 pm
Take the inlet manifold off and have a good look, if the inlets are well caked up, take the injectors out at the same time.get their spray patterns checked, and replace if any are defective.

I've had this problem cured by replacing injector 4, would missfire less the more load that was increased , but would give a feel of an idle speed judder on idle revs.
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: bacillus on April 07, 2014, 08:09:16 pm
Before dismantling anything, get a vcds scan done to see if you have any stored fault codes...
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on April 07, 2014, 08:21:49 pm
Take the inlet manifold off and have a good look, if the inlets are well caked up, take the injectors out at the same time.get their spray patterns checked, and replace if any are defective.

I've had this problem cured by replacing injector 4, would missfire less the more load that was increased , but would give a feel of an idle speed judder on idle revs.

Steve did yours only play up on idle?

I remember TFSI Mike was having a cylinder 3 misfire which got worse and did it while he was driving, until he  replaced the injector.

This carbon build up nuisance has finally been addressed by VW on the mk7, they have put a secondary injector back in the inlet
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on April 07, 2014, 08:24:24 pm
I've noticed mine burbles a bit if I listen to the exhaust note, but doesn't shake the seat much. Even with the engine mount inset in.

I'm pretty sure my old K03 GTI did  exactly the same which I put down to dirty valves as I drove it fairly carefully most of the time. The Ed30 has done 67k miles so dirty valves wouldn't surprise me  :sad1:
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: Saintsteve on April 07, 2014, 09:18:55 pm
I've noticed mine burbles a bit if I listen to the exhaust note, but doesn't shake the seat much. Even with the engine mount inset in.

I'm pretty sure my old K03 GTI did  exactly the same which I put down to dirty valves as I drove it fairly carefully most of the time. The Ed30 has done 67k miles so dirty valves wouldn't surprise me  :sad1:
Yes only on idle. If you live log each cylinder on VCDS you will see which cylinder is doing it. It won't necessarily bring up an error on VCDS.
Cold starting was very lumpy aswell with it's failing injector .Ran fine mid range to top end.
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: edpower on April 07, 2014, 09:25:41 pm
Mine when is dead cold doesnt missfire
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: Saintsteve on April 07, 2014, 09:29:10 pm
Mine when is dead cold doesnt missfire

I would use VCDS then and see if it's showing missfires whilst it's running.
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: Timmc212 on April 07, 2014, 10:44:37 pm
Mines been doing the same only missfires on idle cylinder 3 checked it on vcds and no missfires when driving so
New injector getting fitted Friday
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on April 07, 2014, 11:26:11 pm
Take the inlet manifold off and have a good look, if the inlets are well caked up, take the injectors out at the same time.get their spray patterns checked, and replace if any are defective.

I've had this problem cured by replacing injector 4, would missfire less the more load that was increased , but would give a feel of an idle speed judder on idle revs.

Steve did yours only play up on idle?

I remember TFSI Mike was having a cylinder 3 misfire which got worse and did it while he was driving, until he  replaced the injector.

This carbon build up nuisance has finally been addressed by VW on the mk7, they have put a secondary injector back in the inlet

Mine started as noticeable 'hicuups' on idle/tickover.

Measured on VCDS it would steadily count up on cyl 3.

Got to the point where it would splutter a bit under load.

Then every time under WOT it would be a real bad misfire.

Tried all the usual things. Plugs, coils (switching around didn't move to to different cylinders) had a compression test, new pcv, maf and probably a few bits I've forgot.

Replacing the injector and it was back to full health

Hope you get sorted! Frustrating issue
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on April 07, 2014, 11:27:29 pm
Mines been doing the same only missfires on idle cylinder 3 checked it on vcds and no missfires when driving so
New injector getting fitted Friday

Detection for misfire disabled itself when using the throttle for some reason.
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: Dario on April 08, 2014, 01:18:00 am
Mine when is dead cold doesnt missfire

I would use VCDS then and see if it's showing missfires whilst it's running.

mine did that also ,last year and a half,but at idle with the AC on it never missfired and from cold start to running temp  ,but no other problems ,car ran great

done 30.000 km that way
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: Saintsteve on April 08, 2014, 07:50:00 am
Mine when is dead cold doesnt missfire

I would use VCDS then and see if it's showing missfires whilst it's running.

mine did that also ,last year and a half,but at idle with the AC on it never missfired and from cold start to running temp  ,but no other problems ,car ran great

done 30.000 km that way

Yes mine improved when the AC was on, the idle speed increases by around 50rpm and puts more load on the engine, and used to help the injector behave better..

I also had higher the normal Hydro carbon readings on the exhaust emissions tests on MOT's... Towards 190 PPM , 200 was the fail point on the MOT. Since replacing injector, and chucking various carbon melting potions down the PCV pipe to the inlet manifold, it's now just 23ppm on the last test in Feb.
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on April 08, 2014, 09:04:29 am
Mine when is dead cold doesnt missfire



I would use VCDS then and see if it's showing missfires whilst it's running.

mine did that also ,last year and a half,but at idle with the AC on it never missfired and from cold start to running temp  ,but no other problems ,car ran great

done 30.000 km that way

Yes mine improved when the AC was on, the idle speed increases by around 50rpm and puts more load on the engine, and used to help the injector behave better..

I also had higher the normal Hydro carbon readings on the exhaust emissions tests on MOT's... Towards 190 PPM , 200 was the fail point on the MOT. Since replacing injector, and chucking various carbon melting potions down the PCV pipe to the inlet manifold, it's now just 23ppm on the last test in Feb.

What products and methods where used to help clean you inlet ports Steve?   :happy2:
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: Saintsteve on April 08, 2014, 09:07:07 am
I used Wynns EGT cleaner from Halfords mike :happy2:
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on April 08, 2014, 10:51:26 am
I used Wynns EGT cleaner from Halfords mike :happy2:


I'm going to give this ago!

Does it make much difference - any carbon come out of exhaust?

Gotta be worth a try for a few £'s.

My steed is at Awesome GTI today. I mentioned the idle judder to them and they seem to think all TFSI's do it. The guy on the desk has a Jetta TFSI (k03) and that does it too. They do a valve cleaning process which sounds like some sort of terraclean which they spray into the inlet manifold , but charge £179 for it :surprised:
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: Saintsteve on April 08, 2014, 10:59:46 am
I used Wynns EGT cleaner from Halfords mike :happy2:


I'm going to give this ago!

Does it make much difference - any carbon come out of exhaust?

Gotta be worth a try for a few £'s.

My steed is at Awesome GTI today. I mentioned the idle judder to them and they seem to think all TFSI's do it. The guy on the desk has a Jetta TFSI (k03) and that does it too. They do a valve cleaning process which sounds like some sort of terraclean which they spray into the inlet manifold , but charge £179 for it :surprised:

If they spray it in the inlet , then it's worth doing bud. You could try Wynns spray via the pipe that goes from the PCV to inlet manifold, as long as you have someone to keep revs at 2000rpm whilst you spray it in, or the engine will try and cut out.Perhaps do an Italian tune down the motorway after, and then see if the missfire reduces/ goes.

 :happy2:
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on April 08, 2014, 11:03:27 am
Cool, I'll try the Wynns at the weekend. Had a nice Italian tuneup on the M6 this morning  :evilgrin:

These Ed30's are pretty nippy out of the box. Top of 4th gear goes quite well at motorway speeds 
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: Saintsteve on April 08, 2014, 11:03:52 am
I used Wynns EGT cleaner from Halfords mike :happy2:


I'm going to give this ago!

Does it make much difference - any carbon come out of exhaust?

Gotta be worth a try for a few £'s.

My steed is at Awesome GTI today. I mentioned the idle judder to them and they seem to think all TFSI's do it. The guy on the desk has a Jetta TFSI (k03) and that does it too. They do a valve cleaning process which sounds like some sort of terraclean which they spray into the inlet manifold , but charge £179 for it :surprised:

And yes of course they do because they are all designed to eventually carbon up :signLOL:

Still doesn't make it right  :wink:
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on April 08, 2014, 11:04:49 am
I used Wynns EGT cleaner from Halfords mike :happy2:



Cheers. Notice any difference? I imagine it being quite stubborn?
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: Saintsteve on April 08, 2014, 11:09:52 am
I used Wynns EGT cleaner from Halfords mike :happy2:



Cheers. Notice any difference? I imagine it being quite stubborn?
It reduced the amount of missfires , but didn't clear them all together. Throttle response did appear to improve if I recall mike. I'm sure the issue is carbon over the nozzle or if the nozzle sits in a recess in the cyl head,causing spray pattern malfunction , and after spraying this stuff in, it cleared the missfire notably more , but returned gradually over time with mine.
Had JKM remove injector 4 and all has been spot on since.
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on April 08, 2014, 11:18:41 am
I used Wynns EGT cleaner from Halfords mike :happy2:



Cheers. Notice any difference? I imagine it being quite stubborn?
It reduced the amount of missfires , but didn't clear them all together. Throttle response did appear to improve if I recall mike. I'm sure the issue is carbon over the nozzle or if the nozzle sits in a recess in the cyl head,causing spray pattern malfunction , and after spraying this stuff in, it cleared the missfire notably more , but returned gradually over time with mine.
Had JKM remove injector 4 and all has been spot on since.

Running on 3 injectors then  :laugh: :grin:
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on April 08, 2014, 12:36:05 pm
This looks like the stuff to try. Comes in a kit - fuel treatment (goes in the tank), this cleans out the entire direct injection system and is designed to work with the HPFP, and the (possibly) best bit - Air intake cleaner. I think you just spray this into the PCV hole (as Steve says above) and let it do its thing.

http://www.wynns.co.nz/resources/pis/PIS-10133-Wynns-DirectPetrolInjectionKit.pdf

Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on April 08, 2014, 12:39:08 pm
And there is this stuff http://injectedstore.com/products/injected-engineering-direct-injection-de-carbon-foam

Although its more expensive.

I'll try the Wynns one, any volunteers for this?  :smiley:
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: martziniuk on April 08, 2014, 08:51:16 pm
White spirit through the inlet temp sensor hole works a treat!
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: gingerguild on April 09, 2014, 11:51:35 am
I appear to be having exactly the same issue as the OP.  This thread has helped lots.  Given me a few things to try :)

I took my car to MidlandVW who plugged it in with no misfire reported but it is certainly something you can feel at idle after the car has warmed up a bit, I'm pretty sure I'm not imagining it  :scared:
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on April 09, 2014, 02:26:31 pm
It won't have logged a misfire fault code unless it's very serious. On VCDS you can use the misfire counter tool which logs soft misfires at idle you need a lot in a short period of time to throw up a fault code
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: edpower on April 24, 2014, 06:51:37 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi61.tinypic.com%2Frassqg.jpg&hash=f98280bc1093854df36fb0dccb8d35306db8c709)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi59.tinypic.com%2F2h55nvm.jpg&hash=9f8c46bfa54113bccf14ec8d127355f0420e1af6)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi59.tinypic.com%2Fay9342.jpg&hash=773ce7148fa8260ac2f439fc43e46ada0daf4ecb)
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: Saintsteve on April 24, 2014, 07:23:23 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi61.tinypic.com%2Frassqg.jpg&hash=f98280bc1093854df36fb0dccb8d35306db8c709)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi59.tinypic.com%2F2h55nvm.jpg&hash=9f8c46bfa54113bccf14ec8d127355f0420e1af6)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi59.tinypic.com%2Fay9342.jpg&hash=773ce7148fa8260ac2f439fc43e46ada0daf4ecb)

Did you look at your live missfire count 1st??
Title: Re: Edition30 GTI Missfire :(
Post by: edpower on April 25, 2014, 07:07:41 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi61.tinypic.com%2Frassqg.jpg&hash=f98280bc1093854df36fb0dccb8d35306db8c709)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi59.tinypic.com%2F2h55nvm.jpg&hash=9f8c46bfa54113bccf14ec8d127355f0420e1af6)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi59.tinypic.com%2Fay9342.jpg&hash=773ce7148fa8260ac2f439fc43e46ada0daf4ecb)

Did you look at your live missfire count 1st??

I have them on my polar fis, yes