MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: mtj2k on May 27, 2014, 01:53:43 pm
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Hi all,
Firstly before I get blasted :mad: - i know its not a GTI but its a mk5 and this is the only place where ppl give friendly, helpful advice ;)
I've been getting misfires for a few months now and I've tried so much stuff I'm tempted to just get rid of it for whatever someone will give me. Symptoms are: misfires shown (mainly on cyl 2, but a bit random) between 4000 and 5000 rev range, very jerky accel and EML light flashing. Worse with the remap on but still there without it. It's a MY07 1.4 TSI (140bhp) and I've tried: *swapping coils and spark plugs *2x Archoil AR6400 *New injectors *Compression test shows all cyl. OK
Has anyone got any ideas to what could be causing this??
My local VW specialist now wants to "take the head off to have a look" at the cost of £600-£800 :scared:
If this doesn't get resolved soon - there will be a lot of things on the "For Sale" section.
Thanks all
:happy2:
EDIT: one thing i should note (not sure if this is related or not). When i disconnected the fuel lines from the fuel pump to replace the injectors, i was expecting some high pressure fuel to escape. Hardly any did - just sort of dribbled out.
EDIT: Problem now sorted http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,84284.msg882060.html#msg882060 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,84284.msg882060.html#msg882060)
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Id point to the electrics mate.. Iv heard 1.4tsi with ECU issues and ? wiring also.
Cheaper way would be to swap out the wiring before trying to do the ECU.
The 170 TDI had a recall on injectors and their wiring so its not entirely implausable. They used to have jerky acceleration and misfire readouts.
Hope thats of some help.
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I'd also have a look at the injectors before opening the head.
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Id point to the electrics mate.. Iv heard 1.4tsi with ECU issues and ? wiring also.
Cheaper way would be to swap out the wiring before trying to do the ECU.
The 170 TDI had a recall on injectors and their wiring so its not entirely implausable. They used to have jerky acceleration and misfire readouts.
Hope thats of some help.
Thanks - I'd hoped this wasn't the issue because the wiring looks so complicated to replace. I've mapped and unmapped my ECU about 20+ times, can that cause damage?
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I'd also have a look at the injectors before opening the head.
I just spent this bank holiday weekend replacing all 4 injectors which made no difference :sad1:
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Mapping and unmapping with things like bluefin shouldnt cause this imo particularly if the car was initially fine with the map.
My guess is there is a dodgy connection or some corroded wiring. (does happen with time) VW warrenties dont cover wiring either so maybe a reason why?
it is possible to order certain portions of the engine wiring loom from the dealers and essentially plug and play for the most part.
Thing with this sort of thing is that you need to swap things as a final resort to finding the culprit.
but before you do this: Is the spark plug on cylinder 2 clogged with soot? Are all injectors spraying equal amounts of fuel? ( I know you replaced the injectors, but if one is still jamming no matter if you swap them on cyl 2 then its the injector wiring for example.)
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Really sorry to hear your probs. SO frustrating.
Just a couple of thoughts - you say you swapped the coil packs and plugs. Did you just swap them round (accepted practice to see if the misfire moves to another cylinder, but does not always work) or did you swap all for known good ones ? Might be worth trying as you then definitely eliminate them.
Have you replaced the fuel filter? It solved rough running and misfire on a friends Ford a short while ago. When he cut it open the filter element was quiet dirty - doing its job - but had also come part loose and would block the outlet. Fairly cheap and simple to do I believe.
I doubt the head needs to come off, especially as the compressions are good and the misfire is intermittent. A burnt valve would be constant.
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If you do return to stock I'll take your HIDS from you (shameless :evilgrin:)
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Thanks for everyone's advice - my next stop was the fuel filter - relatively cheap and never replaced AFAIK
I should also note that it only happens at max boost (actual boost reading over 2300mb). This is what's leaning me toward some sort of leak on cyl 2 only at max pressure. Doing a compression test only runs at atmospheric.
@omeydz - can you log specific fuel injection quantities in VCDS? I haven't seen it under "Measuring Blocks"
@OSB - only swapped them around although i might as well order a new set of sparkies
@D_Philli_82 - noted lol watch this space
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Dont think injection quantity can be logged. Maybe the injection rate possibly. Check measuring blocks or control module map it.
Best way to do it visually is to remove the injectors and put into clean plastic bottles of the same size/type. Try starting the car for 10-15 seconds intervals until enough fuel is visible and see if the quantities of fuel expelled are the same.
If one is different swap injectors round to different position and run the test again and see if the problem migrates with a particular injector or just on 1 cylinder.
If its just staying on 1 cylinders injector wiring then question injector wiring.
If its on just 1 injector then injector is faulty.
If changing wiring does not fix it then Id point to the ECU as that is what ultimately is telling injector when to fire and how much. And before replacing ECU, ask VW if there are any ECU updates and software glitch might be an issue. Shouldnt charge you to update software if there is a update.
(Also if fuel filter was clogged, wouldnt misfire happen on any cylinder randomly?)
Good luck man!!!
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For the sake of £50 I've ordered a set of spark plugs and fuel filter.. Will fit tonight and report back :fighting:
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Hope you get it sorted mate
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Good luck mate.
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If they offer a reasonable price I'd suggest just chucking it of to WBAC or similar after removing the mods. The early 1.4 TSI was a great concept but can be somewhat problematic.
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For the sake of £50 I've ordered a set of spark plugs and fuel filter.. Will fit tonight and report back :fighting:
Any news mate?
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Didn't fit the new sparks yet - ECP recommended the wrong plugs so i have to go swap them tomorrow.. :fighting2:
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See if the spark plugs you remove are sooty from rich running and if so which ones.
Also a note on the fuel line pressure. When I changed the fuel filter on my mk6 there wasnt much pressure. I did however pull the fuel pump fuse and let the engine run and then cut out before I started work. Thats the recommended way afaik for fuel system work.
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Does anyone have access to current ETKA? Just been reading on the web that VW have superceded the spark plug number for ones with a smaller gap (0.7 instead of the 0.8 stock)
If you do - my engine is a 1.4 TSI 140bhp 'BMY'
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Best bet to call VW dealers and give your reg.
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Got some NGK PZFR6R's
Will fit tonight :happy2:
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Does anyone have access to current ETKA? Just been reading on the web that VW have superceded the spark plug number for ones with a smaller gap (0.7 instead of the 0.8 stock)
If you do - my engine is a 1.4 TSI 140bhp 'BMY'
A little late, but just for reference - I was able to find 03C905601A for engine codes BLG & BMY.
However, it seems that there is a revised version which has PN 03C905601B.
Keep us updated.
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New plugs fitted - F'all difference! :indifferent:
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Were any of the old plugs sooted up more than the others?
Worth a read too:
http://chrisebnerttec48261.blogspot.co.uk/2010/08/injector-patternsdelivery-volume.html (http://chrisebnerttec48261.blogspot.co.uk/2010/08/injector-patternsdelivery-volume.html)
You need to do the injector test I suggested earlier. I think its pointing to wiring +/- ECU.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fcully%2Fpug306%2FDSCF8548.jpg&hash=60597b14f217fc029cb052736c0fa6405175c783)
afaik injector wiring is straight swap plug and play.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg690.imageshack.us%2Fimg690%2F8784%2Fh23a030.jpg&hash=536573427aa8c24cfa82a55e12c4fbdd8565422b)
About £60 from the dealers according to google.
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@ Omeydz - thanks for the tips but not sure if i can be bothered to strip it again just now.
Weird that i cleared the fault code (0302 - Cyl. 2 misfire) and then i couldn't get it to misfire this morning. As if the fault code was causing it?? :rolleye:
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Hope the misfire stays away!!! Good luck :)
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So could hardly get it to mis over the weekend :happy2:
Not sure if the fuel flush, new injectors, spark plugs or just re-seating the coils as none of them had any immediate improvement!
I reckon it was a sticky valve or lifter
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Good to hear!! :happy2:
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If you have changed the plugs it may have been an incorrectly torqued up old spark plug allowing the compression by; which can cause running issues and misfires.
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Well that was shortly lived :confused:
if anybody has the expertise of interpreting VCDS logs. I did one of 2 WOT runs in 3rd gear today as per APR's misfire spec.
Any help is always appreciated.
http://www.biltonsilver.co.uk/biltonsilver/wp-content/uploads/2012/Run%202%20WOT%203rd%20Gear.xlsx (http://www.biltonsilver.co.uk/biltonsilver/wp-content/uploads/2012/Run%202%20WOT%203rd%20Gear.xlsx)
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Just took a look.
Same numbers for each respective cylinder at each timestamp?
So was the engine not misfiring during your tests? or misfiring by the exact same rates constantly.
(When I had a jammed injector I was watching the measuring blocks for misfire and had kept watching the numbers and my culprit injector threw misfires on that cylinder.)
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The excel spreadsheet is 2 WOT runs with a line break in the middle.
Not sure how VCDS refreshes misfire counts but you can see it goes up with the revs to 42 on the first run and 46 on the second. Both on Cyl 2 with a few on the the others (maybe caused my cyl2!?)
Changed fuel filter this weekend - no change
Plus, very unlikely to be injectors - changed all 4 to new ones last bank holiday
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Is the rail pressure drop causing the misfire or caused by the misfire? :confused:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fmtj2k%2Flights%2FRun2WOT3rdGear_zps99a7dbcd.jpg&hash=475db616580f0092989b2eaa459f94f2efffdbcf)
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Bit beyond my know how now mate.
Seems the fault lies in the wiring +/- ECU Id think.
Seeking expert advice is best if you want sure fire way to rectify. Alex @ AKS would be my first port of call, very very busy man though but he knows his biz!
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So - been in the garage for over a week now. Turns out the timing was "way out" due to the timing chain stretched. Was lucky it didn't cause any serious damage. Garage think its fixed it so should be collecting this avo ;)
Thanks for y'all helping :happy2:
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Really? ?
Stretched timing chain is accompanied by very loud ticking metallic sounds which wont go away and loss in power. Very strange if you didnt get those symptoms. (See rex's thread on here). Make sure all tensioners are also renewed too.
Hope it fixes the problem at long last!!
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If the timing chain has stretched (which is common on these) it needs to be replaced along with the tensioners as above.
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Well.. with the likelihood of me jinxing it - It is fixed! :grin: :grin:
7 months, 3 different garages, new coils, spark plugs, injectors, fuel pump, fuel filter, timing chain and various pressure sensors later
It turns out that the issue was with a 'Inlet Manifold Flap Position Sensor' - around £65....
wtf!? i don't even want to add up how much money I've wasted trying to sort this problem.
BUT for now, its back to happy motoring (and back to modding!) :driver:
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Congrats man! Get back to enjoying, you've had enough worrying!!!
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Well.. with the likelihood of me jinxing it - It is fixed! :grin: :grin:
7 months, 3 different garages, new coils, spark plugs, injectors, fuel pump, fuel filter, timing chain and various pressure sensors later
It turns out that the issue was with a 'Inlet Manifold Flap Position Sensor' - around £65....
wtf!? i don't even want to add up how much money I've wasted trying to sort this problem.
BUT for now, its back to happy motoring (and back to modding!) :driver:
Or well at least its fixed. Can you not sell the old parts you have removed, might be able to claw some money back