MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: jamma on April 07, 2014, 07:54:27 pm

Title: Middle brake light
Post by: jamma on April 07, 2014, 07:54:27 pm
Hi all , Mines not working so failed MOT but should it appear as a bulb fault in the dashboard or how would I know? Reason I ask us I spent just under 1000 quid 6 weeks ago having the car rewired by VW so want them to fix this for free as had no idea this wasn't working and I bet it never has since they had car

Cheers
Title: Re: Middle brake light
Post by: bacillus on April 07, 2014, 08:06:03 pm
It's a diy fix if you get the part.
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=121067.0
Title: Re: Middle brake light
Post by: jamma on April 07, 2014, 08:13:32 pm
It's a diy fix if you get the part.
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=121067.0

Cheers for this
Title: Re: Middle brake light
Post by: jamma on April 07, 2014, 08:33:50 pm
If the car is put on diagnostics will it say what's wrong ? I don't want to change this part if it's not broke ?

Will it advise me ?

Cheers
Title: Re: Middle brake light
Post by: L17JDH on April 07, 2014, 09:41:33 pm
The only way a 3rd brake light can fail its mot is if less than 50% is working, so just disconnect it to pass the mot.
Title: Re: Middle brake light
Post by: jonnym on April 07, 2014, 09:45:25 pm
It failed because of the 3rd brake light not working?
Title: Re: Middle brake light
Post by: jamma on April 07, 2014, 10:00:13 pm
You can't just disconnect it if you have a third brake light then it needs to be working if it's not its a fail
Title: Re: Middle brake light
Post by: L17JDH on April 07, 2014, 10:09:33 pm
The third brake light doesn't come in to the mot as the tester can't tell if it's connected or not. As along as you have a n/s brake light and a o/s brake light that's all that matters, the only way a third brake light can fail if it has less than 50% working.
Title: Re: Middle brake light
Post by: jonnym on April 07, 2014, 10:18:07 pm
The third brake light doesn't come in to the mot as the tester can't tell if it's connected or not. As along as you have a n/s brake light and a o/s brake light that's all that matters, the only way a third brake light can fail if it has less than 50% working.

What I was thinking as well. The mandatory lights are working and that's all. Strictly speaking the 3rd is part of the typed approved golf but mandatory lights work shouldn't be an issue. Mine passed without it working.

Easy change anyway, just smash it  :grin:

Title: Re: Middle brake light
Post by: jamma on April 07, 2014, 10:28:45 pm
So are you saying if the third brake light doesn't work at all it's not a fail ?
Title: Re: Middle brake light
Post by: jamma on April 07, 2014, 10:29:59 pm
Mine doesn't work at all but they are saying it has failed because of this ? How can I prove it doesn't need to ?
Title: Re: Middle brake light
Post by: jamma on April 07, 2014, 10:35:00 pm
I just did a search on Google and it's a grey area .
Title: Re: Middle brake light
Post by: L17JDH on April 07, 2014, 10:59:17 pm
I'm an mot tester and that's my understanding of reading the mot test guide.


The third brake light is just an additional brake light, as a tester we don't know it's connected. So if it doesn't work i would pass it. If less than 50% of the light didn't work I would fail it.

At the end of the day it's down to the tester.
Title: Re: Middle brake light
Post by: jamma on April 08, 2014, 09:19:24 am
I'm an mot tester and that's my understanding of reading the mot test guide.


The third brake light is just an additional brake light, as a tester we don't know it's connected. So if it doesn't work i would pass it. If less than 50% of the light didn't work I would fail it.

At the end of the day it's down to the tester.

I showed them your quote and they said ok they will pass it, thanks a lot :-)
Title: Re: Middle brake light
Post by: arris on April 08, 2014, 09:26:20 am
Going to say mine passed last month without it.

Though I replaced it anyways. 15 minute job!
Title: Re: Middle brake light
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on April 08, 2014, 10:08:45 am
All I can say is there is a heck of a lot of bent MOT testers out there.

Quite simply, if a 3rd rear brake light is factory fitted, and forms part of the Type Approval, then it must work, and is a testable MOT item.

A failed third rear brake light also breaches Construction and Use Regulations, and will also void insurance!
Title: Re: Middle brake light
Post by: jonnym on April 08, 2014, 03:19:48 pm
All I can say is there is a heck of a lot of bent MOT testers out there.

Quite simply, if a 3rd rear brake light is factory fitted, and forms part of the Type Approval, then it must work, and is a testable MOT item.

A failed third rear brake light also breaches Construction and Use Regulations, and will also void insurance!

