MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: jonnyc on October 21, 2009, 09:02:14 pm
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So I think most of us have seen the APR video of the 430WHP APR Stage 3+ car on Youtube..
For those that havn't here you are..
Anyways I thought I would have another look just to see what was going on, maybes get a little comparison against the S3 to gauge what kind of numbers im running currently.. It does look very very quick if you concentrate on the speedo..
I have a video of my car doing a pull through the gears and noticed that it flys through the revs far quicker than the APR car, but the speed is far lower.. Which brought me to the following..
The APR car is doing 60MPH at 4300rpm in 3rd gear.. Just for a comparison, both the ED30 and the S3 are doing 5000rpm, so thats 700rpm, or x amount of MPH that its over reading, and thats only in 3rd..
If you watch the video from the 50 second mark you will notice.. So they do a pull in 3rd / 4th and a little in 5th
At 7000rpm its doing..
3rd gear - 92mph
4th gear - 125mph
And at the 16 second mark hes at..
5th gear - 159MPH
Compared to the S3 that is doing.. (only have figures for 3rd gear)
3rd gear - 80MPH
So thats 12MPH more just in 3rd lol..
So basically the conclusion that I have came to is that either its the car MASSIVELY over-reading or APR have fudged the video.. If its the latter then thats a pretty piss poor way of making a car look faster than it really is.. Although I suppose its taken up until now for someone to notice lol..
Anyways just thought I would point it out and see what anyone else thinks? :confused:
And hopefully someone from APR can explain? :happy2:
Jonny
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I'm subscribed to this thread... :surprised:
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I'm subscribed to this thread... :surprised:
x 2 :popcornsoda:
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Downhill video by chance?
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Maybe they have run it up on a dyno... ?
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mmm interesting...
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Downhill video by chance?
Im not disputing the way it goes through the revs, but its the speedo that im questioning.. Looking forward to the response from APR :smiley:
For example..
5k to 7k in the APR Golf in 3rd gear takes 2.45 seconds.. (recorded from the video)
5k to 7k in the S3 in 3rd gear takes 1.77 seconds..
Time the speed and its a completely different story, if that all makes sense lol..
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I'm subscribed to this thread... :surprised:
Me as well!
Good spot Jonny.
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:popcornsoda: :popcornsoda: anyone got a giant bag spare???
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg1.photographersdirect.com%2Fimg%2F19285%2Fwm%2Fpd989027.jpg&hash=2a49bcbe86e6b73578256a9562555e49657c42e4)
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Might get a speedier reply on Tex Jonny - Although you get several pages of drivel too :evilgrin:
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big wheels , differential ratio/box ratios , or a modified speedo signal ???
apr would have to defend their claims (risking total loss of reputation if found to be dishonest....), so Id be :surprised: if they tried to hoodwink us (although its possible)
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Might get a speedier reply on Tex Jonny - Although you get several pages of drivel too :evilgrin:
Lol, hence the reason I posted on here.. There are TONS of APR bum boys over there too which would have seen it as a personal attack on APR and not seen it for what it is.. A simple question.. Why?
big wheels , differential ratio/box ratios , or a modified speedo signal ???
apr would have to defend their claims (risking total loss of reputation if found to be dishonest....), so Id be :surprised: if they tried to hoodwink us (although its possible)
Thats the reason I have posted, just intrigued more than anything.. :wink: :happy2:
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Most strange. I'm with John_o on this one. Some kind of alteration in the wheels, ratios, speedo would be the most obvious. However, to post it up as a genuine advert for how the car accellerates is just plain stupid if they have altered something to make the vid appear more impressive. :confused:
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Would a simple gear ratio change not explain this? If the car was going through the gears too quickly due to the increased power longer ratio's may have been used?
I might be talking complete rubbish as TBH when it comes to the technical things like this I dont know my arse from my elbow... :ashamed:
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Greetings
Don't forget that the S3/ED30 gearbox has different gear ratios compared to the "standard GTI"! :happy2:
And the speedometer is also not a precise instrument to use for comparison!
As I see it the video is taken while the car is "sitting" on dyno! NO air- or rolling resistans is slowing the car down!
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Greetings
Don't forget that the S3/ED30 gearbox has different gear ratios compared to the "standard GTI"! :happy2:
And the speedometer is also not a precise instrument to use for comparison!
As I see it the video is taken while the car is "sitting" on dyno! NO air- or rolling resistans is slowing the car down!
No matter what the circumstances around a given car is, the speed will always relate to a given rpm, for example 100mph i 4th gear is 4500rpm. No matter isf the car is on dyno or on the road, 100mph in 4th will always be 4500rpm in this specific car.
To change this, the gearing needs to be changed, wheelsize or gearratio in gearbox. :wink:
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Greetings
Don't forget that the S3/ED30 gearbox has different gear ratios compared to the "standard GTI"! :happy2:
And the speedometer is also not a precise instrument to use for comparison!
As I see it the video is taken while the car is "sitting" on dyno! NO air- or rolling resistans is slowing the car down!
Are you sure? Never heard of there wing longer gears in the standard GTI compared to the Ed30 and S3 considering they all have the same part number..
Also, dyno or not the speed will still relate to RPM..
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:popcornsoda:
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do i have permission to just email this thread to apr yet :popcornsoda:
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No matter what the circumstances around a given car is, the speed will always relate to a given rpm, for example 100mph i 4th gear is 4500rpm. No matter isf the car is on dyno or on the road, 100mph in 4th will always be 4500rpm in this specific car.
To change this, the gearing needs to be changed, wheelsize or gearratio in gearbox. :wink:
I was refering to the acceleration rate in the video! :wink:
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Are you sure? Never heard of there wing longer gears in the standard GTI compared to the Ed30 and S3 considering they all have the same part number..
YES!
And they do not share all parts! You can check it yourself by looking in ETKA! :happy2:
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do i have permission to just email this thread to apr yet :popcornsoda:
Id say go for it, we might get bored otherwise.
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do i have permission to just email this thread to apr yet :popcornsoda:
Id say go for it, we might get bored otherwise.
On what basis?
jonnyc is comparing his S3 "gearing" with APR's "standard GTi" gearing! And they are NOT the same!
And the speedometer reading in the GTI is way off from reality! Use an PerformanceBox or any other precise GPS to see how much. You will be surprised how much off it is!
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do i have permission to just email this thread to apr yet :popcornsoda:
Id say go for it, we might get bored otherwise.
On what basis?
jonnyc is comparing his S3 "gearing" with APR's "standard GTi" gearing! And they are NOT the same! :mad:
On the basis that they can tell us all relevant detail and put this thread to bed.
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@ 1FASTMF - it would be good for you to introduce yourself properly as it seams a bit odd you have joined the site just to reply to this thread :happy2:
@ everyone else - please don't use this thread as an chance to try to turn this place into one of the US forums :chicken:
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@ 1FASTMF - it would be good for you to introduce yourself properly as it seams a bit odd you have joined the site just to reply to this thread :happy2:
Sorry, forgot that! :happy2:
And I just replied to this thread before someone embarrased himself by comparing to different gearbox ratios!
It was kindly meant! :drinking:
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@ 1FASTMF - it would be good for you to introduce yourself properly as it seams a bit odd you have joined the site just to reply to this thread :happy2:
Sorry, forgot that! :happy2:
And I just replied to this thread before someone embarrased himself by comparing to different gearbox ratios!
It was kindly meant! :drinking:
Ok explain this then..
Just simply..
A MK5 GTI with DSG box.. Check out the speedo and revs at 12 seconds in.. 5000rpm at 60MPH
A MK5 GTI with Manual box.. Check out the speedo and revs at 7 seconds in (or exactly as he takes 3rd gear) ... Again 5000rpm at 60MPH
Niether are ED30's and AMAZINGLY both are exactly the same as my S3 / ED30 and my 200hp GTI that I used to have.. Which one is the odd one out I wander? lol..
You guessed it..
Check out the original video again, 29 seconds in.. 5000rpm in 3rd gear and 69mph.. I think its pretty simple?
Think your going to have to try again :wink:
Oh and for the record I dont think I was embarrassing myself..
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defo had gearbox lenghened!! 160 in 5th!!!! :signLOL:
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Are the US-spec cars geared differently?
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Are the US-spec cars geared differently?
I think we better wait for 1FASTMF to answer that one :wink:
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slightly OT but i'm curious...
how the heck do u work out the MPH using RPM / gear ratios?
have done a big googling but i'm still confused!
seems to involve tyre diameter and maybe the number 336??
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it is strange how the apr video doesnt start at 0 mph...
maybe the mph needle on the clock has been brought forward a bit ? :evilgrin:
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This should get interesting :popcornsoda:
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:popcornsoda:
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Just tried a 3rd gear pull in my car. The results are as follows
2005 GTI
AXX engine
Manual GVT gearbox
At 60mph = 4500 rpm
At 5000 rpm = 66-67mph
Different again
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Heres mine in 3rd if its any help
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Heres mine in 3rd if its any help
Well yeah, again 5k revs and 60 mph.. :happy2:
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sure thats not 4th coz 100mph in 3rd is a bit mental.
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Heres mine in 3rd if its any help
Well yeah, again 5k revs and 60 mph.. :happy2:
its actually doing 80 mph at 5k man... look again
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sure thats not 4th coz 100mph in 3rd is a bit mental.
good point... more testing tonight :grin:
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I assume at some point I will have to resign myself to the fact that I have to take this ridiculous claim seriously.
For the time being, I will explain how the video was captured and what the build state of the car was during the video and development of the engine.
The car is a 2006 MK5 GTi press car that is an auxiliary chassis for APR Motorsport. The chassis is completely OEM and was one of the first MK5's ever made with an incredibly low VIN that technically doesn't exist. APR MS uses it to dyno test their spare engines. The car has the OEM transmission, suspension, brakes, instruments, interior, etc and the OEM 17" wheels and tires.
Our client in Dubai sent his ecu, keys, ignition cylinder, instrument cluster, wiring harness and central convenience monitor as his race car was EURO spec and we wanted to make sure all would work for him once he received the engine we were sending. Some or most of those bits were swapped into our US Spec chassis for the calibration, video and testing.
The car is being driven on a relatively straight piece of road that has some hills and valleys and would be considered rather "hilly".
The camera is mounted from the sunroof and I believe there is a second person in the car for some of the pulls holding a camera for a different angle that may or may not have been used for the vid.
It was not our intent for other people to measure the time of acceleration or whatever but we assumed people would. We didn't do it ourselves because we don't really care as we have nothing to compare it to and other results are more important to us than the time of acceleration. Performance Box data would have been helpful though and I do that now for most cars when we finish new development.
That being said, this thread is a complete waste of my time and I am not going to fall prey to these baseless attempts to discredit us.
Enjoy YOUR turbo kit Johnny and if you want to gun for us, find us on a track. :P
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Interesting, :popcornsoda:
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its actually doing 80 mph at 5k man... look again
Sorry, my mistake.. BUT!
If you compare 6000 rpm in 4th to the APR car..
Yours is at 97mph at 7 seconds into the video..
The APR car is at 110mph at 34 seconds into the vid..
Still a huge difference..
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Did I hear the sound of a car being crated up for the States...?
:popcornsoda:
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i like it find us on the track comment :laugh: thats funny
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I assume at some point I will have to resign myself to the fact that I have to take this ridiculous claim seriously.
For the time being, I will explain how the video was captured and what the build state of the car was during the video and development of the engine.
The car is a 2006 MK5 GTi press car that is an auxiliary chassis for APR Motorsport. The chassis is completely OEM and was one of the first MK5's ever made with an incredibly low VIN that technically doesn't exist. APR MS uses it to dyno test their spare engines. The car has the OEM transmission, suspension, brakes, instruments, interior, etc and the OEM 17" wheels and tires.
Our client in Dubai sent his ecu, keys, ignition cylinder, instrument cluster, wiring harness and central convenience monitor as his race car was EURO spec and we wanted to make sure all would work for him once he received the engine we were sending. Some or most of those bits were swapped into our US Spec chassis for the calibration, video and testing.
The car is being driven on a relatively straight piece of road that has some hills and valleys and would be considered rather "hilly".
The camera is mounted from the sunroof and I believe there is a second person in the car for some of the pulls holding a camera for a different angle that may or may not have been used for the vid.
It was not our intent for other people to measure the time of acceleration or whatever but we assumed people would. We didn't do it ourselves because we don't really care as we have nothing to compare it to and other results are more important to us than the time of acceleration. Performance Box data would have been helpful though and I do that now for most cars when we finish new development.
That being said, this thread is a complete waste of my time and I am not going to fall prey to this baseless attempts to discredit us.
Enjoy YOUR turbo kit Johnny and if you want to gun for us, find us on a track. :P
Thanks for the response Keith..
If you have a look in any of my posts I think its clear to see that im not trying to discredit, just noticed that disparity in the speedo to rpm and was interested to see what APR had to say about it.. Thats all..
In my eyes you have gone to zero effort to explain it at all.. Instead inferring that its such an insignificant and 'ridiculous claim' that its not worth your time in answering.. Well, if you look through the thread, I can see quite a few people that would probably like some kind of thoughts on it?
Anyways again I would like to make the point that I am in no way trying to discredit APR or what you guys achieve.. Just simply was after some feedback..
And you know that last comment is just silly :happy2:
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come on jonny dont let us down show them the other car :evilgrin:
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come on jonny dont let us down show them the other car :evilgrin:
:party:
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:popcornsoda: :popcornsoda:
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I assume at some point I will have to resign myself to the fact that I have to take this ridiculous claim seriously.
For the time being, I will explain how the video was captured and what the build state of the car was during the video and development of the engine.
The car is a 2006 MK5 GTi press car that is an auxiliary chassis for APR Motorsport. The chassis is completely OEM and was one of the first MK5's ever made with an incredibly low VIN that technically doesn't exist. APR MS uses it to dyno test their spare engines. The car has the OEM transmission, suspension, brakes, instruments, interior, etc and the OEM 17" wheels and tires.
Our client in Dubai sent his ecu, keys, ignition cylinder, instrument cluster, wiring harness and central convenience monitor as his race car was EURO spec and we wanted to make sure all would work for him once he received the engine we were sending. Some or most of those bits were swapped into our US Spec chassis for the calibration, video and testing.
The car is being driven on a relatively straight piece of road that has some hills and valleys and would be considered rather "hilly".
The camera is mounted from the sunroof and I believe there is a second person in the car for some of the pulls holding a camera for a different angle that may or may not have been used for the vid.
It was not our intent for other people to measure the time of acceleration or whatever but we assumed people would. We didn't do it ourselves because we don't really care as we have nothing to compare it to and other results are more important to us than the time of acceleration. Performance Box data would have been helpful though and I do that now for most cars when we finish new development.
That being said, this thread is a complete waste of my time and I am not going to fall prey to this baseless attempts to discredit us.
Enjoy YOUR turbo kit Johnny and if you want to gun for us, find us on a track. :P
Thanks for the response Keith..
If you have a look in any of my posts I think its clear to see that im not trying to discredit, just noticed that disparity in the speedo to rpm and was interested to see what APR had to say about it.. Thats all..
In my eyes you have gone to zero effort to explain it at all.. Instead inferring that its such an insignificant and 'ridiculous claim' that its not worth your time in answering.. Well, if you look through the thread, I can see quite a few people that would probably like some kind of thoughts on it?
Anyways again I would like to make the point that I am in no way trying to discredit APR or what you guys achieve.. Just simply was after some feedback..
And you know that last comment is just silly :happy2:
I gave you all of the information you need to understand how any discrepancy could have occurred.
Only ambulance chasers are interested in the continuance of this thread and only fanboys of other companies or other company's representatives would have put you up to this.
You are wrong in suggesting that we are somehow dishonest.
There is nothing silly about my last comment. S3 Stage 3's are hitting the track all around the world at an increasing rate. Find one, race it. Don't waste my time with your bench racing and video stop watch dyno's.
You really think I am being this arrogant and disinterested if I am not fully confident I can dispel this tasteless and uncouth claim at any point?
I think its cute that some noobs in this industry don't realize how long I've and APR has been around and yes we've seen it all. Don't treat me like we are even remotely capable of what you accuse seeing how we started this whole thing back in '97 to simply avoid this type of b.s. from the companies available at that time. 12 years later our philosophy has worked quite well but lesser inexperienced young kids want to start their companies and mimic our history but try to act like we aren't where we are because of where we've been.
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come on jonny we know the car come on show him :notworthy: the race car please :evilgrin:
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in which case, please get some videos of said car racing another car or something, dont just post a dash board cam video..
also i dont know if you have seen jonnycs car but he has his reasons for pointing out the "stopwatch" style banter
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come on jonny we know the car come on show him :notworthy: the race car please :evilgrin:
tis quite frankly one of the sexiest looking beasts in the world.
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Well I have to say Keith that your attitude with this has put me off using APR.
Jonny asked a simple question and as you stated yourself you are responding in an arrogant and disinterested manor.
No one company is too big to have to answer a perfectly valid question. It just goes to show that some people have a largely over inflated opinion of themselves.
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in which case, please get some videos of said car racing another car or something, dont just post a dash board cam video..
also i dont know if you have seen jonnycs car but he has his reasons for pointing out the "stopwatch" style banter
I didn't start this thread. I didn't post anything.
I've seen what Johnny is doing and I am not impressed. What's your point?
Why isn't it his responsibility to offer some sort of evidence of any videos being faked as opposed to a responsibility on our end to disprove his unwarranted accusations?
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oouch this is getting kinda nasty :signLOL:
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in which case, please get some videos of said car racing another car or something, dont just post a dash board cam video..
also i dont know if you have seen jonnycs car but he has his reasons for pointing out the "stopwatch" style banter
I didn't start this thread. I didn't post anything.
I've seen what Johnny is doing and I am not impressed. What's your point?
Why isn't it his responsibility to offer some sort of evidence of any videos being faked as opposed to a responsibility on our end to disprove his unwarranted accusations?
If you are on here representing APR i would suggest you stop lowering your tone and start listening to people rather than try to make them look silly.
he has provided his "evidence" in the form of accurate measurements and comparisons, i see no counter evidence from you...
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Well I have to say Keith that your attitude with this has put me off using APR.
Jonny asked a simple question and as you stated yourself you are responding in an arrogant and disinterested manor.
No one company is too big to have to answer a perfectly valid question. It just goes to show that some people have a largely over inflated opinion of themselves.
Thanks for the advice.
However, put yourself in my shoes.
The true villian is Johnny for making a baseless and frivolous claim with no evidence to support it.
You may feel he's masked his intent as an "honest question" but his motivations are much more devious than that. Had he intended an "honest question" he would have pm'ed me, emailed us, called us, called APR EU, called Awesome, pm'ed Awesome, etc. He is attempting to make a big Geraldo style expose with NO EVIDENCE and the forum users are supporting him.
I may be arrogant but at least my morals and ethics are in line.
-
I assume at some point I will have to resign myself to the fact that I have to take this ridiculous claim seriously.
For the time being, I will explain how the video was captured and what the build state of the car was during the video and development of the engine.
The car is a 2006 MK5 GTi press car that is an auxiliary chassis for APR Motorsport. The chassis is completely OEM and was one of the first MK5's ever made with an incredibly low VIN that technically doesn't exist. APR MS uses it to dyno test their spare engines. The car has the OEM transmission, suspension, brakes, instruments, interior, etc and the OEM 17" wheels and tires.
Our client in Dubai sent his ecu, keys, ignition cylinder, instrument cluster, wiring harness and central convenience monitor as his race car was EURO spec and we wanted to make sure all would work for him once he received the engine we were sending. Some or most of those bits were swapped into our US Spec chassis for the calibration, video and testing.
The car is being driven on a relatively straight piece of road that has some hills and valleys and would be considered rather "hilly".
The camera is mounted from the sunroof and I believe there is a second person in the car for some of the pulls holding a camera for a different angle that may or may not have been used for the vid.
It was not our intent for other people to measure the time of acceleration or whatever but we assumed people would. We didn't do it ourselves because we don't really care as we have nothing to compare it to and other results are more important to us than the time of acceleration. Performance Box data would have been helpful though and I do that now for most cars when we finish new development.
That being said, this thread is a complete waste of my time and I am not going to fall prey to this baseless attempts to discredit us.
Enjoy YOUR turbo kit Johnny and if you want to gun for us, find us on a track. :P
Thanks for the response Keith..
If you have a look in any of my posts I think its clear to see that im not trying to discredit, just noticed that disparity in the speedo to rpm and was interested to see what APR had to say about it.. Thats all..
In my eyes you have gone to zero effort to explain it at all.. Instead inferring that its such an insignificant and 'ridiculous claim' that its not worth your time in answering.. Well, if you look through the thread, I can see quite a few people that would probably like some kind of thoughts on it?
Anyways again I would like to make the point that I am in no way trying to discredit APR or what you guys achieve.. Just simply was after some feedback..
And you know that last comment is just silly :happy2:
I gave you all of the information you need to understand how any discrepancy could have occurred.
Only ambulance chasers are interested in the continuance of this thread and only fanboys of other companies or other company's representatives would have put you up to this.
You are wrong in suggesting that we are somehow dishonest.
There is nothing silly about my last comment. S3 Stage 3's are hitting the track all around the world at an increasing rate. Find one, race it. Don't waste my time with your bench racing and video stop watch dyno's.
You really think I am being this arrogant and disinterested if I am not fully confident I can dispel this tasteless and uncouth claim at any point?
I think its cute that some noobs in this industry don't realize how long I've and APR has been around and yes we've seen it all. Don't treat me like we are even remotely capable of what you accuse seeing how we started this whole thing back in '97 to simply avoid this type of b.s. from the companies available at that time. 12 years later our philosophy has worked quite well but lesser experienced young kids want to start their companies and mimic our history but try to act like we aren't where we are because of where we've been.
Lol.. No one 'put me up to it' And again im really not trying to 'discredit' anything that APR has done, I have said that already..
Anyways thats me told then! Ok well you obviously dont get what im saying, read each of my posts, im seriously not trying to suggest any of the things that you mentioned.. It just seems your being super sensitive which would indicate that I have hit some what of a sore spot..
I understand that your very proud of what yourself and APR have achieved, and you should be.. APR is a well known company around the world! Just having such an attitude and aggressive reaction like this to simple questions will do you no favors, especially in the UK where the customers are far more likely to buy from someone they 'like'
Ill just forget it, it seriously doesn't mean that much to me to continue.. Im sorry..
Now go get yourself a glass of water :innocent:
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does that mean there wont be a race :sad1:
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Well I have to say Keith that your attitude with this has put me off using APR.
Jonny asked a simple question and as you stated yourself you are responding in an arrogant and disinterested manor.
No one company is too big to have to answer a perfectly valid question. It just goes to show that some people have a largely over inflated opinion of themselves.
Thanks for the advice.
However, put yourself in my shoes.
The true villian is Johnny for making a baseless and frivolous claim with no evidence to support it.
You may feel he's masked his intent as an "honest question" but his motivations are much more devious than that. Had he intended an "honest question" he would have pm'ed me, emailed us, called us, called APR EU, called Awesome, pm'ed Awesome, etc. He is attempting to make a big Geraldo style expose with NO EVIDENCE and the forum users are supporting him.
I may be arrogant but at least my morals and ethics are in line.
Seriously, villain!? :surprised:
You have taken this far too seriously, it doesn't matter to me one bit if this thread / 'expose' is deleted..
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in which case, please get some videos of said car racing another car or something, dont just post a dash board cam video..
also i dont know if you have seen jonnycs car but he has his reasons for pointing out the "stopwatch" style banter
I didn't start this thread. I didn't post anything.
I've seen what Johnny is doing and I am not impressed. What's your point?
Why isn't it his responsibility to offer some sort of evidence of any videos being faked as opposed to a responsibility on our end to disprove his unwarranted accusations?
If you are on here representing APR i would suggest you stop lowering your tone and start listening to people rather than try to make them look silly.
he has provided his "evidence" in the form of accurate measurements and comparisons, i see no counter evidence from you...
The only thing Johnnny has presented is a lack of understanding. There is no evidence provided by him whatsoever regarding that video being faked or manipulated.
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Well I have to say Keith that your attitude with this has put me off using APR.
Jonny asked a simple question and as you stated yourself you are responding in an arrogant and disinterested manor.
No one company is too big to have to answer a perfectly valid question. It just goes to show that some people have a largely over inflated opinion of themselves.
Thanks for the advice.
However, put yourself in my shoes.
The true villian is Johnny for making a baseless and frivolous claim with no evidence to support it.
You may feel he's masked his intent as an "honest question" but his motivations are much more devious than that. Had he intended an "honest question" he would have pm'ed me, emailed us, called us, called APR EU, called Awesome, pm'ed Awesome, etc. He is attempting to make a big Geraldo style expose with NO EVIDENCE and the forum users are supporting him.
I may be arrogant but at least my morals and ethics are in line.
Seriously, villain!? :surprised:
You have taken this far too seriously, it doesn't matter to me one bit if this thread / 'expose' is deleted..
Nope, you don't get off that easily. This thread needs to stay open until Tuesday when I've had the time to find the raw vidz, datalogs and dyno graphs for all to see.
Offer an apology and I will accept graciously. Just next time you should contact us or one of our agents directly.
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Offer an apology and I will accept graciously. Just next time you should contact us or one of our agents directly.
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=8443.msg131295#msg131295
apology ^^
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Nope, you don't get off that easily. This thread needs to stay open until Tuesday when I've had the time to find the raw vidz, datalogs and dyno graphs for all to see.
Offer an apology and I will accept graciously. Just next time you should contact us or one of our agents directly.
wasnt that the whole point of the thread. he wanted to know how you got those figures on the speedo in that gear.
JonnyC is trying to eek as much out of his car as possible, so if your car is doing something better via gear ratios etc im sure he would have been very interested to know.
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so wheres this racing car anyways.
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Offer an apology and I will accept graciously. Just next time you should contact us or one of our agents directly.
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=8443.msg131295#msg131295
apology ^^
Fair enough, apology accepted. Even with the little digs thrown in.
Please stay tuned on Tuesday for the full support of our video's accuracy. I can put this in a new thread or follow it up here. I only ask that thread is completely deleted, not just locked unless I am able to post on it on Tuesday.
Thanks.
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so wheres this racing car anyways.
http://www.flagworld.com/news/?p=24250
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I'm not interested in who is right or wrong here, but I think it was the gear ratios of the car that were in question, not the authenticity of the video itself.
i.e. why is the APR car doing xxxMPH @ xxxxRMP when a Golf/ED30/whatever is doing yyyMPH @ yyyyRPM.
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Nope, you don't get off that easily. This thread needs to stay open until Tuesday when I've had the time to find the raw vidz, datalogs and dyno graphs for all to see.
Offer an apology and I will accept graciously. Just next time you should contact us or one of our agents directly.
wasnt that the whole point of the thread. he wanted to know how you got those figures on the speedo in that gear.
JonnyC is trying to eek as much out of his car as possible, so if your car is doing something better via gear ratios etc im sure he would have been very interested to know.
yeah sure, this part of his first post really made me feel like it was an honest attempt to gain insight or information:
So basically the conclusion that I have came to is that either its the car MASSIVELY over-reading or APR have fudged the video.. If its the latter then thats a pretty piss poor way of making a car look faster than it really is.. Although I suppose its taken up until now for someone to notice lol..
Jonny
:stupid:
Maybe something like:
Did anyone see the rpm's vs. mph on APR Supercopa vid? I wonder if someone from APR would let us know how they are seeing x mph at x rpm when I can only get mine to do x mph at x rpm.
At times I will be one of the most helpful and friendly people on this site. This is not one of them. :fighting:
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so that argument over then, will there be an explanation into how your get more speed at xxxRpm in relationship to our vehicles over here.on tuesday, because that is what was being queried not the output of the car
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Did anyone see the rpm's vs. mph on APR Supercopa vid? I wonder if someone from APR would let us know how they are seeing x mph at x rpm when I can only get mine to do x mph at x rpm.
At times I will be one of the most helpful and friendly people on this site. This is not one of them. :fighting:
in which case..
Did anyone see the rpm's vs. mph on APR Supercopa vid? I wonder if someone from APR would let us know how they are seeing x mph at x rpm when I can only get mine to do x mph at x rpm.
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dont let anyones 'bias' put you off Keith, thats internet forums for you...
most of us are capable of seeing through the nuances that individual members have on here (and I include myself in that :grin:)
what I would say, is that there are many members on here ,
that are genuinely just interested in gaining technical insight into anything TFSI, which in this case includes a large hp car and mph/revs calculations, tommorrow it will be something else ...
:happy2:
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I really think you've missed a very big opportunity here Keith. If you really felt that Jonny was having an intentional dig at you, you had the opportunity to position yourself as "the bigger man" and come back with a reply with evidence and info on where he was "mistaken" and "helped him out" by giving the correct info.
Your attitude towards Jonny and others is IMO totally unacceptable and I beleive will go along way to knocking peoples opinion of APR as a reputable & freindly tuner in th UK.
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Just tried a 3rd gear pull in my car. The results are as follows
2005 GTI
AXX engine
Manual GVT gearbox
At 60mph = 4500 rpm
At 5000 rpm = 66-67mph
Different again
I would like to know why my early GTI does the above as well :grin: :grin:
Do the later GTi and ED30 and S3 run a different gearbox to the very early GTI
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Did anyone see the rpm's vs. mph on APR Supercopa vid? I wonder if someone from APR would let us know how they are seeing x mph at x rpm when I can only get mine to do x mph at x rpm.
At times I will be one of the most helpful and friendly people on this site. This is not one of them. :fighting:
in which case..
Did anyone see the rpm's vs. mph on APR Supercopa vid? I wonder if someone from APR would let us know how they are seeing x mph at x rpm when I can only get mine to do x mph at x rpm.
Thanks for that. You've got me almost feeling helpful. :happy2:
I have my suspicions but before I comment I need to speak with Motorsport and Engineering.
I think the datalogs are going to confirm what I theorize so on Tuesday I'll be able to show better.
Its more than likely going to be something similar as to when our 997T clients ask why we've lowered the rev limit on our ecu upgrades to 6000rpm's.
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Would a simple gear ratio change not explain this? If the car was going through the gears too quickly due to the increased power longer ratio's may have been used?
I might be talking complete rubbish as TBH when it comes to the technical things like this I dont know my arse from my elbow... :ashamed:
This site http://www.venommotorsports.com/library/tirewheelcalculator.asp is very helpful with working out the effects of gear ratios and different tyre sizes.
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do i have permission to just email this thread to apr yet :popcornsoda:
Id say go for it, we might get bored otherwise.
On what basis?
jonnyc is comparing his S3 "gearing" with APR's "standard GTi" gearing! And they are NOT the same!
And the speedometer reading in the GTI is way off from reality! Use an PerformanceBox or any other precise GPS to see how much. You will be surprised how much off it is!
I can't comment on the specific gearing diferences, but I can state that the GTI speedo is wildly out, especially from 90mph upwards
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I really think you've missed a very big opportunity here Keith. If you really felt that Jonny was having an intentional dig at you, you had the opportunity to position yourself as "the bigger man" and come back with a reply with evidence and info on where he was "mistaken" and "helped him out" by giving the correct info.
Your attitude towards Jonny and others is IMO totally unacceptable and I beleive will go along way to knocking peoples opinion of APR as a reputable & freindly tuner in th UK.
I wasn't looking for an opportunity. I am upset that someone thinks they can make such a claim that could potentially have such a negative impact on the lives of multiple individuals around the world without giving benefit of the doubt, due respect or employing tact.
Some of the most active posters on this thread have discussed this topic previous to Johnny's post and were circling like a pack of wild dogs the second it was posted. Please don't think I am naive.
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I really think you've missed a very big opportunity here Keith. If you really felt that Jonny was having an intentional dig at you, you had the opportunity to position yourself as "the bigger man" and come back with a reply with evidence and info on where he was "mistaken" and "helped him out" by giving the correct info.
Your attitude towards Jonny and others is IMO totally unacceptable and I beleive will go along way to knocking peoples opinion of APR as a reputable & freindly tuner in th UK.
I wasn't looking for an opportunity. I am upset that someone thinks they can make such a claim that could potentially have such a negative impact on the lives of multiple individuals around the world without giving benefit of the doubt, due respect or employing tact.
Some of the most active posters on this thread have discussed this topic previous to Johnny's post and were circling like a pack of wild dogs the second it was posted. Please don't think I am naive.
You are correct Keith and i apologize for this, most of them are recent members after being banned from there own forum and they havn't quite grasped that we try and be respectful to all on here. :happy2:
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Edited: as it didn't make sense to man nor beast... :stupid:
Hopefully I've not offended you with my opinions (as that is all they are) and I look forward to your post with the information you've promised :happy2:
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slightly OT but i'm curious...
how the heck do u work out the MPH using RPM / gear ratios?
have done a big googling but i'm still confused!
seems to involve tyre diameter and maybe the number 336??
Try this - increadibly helpful - http://www.venommotorsports.com/library/tirewheelcalculator.asp
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Wow, this really has turned into a witch hunt. I hope this thread wont end up with keith stop visiting us, as quite frankly he has been one of the most useful people on here technical wise.
I say we should all wait till tuesday and let keith explain whats what :happy2:
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Ill look forward to Tuesday then.. Thanks Keith :smiley:
I still don't quite see why you couldn't have waited until then to just answer the question that I originally asked in one post rather than blowing the whole thing out of proportion and accusing me and others along the way of all sorts but c'est la vie!
I guess we'll get there in the end hey! :congrats:
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in which case, please get some videos of said car racing another car or something, dont just post a dash board cam video..
also i dont know if you have seen jonnycs car but he has his reasons for pointing out the "stopwatch" style banter
I didn't start this thread. I didn't post anything.
I've seen what Johnny is doing and I am not impressed. What's your point?
Why isn't it his responsibility to offer some sort of evidence of any videos being faked as opposed to a responsibility on our end to disprove his unwarranted accusations?
Keith, as a 'bystander' to this particular thead (with no 'loyalty' to either JonnyC or yourself) - I just think that this was a genuine 'question'. I certainly don't think Jonny specifically stated that APR had 'faked' anything - but I do accept that this could be unfortunately 'inferred'.
Anyway, all I'm trying to say is that I thought the purpose of this thread was to resolve a genuine query - and not try and pin any kind of blame - so please try and work together in a civilised and constructive manner. :smiley: :drinking: :grouphug:
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Having flicked through this thread I feel that I should voice my opinion, for what it counts. I read the thread early on and it seemed an interesting theory but I just can't get my head around Keiths attitude towards it? Yes I understand that APR want to defend themselves but he seems to have gone about it in a full on, no holds barred way?
As someone who is looking at a remap with an open minded attitude I feel this has killed one of the potential options. Not becasue of the claims but because of the response from APR'S representative. I want to feel that when and if if have a problem I could speak to someone who was helpful and able to deal with it without throwing the teddy out of the cot!
I'm sorry if this causes anyone problems but Its wound me up that someone can be so openly arrogant in a place where potential customers dwell. APR is off the cards for me!
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Having flicked through this thread I feel that I should voice my opinion, for what it counts. I read the thread early on and it seemed an interesting theory but I just can't get my head around Keiths attitude towards it? Yes I understand that APR want to defend themselves but he seems to have gone about it in a full on, no holds barred way?
As someone who is looking at a remap with an open minded attitude I feel this has killed one of the potential options. Not becasue of the claims but because of the response from APR'S representative. I want to feel that when and if if have a problem I could speak to someone who was helpful and able to deal with it without throwing the teddy out of the cot!
I'm sorry if this causes anyone problems but Its wound me up that someone can be so openly arrogant in a place where potential customers dwell. APR is off the cards for me!
Search my name for other posts on this site.
Also, please look at this thread from my perspective.
Also, rest assured that you will more than likely never have the occasion to speak with me as Awesome or any of our other UK dealers will be providing customer service and they do an amazing job. However, if you have a technical question on this board and its brought to my attention, I will more than likely be the one to answer and if you view my other posts I am awfully polite and helpful.
I am not here to sell our products nor am I here to provide customer service. I am here solely to provide insight into VAG performance modifications as an individual who has been working with engineers who develop these cars for many years.
I can understand how my posts on this thread can be considered not PC but I am also not going to be bullied about by these few dissenters.
This whole thread is completely shameful on both ends.
If you do decide to purchase someone else's products besides APR and you need some technical advice, don't hesitate to shoot me a pm or email and I will be more than happy to help even though you aren't an APR client.
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Guys! Please! Enough of the APR bashing on this thread. Jonny asked a question Keith is going to provide an answer next week. Thats it, end of story.
I would like to echo John_o's comments earlier - I really appreciate having Keith on this forum and have learned a lot from the information he has posted. So thank you Keith and please stick around!
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If you do decide to purchase someone else's products besides APR and you need some technical advice, don't hesitate to shoot me a pm or email and I will be more than happy to help even though you aren't an APR client.
Much respect Keith :happy2:
I really can see your point but coming from a customer perspective it does look poor. Almost petty squabbling.
As I said though I respect your opinion and I will not argue with you going on the defensive. Just think its come across a bit, wrong maybe? :innocent:
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Jonny, this isn't the first time that you've posted an 'under-the-belt' comment about APR...!? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fanboy of APR, but you really seem to have it in for them!! People on this forum, and I'm sure other forums too, seem to idolise you and treat everything you say as being like God's (obviously this is not your problem), but look at what its done in this thread...potentially two or three people have said that they would completely rule out using APR in the future. I know that it's up to them to decide and perhaps they have not made that decision from this thread alone but you could have gone about this a different way.
What was the point in this thread?? It was just to gain more public awareness of your dislike for APR and giving people more reason to get on your side! Why not just PM Keith on here...you knew he was on the forum! Then, if his response wasn't satisfactory you could have then perhaps have had a slight argument to make a topic about the subject. Instead, you chose to create a topic, which from the outset has created a bad feeling about APR, and has rubbished them as a company - through the use of your language and phrasing.
Get over your ego that you seem to have, grow up and just get on with whatever you want to do. If you don't approve, believe, or dislike the way that APR go about business then fine, thats completely up to you and you are entitled to your own opinion, but theres no point in creating a topic about them in such a derogatory manner! I understand that you were probably just trying to make the forum public more aware of the situation that you had discovered, and allowing APR to respond publicly so that everyone could see the truth...fair enough, but given your previous comments about APR, it seems like a cowardly way of trying to get other people to dislike APR like you do!
:happy2:
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Jonny, this isn't the first time that you've posted an 'under-the-belt' comment about APR...!? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fanboy of APR, but you really seem to have it in for them!! People on this forum, and I'm sure other forums too, seem to idolise you and treat everything you say as being like God's (obviously this is not your problem), but look at what its done in this thread...potentially two or three people have said that they would completely rule out using APR in the future. I know that it's up to them to decide and perhaps they have not made that decision from this thread alone but you could have gone about this a different way.
What was the point in this thread?? It was just to gain more public awareness of your dislike for APR and giving people more reason to get on your side! Why not just PM Keith on here...you knew he was on the forum! Then, if his response wasn't satisfactory you could have then perhaps have had a slight argument to make a topic about the subject. Instead, you chose to create a topic, which from the outset has created a bad feeling about APR, and has rubbished them as a company - through the use of your language and phrasing.
Get over your ego that you seem to have, grow up and just get on with whatever you want to do. If you don't approve, believe, or dislike the way that APR go about business then fine, thats completely up to you and you are entitled to your own opinion, but theres no point in creating a topic about them in such a derogatory manner! I understand that you were probably just trying to make the forum public more aware of the situation that you had discovered, and allowing APR to respond publicly so that everyone could see the truth...fair enough, but given your previous comments about APR, it seems like a cowardly way of trying to get other people to dislike APR like you do!
:happy2:
Thanks for your little story :smiley: but seriously again, I think your missing the point..
What's 'under-the-belt' about pointing out something that I have noticed, the fact that its an APR car means ZERO! Its 100% up to each individual, yourself included, here on the site to decide what they think for themselves, thats the whole point of a public forum..
Someone raises a point and then others discuss, and make their own minds up based on their own opinions, you take what you want from what you read.. Im hardly Derren Brown bending peoples minds?
I don't see why certain people are seeing this as a personal attack on APR? I pointed it out because it intrigued me more than anything.. Keith has now said that he's going to come back with the answer, which is all I was interested to see in the first place anyways? Its been blown WAY out of proportion..
And how does this post in any way relate to me personally? I think maybe thats another separate issue there. If you have an opinion on me personally, which it seems you do, then feel free to let me know all about it next time you have an opportunity to do so face to face..
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Jonny, this isn't the first time that you've posted an 'under-the-belt' comment about APR...!? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fanboy of APR, but you really seem to have it in for them!! People on this forum, and I'm sure other forums too, seem to idolise you and treat everything you say as being like God's (obviously this is not your problem), but look at what its done in this thread...potentially two or three people have said that they would completely rule out using APR in the future. I know that it's up to them to decide and perhaps they have not made that decision from this thread alone but you could have gone about this a different way.
What was the point in this thread?? It was just to gain more public awareness of your dislike for APR and giving people more reason to get on your side! Why not just PM Keith on here...you knew he was on the forum! Then, if his response wasn't satisfactory you could have then perhaps have had a slight argument to make a topic about the subject. Instead, you chose to create a topic, which from the outset has created a bad feeling about APR, and has rubbished them as a company - through the use of your language and phrasing.
Get over your ego that you seem to have, grow up and just get on with whatever you want to do. If you don't approve, believe, or dislike the way that APR go about business then fine, thats completely up to you and you are entitled to your own opinion, but theres no point in creating a topic about them in such a derogatory manner! I understand that you were probably just trying to make the forum public more aware of the situation that you had discovered, and allowing APR to respond publicly so that everyone could see the truth...fair enough, but given your previous comments about APR, it seems like a cowardly way of trying to get other people to dislike APR like you do!
:happy2:
If you have an opinion on me personally, which it seems you do, then feel free to let me know all about it next time you have an opportunity to do so face to face..
HA!!!
Jog on mate....stop trying to claim innocence, you know exactly why you posted it originally....to discredit APR.
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Mother Mary! Lets boil this down shall we:
Despite trying to back peddle and claim innocence, the wording of the original post and early posts by Johnny clearly indicate that he thought APR were altering the video based on Johnny's "infallible" knowledge of motor engineering.
Now whether that was his intention is clearly open for debate, however the wording leads a lot to be desired if this wasn't the case since although it wasn't specifically stated, it was obvious to be the underlying intention and therefore it certainly contributed to the heated discussion which has ensued!
I think Keith has been well within his rights to protest his case. Forums such as this are powerful marketing tools and when a firm's reputation comes into question it can quickly and easily affect people's opinions regarding said firm.
Although I don't contribute every day, I have been a member since the beginning and always stay ontop of the threads in the forum. Threads such as this only seem to be an excuse for Johnny to show off his knowledge of cars and engine mechanics. You seem to delight in showing off both your own car and knowledge of engine mechanics at every given opportunity in a way which is thoroughly vulgar in an under-hand way. There are plenty of individuals here who know things about car mechanics, as well as driving really nice examples of Golf's and S3's, yet they seem capable of acting without the ego, which is something you seem to lack!
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Jonny, this isn't the first time that you've posted an 'under-the-belt' comment about APR...!? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fanboy of APR, but you really seem to have it in for them!! People on this forum, and I'm sure other forums too, seem to idolise you and treat everything you say as being like God's (obviously this is not your problem), but look at what its done in this thread...potentially two or three people have said that they would completely rule out using APR in the future. I know that it's up to them to decide and perhaps they have not made that decision from this thread alone but you could have gone about this a different way.
What was the point in this thread?? It was just to gain more public awareness of your dislike for APR and giving people more reason to get on your side! Why not just PM Keith on here...you knew he was on the forum! Then, if his response wasn't satisfactory you could have then perhaps have had a slight argument to make a topic about the subject. Instead, you chose to create a topic, which from the outset has created a bad feeling about APR, and has rubbished them as a company - through the use of your language and phrasing.
Get over your ego that you seem to have, grow up and just get on with whatever you want to do. If you don't approve, believe, or dislike the way that APR go about business then fine, thats completely up to you and you are entitled to your own opinion, but theres no point in creating a topic about them in such a derogatory manner! I understand that you were probably just trying to make the forum public more aware of the situation that you had discovered, and allowing APR to respond publicly so that everyone could see the truth...fair enough, but given your previous comments about APR, it seems like a cowardly way of trying to get other people to dislike APR like you do!
:happy2:
I wrote out to reply's this afternoon and ditched both of them after a lot of thought. I agree with you Chris and i think your thoughts on the thread are pretty much how i see it. I found it embarrassing for the forum and certainly not representative of most people on here.
I dont agree with your last paragraph though Chris i think Jonny is very mature for his age and 99% of the time his behavior and posts on here are exemplary and very respectful to all.
Part of the reason why we were hesitant about Keith posting was because we knew that a few threads like this would appear like in the USA, I am sure Keith thought we were strange and not welcoming but we wanted to try and protect the forum if we could.
Every tuner has its fanboys and indeed Jonny has lots, but thats not his fault.
And sure as eggs are eggs people being people are happy to throw mutual respect out of the window and start insults over nothing.
We simply wont allow this forum to turn out like lots of others even if it means making very unpopular choices. :happy2:
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HA!!!
I have no time for personal insults online, there completely pointless..
Despite trying to back peddle and claim innocence, the wording of the original post and early posts by Johnny clearly indicate that he thought APR were altering the video based on Johnny's "infallible" knowledge of motor engineering.
You seem to delight in showing off both your own car and knowledge of engine mechanics at every given opportunity in a way which is thoroughly vulgar in an under-hand way
You hardly need an 'infallible' understanding of 'car knowledge' and 'engine mechanics' to see that there is a disparity in the speedo to rpm in that video.. A pair of eyes would be enough!
And what's vulgar about having an in depth build thread on two cars, 90% of my posts are in them two threads.. If you find them vulgar then don't click on them.. And anyways, isn't that the point of a CAR forum? Share knowledge??
TC im more than happy to stop coming on the site if thats what your saying. The only reason I continued to post was because it was requested that I kept the S3 build up to date on here..
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:popcornsoda: :popcornsoda: anyone got a giant bag spare???
any left :ashamed:
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You must realise that most people aren't as astute as you when it comes to identifying exactly why things are like they are on cars. As far as they are concerned there could be a whole myriad of explanations. To claim that APR are somehow 'faking' the video is ludicrous and nothing other than your own opinion.
Jonny, its not vulgar to have the in-depth build threads themselves, personally I enjoy reading them! ...its the way you promote yourself and go about spreading your knowledge. Like Strat said, theres plently of other people that know about cars, but they seem to go about it in a more tactful way that is not patronising. The thing is, you don't do it in an obvious manner, it is all done subtly, meaning that you keep a lot of people 'loyal' to your threads and opinions, whereas people like us don't seem to fall for it!
My post was most definitley not a personal attack on you, it was merely stating my opinion. If you can't read my post without thinking it was a personal attack then I feel very sorry for you....
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admins....
i think its time to lock this thread till keith wants to post his reply on tuesday.
this is pretty much self defeating now like the postal strike (which is really annoying me)
and i really don't want this forum to become something like Vortex across the pond where tuner bashing is an everyday occurence.
so...... its the weekend, everyone have a chill pill and beer and go out and do some driving in ur GTI! :happy2:
Turrah.
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admins....
i think its time to lock this thread till keith wants to post his reply on tuesday.
this is pretty much self defeating now like the postal strike (which is really annoying me)
and i really don't want this forum to become something like Vortex across the pond where tuner bashing is an everyday occurence.
so...... its the weekend, everyone have a chill pill and beer and go out and do some driving in ur GTI! :happy2:
Turrah.
Lee you can trust me on this one, that will NEVER happen.
If the OP wants it locked then it will be locked.
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admins....
i think its time to lock this thread till keith wants to post his reply on tuesday.
this is pretty much self defeating now like the postal strike (which is really annoying me)
and i really don't want this forum to become something like Vortex across the pond where tuner bashing is an everyday occurence.
so...... its the weekend, everyone have a chill pill and beer and go out and do some driving in ur GTI! :happy2:
Turrah.
Me too, but thats the way I perceived Jonny's post, and found it slightly unfair on APR.
I agree with you Lee, lets wait and see what Keith replies on Tuesday.
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TC im more than happy to stop coming on the site if thats what your saying. The only reason I continued to post was because it was requested that I kept the S3 build up to date on here..
My point wasn't very clear Jonny its not you i was eluding to i dont agree at all with Strats comments, you are always helpful to our members and i have never noticed once you being condescending or full of yourself about what knowledge you have.
My point is about the tone of threads and were they end up not his particular one.
I believe this Forum stands above most because most of the posting is mature and respectful, i am often amazed at how many young people we have on here like yourself and Chris who are very mature for there age.
But a few of us have noticed that recently the Mk 5 section has gone down hill a bit we are not getting our usual responses to posts and it seems to be spreading. :booty:
My reference to making unpopular decision's was not pointed at any particular person or company what i meant was we work bloody hard to create a nice atmosphere in here and we will do are utmost to keep it just like that whatever it takes. :happy2:
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You must realise that most people aren't as astute as you when it comes to identifying exactly why things are like they are on cars. As far as they are concerned there could be a whole myriad of explanations. To claim that APR are somehow 'faking' the video is ludicrous and nothing other than your own opinion.
Jonny, its not vulgar to have the in-depth build threads themselves, its the way you promote yourself and go about spreading your knowledge. Like Strat said, theres plently of other people that know about cars, but they seem to go about it in a more tactful way that is not patronising. The thing is, you don't do it in an obvious manner, it is all done subtly, meaning that you keep a lot of people 'loyal' to your threads and opinions, whereas people like us don't seem to fall for it!
My post was most definitley not a personal attack on you, it was merely stating my opinion. If you can't read my post without thinking it was a personal attack then I feel very sorry for you....
Ok this is what I said (really wishing I hadn't bothered now)
So basically the conclusion that I have came to is that either its the car MASSIVELY over-reading or APR have fudged the video..
I don't think there is anything wrong with what I have said but obviously there is, so I should have worded it differently..
I apologize if all of my posts come across like I have some kind of ulterior motive.. But think about it, what good would that do me personally? None, so why would I bother, I wouldn't..
I was only referring to when you suggested that I should get over my ego and grow up, that seemed pretty much aimed at me? ha..
I tell you what, ill buy a APR stage 3 kit and we'll call it quits? :wink:
I say lock it and wait for Kieth to put an end to this madness :rolleye:
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Thread locked, please use the PM function if you feel the need to add anything further on this subject until Keith is ready to post his findings.