It won't void your insurance!! It is however part of the type approved golf and in theory should be tested. The only mandatory lights are the two - left and right, hence open to a very wide interpretation. But I could t comment on anything else naturally!
Title: Re: Middle brake light
Post by: homesqueeze on April 08, 2014, 06:23:08 pm
Don't know about the M.O.T side of things, but I thought high level brake lights were mandatory on all cars since a certain date. All new cars have had to have them fitted as standard for years now. 
Title: Re: Middle brake light
Post by: jamma on April 08, 2014, 08:40:20 pm
After the MOT was done they took a look look at the connections and within five mins they had fixed it anyway so all lights work now  :signLOL:
Title: Re: Middle brake light
Post by: L17JDH on April 08, 2014, 09:47:38 pm
After the MOT was done they took a look look at the connections and within five mins they had fixed it anyway so all lights work now  :signLOL:
I'm an mot tester and that's my understanding of reading the mot test guide.


The third brake light is just an additional brake light, as a tester we don't know it's connected. So if it doesn't work i would pass it. If less than 50% of the light didn't work I would fail it.

At the end of the day it's down to the tester.

I showed them your quote and they said ok they will pass it, thanks a lot :-)

Glad you got it all sorted now mate  :happy2:
Title: Re: Middle brake light
Post by: jonnym on April 09, 2014, 06:43:46 am
Yay! Worth just keeping it working anyway!!
Title: Re: Middle brake light
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on April 10, 2014, 10:02:05 am
All I can say is there is a heck of a lot of bent MOT testers out there.

Quite simply, if a 3rd rear brake light is factory fitted, and forms part of the Type Approval, then it must work, and is a testable MOT item.

A failed third rear brake light also breaches Construction and Use Regulations, and will also void insurance!

It won't void your insurance!!
Erm, I'm afraid it will.  OK, your own insurance will always pay out on third party damages, but if you were fully comp, you would recieve NO payout.  Virtually all motor insurance small print states that the car must be properly maintained, and kept in a road-worthy legal condition.  Golfs had 3 brakelights, only two working means it hasn't been maintained correctly - so insurance declines payout.  Or another way, you purposely snip the wires to the 3rd brake light - ins co will state you've done an unauthorised or undeclared modification = no payout.


It is however part of the type approved golf and in theory should be tested. The only mandatory lights are the two - left and right, hence open to a very wide interpretation. But I could t comment on anything else naturally!
Mandatory lights are all fitted brake lights - if three are fitted, then three should be tested.
Title: Re: Middle brake light
Post by: jonnym on April 10, 2014, 11:27:50 am
All I can say is there is a heck of a lot of bent MOT testers out there.

Quite simply, if a 3rd rear brake light is factory fitted, and forms part of the Type Approval, then it must work, and is a testable MOT item.

A failed third rear brake light also breaches Construction and Use Regulations, and will also void insurance!

It won't void your insurance!!
Erm, I'm afraid it will.  OK, your own insurance will always pay out on third party damages, but if you were fully comp, you would recieve NO payout.  Virtually all motor insurance small print states that the car must be properly maintained, and kept in a road-worthy legal condition.  Golfs had 3 brakelights, only two working means it hasn't been maintained correctly - so insurance declines payout.  Or another way, you purposely snip the wires to the 3rd brake light - ins co will state you've done an unauthorised or undeclared modification = no payout.


It is however part of the type approved golf and in theory should be tested. The only mandatory lights are the two - left and right, hence open to a very wide interpretation. But I could t comment on anything else naturally!
Mandatory lights are all fitted brake lights - if three are fitted, then three should be tested.

It won't void it in the sense the police will seize your car off you. The policy cancelled at a later stage is probably more appropriate.

Type approval vs legislation argument. The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 covers how many you need and the answer is two. Any more is fine should they comply but it is arguable whether it is an offence to fail to maintain the additional lights. The legislation doesn't make this clear, nor is there case law, so would have to go to court and they would need to consider what parliament intended by this. The spirit of the legislation would say you are correct but I don't think it's as clear cut. Clearly having them working at all times is the best way of avoiding this! Type approval as as said requires three working lights.

Title: Re: Middle brake light
Post by: Jakesangel on April 10, 2014, 01:28:47 pm
Just had my M.O.T this morning and was also informed that my highline middle brake light was not working. It still passed and the guy said that it wasn't a fail as both left and right brake lights were working properly.

Just for the record even though the middle brake light is not operational your insurance WOULD NOT be voided in the event of an accident. I've worked in the industry for over 20years.  :happy2:
Title: Re: Middle brake light
Post by: Tamiyoman on April 11, 2014, 02:45:22 pm
If the person smashing into the back of your car did not see 2 brake lights a 3rd would unlikely have made a difference  :grin: